HKXPack/HKXAnim - Animations in FO4

pipdude · July 17, 2016

So, adding new animations is now possible through CK without then nees for FNIS and stuff, right? if so, cool.

That's what it looks like. Though, I haven't seen a complete mod using that new system yet. So, there could be a hitch in there somewhere.

Sounds like you got a test flow worked out. Cool.

Okay thank you guys. I was thinking about new modded weapons and I do not know why it never occurred to me that adding new animations for new weapons would require creating new animation sets altogether... This changes a lot about what I was thinking, because with how weapon mods are now, mostly with rifle that use the SMG animations, they couldn't have a replacement without screwing up the regular SMG animations. So the only way would be to create all new animation sets for weapons, which I have no idea about, I guess that would require linking the hkx files to the nifs? I'm new to modding so I am not sure on how the animations part works.

Anyway thanks for the info.

I think that what you're wanting to do is most likely possible. But, I'm pretty sure that it will be a bit more involved than making a simple looping animation. Seems like it would need to be set up for various gun usage events (reloading, aiming, firing, etc.) and sounds.

WhippinGirl · July 17, 2016

Awesome. Yeah, I will write a little bit more detailed guide later, but for now this will do... Maybe try it out with Maya as well... Hm, can anyone describe to me steps to test animation in the game myself? So I don't bother you guys with testing each one In skyrim I remember I was just replacing the main idle loop animation, that was okay... It would be great if I could replace multiple animations at once and test them one after another through console like garg did.

Few more questions to answer

There is also concern about how to add new skeletons, right?

And is there a separate male and female skeletons in the game?

Here I used JoshNZ's scene, it already had a skeleton and mesh inside. But where did he get it? It has a CBBE mesh inside. Did he get it from CBBE generator app, or did he rip it from the game? How do I import skeleton and mesh? This will be needed to work with any other future skeleton.

====

But still, Dexes, don't stop developing your tool. My only worry concerning it is whether you'd be able to replicate all the required features or not... Like animation notifies, I remember they used them a lot in Skyrim. Generally animation notifies are used for ALOT of stuff in gamedev, it is basically the way to call any game function at a given animation frame. Which includes:

- sounds (footsteps for example)

- effects (dust from footsteps, particles spawning at a given socket\locator\helper object)

- damage triggering

- decapitation ("decapitate" notify in Skyrim worked in death animation, i spent weeks playing with it )

ShadeAnimator, you just became my favorite person on this site! And if you can make it work in Maya, you'll be even more favorite.

By the way, I have HCT, but it keeps crashing when I try to export. Did you run into any problems like that when you were getting this to work? I'm on Windows 10 64-bit with Max 2014 (and Maya 2014, both 64-bit). If not, I'll find help elsewhere. I don't want to distract you from the main problem at hand. Thank you so much for your work!

*ShadeAnimator* · July 17, 2016

I opened a Git repo with all the files I use, will try to keep it updated, and probably will also add rigs and tutorial later, once I'm confident in the workflow.

Right now it has an updated rig.txt file, with corrected right collarbone, and pipboy bones, and some extras. I tried adding fingers and twist bones, but then character's arms were broken O_O So it's not enough to just copy the order in which joints are defined in skeleton.hkx file, there is something more to it.

I'll research it more. Maybe we need to create all the missing bones, like weapon bones, and copy skeleton.hkx contents 1to1 to make it work perfectly. But then we'd have to find a files which contains initial weapon and helper bones positions, I don't know where that is. Otherwise weapons and such will shift during custom animations. Right now they are just ignored I guess.

https://github.com/ShadeAnimator/ShadeAnimator_Fallout4_AnimationKit

ShadeAnimator, you just became my favorite person on this site! And if you can make it work in Maya, you'll be even more favorite.

By the way, I have HCT, but it keeps crashing when I try to export. Did you run into any problems like that when you were getting this to work? I'm on Windows 10 64-bit with Max 2014 (and Maya 2014, both 64-bit). If not, I'll find help elsewhere. I don't want to distract you from the main problem at hand. Thank you so much for your work!

Hah, thanks.

Well, I'd love to use it in Maya too. I'll try that some time later. To make it work in Maya we first need to find NifTools plugin for it, the latest one, which supports animations preferably. From what i've seen in niftools wiki (if it is even updated info) - the most advanced plugin is Max's though...

But it should be really simple to animate in Maya and then export FBX with joints only, and import it into max scene (the one with the skeleton in it) with "Update" mode, it will just add animation on existing objects in Max's scene. You'll have to have both, but at least you can animate in maya.

