(idea) Seasons of the Witch

[Swiftstep]

Hello everybody,

 

let’s have first things first. I don’t want to (help) create just another caster class, since there already are lots of mods and concepts for this kind of gaming. In the original game there is not much reason for picking e.g. illusion or alteration skills, because a good old fireball is much more effective. This is being massively changed by the mod „Apocalypse“; this mod motivated me to continue thinking about what this game still could need / feature, since it is not yet represented by it.

 

This mod is supposed to be a alternative to mods like „Undeath“, where you can become a Lich. A witch on the other hand is not supposed to throw herself into the middle of a fight, because her physical form is weak. Her real strength is staying in the shadow, unseen, unnoticed. Unless she wants to. While she stays unnoticed, she may cast curses and plagues to hurt and kill her enemies.

 

And, no, there is no witch in the game so far. A witch does not use destruction magic (Hagraven), nor does she raise the undead (Necromancer). Yes, a witch therefore is not supposed to fight the undead, automatons or dragons. In fact, she should be rather weak when fighting those opponents. Because, if an enemy has no mind of its own, or his mental powers are supperior (dragons), her magic will not be of much effect.

 

To the facts I had in mind:

• A new form with a transformation animation (personally, I would prefer the Wispmother as a basic design, for she stays hidden unless provoked, plus she is not a brawler). No skill-books, but perks and experience leverls.
• A new set of touch-based magic (may be taken and altered from „Apocalypse“), starting with fear and slowing spells, followed by curses and plagues, resulting in the conjuring of wraiths and spirit guardians (I tend to not use the word „demonology“ for it would not seem immersive if a witch is guarded by atronachs).
• Maybe implementation of blood magic (with a basic concept like the spell „equilibrium“); meaning if the witch does not cause damage, she would hurt and kill herself; this might be going in the wrong direction in terms of immersion, therefore it would be a matter of discussion
• A class with the focus of fighting the living, while being feared and dreaded by everybody, including peacefull NPCs
• In consequence a system of letting the player / avatar have a visible mark after changing the form from witch to humanoid (like having the „old face“ you can chose in the race menu, under complexion) for several hours. If a NPC sees you with the mark, the relationship will be heavily damaged (reputation could be set back)
• A class for female and male avatars (witch and warlock), but focus first should be on the witch (I’m realistic – female mods get more attention)
• bonus on sneaking and stealth skills, while having low HP and stamina (not a tank)
• Could also modify the sneak-poisining idea since in the vanilla-game it is rather useless (I didn’t try this with SkyRe so far); the witch could sneak up on the enemy, try to steal something, curse it, and give it back)
• Keep in mind that the witch is not supposed to be everybodies darling. Especially in Skyrim a witch hunt isn’t that unrealistic. Other mods already use the „hunter option“ – this should be taken into consideration for this idea, too

All is just an idea. Unfortunately I lack the resources and knowledge to have the slightest idea on how complex this idea is. It’s just an idea – if nobody finds it worthy to realize, so be it. If people would do so, all the credits would go to them. But still, it is just an idea, not a request. Maybe I did mistake the „witch of the wild“ mod, but does not seem to have much to do with witchcraft as I imagine it. Well, that’s that. Hoping to meet your expectations when opening this topic, and looking forward to receive your input.

 

Cheerio.

[Guest]

I'd love for there to be an Undeath equivalent mod for witches, there's lots of roleplay scope.

 

Most of my characters turn out a bit witchy as I favour alchemy and the leeching and disease type magic spells from Apocalypse, and I like playing a more nature child type over a city dweller. I guess I'm a frustrated witch. 

 

The problem for me personally, as with vampires, is Beth's twist on witch lore - only they could decide that witches abhor nature. To me that's what witches are all about, using their intimate understanding of the natural world to achieve supernatural aims. Also hagravens are pretty pathetic in game -  if the pinnacle of the craft is a heavy breathing glass cannon with crow's feet and a halloween mask that moves like a battleship, then I'm not convinced any witch would bother. So there's lots of scope to build something good that addresses some shortcomings.

