Keep getting ctd's

[Deceiveddx]

Hey, i switched from NMM to MO today, watched a few of gophers videos on MO and now i kinda understand it, i installed my mods back

(bit less then before, but still many.) But i keep getting ctd's, 

 

I've installed meh321's crash fix mod, i've got enboost running and i've used FNIS (6.3 XL version) to generate new animations & stuff for the mods that require it.

 

I'm not that good at detecting conflicts / compatibilities with mods and im not that sure on how to fix them so thats my main problem i guess, My rig is an i5 3570k asus strix 960 4gb and 8gb's of ram and the enb im running is Bleak.

 

Here's my mod order / list, couldn't get modwat.ch to work so this will have to do i guess :/ http://pastebin.com/pnKv42q3

 

Thanks on ahead, and sorry for bad formatting, not used to forums.

[Deceiveddx]

Edit; the ctd occurs when i try to start a new game, im using alternative start so i start in a prison cell if that helps.

[Versh]

Load order problem, consider that in MO the left panel is important as the right panel.

 

The MO create a "fake folder" where the files in the left panel get placed in the order of the panel itself, so you have to keep in order also that.

 

Best practices is to regoup the mod by functions like:

 

TextureMods

-a

-b

-c

Game mechanics

-d

-e

-f

Etc.

 

So you could debug easily

[Deceiveddx]

Load order problem, consider that in MO the left panel is important as the right panel.

 

The MO create a "fake folder" where the files in the left panel get placed in the order of the panel itself, so you have to keep in order also that.

 

Best practices is to regoup the mod by functions like:

 

TextureMods

-a

-b

-c

Game mechanics

-d

-e

-f

Etc.

 

So you could debug easily

https://gyazo.com/09d14858313c4d87f9fafe28fff4bf30 so which one is the "fake" one? Like should the left panel look like the right or which way? Also thanks for the help

 

Edit; tried letting LOOT organize my load order didn't help, thinking its a conflict of some sort, please someone help

[Versh]

No, you misunderstood me:

When you launch the game from MO it creates (rough semplification) a "fake Data folder" that the Game will read as Data folder.

 

The left tab contains all the single mod folder that will be considered in the 'Fake data folder'.

It start adding the first, then the second, etc.

So if the *Mod1* has a file named XYZ and *Mod2* has another files named the same way the 'fake folder' will contain the file from *Mod2*

 

The right list is the Load order, it tells to the game which priority has which mod, and in what order modifies the games records.

 

 

Simply you shouldn't install mods like throwing all in the bucket and start the game, or you'll always CTD at some point.

 

[Deceiveddx]

No, you misunderstood me:

When you launch the game from MO it creates (rough semplification) a "fake Data folder" that the Game will read as Data folder.

 

The left tab contains all the single mod folder that will be considered in the 'Fake data folder'.

It start adding the first, then the second, etc.

So if the *Mod1* has a file named XYZ and *Mod2* has another files named the same way the 'fake folder' will contain the file from *Mod2*

 

The right list is the Load order, it tells to the game which priority has which mod, and in what order modifies the games records.

 

 

Simply you shouldn't install mods like throwing all in the bucket and start the game, or you'll always CTD at some point.

Alright, my mistake then :/ you got any idea how to fix it then? I've sorted the load orders, with LOOT and now im running out of ideas, Sorry im not that good at this ^^¨

[Versh]

LOOT isn't a panacea, especially for LL mods.

 

Put order in the right panel

[Loller99]

I jump in the discussion, because i have a similar problem...How to know the correct order, besides using LOOT? And how to find and solve conflicts between mods?

[Comrade Isbariya]

I jump in the discussion, because i have a similar problem...How to know the correct order, besides using LOOT? And how to find and solve conflicts between mods?

A good start is to stay informed about what you actually try to install. Reading a mods description page carefully and examining the rar/zip archive's folder structure it comes with often helps a lot to understand what a mod does, how and why. 

 

Then, as mentioned above, keep your mods 'grouped', that saves a lot of time, especially if you have to track one mod down. 

 

Then, if you know what your mods do exactly, you'll easily be able to tell if a new one overwrites parts of a mod you already have or not. If it does, and if this is intended, you would logically load it after the mod you already had. 

