Naturalistic HDT

[Bazinga]

No, I didn't read that until just now.

I simply had blocky skin after using Ordenator on my female body textures folder and finally noticed that all these skin texture mods keep the normal maps uncompressed.

Better late than never I guess. ^^

 

about that whole discussion regarding texture compression:

Can't say that I know enough about the subject to verify your arguments but that article that I linked in the old forum clearly states that compressed textures save VRAM.

I'm just speculating here but obviously the textures get loaded into the VRAM over PCI-E first which is much slower than the connection between VRAM and graphics chip. So in order to avoid a bottleneck there a lot of textures that are not needed for the frames shown next are dumped into VRAM too. And many of those will be called by the chip at some point and only then they get uncompressed. Or maybe the bottleneck is that too large amounts of data are filling up the VRAM - graphics chip connection bandwith because decompressing normally happens on the chip itself and not before? Beats me.

Also I read somewhere that there's a DX9 technology/command that allows you to use compressed images without ever uncompressing them. Has something to do with the texture compression algorithms and how they don't change some addressed or whatever.

... Here's the source. I don't exactly understand that gibberish but it sounds like DX9 can use compressed textures saved with the DXT1, 3 and 5 algorithms directly as long as the graphics card supports it.

 

But it should be quite easy to find out if uncompressed textures use up more VRAM, at least on a videocard with enough memory. There are tools to show VRAM usage ingame but I'm too lazy to install those (and except for normal maps I don't see anything wrong with compressed skin textures).

 

Recompressing textures that were already compressed before doesn't happen with Ordenator btw. The tool just skips them. Unless they had another compression algorithm applied. Dunno if there are more quality losses then but at least the file sizes don't indicate it (they are the same as if you compressed an uncompressed image).

 

edit:

I just found another reason to switch to SSE as soon as HDT is working there.

 

Ah shit, seems like I will have to rebuild my modded game from scratch soon. Because there already is sort of a HDT prototype.

Edited November 18, 2017 by Bazinga

[johnny2by4]

1 hour ago, Bazinga said:

edit:

I just found another reason to switch to SSE as soon as HDT is working there.

 

Ah shit, seems like I will have to rebuild my modded game from scratch soon. Because there already is sort of a HDT prototype.

its likely a while away.  as i (barely) understand it SSE will end up having to rely on HDT SMP since they can't port PE from 32bit to 64bit.  and right now SMP is in the 'confusing as hell' period that PE was in two years ago.

[inglorious_basterd]

22 hours ago, Bazinga said:

I don't exactly understand that gibberish but it sounds like DX9 can use compressed textures saved with the DXT1, 3 and 5 algorithms directly as long as the graphics card supports it.

Why yes, it means that the card offers hardware support through directX9 for the use of such compressed textures. In other words, it means the GPU understands the instructions how to decompress the texture and therefor doesn't need to hand this process off to the CPU. It doesn't mean that textures can be processed while still in their compressed format. In order to "shade" a textured object, the processing engine needs to access - and alter -  the RGBA value of each pixel it wants to process. And a compressed texture just doesn't offer up these values (before it gets decompressed), period.

 

To quote from one of the sources you linked yourself:

Quote

as the texture resides compressed on the graphics card, it has to get decompressed on the fly each time it gets accessed.

 

I will concede that compressed textures may provide performance advantages because in addition to the actual processing (shading), there are other things to be considered, like the almost countless (pre-)caches and buffers, both software-sided (game engine) and hardware-sided, the transport of the data back and forth between these buffers, and of course the transport of each texture from HDD to VRAM to begin with.

I really couldn't tell you the size of these buffers and whether or not they can be tweaked and optimized. But it seems clear to me that the "decompression on the fly each time [the texture] gets accessed" takes time and processing power which could be saved by using uncompressed textures that don't need to get decompressed, which OTOH is a lot more data to shuffle around, read and buffer. Which is the better compromise? I really don't know.

