Q: Arm seams - mesh or texture?

[zzz72w3r]

I was trying out UNP Top Model and could not get rid of the arm and leg seams by replacing every different derivative of UNP arm and leg meshes I can find.   Then I noticed that one of the NPC from SR Elf follower custom pack has no seams but the other one has.  I looked into the pack and they both use identical meshes but the only difference is that the one with seams has a unique femalebody_xxx_1.dds.  This is the only difference between seam and no seam.  

 

Question: I am currently using mature skin for UNP and really like it and I don't understand how texture will create seams.  What can I do to fix it (for both my PC and the NPC in the pack)?

 

[gvman3670]

I've only used the textures that come with TopModel (FSC Univision Sweaty that's on the TM download page). I don't have any seems or gaps. They also seem to give my character a younger appearance, regardless of which character or body type the character is using. I don't know if that's a good thing or not.

[zzz72w3r]

I started switching textures to see if something is different.  Nothing helped but I know even less about textures than the basics I know about mesh.  Mind you the seams are only visible when exposed to direct lights.  The strange thing is that the seams disappear as soon as I put some cloth on, even if it is very revealing cloth where the hands and legs are completely exposed. 

[gvman3670]

Clothing has a texture in it for the exposed bits. That is probably why the seams go away while (partially) clothed.

 

Only use the normal TM mesh (don't go swapping it for other UNP bits) and stick to textures that fit it properly. I don't know what else to suggest. I just haven't had any issues like this while using UNP TM and the FSC Univision textures. And, for what it's worth, the FSC textures would phenomenally on other UNP variants, even Venus where I don't even have a visible neck seam from coloration.

 

So I am left to believe that somehow something is overwriting your hand.dds files. Are you using Mod Organizer? If so that will show in the conflicts and you can find the culprit, then just move the offender above your texture in the left pane.

[zzz72w3r]

"Clothing has a texture in it for the exposed bits. That is probably why the seams go away while (partially) clothed."  - Thanks, good to learn something new.

 

Are you using HDT version of UNP TM?  I think that textures probably are not playing well with HDT body mesh created from Bodyslide2.  I used NMM to remove all texture mods and the seams still exist, with or without using the Univision UNP TM texture.  I played around with custom follower packs and replace their body mesh with just UNP HDT versions from Bodyslide2 which should have the highest compatibility.  Some have seams and some don't, the ones that have seams use texture mods. 

[Bob Minos]

Open the body meshes that have the seams in NifSkope and expand the details.

In NiTriShapeData look for Has Normals.

If this is set to Yes, double click the word Yes to change it to No and save. Body parts aren't supposed to have this set to yes.

Test in game to see if the seams have gone away. If they haven't, then you know it's from the normal map texture, or the diffuse texture. The process for fixing these can be as simple as adjusting the brightness of the diffuse, and as complex as rebuilding the proper colors in the _msn normal map.

[zzz72w3r]

OK, I am now completely lost.  First time edit with Nifscope and I set NiTRiShapeData - Normal to No on the body meshes 0 and 1:

 

1. The arm seams are still there.

2. I got a huge neck gap where I did not have before.  If I set Normal back to Yes, the gap is still there. 

 

Revert back to UNP TM vanilla, no seams no neck gap, but no HDT physics. 

 

I think there is something not right with HDT Bodyslide 1.4 or I used it incorrectly.  Every body mesh I created (UNP, TM, Skinny) for PC has seams but If I copy the HDT Bodyslide meshes to custom SR Elf Followers packs, all NPC got HDT physics and seams only exist on those with custom textures. 

 

Edit: switch back HDT and non-HDT a couple more times and with NiTriShapeData - Normal set to Yes. there is no neck gap. 

 

 

[gvman3670]

I am using the TBBP version of TopModel. I've never seen and HDT TopModel body, but aren't TBBP all you need for physics anyway?

[zzz72w3r]

Yeah, TBBP version of TopModel has no problem with seams and textures for me as well.  I use Bodyslide2 included in the HDT Body 1.4 to create HDT body meshes for UNP/UNP TM to test out collision but mainly for the belly node effect to give the illusion of breathing for PC and followers.  I don't know how Bodyslide2 works, I just set the pull down menu and click.  I cannot find information whether the seams are inherent issues with HDT Body 1.4 for Bodyslide2 or compatibility with texture mods or hand/leg meshes.  I have tried every combo of mesh/texture mods now and the only thing with no seams is vanilla TBBP TopModel so I think the problem lies with HDT Bodyslide2 1.4.  Too bad that mod is no longer in development. 

 

 

[gvman3670]

There's the problem. BS2 spits out, regardless of what form you force the body into, a CBBE body. It may be shaped almost like a Top Model body, but in the end it's still a low-poly CBBE body that can't even use the right textures. You need to use CBBE textures for BodySlide bodies (not the UNP versions). The UNP hands and feet meshes won't even line up with a CBBE body mesh.

 

That's your problem. Just use the TM TBBP body. HDT should work just fine with it. And even if it didn't the TBBP animations themselves work phenomenally with the Top Model body. All sorts of jiggly stuff going on there.

 

If you really must use the BS2 body then be sure to use it's normal hand a feet meshes and get some decent looking CBBE textures to use. That 'should' fix your problem.

[zzz72w3r]

Thanks!  I did not know that BS2 spits out only low poly CBBE body mesh regardless of which pull down menu I chose.  So this is why the UNP textures not working!  I will stop using BS2 (I don't use OS so not a big deal) and revert back to 'real' UNP.  I will miss belly node movements though but since I don't use pregnancy mods that's not a deal breaker.  Perhaps I will give HDT body another try once the Unibody project is released (still not sure what that does based on what I read) and mods start using collision which is the reason I really want to use HDT body.