CTD in menus and sometimes at cell transitions

[cossayos]

I have this issue since the first DLCs and patches started arriving. When the game first came out it ran entirely stable on my machine. It happens with a vanilla setup as well as a modded game, so I don't think that any mod or a combination of mods is responsible.

 

So the issue is, spending some time, either in the workshop, trading or options window may lead to a CTD. Usually a lockup happens when scrolling through the items. Also I sometimes keep crashing at cell transitions. Game freezes and after a few seconds it's back to desktop. For some reason, Red Rocket is a crash heavy location when going or fast travelling there.

 

One thing I noticed, if I know where the cell transition is and I wait for one or two seconds before transitioning, it usually works. So, without being an expert, it seems to be a cell load issue.

[VonHelton]

2 minutes ago, cossayos said:

I have this issue since the first DLCs and patches started arriving. When the game first came out it ran entirely stable on my machine. It happens with a vanilla setup as well as a modded game, so I don't think that any mod or a combination of mods is responsible.

 

So the issue is, spending some time, either in the workshop, trading or options window may lead to a CTD. Usually a lockup happens when scrolling through the items. Also I sometimes keep crashing at cell transitions. Game freezes and after a few seconds it's back to desktop. For some reason, Red Rocket is a crash heavy location when going or fast travelling there.

Is this BEFORE the Bethesda CC Addons, or after? Some people claim that the CC Addons are the root cause of the problem.

 

?

 

 

 

[cossayos]

It got to a state of being unplayable after the last CC update. Crashing every ten seconds or so, even with a vanilla game. I uninstalled and reinstalled the game, taking great care to manually remove even the last remnant of my previous setup. It even crashed my whole computer on times, locking up the USB support, so that a hard reboot was in order. The only game (out of more than 60) that causes these kinds of problems. I did a hardware check nonetheless, but everything's in good working order, as I expected, since FO4 is the only game causing large scale issues.

 

The solution to make it playable again, was using windowed borderless. But I can't blame the CTDs entirely on the latest patches. As I said, they started to happen once Bethesda started patching back in late 2015.

[VonHelton]

5 hours ago, cossayos said:

It got to a state of being unplayable after the last CC update. Crashing every ten seconds or so, even with a vanilla game. I uninstalled and reinstalled the game, taking great care to manually remove even the last remnant of my previous setup. It even crashed my whole computer on times, locking up the USB support, so that a hard reboot was in order. The only game (out of more than 60) that causes these kinds of problems. I did a hardware check nonetheless, but everything's in good working order, as I expected, since FO4 is the only game causing large scale issues.

 

The solution to make it playable again, was using windowed borderless. But I can't blame the CTDs entirely on the latest patches. As I said, they started to happen once Bethesda started patching back in late 2015.

Ok, well.........

 

I, and thousands like me, can run into buggs of various types every now & again, but yours sounds like something else.

 

For example, I'm running the latest CC version of the game with no CTD's of any kind.

 

?

 

 

 

[Di3sIrae]

Hell, that's bad, cossayos.

 

I guess FO4 is not the most heavy game you're playing in your computer, and you have good specs, right? Because FO4 is not that well optimized and low RAM may cause this issues, i guess. Or maybe other softwares.
You can try to run BethIni on absolutely vanilla inis, to be sure nothing is changing them for the worst, and run F4SE with ENBoost. It would be interesting to test this setting:

[MEMORY]
ForceVideoMemorySize= (test with true and false)
VideoMemorySizeMb= (set first using the info here, then you can test also using only your VRAM size, or 4096... Again, test).

 

Also, afaik Fullscreen makes the computer dedicate more resources to the game, while borderless not. Interesting to test everything with both settings. It's something with windows.

 

And one main rule: open task manager and finish every program you're not using now. As playing offline, antivirus included. Just close "all" applications that are not from windows. Of course here "all" is something that is sensitive and i can't tell you exactly what is "all", you must try it. If you are unsure, don't finish it's task.

And open the game after starting the computer, not after doing other things. This way you'll ensure that your RAM is not filled with stuff.