I'd personally prefer maya as well, because it is very easy to make plugin-grade scripts for.

In maya you can do things with Python scripting which are only possible through C++ in Max. Or some very advanced MaxScript scripting, but it is still very limited and "obese" compared to python.

But I understand that most modellers work in max... while animators in maya... So I'm not sure if NifTool guys should focus on Maya plugin or not. I'd love them to, and I'd love to move all FO4 modding animation pipeline there, it'd be way easier, but we may have to stick with max.

*ousnius* · July 17, 2016

I opened a Git repo with all the files I use, will try to keep it updated, and probably will also add rigs and tutorial later, once I'm confident in the workflow.

Right now it has an updated rig.txt file, with corrected right collarbone, and pipboy bones, and some extras. I tried adding fingers and twist bones, but then character's arms were broken O_O So it's not enough to just copy the order in which joints are defined in skeleton.hkx file, there is something more to it.

I'll research it more. Maybe we need to create all the missing bones, like weapon bones, and copy skeleton.hkx contents 1to1 to make it work perfectly. But then we'd have to find a files which contains initial weapon and helper bones positions, I don't know where that is. Otherwise weapons and such will shift during custom animations. Right now they are just ignored I guess.

https://github.com/ShadeAnimator/ShadeAnimator_Fallout4_AnimationKit

Hey, do you think you can remove the FemaleBody.nif from GitHub?

I don't like taking files from everyone and just putting them somewhere.

*ShadeAnimator* · July 17, 2016

I can, however this is not for modding, it's files and tools required to make animations. I only put them there so that an animator can just grab everything he needs from one place. Because I spent a few days collecting all this stuff from different places, going a breadcrumb trail, and I don't think it's very effective.

Making a single guide with links to different resourses is also not a good idea, because I've seen such guides , 90% of the time all those links are dead.

So... I guess I can replace it with vanilla one. But why can't I have CBBE's one there? As far as I remember, Skyrim's max animation files had CBBE body inside. Just not as a nif file, but a max one.

I was thinkin that I'll put all the working files in there, and leave a readme file or something, with links to the sources of those files, so people get get updated version if they need, while having all the proved to be working files in one place.

EDIT

Okay, replaced it with vanilla one.

*ShadeAnimator* · July 18, 2016

Just updated git again. Mostly ReadMe.txt file, which I use to write the guide... I'm not sure where I should better write it to make it easily accessible and up-to-date for everyone to read? Options are: git, some page here, some page on nexus, google docs, or something?

I tried to write all the steps with as much details as I could think of, feel free to check it out and correct me or suggest rephrasing or anything I was trying to make this guide simple and easy to understand, at least for someone with some 3ds max rigging and animation knowledge.

Also updated 3ds max scenes with new meshes, arms, head, hair, some of them at least.

Rig.max file is there now, but there is no rig in it yet. I will probably make at least CAT rig version, maybe Biped rig. Not sure about custom rig yet, I'd prefer it in Maya

July 18, 2016

Just updated git again. Mostly ReadMe.txt file, which I use to write the guide... I'm not sure where I should better write it to make it easily accessible and up-to-date for everyone to read? Options are: git, some page here, some page on nexus, google docs, or something?

I tried to write all the steps with as much details as I could think of, feel free to check it out and correct me or suggest rephrasing or anything I was trying to make this guide simple and easy to understand, at least for someone with some 3ds max rigging and animation knowledge.

Also updated 3ds max scenes with new meshes, arms, head, hair, some of them at least.

Rig.max file is there now, but there is no rig in it yet. I will probably make at least CAT rig version, maybe Biped rig. Not sure about custom rig yet, I'd prefer it in Maya

Hello.

You can create a development topic somewhere here (maybe close to this one.)

Do 3 or 4 start posts, just to reserve space, and then edit the first posts when you have updates, and let the other posts free to have discussion.

In case you need help to create the first 4 posts (it is tricky because subsequent posts will be automatically merged) I can provide help. But we need to be really synchronized in doing it.

A second option is to use the "Wiki" page of GitHub. But for sure the visibility will be way lower.

in case you want to open the topic, PM me for do the creation of first posts in a synchro way (you do the first, I do the second, you 3rd, me 4th, etc until you have 4 posts, then I will delete my 4 posts to let you have them all together.)

*ShadeAnimator* · July 18, 2016

Hello.

You can create a development topic somewhere here (maybe close to this one.)