 

There are mods out there that need to be patched in order to function correctly with other certain mods enabled. Patches off course, need to be loaded after the mod you are attempting to patch. 

LOOT sometimes puts the mod on top of your load order and the patch somewhere to the end. Which is not only unnecessary but untidy. >.< You'd rather place the patch right after the mod to be patched yourself. 

 

LOOT generally seems to organize mods that do not conflict with anything alphabetically. Maybe you can turn that off, I never checked that, but that's quite unnecessary too imho. 

 

Well these are just my little tips on how to figure out load orders by yourself. My game runs like a charm and I'm not even using a modmanager at all. And I hardly use LOOT because it screws up my load order pretty much. (and places a CERTAIN mod on TOP of my load order where it does not work for heaven's sake, and I always have to put it all the way down to load last... >.<)

And before you get me wrong: I'm not saying that MO or LOOT are bad, it's the least you can do if you don't know what you're doing, I'm just saying you shouldn't always trust algorythms and math functions blindly.  

[Loller99]

Thank you for your suggestions! I am doing a fresh reinstall, this time i will use MOD ORGANIZER and will carefully follow your advices!
How to check which mods are in conflict with other mods, though? And how to solve the problem? Is it just a load order problem? Because in my last game installation, i think that was the problem, but i never managed to find out what was wrong..

[Comrade Isbariya]

Thank you for your suggestions! I am doing a fresh reinstall, this time i will use MOD ORGANIZER and will carefully follow your advices!

How to check which mods are in conflict with other mods, though? And how to solve the problem? Is it just a load order problem? Because in my last game installation, i think that was the problem, but i never managed to find out what was wrong..

 

You can always use LOOT to check for conflicts. Also, LOOT itself informs you about possible conflicts or things you might have overseen. (For example if you use mod A, which... lets say it adds a follower to your game. Then you get mod B, which adds the same follower to your game, but on top of that adds armor for that follower and maybe some more stuff or a second follower, whatever. Usually, you would disable the esp file of mod A, and would only use the esp file of mod B from then on. But sometimes you might just oversee stuff like that and keep using both esp files, which you shouldn't. LOOT easily detects such errors and notices you to disable mod A, given that your master list is up to date (and maybe the mot author adding that notice, but I'm not sure about that ) Anyway most mods have these notices if they are needed) 

 

Sometimes it's something like mentioned above, sometimes it is the load order due to what a mod overwrites and how. For example, using mod A, which adds a new armor to the game, plus mod B, which adds changes to that certain armor. You'd add conflicts, if you'd load mod B before mod A, because mod B would point to mod A, which, for mod B wasn't even there if it loads after it. If you place them in the right order, mod B, which points to mod A will detect it, and you're fine. 

 

And sometimes it's just mods that (partially or fully) try to attempt the same thing. For example, using mod A, which edits several cells by adding or changing their lighting, and using mod B, which does exactly the same, but may be considered the better looking one. Then you have 2 mods that alter your cells, and that possibly leads to crashes, and odd looking cells, so you'd have to get rid of one of them, using only the one you like best. 

Same goes for some mods that add the same kind of armor, just with different stats, one per esp - you'd have to pick ONE of them, as using two of them would conflict, if the mods page doesn't say otherwise. (because the author may have made it so that you could use them together) 

 

And last but not least, another very important thing: Your particular load order is stored in your actual savegame, too, as well as tons of other information. Try not to change your load order mid game, if you are not forced to! Also try not to add mods mid game, nor remove them. (off course you can always do that, but chances are that you add conflicts or, by uninstalling a mod, leave unused scripts and other parts in your savegame. And savegames can be very unforgiving, even if you always clean them with a savegame cleaning tool. 

Adding armor mods mid game usually isn't a big deal. Even followers should work, as long as they're stand alone and don't mess with your texture/body replacers. 

 

If you change your load order mid game, it could happen that your savegame won't load on your first, second or third attempt, after saving again the new order should be assigned to it though. 

 

And finally... as you've decided to reinstall everything anyway: You may want to have a look at the guide I linked in my signature. The guy who made it is a genius. It helped me a lot. 

