Is It Possible To Fake Your Gender?

[Koda]

Hey folks,

 

Sort of an unusual question, but I want to play a submissive male character and most of the player-submissive content is for females only. In most cases I can get around it by started a quest/scenario as a female them using the race menu to switch back, but I was wondering if there was a way to fool the game into thinking my character is female while having a male body. Also, is there any male-compatible bondage gear? Most of it seems to work for females only, but I vaguely recall screenshots here and there of bound-looking guys.

 

Thanks in advance for any assistance!

[Loogie]

If it's the Tryouts stuff, I never added gay content just because it isn't my thing so whatever I came up with probably wouldn't be sexy. If you want to try and learn modding by adding in a male path for things, I'd be glad to help if you get stuck.

 

Someone a couple years back expressed interest in doing this, then disappeared. So if anyone wants to see it happen, I'll be happy to assist, but don't have the time or inclination to do it myself.

[Phelps1247]

Use a custom race and swap the meshes maybe?

Like take malebody.nif and rename it femalebody.nif  (or whatever they happen to be called, this is an example only).

[Koda]

Use a custom race and swap the meshes maybe?

Like take malebody.nif and rename it femalebody.nif  (or whatever they happen to be called, this is an example only).

 

Hm, could work. I'll do a bit of reading and see how difficult that would be to pull off (relative to just using showracemenu now and then). Thanks for the suggestion.

 

If it's the Tryouts stuff, I never added gay content just because it isn't my thing so whatever I came up with probably wouldn't be sexy. If you want to try and learn modding by adding in a male path for things, I'd be glad to help if you get stuck.

 

Someone a couple years back expressed interest in doing this, then disappeared. So if anyone wants to see it happen, I'll be happy to assist, but don't have the time or inclination to do it myself.

 

Just to clarify, it's not so much that I'm looking for gay content (I actually prefer F/m, but M/m is fine), just to access female-only stories (such as the Legion or Kennel) with a male character model. I wouldn't mind creating alternate scripts for all my favorite mods so they could properly recognize a male slave (since many are not gender restricted but refer to the PC as a woman either way), but I suspect it would be problematic to code it all in.

 

Once thing I could try, however, is removing/editing the gender flags. Having no experience in Fallout modding, do you think that would be a simple fix or is the scripting too fully baked for something like that?

 

Thanks again for your help!

[Loogie]

For dialog, really should just be adding new male options in, which is easy. If you want approaches like in Tryouts, that would need to have the scripts modified, but is doable.

[Halstrom]

There's a few issues that come to my mind to get around, there's probably more:

 

1. A lot of scripted stuff, effects & conditions use the "GetIsSex Female == 1"

2. Changing the players female mesh into a male body I think changes all females to appear male 

3. I think there is a lack of male versions of most bondage stuff.

[nyaalich]

I remember reading somewhere that some toys (gags maybe?...stuff like that) only had textures for women and not men.  Someone asked in some other Sexout thread why they weren't seeing it on their male PC.

[A.J.]

doing a custom male race seems the best option to me. I mean, female with male mesh

[Odessa]

 

Also, is there any male-compatible bondage gear? Most of it seems to work for females only, but I vaguely recall screenshots here and there of bound-looking guys.

 

I don't think any of the items in spectrums toy pack / gsb bdsm pack have male meshes. If you are willing to convert them yourself, I have a few ideas for encounters in Sexout Soliciting with them . I would guess it isn't that hard to change a ball gag or buttplug.

 

Incidentally, the ZaZ BDSM animations work with males.

[nyaalich]

If you look in the Modder's Resources main forum, I believe that there are insta-conversion scripts for either Blender or nifskope.  That may help.  I pretty much only know that it exists and can be used to convert armors.

[Halstrom]

Yeah, it's no big deal for someone with some mesh skills to reposition & stretch if needed a lot of the female stuff and then create a SCR patch pointing the male versions to the new mesh in the data folder, submit it to me and I'll merge it into SCR.

[Koda]

Yeah, it's no big deal for someone with some mesh skills to reposition & stretch if needed a lot of the female stuff and then create a SCR patch pointing the male versions to the new mesh in the data folder, submit it to me and I'll merge it into SCR.

 

Not familiar with how to do that, unfortunately, though the conversion scrip nyaalich refers to is intriguing. I am tempted to convert few pieces of simple staple gear like collars, gags, or plugs, like Odessa mentions, but I'll see how involved the process is.

 

I don't think any of the items in spectrums toy pack / gsb bdsm pack have male meshes. If you are willing to convert them yourself, I have a few ideas for encounters in Sexout Soliciting with them . I would guess it isn't that hard to change a ball gag or buttplug.

 

Incidentally, the ZaZ BDSM animations work with males.

