Can someone explain why people like UNP and 7base over CBBE?

[Jacksquat]

I know this is a little off topic but I'm hoping one of you know the answer off the top of your head, regarding CBBE bodyslide. I know how to make a custom body with the slider and replace my custom races etc... but how do you "edit" an already made body with the slider? I've tried to copy and paste it all over the place and I still can't find it in the bodyslider to make minor adjustments.

[Taskmaster]

Yeah, I made my own custom normal map combining assets I enjoy, awhile ago, one of them being the soles from the CBBE normals because they actually have somewhat of an arch to them. The rest are some abs and leg work. I just didn't do it for the toes, they aren't lined up properly for easy conversion and I'd need 3dmax or something to wrap them to get correct colorway - I'd rather just be playing(being honest).

 

And yeah, femfeet redesigned is amazing. 

 

For 7B, it's the bombshell version that have those super legs, which go really well with some muscular normals. Definitely a great standard.

 

If we talking about old school bodies from other Beth games, I really liked HGEC LightGuts and Fallout 3 Exnem.

[Skyrimfloo]

I wouldn't say it's a terrible body option, but it was the first high-quality body available during its time. Back then, it was the holy grail of body mods and was really what spawned the massive wave of modders to migrate to Skyrim from Oblivion. Now though, it's a pretty dated body mod and it's starting to show its age. Higher-poly alternatives are readily available today. But I agree, UNP and any of its derivatives are simply better looking right out of the box which is what probably appeals to a lot of people. If I were new to modding, I wouldn't know what the hell bodyslide is, or even less the outfit studio. I definitely wouldn't want to mess around with it and risk my installation somehow. You still have to play around with the bodyslide program to get something that is satisfying.

 

Uh, concerning this... Isn't it possible then, to use Bodyslide to modify UNP bodies? I assume that the sliders have nothing to do with poly count, and it works pretty much the same except for maybe some texture missalignments. Considering that you can use Bodyslide to convert stuff to UNP, I thought that was the case. Or does it reduce the poly count of the body shape?

 

I love CBBE/Bodyslide simply because I like being able to tweak my character's body. I don't really enjoy playing pre-made bodies that everybody use already.

[Ryu]

 

I wouldn't say it's a terrible body option, but it was the first high-quality body available during its time. Back then, it was the holy grail of body mods and was really what spawned the massive wave of modders to migrate to Skyrim from Oblivion. Now though, it's a pretty dated body mod and it's starting to show its age. Higher-poly alternatives are readily available today. But I agree, UNP and any of its derivatives are simply better looking right out of the box which is what probably appeals to a lot of people. If I were new to modding, I wouldn't know what the hell bodyslide is, or even less the outfit studio. I definitely wouldn't want to mess around with it and risk my installation somehow. You still have to play around with the bodyslide program to get something that is satisfying.

 

Uh, concerning this... Isn't it possible then, to use Bodyslide to modify UNP bodies? I assume that the sliders have nothing to do with poly count, and it works pretty much the same except for maybe some texture missalignments. Considering that you can use Bodyslide to convert stuff to UNP, I thought that was the case. Or does it reduce the poly count of the body shape?

 

I love CBBE/Bodyslide simply because I like being able to tweak my character's body. I don't really enjoy playing pre-made bodies that everybody use already.

 

From what I know each silder in Bodyslide has a scale of 0-100, which basically quantifies the balance between femalebody_0 and femalebody_1 for a specific feature. Therefore, you have one femalebody_0, but numerous femalebody_1, one for each feature you want to make customizable. If you know how to prepare the respective femalebodies for Bodyslide then I see no reason why your UNP set would not fit into a CBBE Bodyslide app and thereby Bodyslide2 + OutfitStudio .

[hryh23k9823u]

I started with CBBE because was the first (or one of the firsts) nude replacers in Skyrim, I dont like it particularly. Then went with CBCHCBHSDF whatever because it was the first breast bounce, I dont like it either. I never used UNP because I dislike its shape, then I used UNPB, still one of the bests, however Mak's Remodeled Armor made me switch CBBE without any kind of doubt. And then Bodyslide. Too easy to make diferent bodies for each race, npc, your character, from fantasy bodies to realistic ones, then pregnancy support, and also, wow, some Chronotrigger had the great idea of making Mak's Remodeled Armor into Bodylide. There was no kind of doubt after that.

 

I love Sevenbase, great legs/thighs, and I used it (god bless Mod Organizer), however at the end, its more of the same, you being stuck in a predefined shape. However I understand that novice 3d modelers that makes bodies to practice their blender/3dmax arts, likes more vertices to work with, but for the final user, that not only wants to take screenshots but also put textures and papyrus-stressing mods, a well optimized body is better than high vertice count. We all know that Skyrim is pretty limited techologically speaking and CTD's are the most common result of modding attempts. Also, FXAA and normal maps (the real detail element) make the vertice count diference unnoticeable.

