[3ds Max] [Skyrim] Video: Animation Tutorial

[Dayelyte]

-Chuckle-

 

Hat tip for trying to learn the process

 

If everyone tried to learn animation, it would give them a new found respect for those who fight with it already.

It's a lot more work than most people realize to get a scene done that folks are happy with. 

 

The problem then is, once you have created a decent scene, you'll get bombarded with a tidal wave of requests

for Character X on Y, Position A vs B, solos, duo's, 3-ways, N-ways, etc. etc.  It never stops lol

 

There just aren't enough hours in the day to do them all ( unless you won the lotto somewhere along the way

and can just sit and animate 24/7 )

[Serithi]

B-but i haven't gotten any requests yet ;-;.

 

Then again i've only done static stuff so far, no actual animations.

[pornphile]

B-but i haven't gotten any requests yet ;-;.

 

Then again i've only done static stuff so far, no actual animations.

If you build it, they will come.

 

[llabsky]

Hey pornphile here's something interesting.

 

I've been smashing my head on the keyboard trying to figure out this problem about the cow animation. You remember when I asked you about giants weapon and you helped me by telling me I needed to make a dummy named "Weapon"

http://www.loverslab.com/topic/39996-3ds-max-skyrim-video-animation-tutorial/?p=1281236

 

Well the same error occurred for cows Spine1 and Spine2. So I figure hey, mine as well do the exact same fix for that. Well, it all went to hell.

Turns out that bones are case sensitive, in the 3ds max layer it has SPINE1 SPINE2 Spine3 Spine4 for cows. The fix was rename SPINE1 to Spine1 and SPINE2 to Spine2

 

WTF 3DS MAX!

 

Your little pupil llabsky is finally growing up... learning to solve problems on his own

[pornphile]

Hey pornphile here's something interesting.

 

I've been smashing my head on the keyboard trying to figure out this problem about the cow animation. You remember when I asked you about giants weapon and you helped me by telling me I needed to make a dummy named "Weapon"

http://www.loverslab.com/topic/39996-3ds-max-skyrim-video-animation-tutorial/?p=1281236

 

Well the same error occurred for cows Spine1 and Spine2. So I figure hey, mine as well do the exact same fix for that. Well, it all went to hell.

Turns out that bones are case sensitive, in the 3ds max layer it has SPINE1 SPINE2 Spine3 Spine4 for cows. The fix was rename SPINE1 to Spine1 and SPINE2 to Spine2

 

WTF 3DS MAX!

 

Your little pupil llabsky is finally growing up... learning to solve problems on his own

I remember vaguely reading about bones being case sensitive. Glad you figured it out.

 

[Guest thunderiaz]

Thanks. Now I can animate too.

[pornphile]

Thanks. Now I can animate too.

Verily, I charge thee, go forth

and fill Skyrim with debauchery!

[cesm1980]

I am trying to edit skyrim vanilla animations in 3dsmax 2012 64bit, but i don't know what is wrong, i tried already hundreds of different combinations totally by trial and error and every single time the animation is incomplete.

I am using the vanilla skeleton nif file and skeleton hkx file for the convertion of hkx to kf files and nif tools 3dsmaxplugin, and i am testing the animation on vanilla npcs.

I already tried the skeleton controller rig mentioned in this thread but it seems to do even worse glitches on vanilla animations so i know it has to be a custom rig.

One of those i tried was the 1hm_attackleft kf file in a tuturial on wiki tesnexus (working with animations in skyrim), even tough i followed EXACTLY the same steps on the tutorial, the animation has a few strange glitches, like the head of the npc i play the animation on gets inside the body much like a turtle, and the weapon moves to the middle of the body kinda like impaling the body and gets back to place as soon as the animation is done.

I also tried the animation idlegive from the vanilla game, but to my surprise the npc's feet and left hand and fingers shrink so much they can't even be seen.

I also noticed each time the animation is imported into 3dsmax, it's never exactly the same, sometimes it gets glitched others it doesn't, i wonder if this could be related to the cause of the problem.

Needless to say, any of these exported animations are unable to be imported back into skyrim again since the nif plugin says "improper file format". I also noticed by opening the kf in nikskope that there is several bones that are NOT exported in the file, they seem to be always the same ones, it's mostly the weapon bones, quiver, the left hand fingers, etc. It's strange that ANY version of the nif tools plugin is always skipping these bones on the exported animation.

And the funny thing is, i am ABSOLUTLY sure i was once in the past able to edit these animations and export them WITHOUT these glitches (unless i hallucinated [] ) so there's got to be a way but i already tried FIVE different versions of the nif plugin with always the same result, but i remember very well that it WAS indeed exported by the nif plugin in 3dsmax, not havok tools.