 

Of course performance is only one side of the coin - the other is quality.

Edited November 19, 2017 by inglorious_basterd

[Photonix]

Hey Master of Hdt XML collisions! In the past you did some files for HDT toys and a few for Komotors animations, I was wondering if you ever plan to do more collisions for mods like that? Like Hanimations or Estrus or more of Komotors?

[Bazinga]

Err thanks for the compliment but ... wrong thread? ;)

 

Anyway, since you already asked:

Estrus is a problem because I still don't know how to add collision boxes to animobject type meshes. At least if the bones in there aren't also part of the actor skeleton.

There are tons of bones in these Estrus meshes and none of them is in the XPMSE skeleton. So I don't think I can use them for HDT PE physics.

 

HAnimations are already included in HDT Sextoys.

 

And I'll definitely add more collisions for Komotor's animations, I just got distracted by other stuff lately.

 

If there are other animations that could use some HDT Sextoys support then just drop a hint in the thread of that mod and I'll look into it.

[Guest]

Would you please, give me a tip what might be the cause for this breast glitch: 

Spoiler

Butt jiggles correctly, and breasts are glitching when crouch.

[Photonix]

9 hours ago, Bazinga said:

Err thanks for the compliment but ... wrong thread? ;)

 

Anyway, since you already asked:

Estrus is a problem because I still don't know how to add collision boxes to animobject type meshes. At least if the bones in there aren't also part of the actor skeleton.

There are tons of bones in these Estrus meshes and none of them is in the XPMSE skeleton. So I don't think I can use them for HDT PE physics.

 

HAnimations are already included in HDT Sextoys.

 

And I'll definitely add more collisions for Komotor's animations, I just got distracted by other stuff lately.

 

If there are other animations that could use some HDT Sextoys support then just drop a hint in the thread of that mod and I'll look into it.

Ah sorry about posting in the wrong thread, thought this would be the right one, thanks for taking the time to reply either way! Btw Doesn't HAnimations have estrus like parts as well? There is a tentacle animation I think? Do those have collisions as well now then? 

[Bazinga]

1 hour ago, Photonix said:

Btw Doesn't HAnimations have estrus like parts as well? There is a tentacle animation I think? Do those have collisions as well now then? 

No, they don't. Same reasoning as for the Estrus animation. That's an animobject that goes through an animation loop without the character skeleton involved. And afaik HDT PE only uses the character skeleton to set up physics and collisions. The body mesh then just follows the skeleton movement and the boundary conditions you set up in the xml files, and it does that to the exact degree that was defined by the weight paints.

 

So as long as the animator just added an animobject with some additional bones to a character involved in a scene and these bones are "glued" to their parent bones (which are part of the skeleton) and follow their movement one to one thats something I can work with. Then I just add a collision box for that parent bone and do a little basic math and playing around with the values in Nifscope to calculate the offset.

But that doesn't work for additional bones that use animations on their own, like in this case. Because I can't use these bones themselves, they are not part of the skeleton.

 

4 hours ago, seahorse said:

Would you please, give me a tip what might be the cause for this breast glitch: 

  Reveal hidden contents

Butt jiggles correctly, and breasts are glitching when crouch.

Doesn't look familiar but then again the last time I had glitches like that with HDT PE was years ago.

Maybe a skeleton issue? You are using this here, right?

If yes try reinstalling it. And load it last unless you are using Beast HDT too then only let that mod overwrite it.

 

Another idea would be to rebuild the body meshes that you're using. Maybe you accidentially deleted some weight paints (can't really find a plausible scenario for that though).

Edited November 20, 2017 by Bazinga

[Guest]

I've already got this issue solved. Yes, the skeleton_female.nif  XP32 occured to be covered by one of the ancient ones.

Thank you for your quick reply. Next time I may wanna ask you about horse HDT schlong. I acidentaly found the new skeleton among your files. Is it intended to be used with HDT?

