AI driven player cannot open door when in 3rd person

[Roggvir]

Player is AI driven, and running Travel package (given via scene he is part of).

Travel destination is in an interior cell, and player is standing right in front of the door, the camera is in 3rd person view.

He tries to activate the door (i see the him reaching for the door), but nothing happens.

But when in 1st person view, it works.

 

Using "player.activate door" in the console also works, regardless of camera view, so i thought maybe if i could somehow detect when the player tries to activate something, i could then issue papyrus command to make him activate the thing, which would surely work.

So, basically i need what the OnActivate does, except the other way around, which doesnt exist (or does it?), so i am back to square one - trying to figure out what the hell is happening here and how to fix it.

 

Ideas?

[Veladarius]

I have not used the new Creation Kit much at all so what I am asking is based on my experience with the one for Skyrim.

 

1 - is this a custom or altered location?

2 - On the navmesh, how big is the triangle the door is connected to?

 

My guess is possible the navmesh triangle the door is attached to is too small or is an odd shape and in third person the position of the character puts them just outside the triangle for the door. Only reason I can come up with for it to fail.

 

Barring that you can add a script to the door using the OnAcivate event.

[Roggvir]

3 hours ago, Veladarius said:

1 - is this a custom or altered location?

2 - On the navmesh, how big is the triangle the door is connected to?

 

My guess is possible the navmesh triangle the door is attached to is too small or is an odd shape and in third person the position of the character puts them just outside the triangle for the door. Only reason I can come up with for it to fail.

 

Barring that you can add a script to the door using the OnAcivate event.

1.) Custom location, or vanilla - it doesn't matter.

 

2.) No idea, but i think it is safe to say that in most cases the door is sitting on a triangle too small to also contain the position of 3rd person camera.

This happens with every door i tested (many different kinds of doors at different places, all vanilla game).

The character animation plays (reaching for the door), but not the door animation (where the door open a bit).

Also, it happens only when the player is AI driven, but when not AI driven, it always works even if in 3rd person (then again, yeah... could be one of those quirks Beth games are famous for).

 

Saddly, i cannot add script to the door in CK, because i cannot know which door is it gonna be (it depends on where player is, where he activates the "driving", and where is he going to and which doors are on the way there).

Maybe using some magic cloak effect, but i am not going to do that, i'd rather find solution to the actual cause than trying to work around the problem (not worth it in this case).

[Veladarius]

I play FO4 mostly in 3rd person and one thing I have noticed in FO4 that happens with doors that doesn't in Skyrim is that if an npc goes through a door and you have the crosshair on it to go through it takes a few seconds for the door to 'reset' as the door closes. The only way around this I have found is to not have the crosshair on the door when they go through and the door 'cycles' much faster. I have not tested this in 1st person to see if this happens there as well.

 

Since it can happen anywhere I would concentrate on detecting when the guiding npc goes through a door and have the player's view switch to 1st person then revert back after going through the door. Everything else I can thing of doing requires knowing that an npc is going to go through a door and have the player drop from the following mode and set the scene so the player uses the door independently (possibly with a delay to counter what I said above) then once through the door have them revert back to the following package.

 

I will have to check whether the delay on use of the door that happens I have had happen in 3rd person happens in first person as well.

[Veladarius]

Well, I tested the issue of the doors being unusable for a short period of time after an npc uses it while it closes behind them and it happens in first person as well as 3rd person. In the screen shot below you can see how the 'open' option is grayed out and it stays like that from the point that an npc uses the door until just after it closes. I thought it might be something that happened primarily in third person but apparently this is not the case.

 

It looks like your best bet is to add some sort of script to the alias of whomever is leading the player that detects when they use a door to go from one area to another that switches the player to first person then back again once they have moved to where the door leads.

[Roggvir]

I think you misunderstood what is this about.

There are no NPCs involved in this, nobody is "leading" the player, the player is AI driven.

[Veladarius]

That makes it much more difficult. One thing I have to ask, when trying different things did you just modify the same AI package or did you make new ones? I found with Skyrim that changing an AI package will not change it in the game and I had to make new packages instead. I found this out in a scene with Elisif and the first AI package for the player didn't work so I changed it and it continued to do the same thing, changed it to several different things and no change in game. So I decided to make a new AI package that was exactly the same as the current AI package was set up as and the new package worked. It is the only other suggestion that I have since this is something you are making that can happen anywhere.

[Roggvir]

It is a new package i made, it is running, and it works (console shows its running, player behaves accordingly => the package itself is working).

[Veladarius]

I am guessing that the travel package is handling the movement through the doors, maybe it doesn't like a particular setting such as something with the camera in the scene. At this point I have several suggestions:

1 - set it to first person view and let it go

2 - have the player move there themselves

3 - have them start moving towards the destination, fade out and move the player to the cell at a certain distance from the target, fade in and have them finish walking to the target.

4 - make the movement part of an AI behavior on the alias that gets them to within x distance of the target then have the scene pick up from there and disable the AI package via a variable within the conditions of the AI package. Not sure if it would work right as an AI behavior in the Alias instead of in the scene.