 

I guess the problem is that maybe others don't share our enthusiasm. Necromancers are a lot more manly, I guess people think of Sauron (or Arthas)  as the archetype of badassery in that field of magic. 

[FastestDogInTheDistrict]

...before anyone else adds it:

 

 

[Swiftstep]

Thanks for the replies, you guys. Of course I was thinking of that song when choosing this title - although the version played in the movie "Blues Brothers 2000" is more to my liking. It is a very powerful version.

Nevertheless, back to the topic. witches are most commonly connected to christianity. And Skyrim is related to the culture of ancient Scandinavia (and its surrounding civilisations). Since women in those cultures were of different influence within society, they didn't need to rely on conjuring and cursing to get their will done. Immersion would be a tough one, clearly, if one would focus on the most powerful society within Skyirm.
But one should consider that besides the Nord culture, there is still a forsworn breath of history blowing through Skyrim. And the forsworn are - in my opinion - the perfect cover-story to create witchcraft. Why? The men are hunted down and killed or imprisoned. But the women? They already rely on dark magic by creating the Briarhearts and the hagravens. This would be a good starting point when aiming for immersion. And it wouldn't feel like something artificially constructed, I think.

As for the regard of missing interest within the gaming society: sure, most man would hesitate to play an avatar that looks like a feeble woman (and a witch is supposed to look harmless). But one should see the idea from a different point of view. A witch is not a warrior who directly acts and gets her revenge; she acts much more subtle and well planned. A powerful mind, perfectly hidden within a weak looking body. It kind of is comparable to a body builder trying to scare of a small looking person that owns the black girdle in a martial art - for him the body builder is simply a joke, and poses no threat.

Plus a stealthy caster would be something completely new to the game. I didn't intent to let the witch be an alternate construct to the assassin. Most games I know of don't support this kind of play style. Stealth and sneaking means two daggers - I know, I know. Thats one reason why the witch would need an own skill tree; it would only enhance the options one has to clear a dungeon. But just like being a Werewolf or a Vampire Lord, one shouldn't be allowed to use that power whenever it seems useful. There must be a toll to pay.

And there is another idea I've been thinking on. Choosing a new skill tree and a special transformation / form / look for the class would on the one hand motivate the people to learn more about the mods used (SkyRe and Apocalyptica should be known by everyone for example), but it would also be a completely new approach on how to implement a class-based import from other games. I mean, ever since that Draenei mod has been published, I was thinking of: yes, if there is a witch, there might also be a paladin. Why not? With Apocalyptica there already are a lot of Paladin-like spells in the game. Imagine the paladin as a counterpart to necromancer and witch. The snow elves worship the light. One closer to the lore might find a reason why such a class could be implemented as well.

Maybe it might be more promising on trying to implement a paladin to the game (but witches are cooler!).

 

Wow. That's a lot of text. Please don't choke on it.

 

 

 

[Guest]

 witches are most commonly connected to christianity. .

I can't agree with that, no.The Old English word for 'witch' is 'wicca', one can make all sorts of free associations with that word, none of it Christian. Witches are most commonly connected to 'old religions' - paganism, most likely in the form of naturalistic pantheism of some sort, and they have their equivalent in probably every culture that's ever existed, sometimes tolerated,  even venerated.

 

The involvement of christianity with these extant old religions is inevitably in the form of a collision;  convert or be persecuted. That began to gain a good head of steam following a 10th century Canon Episcopi attributed to a Bishop Regino of Prum:

 

"The bishops and their ministers should by all means make great effort so that they may thoroughly eradicate the pernicious art of divination and magic, invented by the devil, from their parishes, and if they find any man or woman adhering to such a crime, they should eject them, turpidly dishonoured, from their parishes."

 

The founder of modern Wicca is Gerald Gardner, who set out to create a formalised religion based on what was known of the many varied old forms. He was previously a member of the Order Templi Orientis, of which the infamous Aleister Crowley was a leading light. If anything, the OTO and maybe by association Wicca, are influenced by elements of Kabbalah.  

