Advice - what to upgrade next? - New Info, new question, post #37

[Pkatt]

Ok, lets start by saying I have a very limited budget.   I build my own machines, and just usually upgrade them piece by piece as I can.  Right now times are hard!   I have about $75 in the upgrade budget right now, and it just increases about $20 a month except on special occasions.

 

My current machine has the following  (don't laugh!)

 

AMD Athlon 64 X2 dual core cpu   4600+ @2.41 ghz

ASUS M2N32 SLI deluxe motherboard

4 Gb RAM

2 Gb Geforce 770 superclocked

1 Tb HDD + 120 Gb HDD

Seasonic 760W modular power supply

Windows 7 32-bit

 

 

So I know that the CPU and Mobo should be the next big upgrade.   But obviously thats going to also be a major expense.  I also know that I need to migrate to a 64 bit OS, but I hate to format.   And I need more memory.  I haven't increased it beyond 4 Gb because I have heard that a 32 bit OS won't utilize more than 4 Gb.

 

So here are the options I have thought of-

 

 - buy a SSD to just run the OS only on, and install a copy of Windows 7 64 bit.  I can do that for the cost of the drive, which I think I could get with what I have now, and I have a 64 bit copy of Windows already that I can use.  this way I don't have to format, I just install it on the SSD and start reinstalling programs.  I think

 

 - increase my memory

 

 - possibly look for a used quad core chip that will fit my motherboard for less than $50 somewhere. 

 

 - just keep plugging along with this and start immediately saving for a new motherboard/cpu/memory.   This will take a while.

 

 

So I guess what I am asking is opinions on what you would do to upgrade, and why, and in what order?     This machine is used for gaming 90% of the time.  

 

[blabba]

Meh, your specs are better than mine. (Core 2 Duo and 9600 GT FTW!!!)

 

Personally, I'd say just try holding out for this year, wait for the new stuff from Nvidia and Intel to come out, and then finally buy their last year's release when it goes on sale because it's suddenly 'outdated'.

 

Intel's supposed to release Broadwell this year (just a die shrink), and Nvidia is supposed to release the 800 series (new architecture)

 

I suspect especially around christmas time this year, for some good sales from your local computer stores as they try to sell of any 'old' inventory as they rush to stock up on the 'new' stuff.

 

Then again I'm no financial expert nor really experienced in all this. I just follow the general principle of buying comp parts around the end of every year, and if I do, I buy the 'last generation' of whatever is the current generation.

[LaEspada]

I would get more RAM but that's just me. 6-8 is pretty safe. 4 is a little low for me.

[RitualClarity]

What can't you do with the computer you have now?

That can give a better idea of what you need if you actually need anything.

[gvman3670]

RAM. Get 4gig of RAM.

[Pkatt]

What can't you do with the computer you have now?

That can give a better idea of what you need if you actually need anything.

 

Well, I guess I  just want to be able to run games smoother.    My last big upgrade was the video card and power supply.    That enabled me to run games on high settings, instead of med or low like I had been having to do.   But still, when I try to run them on ultra, and sometimes on high, they still seem to not have as high a frame rate as I would like.   I would rather have a high smooth frame rate than have it stutter. 

 

I'm wondering if the 32 bit OS as opposed to a 64 bit OS is hindering me.   And will it be a problem as more things are written?  I've heard that a 64 bit OS will use the two cores and more memory more efficiently.  Or is the 32 bit OS ok for the foreseeable future and not worth the jump and hassle of reinstalling?

 

And the memory, if I increase it, will it help much with the 32 bit OS?  I have always heard that 32 bit OS's won't recognize over 4 Gbs, so there is no point in increasing it, if you are 32 bit.   Is that true?

 

I guess those are my two big questions, as I think about it.    Games that I am talking about (other than Bethesda ones) are stuff like Bioshock Infinite, Tomb Raider, Witcher 2, to name a few.

 

[RitualClarity]

 

I'm wondering if the 32 bit OS as opposed to a 64 bit OS is hindering me.

Doubt it. Most games only use 2gigs of memory or less. Some of the mods have higher needs and requirements. It wouldn't hurt changing it out.

