bones, skins and other crap i need help with...

[delilah]

blaabla, i just saw you had posted on 5/10 a video of the warhammer loincloth.  that is exactly the armor i am having trouble with.  you have GOTTA tell me  how you got it to work so i can use it in my super skimpy version.  and possibly convert it for other armors i am working on...
here is what i have so far.
 
top-down, left-right we have:
 
Warhammer, Ageha Abyss Walker
 
Berserker Steel, Deathshell
 
Diano, Fiona Valkyrie
 
High Elf Paladin and Inquisitor
 
Rysio, Silverlight
 
Viridinium, Xenocite
 
 

 

 

 

EDIT:

 

YAY!  i ended up starting over from scratch and i was able to get the armor in game with a working loincloth.  there are a couple issues, though...  for one, i need to clean up the boots because there is a LOT of clipping on the calf. secondly, there are 2 loincloths.  they line up perfectly until they move, then you can see them.  they both work, and they both look great, though.  i also need to tweak the weight painting on the trinkets.  got some really bad distortion on one of them. um... the loincloths "flap in the breeze".  idk why but even when the character is not moving, the loin cloths are.  they just kinda spin in a circle a bit....  also want to see about adding ground detection, and leg collision, and get the hdt breast to work while wearing the armor, and possible re-weight the bodies a little bit. gotta figure how the different setting affect things.  all in all i think it was a huge success.

 

i will see if i can get a video posted to youtube  romorrow after i try to fix some of these things.

 

[delilah]

i was finally able to get a good working version of the warhammer loincloth into the game but there are still a couple small issues.  feel free to see it here:

 

http://youtu.be/5KPW5aMEuaw

 

if anyone know why there are 2 loincloths please feel free to let me know.  there is only supposed to be one, and only one shows up in max ans nifskope.  but in game there are 2...  odd.

 

also, when standing still, i get a lot of wobble at the top of the cloth.  i think this is either from collisions with the duplicate, or with the thighs.  i tried using jff to make edits to the xml, they all it did was corrupt the file. 

 

Lastly, does anyone know how i can add the breast collision to go along with the loincloth? 

[blabba]

2 loincloths mean their are 2 meshes somewhere.

 

Also, don't add breast collision to your loincloth xml's

 

That's for the body/breast xml to dictate. Keep your xml's modular and do not let them overlap.

 

You are also free to use my generic loincloth xml if you so wish, though with Groovy's new skeleton coming out I believe it will be outdated.

[delilah]

thats the thing...  i have no idea where a second mesh is coming from.

 

how do i add the breast  collision to the armor without effecting the loincloth?  i usually attach the breast collision to the main ninode, but i saw that each node has an option for the extra data....  so, do i attach the breast xml to the cuirass and the loin cloth xml to just the loin cloth? how do i make sure they dont overlap?

 

 

 

a skeleton with loincloth support would be awsome, but i noticed that quite often things like that are unused.  for instance, i rarely ever see anyone using the skirt bones, cloak bones or the long hair bones.  i may be wrong, but i think it is because they dont have enough bones.  the loin cloth in the video has 8 bones in it

 

 

EDIT:

 

i have been messing with this loin cloth all day and i cannot seem to figure out a solution...

 

i thought maybe the double sided flag in nifskope was causing it...  nope.  so, blabba must be right about there being a second mesh.  but, where is it, why cant i find it, and how is it getting into the nif?

 

i tried various methods to make a 0 and 1 version for  the slider to work on the outfit...  nothing worked.  I even took my base nif that has the working (yet doubled) loincloths and removed all of the nodes except the bones and the loincloth...  then i used bodyslide created highs and lows and then cut/pasted the missing armor nodes in.  that gave me a high and low weight based on my bodyslide preset each having the loincloth and hdt bones.  that didnt work.  although all the meshes had the same vertec counts, the armor exploded at anything other than 1 or 0

 

i have tried making a standalone item using the forearm or lower leg dismember...  still no good.  either the cloth is missing in game or the cloth AND body are missing...

 

 

please please help!

 

[blabba]

Ehh,

 

Bodysliding HDT movement armours is usually not a good idea as you mess up the collision parameters.

Also, if your nif has a baked in skeleton as opposed to using the skeleton.nifs as a reference I think their is a problem with bodyslide handling that.

Not sure, I think I tried bodysliding an HDT armour way back but it didn't end well. I forgot the specifics of why though.

 

@Delilah, not true for the loincloth xml using the bones available in XPMS. It's the same bones and position used for the HDT china dress and was the one I tested with the Sorcerress Armour. The reason why no one uses the XPMS bones is because XPMS is hell to work with as a modder and breaks a lot of standards set by the vanilla skeleton.

 

Your right about not enough cape & tail bones though. However, groovtama fixed that in his newest skeleton.

I'll see about updating my generic skeleton xml with a reference nif and the new bones attached to it when I get some time.

[delilah]

Ehh,

 

Bodysliding HDT movement armours is usually not a good idea as you mess up the collision parameters.

Also, if your nif has a baked in skeleton as opposed to using the skeleton.nifs as a reference I think their is a problem with bodyslide handling that.

Not sure, I think I tried bodysliding an HDT armour way back but it didn't end well. I forgot the specifics of why though.

 

@Delilah, not true for the loincloth xml using the bones available in XPMS. It's the same bones and position used for the HDT china dress and was the one I tested with the Sorcerress Armour. The reason why no one uses the XPMS bones is because XPMS is hell to work with as a modder and breaks a lot of standards set by the vanilla skeleton.

