Pasting bone weights in mirror mode for 3ds max

[Zagiel]

Has anyone managed to use "paste blue/green bones" button in mirror mode of skin modifier correctly?

 

Using 3ds Max 2010, CBBE TBBP Dragonfly template body and XPMS/vanilla skel.

 

"Paste blue/green verts" button works correctly, I mean symmetry of body mesh is fine and recognized by Max, but it pastes those vertex weights to the same bone, not the opposite one. Which I suppose is prolly how it is intended to be and to paste on the opposite bone I'm supposed to use "paste blue/green bones" button. But that one doesn't work for me. All bones are red, I guess max cannot determine the bone symmetry. Perhaps it's got something to do with the fact that most of the bone objects in both XPMS and vanilla skeleton are somewhat perpendicular to the actual rotation of the bone, which doesn't make them symmetrical in the YZ plane - see screenshot.

 

My question is:

1. Is there an easy way to fix Max to see the bone symmetry? I heard someone mention that he imports Dragonfly skeleton over the XPMS for this reason, but I cannot find any link to it.

2. Is there a way to paste multiple weights from one bone to the different bone? This would allow me to avoid the "paste bones" problem by using the "paste verts" button and then manually reassigning them.

3. Is there perhaps any other way of L/R mirroring your body weights?

 

Thanks

[pornphile]

Hi. Paste bones deal with envelope data. I don't think you need that. Go to 2:55. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sc4fXyGgGqg

Max 2012 here. Paste Blue/Green verts copies all verts to the other side. It works fine for me.

 

You can also try this:

1. Click 'Paint Weights'.

2. Click '...' will open Painter Options.

3. Check 'Mirror' for X axis.

 

You will get 2 gizmos on either side. Weight controls are under brush properties.

[Zagiel]

Thanks for help pornphile. Again!

 

I've actually had watched that series of videos few weeks ago, only I forgot the fact that those two buttons are only for envelopes. I've managed to align the envelopes in the meantime by unchecking 'always deform' and color-code the bones correctly but yeah, it's got nothing to do with updating vertex weights.

 

Anyway, knowing that "paste blue/green verts" button is supposed to work correctly is great help.

I tried again and again in last hour and one time it worked - it really pasted those weights on the opposite bone. In other cases it always pastes the mirrored side all right, but always for the same bone I was almost sure that the culprit is non-removed zero weights, but no. I still need to figure out the reason.

[pornphile]

Does mirror paste (first button) not work for you either?

 

Reading the video comments, someone mentions Xform. I read on another forum(I lost the link ), you had to reset Xform for mirroring. Try this:

http://www.digitaltutors.com/forum/showthread.php?29766-Intro-to-Character-Rigging-Problem-with-mirroring-weights.

 

If you're desperate, you can upload the file to a file hoster and I can take a look.

[Zagiel]

no, mirror paste button yields the same results

i'm really starting to be desparate  i've uploaded the max file

 

i tried the x-form resetting, placing in under the skin and rechecking the 'always deform', but no luck. every time i try to mirror the weights, it just steals the weights from the opposite bone. like, i try to mirror left forearm and now i got right forearm with empty skin and left forearm with both forearm skins on it. that explanation about two layers of transforms is the only plausible reason, but it just doesn't work for me 

 

[pornphile]

I see what you're saying with the bone stealing the weights. Not only that but the entire side has lost all weighting data. And the skeleton is a mess.

So I importeda a UNP mesh, tried to mirror the verts and got the same data loss on one side.

 

Next I deleted all the modifiers and exported to .nif. I imported this into a clean XPMS extended skeleton and reskinned the mesh. I mirrored the verts and they worked. I think we can rule out mirror verts as not working.

 

CBBE with working mirror, but you'll notice the CBBE body is offset because I didn't export with the skin modifier. However when I did export/import with skin modifier, I was able to replicate the problem. I suspect it's the skin modifier or your max file and not something like the import script or Max.