Do 3 or 4 start posts, just to reserve space, and then edit the first posts when you have updates, and let the other posts free to have discussion.

In case you need help to create the first 4 posts (it is tricky because subsequent posts will be automatically merged) I can provide help. But we need to be really synchronized in doing it.

A second option is to use the "Wiki" page of GitHub. But for sure the visibility will be way lower.

in case you want to open the topic, PM me for do the creation of first posts in a synchro way (you do the first, I do the second, you 3rd, me 4th, etc until you have 4 posts, then I will delete my 4 posts to let you have them all together.)

Could be a good idea, but I think we should better keep 1 animation thread, and it should be this one? Or this one is more about HKXPack\HKXAnim, and I can create a more general one. Either way, we better keep all this stuff in one place. I think it's important to let people easily find everything they nieed, without spending days walking trails of breadcrumbs as i mentioned before.

July 18, 2016

This thread is good, and it is pinned.

But it is for the specific part Dex is doing about HKXPack/HKXAnim.

A general thread dedicated to the actual animations, can be really useful. They are not exactly the same thread.

One is for a tool to decode/recode. The other (yours) is more on the animations themselves (rigging, skeletons, import/export plugins, etc.)

*ShadeAnimator* · July 18, 2016

I suggest moving animation-related and not hkxpack related discusstions to this thread from now on: http://www.loverslab.com/topic/64567-fallout-4-animation-modding-for-modders-and-animators/?p=1616247

Would be nice if it was pinned too ^^

leydrewle · July 18, 2016

so what is the estimated amount of time that this sexout will be in beta stage ?

SexOut? It will never be out.

The official name is SexTec and people are working on it.

But just be patient.

And check here if you like: SexTec container thread.

ah alright i am glad to hear and patience is one thing that i am good at :3

*DexesTTP* · July 18, 2016

I suggest moving animation-related and not hkxpack related discusstions to this thread from now on: http://www.loverslab.com/topic/64567-fallout-4-animation-modding-for-modders-and-animators/?p=1616247

Would be nice if it was pinned too ^^

Nice !

I replaced your quote for a link to this topic in the opening post, just in case.

pipdude · July 19, 2016

Just updated git again. Mostly ReadMe.txt file, which I use to write the guide... I'm not sure where I should better write it to make it easily accessible and up-to-date for everyone to read? Options are: git, some page here, some page on nexus, google docs, or something?

I tried to write all the steps with as much details as I could think of, feel free to check it out and correct me or suggest rephrasing or anything I was trying to make this guide simple and easy to understand, at least for someone with some 3ds max rigging and animation knowledge.

Also updated 3ds max scenes with new meshes, arms, head, hair, some of them at least.

Rig.max file is there now, but there is no rig in it yet. I will probably make at least CAT rig version, maybe Biped rig. Not sure about custom rig yet, I'd prefer it in Maya

Very cool. Going to check it out as soon as I can fight away enough free time.

I think that a thread here would be great. But, also include the complete guide with the files to make it simpler to share everything needed from anywhere.

MaikCG · July 19, 2016

Attached is the bone file I am used to making pose/animation since last December. hope it's helpful to you.

The bone order is the same as one in skeleton.hkx. (you can open the hkx file in text editor, searching the bone names). I thinks this bone file is correct with confidence. I had done many dance animation with that (usually porting some Skyrim dance to Fallout4)

I used you rig bones file. Names are case sensitive?

Something wrong :lol:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3a5A01rNuQ

*ShadeAnimator* · July 19, 2016

I don't know if they are case sensitive or not actually, probably yes. Though I also stumbled upon a problem, that in hkx and nif skeleton files they are named differently.

Hah, well, try another rig.txt file, from my kit, there are two, my version and JoshNZs.

Finding the right combination and order of joints is a tricky thing, yeah. Still a wip. But hopefully we'll crack it soon Join the fight.

MaikCG · July 19, 2016

Yeah, bones names and their order - from skeleton.hkx. ~~Probably need to add the missing bones in the skeleton, so it was not for them float tracks. To understand exactly where...~~ I did biped/motionbulder/maya rigs and try to test it.

So easy. Need weapons bones in the rig.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsfsWb5gf-U

*DexesTTP* · July 19, 2016

Something wrong

Well, I see nothing wrong with this animation...

Oh, this is the armbinder running one ? Cool !

Also, about the float tracks. What are they for ? I can't really find data about float tracks in the Collada files, so although I have a place to put them in I just ignore them for now.