 

Your right about not enough cape & tail bones though. However, groovtama fixed that in his newest skeleton.

I'll see about updating my generic skeleton xml with a reference nif and the new bones attached to it when I get some time.

 

i downloaded the new xpms pe skeleton yesterday...  i also have the updated  hdt extensions xxx-13, AND i downloaded your hdt bodyslide body.  the painting on that is fantastic, btw.. all of this is well and good but  ALL of my reference bodies are now slightly misshapen.  it takes time to sort out the bones actually being used, reposition your reference, skin and weight it, and then check it with a previous armor to verify the consistency.  also, i have seen the china dress bones, and they dont seem any different from the normal skirt bones.  what would be nice would be to have 2 chains for the loin cloths that reach the ground.  6-8 bones in the front, 8-10 in the back.  im sure a slider could be made to adjust their positioning for bodysliding....  anyways...  thats my 2 cents.

 

i have no idea how you would bake bones into a nif...

 

if i had a custom skeleton with acceptable loincloth bones, could i use that as a replacement for the skeletons provided in the res folder of bodyslide?

 

how can i create a costume skeleton if all i wanted to do was add a few bones to the xpms skeleton?

 

lastly (for now) if i had a skeleton with loincloth bones in bodyslide how would i create a slider that would translate the parent bone so it is further from the body core or higher or lower?

 

oops, one more....  regarding armor explosions.  if i have a _0 and a _1 nif.  and all meshes in them have the same verts and everything because they were made in bodyslide...  does the ordering of the nodes made any difference?  for instance if the _0 nodes are ordered BaseShape, top, belt, boots, but the _1 nifs nodes are ordered BaseShape, belt, boots, top.  would that cause the armor to explode in game when not at 0 or 1?

 

and lastly, one more rememberence...  when i was creating the  warhammer loincloth i started out on the standard skelly.  the one i use for all my armor editing.  at some point i switched to the minimum skelly with just dummies.  in doing so i was messing with scene and object references.  the latter being something o know nothing about...  i ended up referencing the armor scene into the bummy skeleton scene and carrid on from there.

 

is it possible that the extra mesh in my armor  is because of some bullshit i fucked up when i was messing with the object references?  how can i find out and how can i fix it?

 

oooh, one final ultimate thing....  i found the cloak i made ages ago (it seems) and made a little video showcase with the loincloth, the cloak, and meridas hair.  notice there are actually 2 flappy bits to the cloak.  it needs its bodies adjusted a bit to be less spastic...  but it doesnt have the duplicated mes like the loin cloth

 

http://youtu.be/dKrQeMB7_ng

[delilah]

fed up with the double loincloth on warhammer robes, i decided to start over from scratch...  i took my time, made sure everything was correct...

 

duplicate loincloth yet again.

 

i just dont know why this is happening.

 

i will post my max scenes in a little bit.  there are 3 of them i think... one with everything set up for the preview, one just before the xml export and the last just before exporting the nif.  i will also post the nif and xml files.

 

if you can please tell me where i am fucking this up?  i think the armor looks and moves fantastic...  except for the extra loin cloth

 

here are the 2 max scenes, then xml and the nifs.  Delila's loincloth debacle.rar

[delilah]

i found a solution.

 

i dont understand why it works, but it does:

 

1. i delete the BSDismember modifier from just the loincloth mesh
2. export as usual and save it.
3. open the nif select the nitrishape node for the loincloth...  and delete it.
4. save this nif as warhammer_0 and _1.  do not overwrite the nif file you exported!
5. re-open the nif file you just exported.
6. delete all the other nitrishape nodes, including the baseShape node.  all that should remain is the nitrishape for the loincloth mesh, and the ninode containing all of the bones.
7. add the nistringextradata stuff and save as whatever.

 

after no. 7 it gets tricky.you need a new item now.  i used the cloak i had done before...  i just renamed the loincloth files and overwrote the cloak files.  when i went back in game the armor worked as its supposed to but without the loincloth.  once i put on the "cloak"  the loin cloth appeared.  and NO DUPLICATE!!

 

like i said...  i dont know why it works this way and im sure there is a better way, or some one will create one soon...  but im gonna go with it until then.

 

[delilah]

i recently re-installed skyrim and am working on getting beck to the state i was in before.  i seem to be having an issue with hdt at the moment.  every armor i add flappity bits to seems to come out all fucked up in some fashion.  either the flappity bit does not move at all in relation to the root, or it coes fucking ape-shit like electrocuting an octopus or it crashes to desktop.  i have no ides what the issue is.  i have been working on one single armor lately and the only consistancy i have is the inconsistancy of the results.  also...  as a test, i added a few bones to the default outfit studio skeleton to see if it would then allow me to pass an hdt armor through without deleting the new bones.  it worked!  so i made up a new skeleton with better placed bones and all bones not get ignored when i load a reference...

 

anyways, im calling out to anyone who may know what i am doing wrong here.  the goal is to have a basic skeleton for outfit studio i can use that allows me to pass all my flappity bits project armors through so they can be body-slided.  if you need the max files of my nifs etc, just ask and i will send them.

 

also, on a different tack...  i have been using the ciceria folower (http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/53148/?) and i think yoos short merida hair would look awsome on her...  does anyone know how i can manage that? 

 

thanks in advance!