Fomm or NMM and why?

[Womb Raider]

There are (at least) two issues with using NMM and FOMM on the same game. In current versions of NMM and FOMM the default directories are "c:\games\<game>\" for FOMM and "c:\games\nexus mod manager\<game>\" for NMM. To use them both for the same game, you need to change one or the other so they use the same directory. If you do that and run NMM, the next time you run FOMM:

 

1. NMM "upgrades" the InstallLog.xml file to a format FOMM does not understand. This used to simply crash FOMM, if you use my version it will display an error and exit.

 

2. NMM uses a different system for setting the load order, one that is also used by new versions of Wrye.

 

Issue #1 is the main stumbling block. If you use FOMM and then accidentally use NMM, you can restore a backup of the xml file -- FOMM and NMM automatically create these. If you've never used FOMM and want to switch to it from NMM, you won't have an FOMM compatible backup of the file to switch to.

 

I intend to address both of these issues in FOMM but this string of 2GB issues has held me up -- one problem at a time. I think all that is fixed now so this is next on my list.

 

As an aside, I am also one of the mod authors that will not offer support to people using NMM (or no mod manager at all). I don't trust it to properly install complex mods and it's had trouble doing so in the past. I also don't like the attitude (for lack of a better word) of the Nexus admins or NMM developers, and therefore do not want to encourage people to use their "product"

 

Thank you for your explanation! I'll download your version of FOMM once it's been updated.

[prideslayer]

You should probably read updates in the FOMM download thread.

[Ursa585]

I know that this is a necrothreading as a first post, but I feel this is relevant and important in the sense that it certainly made my life better with FO3 and NV modding. Has anyone tried Mod Organizer? (http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/1334/?) I used to get to a point in debugging my mod tree where it ended up being easier to erase everything and reinstall them one at a time, that has not happened to me since MO.  It's current version is made for Skyrim, but it works alright with Fallout-  the biggest problem is that FOMM installers don't seem to work at all, its features let it work around this easily enough for most mods, and its a small price to pay for its ability to never overwrite anything, and revert changes instantly. . . in my opinion. If you're starting with a clean install I highly recommend it. 

 

[Vyxenne]

I started using NMM a couple of years ago when I first started modding Skyrim because all the mods I used were on Nexus. At that point, I had never heard of Lovers Lab, much less any of the mods hosted here. Later, when I discovered Sexlab for Skyrim, I continued to use NMM because it worked 100% of the time, was well-documented on the Nexus and elsewhere, frequently updated and intuitive to use. I haven't experienced any NMM crashes  with more recent versions of NMM, i.e. for over a year.

 

Then, when I began playing FNV (yes, I know, I discovered Skyrim and FNV in reverse order) I still continued to use NMM for the same reasons outlined above, even after I installed Sexout and related mods.

 

Then I encountered a comment in the LL forums to the effect that my mods that I had already installed (some manually but most with NMM) and that worked just fine would suddenly be unsupported if I didn't use FOMM. Huh?

 

So, experiencing a twinge of resentment at being semi-forced into using an unknown-to-me mod manager to replace one that worked perfectly, under threat of non-support for long-installed mods, like a good little zombie-chick I downloaded and installed FOMM and tried to use it. I had the following "issues" with it:

• It is not at all similar to NMM to use, nor is it at all intuitive to use.
• Despite hours of research online, although I found snippets here and snippets there, I was not able to discover any clear, comprehensive documentation on how to use FOMM. If it is documented somewhere, I couldn't find it. Most of what I found is written in moddese, in other words, by expert mod authors FOR expert mod authors. No user-level how-to's exist as far as I can tell.
• I read several online "advices" to the effect that if you already have many mods installed using NMM, it is not advisable to try to transition to FOMM (or MO, for that matter). Further poking around in FOMM and the readme, I was not able to find any way to cleanly let FOMM "take over" an existing body of installed mods for my FNV installation. So my only option for using FOMM seemed to be to blow up my perfectly-working FNV installation and game-in-progress and start over. I saw no point to doing this, and many drawbacks, so I opted out of that.
• I was not able to discover any authoritative writeup outlining any functional differences between FOMM and NMM as far as installing, uninstalling and managing Fallout mods for the average (non-modder) FNV player. Why is FOMM supposedly better? No one is saying in any objective way, other than the not-so-veiled threat of non-support for mods by the same author. What does it do that NMM doesn't do for the average FO3 and FNV player? No one is saying.
• The vast majority of all FO3 and FNV mods are on the Nexus. Unless you have a "premium" membership there, so-called "manual" downloads are very slow and unreliable. (They may be the same for "premium" members, I don't know because I am not one.) So for the Nexus, the most reliable way to download larger mods is using the "Download with Manager" button. That button does not launch FOMM, it launches NMM. So in the same way that VHS format won out over the allegedly superior Betamax format, through sheer weight of numbers, NMM wins out over FOMM for ease and reliability of use with the Nexus- in other words, with 95% or more of the mods any FNV player will ever use.
• Several posters in this thread and elsewhere have mentioned that FOMM (apparently) does things that NMM doesn't do. While I'm sure that's a warm fuzzy for some people, all I want or need for a mod manager to do is install, uninstall, enable and disable my mods in an intuitive way that I can deal with without obtaining a PhD in mod authoring. NMM does that perfectly. Any other functionality is meaningless to me because I neither want nor need it. I use BOSS (now LOOT) to set my load order, I use FNVEdit to clean mods and create my Merged Patches and or MUMify my mods and I use the GECK if I decide that my Sexy Negligee needs a high armor value so I can sashay into the desert and fight in my underwear.