 

 

I recommend starting clean. Import a base mesh into a clean skeleton(like XPMS-E) and try to mirror the verts. Try something basic like vanilla shoes. And something else that was strange; when I tried to select element, it would only let me select a single face. Whereas on UNP with element select, the entire torso was selected.

 

Pretty useless and don't know if you can even use Max 2012 files but here is the file with offset mesh:

http://www.mediafire.com/download/phuvh3jdtmq4h0h/evil_mirror_reskin.max

[Zagiel]

Thanks so much for the effort u put in this, pornphile!

 

The thing with selecting a face instead of the element is new to me - works for the whole torso for me.

The skin modifier... I'm getting the mirror stealing efect for any kind of skel and body, even vanilla skel & vanilla body, for any type of NIF import settings. So it looks like this:

1. importing untouched body & skin and mirroring it doesn't work for me in max 2010

2. importing untouched body & skin and mirroring it does work for you in max 2012

3. me importing the body in max 2010 and passing it to your max 2012 results in non-working mirror as well

 

I'd guess it's the NIF importer being bugged for 2010 then.

 

But how are you able to work in Max 2012? I actually migrated from Max 2012 to Max 2010 in December, because of this issue with Havok Content Tools 2010.2 not working in Max 2012. And when I was still using just hkxcmd in Max 2012 for animation export, I had issues with some bone transforms exported incorrectly and people kept saying it's imperfect hkxcmd and HCT is the only way to go for anim export. Has something changed?

 

 

[Zagiel]

OMG I'm totally clueless - I went back to Max 2012 and the weight stealing is there as well. Nothing else but clean vanilla skeleton and clean vanilla body, no anim, no modifications whatsoever.

[pornphile]

I haven't gotten into Havok yet. Can you link to the thread that talks about HCT? Since you have access to Max 2012, how does my max file look on your end?

 

Here are my nif tools version and settings:

[Emberheart]

I tricked a lot of mirrored bone with the Outfitter tool for .NIF files. However, when I get to trying to the bone weighting in 3dsmax, I'll give the feature a try, as I expect 3dsmax to be far more accurate.

[Zagiel]

Dammit, it was all about Nif Importer v3.7.3 being messed up.

 

You're using v3.7.2, which works fine and your skeleton objects get imported all right. I was using newest version from Nexus and this is how it imports bones for me - see screenshot (there are others claiming the same about v3.7.3) I always thought it was Beth's folks who designed those bone objects in such a perpendicular pose and they just didn't give a fuck cos envelopes were not important for them. I had no clue it's an import issue and there are actually ppl who have it working correctly.

 

Now that I got envelopes with correct rotations, Max can recognize not only vertex symmetry but bone symmetry as well and mirroring works fine - no more weight stealing. Never would have found that out w/o your importer screenshot and your max file with correctly imported skeleton, thanks!

 

 

I haven't gotten into Havok yet. Can you link to the thread that talks about HCT?

It was more like several threads briefly mentioning it off-topic, but it seems I wasn't completely true and it is possible even for Max 2012. This is what XP & aeon write in the updated version of their guide:

 

 

3Ds max 2010 or lower until max 9
• Havok Content tools 2010.2 . Download it from
• http://software.intel.com/sites/havok/en/
• it’s free. Just fill the all the form needed and download
• Nifskope and Niftools plugin for 3Ds Max
• hkxcmd.exe

 

Note!:
Skyrim support max 2010 and lower until max 9, 2012 need Havok Content
tools 2011. 3 and hktcnv.exe by Hologram. 2012 is need more complicated
way to make it work.

 

The guide has the full settings for HCT as well.

[pornphile]

Glad you got things sorted. And that skeleton looks god-awful. I'll make sure to look at the HCT guide when I work my way there.

[trepleen]

I had the same problem. Importing with 3.7.2 allowed me to use a skeleton in which I could mirror paste with.  Basically it comes down to this:

 

Use 3.7.2 to import a skeleton for use with Mirror Paste Skin Modifier.  Once you have that skeleton saved in a max file, you can go back to using 3.7.3