 

Yes, all the animations seem to work well (including your vengeance for Ruby Nash, if that was one); looking forward to any gear/BDSM in Soliciting at any rate, even it ends up not reflecting on my character model. Thanks!

 

For dialog, really should just be adding new male options in, which is easy. If you want approaches like in Tryouts, that would need to have the scripts modified, but is doable.

 

This is what I've been fiddling with. I messed with a few of the text-conditionals that Halstrom mentions and that works for smoothing out a given quest, but may try to find and adjust the approaches also. If that works, everything should end up fairly playable. It might be fun to create proper male paths at some point, but that would be overkill for my current goal, which was just to check out what folks have come up with in sexy-Fallout.

[prideslayer]

Loogie (and any other modders), I'm not sure on the difficulty, but where appropriate gender specific stuff could check for the HeFemale effect as well as the actual gender and it would mostly solve the OPs issue.

 

The gender checks within sexout are combined with effect checks that effectively turn a female into a male (SexoutSheMaleEffect) or turn a male into a female (SexoutHeFemaleEffect). The only mods actually setting any of these that I'm aware of are the ones using strapons -- all strapons have (or should have) the SexoutShemaleEffect on them, applying it to the user when worn.

 

These effects do nothing to the appearance of the character themselves, they are just there to tell sexout that when a certain Gender is called for, the wearer of the item causing the effect qualifies as that gender.

 

I *think* in the Geck if the checks looked for gender *or* the effect, then all the bases would be covered.

 

After that, someone just needs to make a mod that provides an item that male characters can wear with the effect, and add it to the safeforsex formlist. It would not have to change their appearance or mesh unless that is also an effect the user is after -- sexout doesn't know or care about the mesh naughty bits.

[nyaalich]

I *think* in the Geck if the checks looked for gender *or* the effect, then all the bases would be covered.

 

 

That only applies to Sexout and/or SCR themselves, right?  That is to say, there's probably no guarantee that other mods won't have dialogue checks w/ getav female.

 

EDIT:  By that, I mean doesn't it only come into play with actual sex calls SCR equip/other magic?

 

@Koda:  I can't see your OP at the moment.  Were there certain mods that you were trying to play (Legion?)?  If I could get some sort of verification from the mod makers that their mods allow the Shemale and HeFemale (I think that's the name of the effect) effects in addition to explicitly checking if the PC is female (to essentially find out if it's worth my time and without my having to manually download and open 20 mods), I can make it.

[prideslayer]

Well, yes. Dialog checks that don't check for the effect... won't check for the effect. If all the sexout ones were changed to do so however, it's problem solved as far as sexout mods are concerned, which the OP was asking about.

 

The only alternative to that is to make a female character, but replace the female mesh with a male one. This has the great side effect of putting *all* females in the game into a male body, unless you make a custom race for the PC.

[nyaalich]

Although, he'd be constrained to use a female head in face creation, yes?  I don't know how manly you can make a woman's face w/ the generator.

[Koda]

After that, someone just needs to make a mod that provides an item that male characters can wear with the effect, and add it to the safeforsex formlist. It would not have to change their appearance or mesh unless that is also an effect the user is after -- sexout doesn't know or care about the mesh naughty bits.

 

This is a clever workaround and would be ideal because some content (only Courtesans and Veronica D/s that I can think of, but maybe others) properly recognizes male characters, so I could presumably unequip the "HeFemale" item when interfacing with that. When I was poking through one of the Tryout dialogues (I think Fiends), there were many GetIsSex Female == 1, but no mention of SheMale or HeFemale. Some sort of script that "forces" GetIsSex Female to == 1 while SexoutHeFemaleEffect applies would presumably solve this across all mods, but that might not be possible.

 

 

@Koda:  I can't see your OP at the moment.  Were there certain mods that you were trying to play (Legion?)?  If I could get some sort of verification from the mod makers that their mods allow the Shemale and HeFemale (I think that's the name of the effect) effects in addition to explicitly checking if the PC is female (to essentially find out if it's worth my time and without my having to manually download and open 20 mods), I can make it.

 

 

I was trying to play the Legion and the Powder Gangers / Kennel mods when I started the thread. Again, they fortunately turned out to be fairly stable once I started the quest (by getting enslaved/whatever as a female then using showracemenu to switch back), but I did not personally see any explicit compatability for the HeShemale effect when poking through .esps (as menitoned above). I'm not familiar with how it all works, though, so I may have been looking in the wrong spots.

 

The one thing that plain never works as a male is the rape/approaches in Legion, PG, Fiends, etc. (ie. no one walks up and demands sex), and are, in some cases, important to the content progression (eg. you need to be approached by 25 PGs, or talk back enough times to Legion members). This is probably what I would most like solved since it feels like one of the core mechanics of Sexout/Tryout. So if Tryout's approach protocols (?) support the HeFemale effect as a stand-in for actually being female, then prideslayer's equippable idea would be very helpful there, I think.