[Bazinga]

Well, with Beast HDT I added collisions to the horse schlongs if that's what you're asking. For that to work I had to edit their skeleton too.

So yeah, everything inside that Beast HDT mod is intended to be used just as it is. If you replace anything of it then HDT collisions for the creature associated with that file will stop working.

That includes overwriting Beast HDT with Realistic Ragdoll or with XPMSE. For example if you install the horse skeleton included in XPMSE (FOMod installer choice) and then load XPMSE after Beast HDT then horses won't have collisions because their XPMSE skeleton doesn't have schlong bones.

I took the XPMSE skeleton as a basis when I added these bones though so you don't have to worry that overwriting it breaks anything else.

Edited November 20, 2017 by Bazinga

[sta123]

tnx for your work. I've found 2 small bugs.

 

Malformed XML in ModuleConfig.xml caused an error in NMM. (The element 'plugin' has invalid child element 'typeDescriptor'. List of possible elements expected: 'files, conditionFlags'.) Corrected version for v3.68 attached.

 

In beast pack, your path Meshes\MoreNastyCritters\werewolfbeast does not match MNC's path of Meshes\MoreNastyCritters\werewolf.

ModuleConfig.xml

[Bazinga]

Nice, thank you.

 

I didn't even notice that the werewolf folder name was changed, because I prefer the SoS schlongs for werewolves.

 

And I hope that NMM error didn't abort the installation process but is just a rather harmless error message. It's the first time I hear about this issue, so thanks again, I'll change the moduleconfig.xml in the next version.

Edited November 22, 2017 by Bazinga

[gtcard]

is there any way to make the SL cum effect overlay apply to the inside walls of the chinese vagina in your preset?

[MayDayCray]

Hey Bazinga, could I still use your jiggle and sex toy presets if I went SMP?

[Bazinga]

1 hour ago, gtcard said:

is there any way to make the SL cum effect overlay apply to the inside walls of the chinese vagina in your preset?

Probably.

You would have to edit the cum textures (like the ones coming with Sexlab itself) and add some jizz to the same coordinates as the inner vagina that you have to add with TexBlend if you use the Chinese UUNP from my mod. That should do the trick.

 

...

So, any volunteers?

 

Well, I'll see if I can do it but I have my doubts. It will probably look weird if the cum stains aren't shaped to closely match the UV map.

 

29 minutes ago, Tankisking said:

Hey Bazinga, could I still use your jiggle and sex toy presets if I went SMP?

I don't think so, no. SMP and PE use completely different physics simulation systems (Bullet vs Havok) and collision shapes defined for one of them won't interact with the other. At least as far as I know.

So Sextoys won't work with SMP bodies.

 

It should be possible to make a HDT Sextoys version that's compatible with SMP though.

The important part is the script, which doesn't care what kind of physics are used. So if anyone wants to make that mod SMP compatible just go ahead, it's all yours. The only thing that needs to be replaced are the collision xmls. Or rather the havok object meshes? SMP puts the collision boxes directly inside the meshes instead of an external xml file afaik.

 

My jiggle presets might still work, but then you'd have to use both physics systems in parallel and I don't think you should do that. Cause I read something about the game getting very unstable then.

Edited November 24, 2017 by Bazinga

[MayDayCray]

28 minutes ago, Bazinga said:

Probably.

You would have to edit the cum textures (like the ones coming with Sexlab itself) and add some jizz to the inner vagina part of these textures (the one that you have to add with TexBlend if you use the Chinese UUNP from my mod). That should do the trick.

 

...

So, any volunteers?

 

Well, I'll see if I can do it but I have my doubts. It will probably look weird if the cum stains aren't shaped to closely match the UV map.

 

I don't think so, no. SMP and PE use completely different physics simulation systems (Bullet vs Havok) and collision shapes defined for one of them won't interact with the other. At least as far as I know.

So Sextoys won't work with SMP bodies.