 

I would recommend at least 12gb ram for the game and win10.
You can even try everything first with low quality settings, just to be sure.

 

edit: " locking up the USB support " are you running the game via USB?

[cossayos]

7 hours ago, Di3sIrae said:

 

edit: " locking up the USB support " are you running the game via USB?

 

No, after the CTD I lost mouse and keyboard support. Sometimes immediately, sometimes after a few seconds. That never happened to me before. Could also be a windows problem after the latest updates (win 10 64). But it only happened with FO4 in fullscreen mode.

 

As far as other games go, I could run Bioware's latest trainwreck in medium to high settings whithout even a single crash. Different engine, for sure, but I'm more an more convinced that it's a memory problem. Also my weakest point, I would say, since I only got 8 gigs of Ram.

 

Thanks for your reply.

[Di3sIrae]

6 hours ago, cossayos said:

"No, after the CTD I lost mouse and keyboard support."  "That never happened to me before. Could also be a windows problem after the latest updates (win 10 64)."

 

"but I'm more an more convinced that it's a memory problem. Also my weakest point, I would say, since I only got 8 gigs of Ram."

Oh, right lol
Well, windows updates *can* make things behave as they shouldn't, but unlikely. It is also good to recheck GPU drivers, maybe uninstall and reinstall them when you have some problems. Bt as i said, 8gb RAM for a Fallout 4 with mods may be the problem, yes.
I don't bother checking how much memory/vram my game is using, but the game usually uses 6gb, and windows 10 uses around 2gb... that's already enough for a normal game. Then with mods... 8gb becomes not that much. I'm not an expert, but in your case i guess the only option would be trying to close all other programs. Maybe even try to run steam offline, it seens steam uses some memory while gaming that could be saved.
Why other games don't suffer this may be explained by mods. A game is made and (hopefully) optimized to run as it is. You get more content (dlc, updates and mods) and things can go south.

Hope you can get over your problem, can't think of anything else.

[cossayos]

2 hours ago, Di3sIrae said:

Maybe even try to run steam offline, it seens steam uses some memory while gaming that could be saved.
 

 

I'm running steam in offline and only start the game using F4SE.

 

But it might be a good idea to quit every other program, since Firefox alone eats up 2 Gigs. So, added to the OS, a total of 4 Gigs is consumed and the game can only run with the remaining 4.

[Di3sIrae]

Now that's a good thing to do, i never game with web browser open ?

[cossayos]

It seems, you really helped me making the magic happen. Game runs much smoother and without a single crash after freeing up the additional ram.

 

Thanks for that.

[Di3sIrae]

Whoa, glad to read this. I'm happy that it was only a minor issue.

 

Now, good gaming!! ?

[VonHelton]

As a general rule, most things these days need a MINIMUM of 16 gig.......Anything less & yer just kidding yourself.

 

?
 

 

 

 

[cossayos]

A bunch of issues still persist and I can't nail them down.

 

First, Red Rocket is unstable as hell. I keep crashing there like there is no tommorow. I looked it up on the web and it seems as if Red Rocket has been a trouble spot right from the start.

 

Secondly, menus. It's always a gamble to trade equipment, scroll the map or go into one of the MCM menus. Does anyone know what kind of mechanic is behind the menus? Are they script based? I also had a look at task manager while browsing the menus. Nothing spikes when they crash. I'm at the low end of memory usage as well as GPU, CPU or hard drive usage.

 

I also noticed that FO4 only uses about 2,5 Gigs of memory when running. Is there a way to manually allocate more?

[VonHelton]

I don't HAVE any CTD's........

 

Try this........

 

https://www.bitchute.com/video/kGSWHfxY2hgn/

 

?

 

 

[cossayos]

Thanks, but I already know that vid.

 

I'm also using AAF exclusively. The problem certainly isn't related to AAF or it's dependent mods. It has been a problem way before I installed any of them. It's got something to do with menus/container and browsing through the options.

[VonHelton]

2 minutes ago, cossayos said:

Thanks, but I already know that vid.