Is there someone that can try to import those two vanilla animations inside 3dsmax and export to see if the problem is because of my modded game? I simply got tired of wasting hours and hours and hours and the result always being the same, maybe someone else's computer and 3dsmax installation don't cause this problem.

Edited October 18, 2015 by cesm1980

[pornphile]

I am trying to edit skyrim vanilla animations in 3dsmax 2012 64bit, but i don't know what is wrong, i tried already hundreds of different combinations totally by trial and error and every single time the animation is incomplete.

 

I am using the vanilla skeleton nif file and skeleton hkx file for the convertion of hkx to kf files and nif tools 3dsmaxplugin, and i am testing the animation on vanilla npcs.

 

I already tried the skeleton controller rig mentioned in this thread but it seems to do even worse glitches on vanilla animations so i know it has to be a custom rig.

 

One of those i tried was the 1hm_attackleft kf file in a tuturial on wiki tesnexus (working with animations in skyrim), even tough i followed EXACTLY the same steps on the tutorial, the animation has a few strange glitches, like the head of the npc i play the animation on gets inside the body much like a turtle, and the weapon moves to the middle of the body kinda like impaling the body and gets back to place as soon as the animation is done.

 

I also tried the animation idlegive from the vanilla game, but to my surprise the npc's feet and left hand and fingers shrink so much they can't even be seen.

 

I also noticed each time the animation is imported into 3dsmax, it's never exactly the same, sometimes it gets glitched others it doesn't, i wonder if this could be related to the cause of the problem.

 

Needless to say, any of these exported animations are unable to be imported back into skyrim again since the nif plugin says "improper file format". I also noticed by opening the kf in nikskope that there is several bones that are NOT exported in the file, they seem to be always the same ones, it's mostly the weapon bones, quiver, the left hand fingers, etc. It's strange that ANY version of the nif tools plugin is always skipping these bones on the exported animation.

 

And the funny thing is, i am ABSOLUTLY sure i was once in the past able to edit these animations and export them WITHOUT these glitches (unless i hallucinated [ ] ) so there's got to be a way but i already tried FIVE different versions of the nif plugin with always the same result, but i remember very well that it WAS indeed exported by the nif plugin in 3dsmax, not havok tools.

 

Is there someone that can try to import those two vanilla animations inside 3dsmax and export to see if the problem is because of my modded game? I simply got tired of wasting hours and hours and hours and the result always being the same, maybe someone else's computer and 3dsmax installation don't cause this problem.

The controller rigs aren't designed to have .kf files be imported into them. The rigs are for rapid development of new animations.

Using niftools for animations is unpredictable at best. Any reason why you don't just use HCT?

 

[cesm1980]

The controller rigs aren't designed to have .kf files be imported into them. The rigs are for rapid development of new animations.

 

 

Yeah i am aware of that unfortunately, and yeah with entire new animations i didn't had any problem porting them into the game, congratulations for that controller rig system, it's great, but speaking of that... is it normal when lifting the arms upwards, no matter what i try, the shoulders look VERY deformed and thin, even using the dream girl body... i presume this is not possible to fix, right?

 

Using niftools for animations is unpredictable at best. Any reason why you don't just use HCT?

 

 

Yeah i tried but it's too difficult, because after all, i was able to export new animations from scratch using the provided HCT configuration set on the rig max files (actually there was a few vanilla animations that worked as well!! But not those that animate the feet because the feet are linked to the ground controllers so it gives even more problems than using nif tools alone)

 

But unfortunately using the same HCT configuration set without the controller rig on a custom rig, i don't know how to set up HCT properly for vanilla skeleton rigs without using the controller rig, for example, i tried to create a new project on 3dsmax, and then imported the skeleton nif from the game, and then a kf file.

 

But unfortunately using the configuration set from the controller rig max files gave problems (if you want details just ask), and when creating a brand new configuration set in HCT, no matter which skeleton txt file i use in the "create skeleton" section the animation is all mashed up inside the game (i presume the order of the bones is different), i tried both both vanilla_rig_99bones and the XPMS RIG 1.6c Full Bone files, but apparently they don't match the vanilla skeleton nif file or the ones from the vanilla animations.

 

So can you help me on that? It's probably something very sample, but unfortunately i gave up trying to figure this out by pure trial and error.

 

What i really want in all this, besides creating new animations of course, is also to copy/paste a few frames from vanilla animations to another vanilla animation, since obviously i don't want to have to recreate by hand the vanilla animations i want to tweak, but unfortunately i think this is going to be the only solution left, besides the vanilla animations have keys on all frames so i suppose it's even harder tweaking them using IK controllers... (even tough i have a rought idea how to make IK links between bones but first i need to properly export vanilla animations, even if it has to be with HCT)

 

[pornphile]

 

The controller rigs aren't designed to have .kf files be imported into them. The rigs are for rapid development of new animations.