 

It should be possible to make a HDT Sextoys version that's compatible with SMP though.

The important part is the script, which doesn't care what kind of physics are used. So if anyone wants to make that mod SMP compatible just go ahead, it's all yours. The only thing that needs to be replaced are the collision xmls. Or rather the havok object meshes? SMP puts the collision boxes directly inside the meshes instead of an external xml file afaik.

 

Jiggle presets might still work, but then you'd have to use both physics systems in parallel and I don't think you should do that. Cause I read something about the game getting very unstable then.

6

 

I won't be making the switch in that case.. thank you.

[Kingslayer101]

I like your mod, could you tell me how you made the puffy nipples? I tried to get them a low-weight character but it ended up going weird so I had to use the other Special body you have.

[Bazinga]

I didn't make them, that's a UUNP Special variant done by some Chinese modder(s).

The only thing I did was adding them as a body type choice ... and fixing the pussy colors/gloss ... and fixing the texture not getting loaded because fixing the aforementioned issue led to that one ... and fixing weight paints because they were all shit ... and removing gaps/clipping especially around the labia ... and smoothing out all the labia shapes on the different body presets because wtf did they do to make it all so wrinkled? 

I will never add another body type again, I promise. This was a lesson. ^^

 

So what UUNP body preset are you using that gives you weird nipples on weight 0?

Edited November 26, 2017 by Bazinga

[happy_polla]

@Bazinga

Your works amazing, Bazinga. Thank you so much for help us. 

[Sydney]

Thank you for this.

 

A couple of questions if I may:

 

What is the difference between Repaint and not repaint? What does VaginaFix_zap actually do? Rather, to zap or not to zap?

 

<edit>Thank you for your reply below. The post and several below it were most helpful! And thanks once again for this great mod! Finally collisions happen at the moment of impact, not a few cm in anticipation! </edit>

[Lugubrious0ne]

First of all, thanks for your wonderful, wonderful mod. Truly a work of art.

 

So, I have a question only slightly related to naturalistic HDT, but if Bazinga or anyone else on the thread can give me advice, I'd be very grateful!

 

I've followed all your instructions for batch building outfits to the NBB special body in Bodyslide, and gotten great results. However, the slight disadvantage of building every outfit to conform to the NBB body shape is that I can't seem to make use of any zap boxes the outfits have! Is there any way around this slight drawback? Can I build my outfits to the NBB shape, but still zap the skirts or whatever?

 

Thanks or any advice!

[Bazinga]

7 hours ago, Sydney said:

Thank you for this.

 

A couple of questions if I may:

 

What is the difference between Repaint and not repaint? What does VaginaFix_zap actually do? Rather, to zap or not to zap?

The VaginaFix zap slider removes an unnecessary skin fold inside the vagina. I think it doesn't really matter if it gets checked or not, at least in my last tests the weight paints seemed to be good enough so that the vagina doesn't clip through that skin fold underneath.

I didn't test it for collisions with really big stuff like horse or giant schlongs though.

 

and about the first part, if to repaint or not to repaint (... , that's the question here):

Plz read here.

46 minutes ago, Lugubrious0ne said:

First of all, thanks for your wonderful, wonderful mod. Truly a work of art.

 

So, I have a question only slightly related to naturalistic HDT, but if Bazinga or anyone else on the thread can give me advice, I'd be very grateful!

 

I've followed all your instructions for batch building outfits to the NBB special body in Bodyslide, and gotten great results. However, the slight disadvantage of building every outfit to conform to the NBB body shape is that I can't seem to make use of any zap boxes the outfits have! Is there any way around this slight drawback? Can I build my outfits to the NBB shape, but still zap the skirts or whatever?

 

Thanks or any advice!

Well, thank you for the compliment! 

 

about building these outfits:

If you want to activate zap sliders individually you probably shouldn't use the Batch Build function but build the outfits one by one.