 

I'm also using AAF exclusively. The problem certainly isn't related to AAF or it's dependent mods. It has been a problem way before I installed any of them. It's got something to do with menus/container and browsing through the options.

If you followed the instructions in that vid, or if you have a pure AAF build, then it must be a bad game install.

 

I'd verify my files via steam to make sure nothing is corrupted.

 

?

 

 

[Di3sIrae]

Yeah, verifying game files with steam, resetting ini files and running BethIni to make sure there's nothing weird there...
I must say that *sometimes* when opening the PipBoy or the menu, my game will slow down a bit. I don't know why. Couldn't notice this recently, though. I really don't know how it works. You could try to reinstall F4SE scripts, WHO KNOWS lol
Do you use DEF_UI or anu other UI mods? I know it enhances some things and i like it.

 

About RedRocket, i know i read it more than one time, about the place being bad, but i can't say nothing by myself, never had any problems there. Have you tried mods to optimize the game? Like Optimized Vanilla Textures, Boston FPS Fix... Also, are you using the HD DLC?

 

I know that the engine have it's own memory limitations, but nothing more than that. Could you take a look at this mod? https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/33947

Some people were talking that it can help, although i can't say for myself, again. Tried it and no difference for me.

Also take a look at your load order. Save a backup of it, and then start playing a bit, moving some mods all the way up or down. This may help, but is absolutely a work that you must understand what you're doing, and is up to you to know the place of things, don't rely on LOOT, for example.

[cossayos]

59 minutes ago, Di3sIrae said:

 

 

About RedRocket, i know i read it more than one time, about the place being bad, but i can't say nothing by myself, never had any problems there. Have you tried mods to optimize the game? Like Optimized Vanilla Textures, Boston FPS Fix... Also, are you using the HD DLC?

 

 

 

About a month ago, I did a clean reinstall of the game and started out in it's vanilla state. Red Rocket was a crashpoint even without any mods. While the game mostly runs without issues, I have two of these glory holes. The first one is Red Rocket, the other one Fort Strong's lower level with the Super Mutants and the nuclear gear. Boston doesn't present any kind of problems. And no, I don't have the HD DLC installed.

 

Same with the menu structure. It crashes on occasion, with or without mods. Which is why I asked for the mechanic behind them. Going by task manager it's the least demanding feature of the game and still my weakest point as far as stability is concerned. Apart from MCM and Looks menu I haven't got any mods altering the UI.

 

There's also an issue with certain dialogues. The one with Ada after aquiring Jezzebel's head always crashes my game on the first try. Knowing that, I always do a save right before it triggers and restarting from that point it doesn't present any issues.

[VonHelton]

54 minutes ago, cossayos said:

 

About a month ago, I did a clean reinstall of the game and started out in it's vanilla state. Red Rocket was a crashpoint even without any mods. While the game mostly runs without issues, I have two of these glory holes. The first one is Red Rocket, the other one Fort Strong's lower level with the Super Mutants and the nuclear gear. Boston doesn't present any kind of problems. And no, I don't have the HD DLC installed.

 

Same with the menu structure. It crashes on occasion, with or without mods. Which is why I asked for the mechanic behind them. Going by task manager it's the least demanding feature of the game and still my weakest point as far as stability is concerned. Apart from MCM and Looks menu I haven't got any mods altering the UI.

 

There's also an issue with certain dialogues. The one with Ada after aquiring Jezzebel's head always crashes my game on the first try. Knowing that, I always do a save right before it triggers and restarting from that point it doesn't present any issues.

Ok, When you uninstall Fallout 4, there are files hidden elsewhere on your computer other than just your Fallout 4 folder.

 

Documents/My Games/Fallout 4

(User Name)/AppData/Local/Fallout 4 (This location is hidden, you'll hafta go into Windows Explorer settings & allow you to see hidden files & folders)

 

MAKE SURE that when you uninstall, these folders are EMPTY.

 

Once you've confirmed that these folders are indeed empty, reinstall the game. (Probably wouldn't hurt to run defrag before you reinstall).

 

Make sure that Steam Updates are set to ON for at least this time. (You can turn it back off later if you wish).