 

Yeah i am aware of that unfortunately, and yeah with entire new animations i didn't had any problem porting them into the game, congratulations for that controller rig system, it's great, but speaking of that... is it normal when lifting the arms upwards, no matter what i try, the shoulders look VERY deformed and thin, even using the dream girl body... i presume this is not possible to fix, right?

Uplifted shoulders look terrible on all the bodies. Technically possible to fix but would need brand new skeleton/meshes. Combo of clavicle+upper arm bone rotations might mitigate the ugliness.

 

The vanilla skeleton is missing 3 nodes found in the rig text. Here's a proper vanilla skeleton scene file:

 

Export using same method as the controller rig.

[cesm1980]

What????! It worked perfectly ! Thank you so much, you have somehow to attach this to the main thread, i might not be the only one interested on importing vanilla animations...

 

Even all the invalid skew animation warnings were gone as well, it's the first time i EVER got a sucessfull export of a vanilla animation without any warnings like that on havok tools!

 

There's only one big problem... it only works on males ! On females it just gives a t-pose, i have to use the "sexchange" console command to see the animation, can you create the same kind of file but for the female skeleton as well ? I also tried now to extract the vanilla animation hkx file to kf using the male and female version and still the same result, this only works on males.

 

If you don't have to create a new file, then just tell me how to solve this, because extracting the kf using the female hkx had no effect, maybe it's the txt file you need to send for the female skeleton ? If not tell me how to fix this.

[pornphile]

What????! It worked perfectly ! Thank you so much, you have somehow to attach this to the main thread, i might not be the only one interested on importing vanilla animations...

 

Even all the invalid skew animation warnings were gone as well, it's the first time i EVER got a sucessfull export of a vanilla animation without any warnings like that on havok tools!

 

There's only one big problem... it only works on males ! On females it just gives a t-pose, i have to use the "sexchange" console command to see the animation, can you create the same kind of file but for the female skeleton as well ? I also tried now to extract the vanilla animation hkx file to kf using the male and female version and still the same result, this only works on males.

 

If you don't have to create a new file, then just tell me how to solve this, because extracting the kf using the female hkx had no effect, maybe it's the txt file you need to send for the female skeleton ? If not tell me how to fix this.

That IS the female skeleton. LOL. I also ran a quick test using female npc.

The difference between m/f is that female skeleton has hands scale to .85. The animations are interchangeable otherwise. If your animations are only working for males, I think it's something else on your end.

 

Edit: In fact, you should export using the male scales. Exporting with the female scales will result in crushed fingers. Here is the vanilla male scene file instead:

3ds Max 2012_Skyrim_Vanilla Skeleton.7z

[cesm1980]

Ok finally i found out the problem, in case anyone else is having the same problem :

 

I am actually using a custom mod made by me, and i have custom animations in FNIS (using generatefnisformodders). UNLIKE vanilla animations that are cached, these used by FNIS the hkx file can be replaced anytime, even while the game is running and the game WILL read the new file everytime the animation is called (if it's not playing already), so it's a great testing tool to avoid reload or quitting and opening the game all over again just to test a single animation. The problem was that i forgot to set the flag "GENDER Specific animations" patch on FNIS 5.5.1, so everything is great now, thanks a lot for this, i will be using this scene file a lot, alongside the other one from the controller rig as well.

 

Actually i think this would be a great advise for most persons, that are probably closing and opening the game all over again everytime they replace the hkx file, so far i haven't had any problems at all using this method, the game always recognizes the replaced file.

 

[Guest kdeg]

Hi, it seems the Havok Content Tools 2011.3 in no longer available on the official website, and i can't find it anywhere else for download. Could someone be kind enough to send it to me? Thanks.

[Zanan]

Hi, it seems the Havok Content Tools 2011.3 in no longer available on the official website, and i can't find it anywhere else for download. Could someone be kind enough to send it to me? Thanks.

Ditto this, I am searching myself now and will keep you posted if I get lucky.

[pornphile]

Since Microsoft has bought Havok, HCT is no longer publicly availabe. Links kept for reference. I suggest new animators to try Blender instead.

[Zanan]

Since Microsoft has bought Havok, HCT is no longer publicly availabe. Links kept for reference. I suggest new animators to try Blender instead.

 

Dang it :/ It's always microsoft isn't it.

 

I'll have a shot with blender, first time using it so I have no idea what is going on , thanks for the tutorials mate should make things a lot easier to have a crack at a few anims.

[Guest kdeg]

 

Hi, it seems the Havok Content Tools 2011.3 in no longer available on the official website, and i can't find it anywhere else for download. Could someone be kind enough to send it to me? Thanks.