So that's my experience trying to replace NMM with FOMM. It simply didn't work out at all for me. YMMV.

[prideslayer]

Then I encountered a comment in the LL forums to the effect that my mods that I had already installed (some manually but most with NMM) and that worked just fine would suddenly be unsupported if I didn't use FOMM. Huh?

This is my personal stance as the author of Sexout, and it was not 'sudden'. I don't provide support or troubleshooting of install related problems if any method other than FOMM is used -- never have. This goes not just for NMM but Wrye/BAIN, MO, and manual installs as well.

 

So, experiencing a twinge of resentment at being semi-forced into using an unknown-to-me mod manager

Nobody is forcing anyone to do anything, nobody has even been 'semi-forced' whatever that means. I likewise won't be 'forced' to provide support for people using unsupported (this is what unsupported means) install methods.

 

Despite hours of research online, although I found snippets here and snippets there, I was not able to discover any clear, comprehensive documentation on how to use FOMM.

Hours?

 

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=installing+mods+fomm

 

I was not able to find any way to cleanly let FOMM "take over" an existing body of installed mods for my FNV installation.

There isn't one. Same goes for OBMM.

 

Why is FOMM supposedly better? No one is saying in any objective way, other than the not-so-veiled threat of non-support for mods by the same author. What does it do that NMM doesn't do for the average FO3 and FNV player? No one is saying.

The reasons I started developing my own fork of FOMM were quite clearly documented in the download thread for FOMM. Most were related to the old/official FOMM, very few had anything to do with NMM -- other than it simply not being a Nexus product, as many of us here have a problem with that site. The main one regarding NMM (binary files not installing) is no longer true.

 

I'm not concerned with the "average" player, I'm concerned with the LL player -- specifically those using Sexout.

 

Finally, there's no "threat". If anything, it's a bribe. Use FOMM (which I also develop and support) and get Sexout support from the author! For free!

 

so-called "manual" downloads are very slow and unreliable.

They are exactly as fast as the NMM downloads (unless you pay), and exactly as reliable. I know this because I've looked in and modified the NMM source -- it uses the same list. All it does in addition to the manual download is automatically retry other servers, up to 5 times. It's the nexus servers as a whole that are unreliable.

 

You like NMM. Fine. Use it. I use it myself for Skyrim. None of us really cares.

 

If you use NMM and install Sexout or Sexout mods, and they don't install properly, don't expect help from me or a few others who feel as I do. Hardly a threat.

[Guest tomm434]

Somehow I knew what Pridelslayer would say before even looking inside this thread

 

Regarding the topic, I used NMM myself back then but switched to FOMM because it has so many features(like BSA browser or FOMOD creator). The only good thing about NMM in my opinion is that it can scan Nexus for newer versions of the mod and that's why for Skyrim imho it's better.

[prideslayer]

FOMM is getting that feature before tooooo long, tomm. It used to have it, but I ripped it out, because:

 

1. It was buggy. Version #s with letters in them and such would crash FOMM. Versions with more than one . were truncated, so "Sexout 2.6.85" became just 2.6.

 

2. It only knew how to talk to Nexus. Niv has started work on a system that will allow it to check LL or any other mod hosting site, as specified in the fomod.

 

As for my response.. I detest hyperbole and the hints of an entitlement mentality. I've never "threatened" anyone on LL, nor "forced" anyone here to use FOMM, and I don't owe support to anyone. It's a gift I give away to those I believe are worthy, step 1 in being worthy means using FOMM.

 

EDIT: NMM still has problem #1 AFAIK, and *will* always (intentionally) have problem #2.

[Halstrom]

I started with FOMM and can't be bothered changing and disturbing the delicate ecosystem that is my FalloutNewVegas. I tired NMM for Skyrim and then changed to ModOrganiser for Skyrim and it did seem a lot better and I may be tempted to go that way for New Vegas/TTW but only if I was forced to do a complete reinstall but I'm also quite satisfied with Prideslayers version of FOMM, it does the job just fine for me.

[RitualClarity]

Fear change. MO has its issues with FNV. You really need to understand  the mods, extractions, repacking etc. One issue is getting FOMM scripted mods to work through FOMM and then importing them into MO and another is getting the HUds to work as each mod requires the ability to see the others. MO keeps them separate. Doable but can be a headache if you are used to FOMM unless the added features of Mod separation, profiles and conflict resolution is more appealing to you.