 

Once the game is reinstalled, run the game with NO MODS AT ALL until you are out of the vault.

 

Why? Because this resets & writes your INI files, and you want your INI files to be virgin coming out of the vault........No pun intended. Heh.

 

?

 

At this point, BACK UP YOUR FALLOUT 4 FOLDER SOMEWHERE..........D drive, E drive, etc.

 

Complete your mission with Codsworth & go greet Dogmeat. If you don't get any errors, you should be ok.

 

?

 

 

 

[cossayos]

Yeah, I took great care to remove all of them. inis, saves, the lot. Even the registry after getting rid of all the files. There wasn't even a single bit left to mess with the installation.

 

I haven't got hidden folders, since that's the first thing I take care of after installing any OS. Show hidden folders.

[VonHelton]

14 minutes ago, cossayos said:

Yeah, I took great care to remove all of them. inis, saves, the lot. Even the registry after getting rid of all the files. There wasn't even a single bit left to mess with the installation.

 

I haven't got hidden folders, since that's the first thing I take care of after installing any OS. Show hidden folders.

Ok, you cleaned up your registry as well? Good man!

 

Defrag & do a reinstall, and make SURE you have Steam Update turned on.

 

Yes, some people are complaining about CC stuff, but there might be bug fixes in there you need.

 

?

 

 

 

[cossayos]

18 minutes ago, VonHelton said:

 

Yes, some people are complaining about CC stuff, but there might be bug fixes in there you need.

 

?

 

 

 

 

Not sure about that, man. Do they even still update? Apart from the CC I mean. I turned it off after the last update that almost rendered my game unplayable. That was the major reason why I reinstalled from scratch. Before that update I had a relatively stable game. Apart from the mentioned issues with menus and the two locations.

 

I always start F4SE in order to fly under the steam radar.

[VonHelton]

15 hours ago, cossayos said:

 

Not sure about that, man. Do they even still update? Apart from the CC I mean. I turned it off after the last update that almost rendered my game unplayable. That was the major reason why I reinstalled from scratch. Before that update I had a relatively stable game. Apart from the mentioned issues with menus and the two locations.

 

I always start F4SE in order to fly under the steam radar.

I can honestly say that I have had zero probs........And I have all the CC stuff too.

 

Try putting the whole thing on there & the latest F4SE & see how it goes.

 

?

 

 

 

[cossayos]

OK, game runs mostly stable, but menus are a chore. Trading with Carla, scrolling through the inventory, lockup, crash. Opening the world map, scrolling with the mouse, lockup, crash. Trading with settlers and scrolling through the inventory, lockup, crash. MCM menu, scrolling, lockup, crash. Build menu, after a certain time, lockup, crash. Pip Boy menus are crash central, while things are different with vendors. Trading with Carla are a gamble. Sometimes it works, sometimes it leads to an immediate crash. I never once crashed with DC vendors and hardly with Goodneighbour's shops. With Bunker Hill I'm crashing occasionally while the Prydwen is stable.

 

I can't make heads or tails of it, since it seems the least demanding part of the game, going by what data task manager provides.

 

I attached my load order. Maybe something's wrong there.

 

 

Plugins.txt

 

Oh, and an additional question. How many of you use a dual monitor setup. I use extended desktop and I'm not entirely sure, if that doesn't contribute to the errors I get. Sometimes it seems as if the mouse pointer is in the second monitor when the crashes happen.

[Di3sIrae]

Menus are still a problem with Vanilla game? The last update will need some time for all mods to be updated  yet... but yes, it would be good to keep up to date, even if a lot of people keep playing in older versions without problems.
Maybe, now that you're saying, it can be a problem with the dual monitors. Does the game plays fine with only one monitor? *pressing win + P and disabling the second one or activating only the main one, i don't know how this works).
Also, i read that people had crashes when selecting the second monitor. So this can be a problem with the game window?
bForceIgnoreSmoothness=1 have something to do with mouse, or maybe nothing at all. Could test enabling/disabling.
Also, TopMostWindow=1 will make the windowed game be always on top, may help with your peoblem?
 

I really don't know what to say now