 

EDIT: Almost forgot, if you think you did everything fine, and experience crashes in certain areas (or cells) and nowhere else but there, you can always use TES5Edit to show which mods actually alter that particular cell, to narrow down the mods that could possibly be the cause for your crashes. If you don't know how to use TES5Edit, there are several good guides on the net, and it's not that complicated as it sounds/looks like if you got used to it.  

[Loller99]

Ok, i understood everything, thanks a lot! Your help is being precious!

Just one more question.....i am 100% positive that my previous crashes were caused by conflicts (or at least, that's what it seemed to me from the papyrus log i posted in the other thread), but not Tes5Edit nor LOOT warned about conflicts....how to identify them, in that case?

[Comrade Isbariya]

I don't know what the papyrus log said, but it uses to give a lot of errors that you can simply ignore. I'm not an expert if it comes to all the papyrus stuff, all I can do is reading what it says and try to narrow the problem down to either one of the errors it gives or none of them. 

 

Sometimes corrupted mod files can cause crashes too. Faulty meshes / textures and stuff, although every other program says that you're fine. Or you may be missing a file, for whatever reason, or you updated a mod that you would have to clean your game from before updating, and just didn't do that before and some old parts conflict...

 

Sadly, there can be several reasons for crashes >.< That's why it's always good to check the mods you installed, before installing a bunch more, otherwise you only lose track of what you did and which mod could be the culprit.

 

You can even produce crashes by messing around with your ini files. LOOT wouldn't tell you what you did wrong in that case.   

 

[Versh]

There are various type of "conflict" and only some of them give problems:

 

For example, Tecnically a "conflict" is every time that two or more mods modify the same files, so, for example, even the Compatibility Patch generate a "conflict" but obviously they're harmless (most of the times)

 

A 'real' conflict is when you install two mods that does very different things on the same 'element'

for example:

you want to use "Frostfall" (hypotermia mod) and another mod that turn Skyrim in a tropical land (minor conflict, harmless but strange)

or you want to use two different mod that trigger a different scenario on the Player Character death (like SL defeat and Death alternative BEFORE they were patched)

 

 

 

As said by Isbariya the MOST important thing is to know what are you installing and READ the mod descriptions (also using a bit of good sense and experience)

Modding isn't 'adding stuff' like go shopping at the market (as you noticed by the CTD)

 

 

 

Anyway, speaking of Mod Organizer:

For beginning is the best choice because it doesn't mess with your vanilla Skyrim install, so you actually don't need to reinstall except for rare issues

 

The right tab, as said, is all the things that will be coinsidered in your Data folder when you start the game with MO, they're actually separate folders stored in your HD (right click 'Open in explore')

If you double click (or click on 'Information') you'll see a panel where you'll fine other info about that folder.

 

To know which file get overwritten or overwhrite what check the tab "Conflict" [As said: not all conflic are dangerous], this way you'll get the idea of which files are accessed by different mods, and this way you could decide which mod goes after and which before.

 

 

As Roughly general ideas: when two or more mod access the same SCRIPT you'll probably have a problem that will cause a CTD/Errors (but this isn't an absolute statement)

[Comrade Isbariya]

Modding isn't 'adding stuff' like go shopping at the market 

 

That should be a signature.

 

And the first sentence of any modding guide out there.

 

There are still too many people who mod their games exactly like that. AND they leave their bills at the shops. And once they get home and notice that some of the stuff they shopped doesn't even fit they already forgot where they got it from and are unable to exchange it.  

[Deceiveddx]

Alright, so i got my game working yesterday because i deactivated a mod called RDO (Relationship Dialogue Overhaul) because i felt like it had too many compatibility patches (Which i've installed for the according mods i've got.)

 

Game worked fine today too, but i decided to get greedy and try to fix the mod overall to try to get it to work.

 

And i did to my own suprise, then i remembered some more mods from my last modlist like some archery mods and such and i downloaded them,

started the game and i get a error that says something about "footLK" and i looked around the webs and found out it has something to do with FNIS and my Skeleton mod (XPMSE.)

 

And i have no idea how to fix this or if its the mods that i downloaded conflicting with other mods, and thanks for keeping this thread alive, you're helping my mod understanding well

 

Edit; grammar fixes & formatting

[Versh]

 

Modding isn't 'adding stuff' like go shopping at the market 

 

That should be a signature.