[Aegis]

More vertices will most definitely be noticeable. Once you use a high poly body, it's just hard to go back to a low poly one.

 

Take the default unp/cbbe head mesh, for instance (click to see at original resolution):

 

 

 

 

 

 

The default unp/cbbe head mesh is on the left, and the high poly head mesh is on the right.

 

Pay special attention to the chin, the mouth, the ears, the nose, and even the eyes - the high poly version is noticeably less blocky.

 

A properly baked normal map can help alleviate the blockiness, but if you are using the default unp/cbbe head mesh, just zoom into your character's chin in game, you'll most likely notice the blockiness (only 3 verts control the lower chin for the vanilla head, that's something even a normal map can't fix).

 

 

 

The same is true for the body mesh; with more verts, you can create more realistic morphs that behave more naturally, such as:

 

 

 

 

 

 

The whole squeezed and bulging breast morph would not have been possible without the high poly breast mesh.

[gvman3670]

CBBE has the best boobs and ass for sure to me... I can make them any size I want. Its the armor support that bothers me.

 

I don't like the CBBE brood mother melons at all. I prefer the perky boobs with upswept nipples of the base UNP body.

 

But alas, it's just down to personal preference again, isn't it?

[Redflyingmonkey]

Most of your issues with CBBE seem to come from various areas that you don't particularly like. Aboutt the shoulders, there are a least 4 sliders in bodyslide for that area, and about the hamstrings there's so much thigh sliders you can make a litteral hamstring with your legs with it ... All in all, most of those issues go obsolete with bodyslide, and for some reasons the support for this body is still really small ! I just want to turn into a dictator and take all the modelers by the ears and put them in front of their computers and force them to build more stuff for CBBE bodyslide.

I know it's not reasonable, but just like the OP, I think that once you start bodysliding stuff you really see all those other bodies as completely obsolete, even if of course everyone has their tastes and as it has already been said, there are still differences like verticles and poly count.

 

PS ; I've seen your pics and, while I understand the difference better now, I can still racemenu/chargen the shit out of my character and add the no more blocky face mod with some HD textures, and put hair on my char, then all of this disappears into thin air. They're just microscopic details and kind of petty ones at that, but again I get that some people only want the best and only the best, the most HD etc ... It's just that, personal point of vie again, it just seems so vain ...

[hryh23k9823u]

 

More vertices will most definitely be noticeable. Once you use a high poly body, it's just hard to go back to a low poly one.

 

Take the default unp/cbbe head mesh, for instance (click to see at original resolution):

 

 

 

 

 

 

The default unp/cbbe head mesh is on the left, and the high poly head mesh is on the right.

 

Pay special attention to the chin, the mouth, the ears, the nose, and even the eyes - the high poly version is noticeably less blocky.

 

A properly baked normal map can help alleviate the blockiness, but if you are using the default unp/cbbe head mesh, just zoom into your character's chin in game, you'll most likely notice the blockiness (only 3 verts control the lower chin for the vanilla head, that's something even a normal map can't fix).

 

 

 

The same is true for the body mesh; with more verts, you can create more realistic morphs that behave more naturally, such as:

 

 

 

 

 

 

The whole squeezed and bulging breast morph would not have been possible without the high poly breast mesh.

 

 

 

Well yes, the high poly head looks less angled in some zones, but it's not like it looks realistic in any case, in fact, more detail leads for me into some uncanny valley effect... I personally wouldnt bother to try that in my +200 mods build. And the second example is different, that kind of 'bulging' exists already in the two most common body types.

 

Nah, if Skyrim was made in CryEngine we could talk...

 

[BagashiBagashi]

I use UNPC

 

Why?

Well, i find it more natural looking and realistic: Shapes and textures for UNP/UNPC/UNPB etc etc are 3 steps over the ones used for CBBE.

UNPC, especially, is the more natural-looking around, and if used in addition to ''Real Girls'' textures, the result is almost 'concrete'.

From my sight, i don't understand why all of this CBBE love: shapes are unnatural, stomach is unavailable for organs and other particulars are (to me, of course) unattractive.

For this it is so ''meh'' looking at thousand of epic armors for CBBE. CBBE only while UNP have fewer...

 

[Aegis]

Well, it all depends on the situation. You can get away with a lot of things when playing at, say, 1080p, but when playing at 4k resolution, things that would otherwise look decent suddenly look terrible.