 

Sorry again if I have the terminology wrong or I'm not answering your question. Although I have some scripting experience I'm very unfamiliar with GECK and Fallout as a platform.

[Halstrom]

Personally I am happy to make such changes in any of my stuff to allow this, I have just changed a lot of the Fertility/Pregnancy checks to allow GetIsSex Male if the MCM check box is active but I can't think of any other things I need to change in my stuff. As to whether pregnancy body swaps for Males/SheMales we would need Pregnant male meshes done or Pregnant SheMale meshes and the Female meshes copied to a male mesh folder and SCR Outfit Male pointers changed. Dependant on if people want SheMales to be able to be pregnant.

 

 

Sometimes I wonder if Sexout should have a custom Player race as default or an option to make it easier for it's mods to handle this stuff but maybe that causes more issues with other mods or would it? 

[prideslayer]

Hmm Hal. Default would be no good, because the custom race(s) will not use the player installed bodies. The included bodies would be the only ones you get, unless you do a manual install of your desired nude bodies and textures to the custom race location.

 

What other issues would it solve for us? For he-shes and herms a race might work, but it sounds like the OP is looking more for a sissy/gay type thing, which isn't a race issue.

 

Having the wrong gender on the player will screw up a lot of normal gameplay stuff like the gender-related perks and their dialog as well, it's not really a perfect solution. Checking for the sexout effects seems like a better approach, if the mod authors don't create different dialog branches.

[nyaalich]

A mod could check to see if the player was in dialogue, and if so, change the sex and then change it back after they weren't in dialogue.

 

EDIT:  Presuming that changing the sex back and forth doesn't screw up the initially created face.

[Halstrom]

Hmm Hal. Default would be no good, because the custom race(s) will not use the player installed bodies. The included bodies would be the only ones you get, unless you do a manual install of your desired nude bodies and textures to the custom race location.

 

What other issues would it solve for us? For he-shes and herms a race might work, but it sounds like the OP is looking more for a sissy/gay type thing, which isn't a race issue.

 

Having the wrong gender on the player will screw up a lot of normal gameplay stuff like the gender-related perks and their dialog as well, it's not really a perfect solution. Checking for the sexout effects seems like a better approach, if the mod authors don't create different dialog branches.

Well, yeah defaults no good, only other thing that comes to mind is it allows the player to have a different body type without screwing all the NPC's, I'm sure someone could knock up a good guide on how to install any of the common custom body types into the custom body folder. But it would probably screw up popular mods like Hair Mods/Desert Succubus/Mojave Delight etc

 

It would allow custom meshes like herms for either sex dependant on whether they wanted Pregnancy or other gender biological stuff as an option.

 

Of course then we'd have to have an option to set a NX Variable for Pregnancy to know the genetic race of the Custom Race as well, Cauc/Asian/Ghoul etc and we'd need them to set an NX with the Bodytype T3Cali/6M/BnB etc for swapping.

 

I don't know, I'm just throwing the idea out there for discussion

[prideslayer]

A mod could check to see if the player was in dialogue, and if so, change the sex and then change it back after they weren't in dialogue.

 

EDIT:  Presuming that changing the sex back and forth doesn't screw up the initially created face.

It "screws it up" for the duration of the conversation. Also I'm not sure if the gender swap console command works from a script or not. There isn't a complete 1:1 mapping between console commands and script commands. It's an interesting idea though and would be really easy to do in a standalone esp for testing, if the command is available.

 

A menumode 1009 script would just have to check a persistent var (e.g. an NX var on the player) to see if the swap should be done or not (this would really be controlled by MCM or something), and another to see if it has been done yet. If it's not done, do it, otherwise do nothing.

 

Not sure where the switch back would occur. In gamemode certainly, but perhaps in some of the other menumodes as well.

[nyaalich]

FWIW, it's mentioned in the GECK wiki.  http://geck.bethsoft.com/index.php?title=SexChange

 

I might be able to throw it together for testing sometime this week.

[prideslayer]

The only real problem I can see is that it might be too 'slow'. If the dialog kicks off with a gender check in the first tier, it might not have happened before the dialog is displayed. Also it won't cover things like tryouts approaches of course, but those can be addressed by checking the effect I mentioned previously in addition to the gender.

 

This is a good place for a shared UDF I think, something like SOGetIsMale that checks both. I *still* haven't even tested creating a UDF though; can someone tell me, if I make one like this in Sexout, can other mods use it easily?

[nyaalich]

Would the Kings esm be a pretty safe mod to test a sex change mod on?  I'm guessing that has approaches, which is the primary concern.  I'm just not into non-consensual, so I only want "safe" mods that will get the testing job done.