 

[Roggvir]

It seems you do not understand the situation, i'll explain it this way:

 

Player is AI driven.

Player travels from A to B.

A and B can be exterior or interior locations.

The number and location of doors on the way from A to B is unknown.

AI driven player is unable to open loading doors while in 3rd person.

 

The way i see it, there are two possible solutions:

1.) Find what bug is causing this and how to fix it, or how to avoid it.

2.) Find a way how to detect when player is about to activate any loading door.

[Veladarius]

7 hours ago, Roggvir said:

It seems you do not understand the situation, i'll explain it this way:

 

Player is AI driven.

Player travels from A to B.

A and B can be exterior or interior locations.

The number and location of doors on the way from A to B is unknown.

AI driven player is unable to open loading doors while in 3rd person.

 

The way i see it, there are two possible solutions:

1.) Find what bug is causing this and how to fix it, or how to avoid it.

2.) Find a way how to detect when player is about to activate any loading door.

I understand the situation and 1 - 3 is about avoiding the bug, 4 is as well somewhat since you are running a scene and would be either part of #1 or something to try to see if it works in 3rd person outside of the scene and as just an AI behavior in an alias. Just because a scene and/ or a package is running correctly does not mean that it is working correctly. ZAP v6.10 in Skyrim was a perfect example of this as due to the ZAP team finally deciding to update to the latest FNIS a detail was missed that caused all of their animations to not end which was set up that way purposefully in the newer FNIS. This caused the AI package to run but never allow the scene phase to end.

[Roggvir]

6 hours ago, Veladarius said:

I understand the situation and 1 - 3 is about avoiding the bug, 4 is as well somewhat since you are running a scene and would be either part of #1 or something to try to see if it works in 3rd person outside of the scene and as just an AI behavior in an alias. Just because a scene and/ or a package is running correctly does not mean that it is working correctly. ZAP v6.10 in Skyrim was a perfect example of this as due to the ZAP team finally deciding to update to the latest FNIS a detail was missed that caused all of their animations to not end which was set up that way purposefully in the newer FNIS. This caused the AI package to run but never allow the scene phase to end.

No, you do not understand.

 

1. set it to first person view and let it go

We are trying to solve a problem where something does not work in 3rd person.

We already know it works in 1st person, but the point of all this is to find a solution that makes the whole thing work even when player wants to use 3rd person.

Therefore, forcing 1st person for the whole duration, is not a solution.

 

2. have the player move there themselves

The player is AI driven for a reason. The reason is: because the player does not want to move by himself.

Therefore, forcing player to move by himself, is not a solution.

 

3. have them start moving towards the destination, fade out and move the player to the cell at a certain distance from the target, fade in and have them finish walking to the target.

"fade out ..."? - when? how do you know when to fade out?

"... move player to the cell ..."? - which cell? how would you even know you need to do that, much less which cell it is?

 

4. make the movement part of an AI behavior on the alias that gets them to within x distance of the target then have the scene pick up from there and disable the AI package via a variable within the conditions of the AI package. Not sure if it would work right as an AI behavior in the Alias instead of in the scene.

...this contains too much completely ridiculous bullshit nonsense that i will not even try to dissect.

I think you didn't even read what i wrote in my previous post, otherwise you wouldn't be able to come up with this ridiculous nonsense.

 

I think you are the kind of guy who just likes to talk a lot, regardless of whether he's got anything worth saying.

At first i tried my best not to be rude and appreciate someone is trying to help, but you are not trying to help.

You are just talking, because that is what makes you feel good about yourself.

Pathetic. Just stop, or go talk shit to somewhere else.

[Veladarius]

1 hour ago, Roggvir said:

3. have them start moving towards the destination, fade out and move the player to the cell at a certain distance from the target, fade in and have them finish walking to the target.

"fade out ..."? - when? how do you know when to fade out?

"... move player to the cell ..."? - which cell? how would you even know you need to do that, much less which cell it is?

If you can't figure out what cell the target is in then your scripting skills are pretty pathetic.

 

1 hour ago, Roggvir said:

4. make the movement part of an AI behavior on the alias that gets them to within x distance of the target then have the scene pick up from there and disable the AI package via a variable within the conditions of the AI package. Not sure if it would work right as an AI behavior in the Alias instead of in the scene.

...this contains too much completely ridiculous bullshit nonsense that i will not even try to dissect.

I think you didn't even read what i wrote in my previous post, otherwise you wouldn't be able to come up with this ridiculous nonsense.

Apparently you don't understand there are things that can happen in scenes that don't if it is just and AI behavior. Scenes are more complex and if you have an incorrect setting it may cause issues.

 

1 hour ago, Roggvir said:

I think you are the kind of guy who just likes to talk a lot, regardless of whether he's got anything worth saying.

At first i tried my best not to be rude and appreciate someone is trying to help, but you are not trying to help.

You are just talking, because that is what makes you feel good about yourself.

Pathetic. Just stop, or go talk shit to somewhere else.

I've written hundreds of scenes and AI packages in Skyrim but if this is how you treat people that attempt to help I doubt you will get anyone else to help you.