 

Anyway (good grief I do go on), I do get where you're coming from. I just want to pick up on your point about stealthy magic. This is already very viable, it's how my current character plays. She uses illusion and destruction magic with the quiet cast perk to potentially frenzy or fear a whole room of mobs, maybe placing a rune nearby to add to the chaos. She also uses leech type spells or poisons to mess with their magicka and stamina recovery. Most of the mayhem she wreaks is without breaking stealth at all. 

 

I think you're onto something with this, but as with Undeath and how it pays so much due to necromancy as an in game way of life, you'd surely want to be taking what we love most about witchcraft  and then bring it all together in a cohesive and very RP friendly way, strengthening areas where it seems weak in order to convince people that's the way to play the game, specialising in something that has structure, order and a progress path leading to attainment of a powerful and expert form.

 

[Swiftstep]

Thanks for your feedback - and for sharing the information of the origin of the subject. Only a short reply on the historical point of view (for I lack the knowledge and the skills in English language to argue with you about the subject): I didn't want to "give christianity the credit" in creating the witchcraft-lore. I know that cultures around the globe had comparable believes (possibly all cultures where women were considered weak and only useful for procreation). My point was, that the witch as a mystical being is far more commonly known (even today) because of its history with the inquisition e.g. But, agreeing with you, this would only lead into further digress and less people reading the topic. So let's move on

As you confirmed my assumption (didn't try it out, just read it), there are already mods (mainly Apocalyptica and SkyRe) that allow a stealthed caster. Therefore one might ask if there truly is need of a "class" that allows part of something that someone else already implemented. The whole idea might result in creating more immerion, but no new content. Finding a balance between creating a believable witch / warlock class and creating new content for people to explore is what is all about.

 

Personally, I now tend to think that one would need a more subtle approach on the battle mechanics of the witch. Since there already is sneak magic available, it would need something more specialised, with a new play style. Now I imagine a class that would explore a dungeon without being noticed (not like sneaking, more like a disguise = not noted as threat by the enemy). That would be very immersive and RP-friendly, I guess. The class would need very strong illusion-magic, for the disguise. Plus the harmful magic (curses and plagues) shouldn't be related to destruction or conjuration, but on alteration (as a sequel to mysticism from Oblivion).

 

Plus, the kick / the thrill / the new aspect could be very much related to witchcraft: imagine the class uses its magic capabilities to venture deeper into the dungeon, while she steals personal items from the inhabitants. Then, after "all" is done, the witch would look for a "quiet" place within the dungeon and starts casting a long, ritual-like spell that would cause all affected targets to suffer at the same time. Like everything breaks loose in just one moment.

That might be an extremely powerful way of "fighting", while adding a brand new aspect to the game AND giving the player a huge "wow!" effect. If that is possible. I'm very sure that many people would like to see something powerful as that. The thrill of a difficult preparation, resulting in a mass-hysteria. But I might have lost my objective point of view now. 

[Kersenflap]

Interesting idea yes , i only know their is a witch race on steam but it lacks some immersion yes the idea you have sounds alot better , i hope someone will pick this up but i think you will encounter the same problem as i have with my request

[Swiftstep]

Thank you for your reply - and for reading into this dialogue

 

To be completely honest, I must admit that at first I could not understand that there was so little feedback from the community (dialogue - since only 2 people were talking). That nobody took up this idea to implement it in the game. Then I realized that I am not in the position to blame anyone for not investing time and work into "my idea", because I wouldn't do it myself either. Yes, the subject is labeled as an (idea) but still one should put some effort into the idea itself to motivate people to join the crusade. That I did not - and I must admit, I will not do. I'm just a lazy SOB.

No matter how good or bad the idea is, it still is like something a total stranger tells you over a beer in the pub. You hear it, maybe it sticks, but most likely you just nod and be done with it.