 

And the first sentence of any modding guide out there.

 

There are still too many people who mod their games exactly like that. AND they leave their bills at the shops. And once they get home and notice that some of the stuff they shopped doesn't even fit they already forgot where they got it from and are unable to exchange it.  

 

 

I was one of them XD

 

At my zenith I had to Start the game twice, load a Kick save and THEN avoid to do various things playing and MAYBE I could play for 20 min without CTD, it was like a vodoo ritual every time

 

It's actually surprising how Skyrim could be stable if treated good.

[Comrade Isbariya]

Alright, so i got my game working yesterday because i deactivated a mod called RDO (Relationship Dialogue Overhaul) because i felt like it had too many compatibility patches (Which i've installed for the according mods i've got.)

 

Game worked fine today too, but i decided to get greedy and try to fix the mod overall to try to get it to work.

 

And i did to my own suprise, then i remembered some more mods from my last modlist like some archery mods and such and i downloaded them,

started the game and i get a error that says something about "footLK" and i looked around the webs and found out it has something to do with FNIS and my Skeleton mod (XPMSE.)

 

And i have no idea how to fix this or if its the mods that i downloaded conflicting with other mods, and thanks for keeping this thread alive, you're helping my mod understanding well

 

Edit; grammar fixes & formatting

 

Just go start a new game, save as soon as you can in a save area, preferably an interior cell, as it loads way faster, and load that save prior to your most recent savegame, and the FootIK thing is gone for good.  

 

 

I was one of them XD

 

 

At my zenith I had to Start the game twice, load a Kick save and THEN avoid to do various things playing and MAYBE I could play for 20 min without CTD, it was like a vodoo ritual every time

 

It's actually surprising how Skyrim could be stable if treated good.

 

 

I used to be like that when I started playing Oblivion, too. I spent a whole night on the nexus downloading all and everything that caught my attention (on a crappy not even 1k DSL connection, because back then everything faster wasn't effortable!) because downloading at daytime would have made my family kill me because: STFU I'm lagging! 

 

And then I installed everything, just throwing it into my data folder carelessly. Wasn't funny to end up CTD'ing every five minutes, and later even on startup. That was when I came to think that it must have been my fault, so I reinstalled everything and got OBMM first, and actually got interested in what I was doing to the game in the first place. My Oblivion is (after another reinstall not long ago) just as stable as my Skyrim is. And if I read some of the threads on here I really wonder how I could manage that - My Skyrim is highly modded, very scriptheavy and lacking a modmanager. Yet it still runs perfectly. I don't even dare to touch it anymore. (but yeah that's why I have 2HDDs and 2 Skyrim installations. One for testing and one for playing. xD) 

 

 

 

[Deceiveddx]

Alright let me try that! Will edit in about 10 minutes to see how it'll go

 

Edit; Got to do my character and roam around in the spawn location of Alternate Start and crashed sadly, no footLK error though! So now it's just something else!

[Loller99]

Thank you all very much for the answers! This time i am gonna do things extra carefully, starting with watching tutorial on how mod organizing works, to have at least a slight knowledge of what to do!

[Deceiveddx]

Thank you all very much for the answers! This time i am gonna do things extra carefully, starting with watching tutorial on how mod organizing works, to have at least a slight knowledge of what to do!

Have you made any process on getting your skyrim to work? haha

[Deceiveddx]

Edit! Got modwat.ch working and here it is fully, if there are errors please point them out! http://www.modwat.ch/u/Deceive

[Loller99]

Not yet! I just finished watching the mod organizer video tutorial, i will start installing mods soon!

speaking of which.....a doubt occurred to me: if i install scripted mods (such as sexlab, and the sort, for example), will i have to put the skse plugin files in the plugin folder in my Skyrim/data directory? Or i will just leave MO handle it?

[Versh]

Personally I set the base SKSE Files on the main directory then I create a zip file only for the files that goes in the Data folder and add it as a mod with mod organizer.

[Loller99]

Personally I set the base SKSE Files on the main directory then I create a zip file only for the files that goes in the Data folder and add it as a mod with mod organizer.

 

Ah, that's a nice idea, thanks!