 

And did I really write something about using Bodyslide to conform the outfits to an NBB shape?

Because it doesn't work like that, you select a body preset (in my case that would be UUNP - UNPBB because I like that shape) and then you either select individual outfits and build them or you select an outfit group and batch build the outfits in there.

The resulting armor most likely won't have my edited body inside (unless it's an armor that doesn't replace the main body slot) but standard UUNP HDT without the 3D vagina.

And without the repaint but that's okay I guess. Because you would expect reduced jiggling while wearing an armor anyway.

 

So building armors has nothing to do with my body edits and you get the same results as withhout this mod.

Only make sure that you don't have different weight paints on an armor and on the body inside the armor. That would lead to severe clipping issues.

That's why I offer that UUNP Piercings repaint package btw, overwrite the original UUNP Piercings mod with that and my repainted bodies and the UUNP Piercings are moving in sync again.

[Lugubrious0ne]

2 hours ago, Bazinga said:

And did I really write something about using Bodyslide to conform the outfits to an NBB shape?

Because it doesn't work like that, you select a body preset (in my case that would be UUNP - UNPBB because I like that shape) and then you either select individual outfits and build them or you select an outfit group and batch build the outfits in there.

The resulting armor most likely won't have my edited body inside (unless it's an armor that doesn't replace the main body slot) but standard UUNP HDT without the 3D vagina.

And without the repaint but that's okay I guess. Because you would expect reduced jiggling while wearing an armor anyway.

 

Well jeez. I'm not a great reader it seems. What I had taken from the bodyslide explanation in your main post (and probably misc. sources elsewhere) was that I had to keep "NBB - UUNP Special Repaint" in brackets under Outfit/Body, with the outfits I want to build to checked under groups, and then do the batch build. Or something would go horribly wrong, like having the wrong body in the armors. I am not a smart man. So, nothing should be different if I just keep the same preset, and build the outfits without the NBB body shape selected? 

 

Thanks for the quick response as well. Processing now. Only 1,300 sets to go...

[Reesewow]

29 minutes ago, Lugubrious0ne said:

Well jeez. I'm not a great reader it seems. What I had taken from the bodyslide explanation in your main post (and probably misc. sources elsewhere) was that I had to keep "NBB - UUNP Special Repaint" in brackets under Outfit/Body, with the outfits I want to build to checked under groups, and then do the batch build. Or something would go horribly wrong, like having the wrong body in the armors. I am not a smart man. So, nothing should be different if I just keep the same preset, and build the outfits without the NBB body shape selected? 

 

Thanks for the quick response as well. Processing now. Only 1,300 sets to go...

Might be easier to think of it this way - the naked body is really just another piece of chest armor, and should use the same preset as all of your other chest armor (or it will look weird when you unequip armor and the shape changes, same as if you build different armor sets to different body shapes). 

 

Any other chest armor will fully replace the body mesh.  This means that by default nothing about your armors should change by installing and building the naked body parts from this mod.  The body in the armors is provided by the armor itself, it simply uses the body textures you have installed so it usually looks similar, especially if built to the same preset.  Any armor that uses the chest slot will not have features like the working vagina, since it isn't using any of Naturalistic's meshes.

[Bazinga]

11 hours ago, Lugubrious0ne said:

Well jeez. I'm not a great reader it seems. What I had taken from the bodyslide explanation in your main post (and probably misc. sources elsewhere) was that I had to keep "NBB - UUNP Special Repaint" in brackets under Outfit/Body, with the outfits I want to build to checked under groups, and then do the batch build.

No, it's not you, it's more like I'm not a great writer it seems. ^^

I wrote this inside a spoiler in the mod description:

Quote

For rebuilding all this stuff first select the preset you had for the body (you better still know what you changed if you adjusted the sliders ^^).

That's technically not wrong but very easy to misinterpret. The emphasis there was on preset, not on body.

Guess I'll change that phrase on the next update, thanks.