To what extent is being a canon nazi good for modding?

[herpman]

Couldn't resist a picture.

 

I never considered myself a fan of The Elder Scrolls, and had I not known about Skyrim I can't say I ever would be.

 

Leading up to the release of Skyrim, I was curious, so I decided I'd try out Oblivion, not being impressed, I looked to other... applications for that game, a search that ultimately led me here. By this point, I could care less about the story, the history of Tamriel, and the sociopolitical climate behind it. But there was still something oddly compelling about Skyrim, more than just a new version of the engine to load with smut mods. At release, the price was prohibitive because I had resolved to purchase LoZ for the Wii in an attempt to validate my owning one still, knowing by the time I completed it, Steam would likely have a sale.

 

The sale came and went and I had a new digital frontier to spend my time in, I couldn't call it perfect, but I was already having fun before the character creation was even over with.

A couple weeks in and I have a level 40 something thief. Skyrim has thoroughly made me a TES fan. I find myself picking up books and reading them so I might learn more about the world around me. I've gone to a wiki and begun reading up on all the races, dedicating a week to hunt down and read relevant information on my spare time to each race individually.

 

This week, I'm reading up on Khajiit and I came across references to Daggerfall's literature.

 

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Real_Barenziah,_Part_IV

 

Sure, think what you will, but this blatantly nsfw portion of the book series speaks of more depth to the races. In Oblivion's mods, to my knowledge, race had very little effect on people's interaction outside of the vanilla gameplay's effect of how much NPC's will like you. Dunmer women weren't easier to bed, nor were other races harder to get. And, well, lets just say Khajiit may have claws, but that was the only 'melee advantage' you'd know of with the mods available for Oblivion.

 

I'm putting forth a plea, before skyrim modding really truly takes flight, to consider lore. If we can construct an easy to read racial characteristic database we could really help modding and general dialogue be more immersive as well as help people understand the races better. Also, the more people you draw in, the more possibility you'll find *gasp* competent voice actors.

 

Also, in the counter, how much do you think is too much? I don't think every conversation needs to be particularly enlightening, and I hate always having to hear some character tell me their life story when I just walk by.

 

Preemptive clarification: I don't feel strongly one way or the other about mods that don't follow canon. I'm not the sort to raise issue with something that the creator clearly doesn't want involved with the story. Secondly, if I don't like someone's mod, I simply don't download it and move on, the only time I comment on how something is made or give my opinion on what they should do is when I like something, but feel it could be better. The last thing I want is for this topic to become a lightning rod for a flamewar regarding pro-canon and non-canon. While I would personally enjoy a survival mod with eat/drink/warmth requirements for skyrim, I don't think conventional Realism applies to a game where there are dragons, and one of your best weapons against them is essentially cursing them out of the sky.

 

So, things I'm hoping to get out of this:

• Some decent ideas on universal format for a racial info sheet that would be able to aid any modder who sought it out. This would remove the necessity of lore friendly modders to browse page after page of wiki and somewhat streamline the process if done accurately.
  
• Peoples' general opinion on whether this sort of awareness helps or hinders the game.
  
• More lore friendly mods.
  

 

[Ryanhabs]

While there are plenty of lore friendly mods for both oblivion and already for skyrim, certain aspects of what you mention in your post point more to the limitations of the game engine or limitation of the available tools to modify said engine. To make one race have a completely different AI than another race (personality wise) would be an astronomical amount of scripting (at least that is my assumption) as you would be altering not only Dunmer but you would be doing AI and behavioral alterations for males and females of each different race. Is it doable? maybe, wont know until we get to see exactly what the creation kit will have to offer as far as tools. Will it be done? I would guess no as it would need to be done by more than one or two people.

 

Also, you have to bring in personal preference... I for one loved Oblivion only after I could set up my world like an anime fan's paradise. All the women transformed in to crazy good looking versions of their vanilla selves. The male characters made to look like they just hopped out of a final fantasy game, off the wall weapons and embarrassingly skimpy clothing for everyone! That is what I personally like in a fantasy game like TES series games. Others can't stand what I like and still others like a little of both.

While your idea is good, after looking at all the things it would require... I would say it would be doubtful that you will see a mod that does everything you would like to see (unless you make it). More or less you will have to search like everyone else and piece together your "perfect world" little by little settling for what is close to your ideals.

[herpman]

Well, as far as I'm concerned the actual AI could remain as is, this sort of information would simply go into dialogue trees and there'd be a minimal contextual effect outside of PC to NPC conversation. For example, people ingame will already comment on your race, "You'll make a nice rug, cat!" when a character attacks a Khajiit, or even refer to their own race like "You should have known better than to fight a Dunmer!" Of course these are in combat, but it carries over to instances where in conversation an NPC will refer to you by race. The only way AI would have to be different is based on determining a character's age in case of the dunmer, younger dunmer might be more foreward and approach characters more often than others, or be approached due to their reputation as such. I remember in oblivion, with the stalking mod, stalking levels were configurable by gender (and creatures) so no doubt that's possible.

 

I don't expect anything to come of this in the immediate future, just food for thought, more or less. Also, I'm not concerned with aesthetic canon, that's like the difference between Magnificent Seven and Seven Samurai, same story, different setting. I can't wait for the CK to come out, I probably won't be using it, myself, but the mods are a sure bet.

 

With mods I've come to expect not so much finding one good one, but a mix that blend well together and fulfill your expectations. But an example to the contrary, for me, would be Project Nevada, after getting that mod for New Vegas, I didn't feel like I needed any others.