(By the way, if you guys create some basic test anims or other edge case animations that could be interesting test-wise for the converter, feel free to PM them to me in .dae format I'm never against new material to study ^^ )

Also, I'm not sure I ever told you, so thank you so much ShadeAnimator for the work you did.

*ShadeAnimator* · July 19, 2016

Yeah, bones names and their order - from skeleton.hkx. ~~Probably need to add the missing bones in the skeleton, so it was not for them float tracks. To understand exactly where...~~ I did biped/motionbulder/maya rigs and try to test it.

So easy. Need weapons bones in the rig.

Кодсворт, really? God... Hate when they translate names.

Yeah, I was going to try adding those missing bones soon, however I'm not sure if thats a good idea to just add them. Because, for exmaple, if you're talking about Weapon bones, if we just add them randomly somewhere in the space or at the origin, then on animation trigger they will just float I think... It would be much better to actually find a skeleton file which contains them, if that is at all possible, of course.

MaikCG · July 19, 2016

Also, about the float tracks. What are they for ? I can't really find data about float tracks in the Collada files, so although I have a place to put them in I just ignore them for now.

I use HCT exporter, if no found bones from list he created "float" track instead "transform" track. I don't know what kind.

What are the views "WeaponIKTargetL" - bone at left hand (weapon in left hand) for right hand IK or this bone at right hand and it is intended to align the left hand IK?

Open \data\Meshes\Weapons\10mmPistol\10MMPistol.nif and here they are, these bones, weapon bone as root.

Only

WeaponIKTargetL

WeaponIKTargetR

WeaponIKTargetLMirror

WeaponIKTargetRMirror

raise questions..

*ShadeAnimator* · July 19, 2016

Something wrong

Well, I see nothing wrong with this animation...

Oh, this is the armbinder running one ? Cool !

Also, about the float tracks. What are they for ? I can't really find data about float tracks in the Collada files, so although I have a place to put them in I just ignore them for now.

(By the way, if you guys create some basic test anims or other edge case animations that could be interesting test-wise for the converter, feel free to PM them to me in .dae format I'm never against new material to study ^^ )

Also, I'm not sure I ever told you, so thank you so much ShadeAnimator for the work you did.

Hey, thanks. I just really want to replay Fallout 4 as soon as possible, playing as either some cute sexy sneaky girl, or some male murder and rape machine, with all the DLCs and seom major sex mods, with slavery and defeat options, and vanilla-friendly nude models. Thats my fantasy right now Hope to make it a reality. I'd even dig into the editor and papyrus, but don't have time for that with work and life and so on. But working with animations is much easier for me, since I earn money with that.

Also, about the float tracks. What are they for ? I can't really find data about float tracks in the Collada files, so although I have a place to put them in I just ignore them for now.

I use HCT exporter, if no found bones from list he created "float" track instead "transform" track. I don't know what kind.

What are the views "WeaponIKTargetL" - bone at left hand (weapon in left hand) for right hand IK or this bone at right hand and it is intended to align the left hand IK?

I think it is an IK target for left hand to hold the weapon, but I am not sure yet, this is the logic usually used in other pipelines i worked with, and the one i'd go with. But... Bethesda, who knows.

*ShadeAnimator* · July 19, 2016

Hm, I just found another interesting thing.

nif files with meshes (like FemaleBody.nif) contain information about all the joints and their positions, but not the hierarchy.

This information may be useful. Need to write it down somehwer or remember

And bad information - there is separate files for skeleton with facebones for male and female =\

Here is the difference, not much, but may require to create separate rigs and animations...

However, i don't know how facial animations fork in Fallout4 and skyrim, are they separate, or embeded into body animations? If separate that'd be perfect.

July 19, 2016

And bad information - there is separate files for skeleton with facebones for male and female =\

Ugh!

Let's hope they have the same bones (I doubt, but let's hope.)

MaikCG · July 19, 2016

I think the difference in men's and women face only a small offset and there is no difference for create animations for the body

*Vioxsis* · July 19, 2016

Aren't the 'face bones' and *_skin bones (found in the skeleton) used for morphing the body/face when you create you character?

*ousnius* · July 19, 2016

Aren't the 'face bones' and *_skin bones (found in the skeleton) used for morphing the body/face when you create you character?

_skin bones of the body are used for scaling and moving body parts for the weight system they added with FO4.

They should NOT be animated. The parents of those bones are the ones that actually get animated.

Face Bones are used only during character creation.

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HKXPack/HKXAnim - Animations in FO4

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