Ditto this, I am searching myself now and will keep you posted if I get lucky.

 

 

Thanks Zanan. I'll do the same if i find something. But i'm not too optimistic, it's been at least two months HCT was removed and not a single link has appeared anywhere since. I was rather hoping one of the many animators on loverslab would share it on private requests. Not sure I'm gonna have the time to learn blender.

[D_ManXX2]

Pornphile i was wondering i never used 3dmax before, but is there currently a tutorial for 3dmax controls ?? What i currently need is a template of keys to quickly navigate 3dmax especially the screen. But more for a beginner 3dmax user. I tried some of those basics tutorial but comparing to blender this has even a bigger learning curve. Or at least to me.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[pornphile]

Pornphile i was wondering i never used 3dmax before, but is there currently a tutorial for 3dmax controls ?? What i currently need is a template of keys to quickly navigate 3dmax especially the screen. But more for a beginner 3dmax user. I tried some of those basics tutorial but comparing to blender this has even a bigger learning curve. Or at least to me.

You can assign your own keys from the Customize dropdown menu. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dy0zkGxctbA

Here's the default list of keyboard shortcuts. Found also in Customize: https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Autodesk_3ds_Max/Shortcuts

 

Autodesk youtube channel goes over basic UI elements and navigation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQRFLpFlqNk&list=PL65F8B8755BFDAA1E

 

Between Photoshop, Zbrush, Maya... too many keys for me to remember. I use 'move mouse and click'. Or try to standardize to Maya key layout. Are you trying to do something specific?

[Supertin]

Is it possible to somehow animate the Camera3rd [Cam3] properly (with the help of FNIS or without?)? I tried to do it, but the only movement from the animated camera that shows up in-game is moving up or down vertically. Moving/panning or rotating the camera doesn't seem to work so easily...

 

Tried to find some concrete information on animating the 3rd person camera, but information seems to be scarce :C

[pornphile]

Is it possible to somehow animate the Camera3rd [Cam3] properly (with the help of FNIS or without?)? I tried to do it, but the only movement from the animated camera that shows up in-game is moving up or down vertically. Moving/panning or rotating the camera doesn't seem to work so easily...

 

Tried to find some concrete information on animating the 3rd person camera, but information seems to be scarce :C

Yes, as demonstrated by ZaZ. He also did some tests with kill moves, which I think is using my paired rig?

 

I'm assuming Camera3rd [Cam3] can be animated in my own rigs since I left this node untouched. Are you using F+M or paired rig? Maybe ZaZ(or anyone else) can give some insight about animated cam.

[Supertin]

 

Is it possible to somehow animate the Camera3rd [Cam3] properly (with the help of FNIS or without?)? I tried to do it, but the only movement from the animated camera that shows up in-game is moving up or down vertically. Moving/panning or rotating the camera doesn't seem to work so easily...

 

Tried to find some concrete information on animating the 3rd person camera, but information seems to be scarce :C

Yes, as demonstrated by ZaZ. He also did some tests with kill moves, which I think is using my paired rig?

 

I'm assuming Camera3rd [Cam3] can be animated in my own rigs since I left this node untouched. Are you using F+M or paired rig? Maybe ZaZ(or anyone else) can give some insight about animated cam.

 

 

Thanks for the quick reply! I've seen Zaz' killmove animation before, one of the reasons I wanted to figure this out myself. I think the "Animations" mod (the one that adds animations for looting etc) has an animated camera too.

 

I tried it with the paired rig and just the female rig. In both cases I was only able to get the vertical movement up or down to play in game.

I have the feeling this is something that requires FNIS, the link to ZaZ nexus page talks about FNIS and -ac (which is animated camera). Looks like I'll have to figure out how to use FNIS for Modders >_<

 

Are there any tutorials (maybe videos?) out there that go through creating a mod using FNIS+CK?

[pornphile]

Thanks for the quick reply! I've seen Zaz' killmove animation before, one of the reasons I wanted to figure this out myself. I think the "Animations" mod (the one that adds animations for looting etc) has an animated camera too.

 

I tried it with the paired rig and just the female rig. In both cases I was only able to get the vertical movement up or down to play in game.

I have the feeling this is something that requires FNIS, the link to ZaZ nexus page talks about FNIS and -ac (which is animated camera). Looks like I'll have to figure out how to use FNIS for Modders >_<

 

Are there any tutorials (maybe videos?) out there that go through creating a mod using FNIS+CK?

 

I don't know of any videos but you should definitely look through FNIS for Modders. ZaZ's example also use pa and km(pair, kill move) flags, which FNIS for Modders should also be able to explain.

 

You can also try exporting his scene file using his example FNIS_List.txt.