 

For instance, the vanilla daedric armor, with bethesda's 2k texture, rendered at 4k w/o downsampling:

 

 

 

 

 

 

The shoddiness of the mesh/textures show right through, and it's just not very pleasant, which is why I always opt for the best possible quality:

 

 

 

Same distance from the body as the daedric armor above:

 

Even closer shot, w/o any noticeable blockiness/aliasing (except for jpeg compression artifacts):

 

 

 

 

Again, it's just a matter of personal choice. Do I need 8k skin textures instead of 4k? Definitely not. But do I want it? Of course.

[Victoria K.]

I can understand unp is well done with more poly and all, but really, nothing can beat the great and easy customization of cbbe, that's the most important thing for me, I don't like to walk around with some clone.

Even for fallout 3 and vegas I had to do a lot of work mixing different bodies in order to get what I really wanted.

 

I really love to have bodies the way I really want them to be. The possibility at hands to modify a body in so many ways it's just too superior to be exchanged with more vertices and so little noticeable difference in game.

I'm also using Skyrim for taking screenshots for a short story of mine, just a personal little project and I really need to build different people the way I imagine them, that's something CBBE makes possible in a totally easy and unbelievable way.

 

Btw speaking of the meshes alone, the first major deal-breaker about UNP are the tights and the bottom for me, see pic. What's that? It's okay trying to be realistic, of course, but I don't have those flabby thighs in real life, why on earth should I have them in a game?

 

For realism sake that's something my mom or my grandma have. She is also supposed to be a warrior or someone who doesn't sit around all day, do some sport my darling, that's not toned at all. It's not even muscular, that's just flaccid legs. I would expect something more toned from a Dovahkiin running around all day.

 

(pic - UNP tights, something I don't like at all)

 

I don't even mention the breast, it's so nice and easy to achieve so many results on CBBE and very realistic ones, BreastGravity slide for one is one of the greatest.

 

So in the end, I wouldn't trade all the pros of CBBE for better little details hardly noticeable in game, a good texture pack really do the job and in case of some clothes on, the differences are even less noticeable.

 

Being said that, I'm grateful for all the body mods, they gave us options and that's the most important thing. Then each one have their own preference, of course, but the more we have to chose from, the better.

 

 

 

 

More vertices will most definitely be noticeable. Once you use a high poly body, it's just hard to go back to a low poly one.

 

Take the default unp/cbbe head mesh, for instance (click to see at original resolution):

 

 

 

 

 

 

The default unp/cbbe head mesh is on the left, and the high poly head mesh is on the right.

 

Pay special attention to the chin, the mouth, the ears, the nose, and even the eyes - the high poly version is noticeably less blocky.

 

A properly baked normal map can help alleviate the blockiness, but if you are using the default unp/cbbe head mesh, just zoom into your character's chin in game, you'll most likely notice the blockiness (only 3 verts control the lower chin for the vanilla head, that's something even a normal map can't fix).

 

 

 

The same is true for the body mesh; with more verts, you can create more realistic morphs that behave more naturally, such as:

 

 

 

 

 

 

The whole squeezed and bulging breast morph would not have been possible without the high poly breast mesh.

 

 

 

Well yes, the high poly head looks less angled in some zones, but it's not like it looks realistic in any case, in fact, more detail leads for me into some uncanny valley effect... I personally wouldnt bother to try that in my +200 mods build. And the second example is different, that kind of 'bulging' exists already in the two most common body types.

 

Nah, if Skyrim was made in CryEngine we could talk...

 

Agreed.
 

[BagashiBagashi]

 

 

CBBE can't into this perfection and particulars

(this is UNPC with real girls)

[ousnius]

So, I've read the whole thread now, and the only negative point about CBBE is apparently the vertex count (the fact that there are "no" good textures existing isn't only CBBE's fault).

 

Caliente still has the raw HQ meshes on her PC...

 

PS: UNP and the others aren't realistic either

[hryh23k9823u]

 

 

 

 

CBBE can't into this perfection and particulars

(this is UNPC with real girls)

 

 

A simple conversion of Real Girls to CBBE can do it. I would have done it myself but I dont like that texture, too many details I dont like.

 

 

So, I've read the whole thread now, and the only negative point about CBBE is apparently the vertex count (the fact that there are "no" good textures existing isn't only CBBE's fault).

 

Caliente still has the raw HQ meshes on her PC...

 

There are good textures, most of the most common 'realistic' textures are unp/cbbe, the only exception was Real Girls I think that is now pretty common. Almost tempted to try a conversion...

 

About the raw HQ meshes, why doesn't Caliente publish them as modders resources or for users that want to use them at their own risk?

 

[ousnius]

 

 

 

So, I've read the whole thread now, and the only negative point about CBBE is apparently the vertex count (the fact that there are "no" good textures existing isn't only CBBE's fault).

 

Caliente still has the raw HQ meshes on her PC...

 

There are good textures, most of the most common 'realistic' textures are unp/cbbe, the only exception was Real Girls I think that is now pretty common. Almost tempted to try a conversion...

 

About the raw HQ meshes, why doesn't Caliente publish them as modders resources or for users that want to use them at their own risk?

 

 

 

There will be better weighting and more verts in the next version of CBBE some time after the next version of BS/OS. No ETA as always (for both)...

 

Old CBBE BodySlide conversions will keep the old CBBE meshes and will stay compatible with BodySlide. All new CBBE BodySlide conversions will automatically be made with the new meshes using Outfit Studio. Old BS conversions can be updated using OS to use the new meshes.

[Absurdity]

Ah, one of those threads again...

[Victoria K.]

 

There will be better weighting and more verts in the next version of CBBE some time after the next version of BS/OS. No ETA as always (for both)...

 

Old CBBE BodySlide conversions will keep the old CBBE meshes and will stay compatible with BodySlide. All new CBBE BodySlide conversions will automatically be made with the new meshes using Outfit Studio. Old BS conversions can be updated using OS to use the new meshes.

 

My goodness, this is AWESOME news!

I'm already pleased with the current one, would be magic to get an enhanced improved version with full compatibility! Really mind-blowing!

Thanks! Much love to Caliente and to you guys!

Can't wait for the release!

[zupra]

No matter how high body textures, UNP body shape is just not my cup of tea.

[zax]

More vertices doesnt mean better. It means UNOPTIMIZED.

[ousnius]

More vertices doesnt mean better. It means UNOPTIMIZED.

 

Especially the sliders of BodySlide create a need for more vertices. In that case, and when there are just not enough, it does indeed mean better.

 

Vertex count in this size really doesn't matter that much anymore today, even for old/slow GPU's... 

[Seren]

Eh, the maniac bit kinda made me stop taking it less serious than I already did when I saw the topic title, but here goes.

 

I prefer UNP over CBBE, because I don't like how smooth or actually featureless the body curves on CBBE are. CBBE has a sort of simplicity that makes it look more doll-like and outdated. This is due to the difference in vertex count. You can simply express less detail with less vertices, and less detail is expressed by CBBE vs UNP. Mind you, I am not talking about which body shape looks better at this point, I'm talking about a difference in detail within the shapes of the bodies.

 

I am someone who appreciates a lot of detail in his characters (without making it unrealistic), so I had to go with UNP eventually. Mind you, I started out with CBBE Slim and actually disliked UNP for the longest time. I had to see it in my own game with my own preferred textures before I appreciated the shape of the body. Even then I didn't instantly switch.

 

Curiousity brought me over the UNP and I ended up liking what I saw. Personally, I don't like the look of the breasts of CBBE and is what got me over to UNP. They're like these perfectly round half-spheres with a sad excuse for nipples on them (no offense, Caliente) and the lower breast not ending in a curve inward looks really really fake to me. You can see my main problem CBBE very well in this image in which there is even a realistic body texture being used, yet it keeps looking so fake.

 

Some people like fake breasts IRL. I'm not one of those people.

 

I did, however, like the butt CBBE Slim had amongst some other shapes.

 

Also, bringing up the whole BodySlide/Outfit Studio part that CBBE has is irrelevant to the discussion. We should be talking about the basic CBBE vs the basic UNP for this "discussion" to have any real value. If UNP had more support then maybe BodySlide/Outfit Studio would have ended up being made for UNP (the current BodySlide for UNP doesn't compare to CBBE's at all, imho). If both bodies would have the same tools, then I bet your ass UNP would be the leading body, simply because you'd be able to create any body CBBE BodySlide can make and more, including basic CBBE itself and then perhaps even with some of its quirks ironed out ALL depending on how someone's made it.

 

I, for example, would make it look just like CBBE Slim with the breasts looking better and some minor changes to the hips/pelvis/stomach area.

 

The reason I said "discussion" just now is because I feel there can be no real discussion when it comes down to body mods. It's so dependent on taste that despite facts being given for and against each body, it remains a purely subjective view, because of what people appreciate in a virtual female body.

[zupra]

What is the best way to swap between different body mods? What should i back up if i want to revert back to the old one and not lose anything?

[absoltekk]

I like CBBE-based bodies because I mostly play beast races and CBBE generally has the most support for them. For standard races I generally like UNP-based bodies better though

[Liquidpinky]

More vertices doesn't always mean better. It sometimes means UNOPTIMIZED.

 

Fixed.

 

Depends how they are used.