 

And the memory, if I increase it, will it help much with the 32 bit OS?

No. You can't access more memory than 4 gigs. Many machines access even less. One machine I had only accessed 2.7 gigs. Still at that time it was a very good improvement. 8 gigs should do you very good with your x64 bit OS install.

 

Well, I guess I  just want to be able to run games smoother.

The idea that you have of getting an SSD and installing it with x64 OS should help some games run a little smoother. The SSD can serve up files quicker than a regular mechanical Hard Drive. This can help with the lag entering after a load screen, Like exiting from a bulding in FNV, Skyrim etc. It helped my gaming become more responsive.

 

2 Gb Geforce 770 superclocked  That enabled me to run games on high settings, instead of med or low like I had been having to do.   But still, when I try to run them on ultra, and sometimes on high, they still seem to not have as high a frame rate as I would like.

If the above isn't solving the problems for you and you use any high graphic requirements you might have to dial back the mods (texture enb mods etc) or unfortunately might need to get a second card or upgrade the current card.

 

 

[gvman3670]

I didn't notice that you were running W7 in 32bit. I'd get x86 version and upgrade to 8gig of RAM. That would be your best performance bet at this point I would think. Your PSU and GPU are good enough, but I'd think your bottleneck is RAM at this point.

[Pkatt]

Thanks, I was thinking that the SSD + 64 bit + RAM might be the way to go for now, then start saving for a new CPU and motherboard for next year or sometime.

 

If I do that, I suppose the thing to do would be reinstall Steam, and let it reinstall each game?  Or will they just run, if they are already on the drive?

[RitualClarity]

 

If I do that, I suppose the thing to do would be reinstall Steam, and let it reinstall each game?  Or will they just run, if they are already on the drive?

Steam can be copied and run again from another drive or even a different computer all together. I even copy the entire steam folder off onto an external drive as a backup and use it to restore when needed. Click on the Steam.exe in the steam folder and follow the prompts if your shortcut don't work anymore. (IE move the folder. ) .

 

If memory serves me correctly that should work. I would backup the entire folder if you are migrating the game or making any changes to the Steam folder in this process just in case.

[NTaylor]

Your biggest hurdle in my oppinion to upgrading that computer is the fact that your motherboard only takes DDR2 RAM, if it took DDR3 I would say get the 64 bit OS and more RAM then upgrade MOBO/CPU later but if you do that with a DDR2 board then you would also have to buy DDR3 RAM as well at the same time you upgraded that making it a bit of a waste of money. My sugestion would probably be to save for a new MOBO/CPU/RAM and get 4 GB DDR3 to start then up  that later.

However that is realistically only if you can afford the new MOBO/CPU/RAM in a reasonable time otherwise just upping the memory may be a better option.

[Hitom]

Cheapest and most needed would be an SSD imo. 

[...0...]

Ok, lets start by saying I have a very limited budget.   I build my own machines, and just usually upgrade them piece by piece as I can.  Right now times are hard!   I have about $75 in the upgrade budget right now, and it just increases about $20 a month except on special occasions.

 

My current machine has the following  (don't laugh!)

 

AMD Athlon 64 X2 dual core cpu   4600+ @2.41 ghz

ASUS M2N32 SLI deluxe motherboard

4 Gb RAM

2 Gb Geforce 770 superclocked

1 Tb HDD + 120 Gb HDD

Seasonic 760W modular power supply

Windows 7 32-bit

 

 

So I know that the CPU and Mobo should be the next big upgrade.   But obviously thats going to also be a major expense.  I also know that I need to migrate to a 64 bit OS, but I hate to format.   And I need more memory.  I haven't increased it beyond 4 Gb because I have heard that a 32 bit OS won't utilize more than 4 Gb.

 

So here are the options I have thought of-

 

 - buy a SSD to just run the OS only on, and install a copy of Windows 7 64 bit.  I can do that for the cost of the drive, which I think I could get with what I have now, and I have a 64 bit copy of Windows already that I can use.  this way I don't have to format, I just install it on the SSD and start reinstalling programs.  I think

 

 - increase my memory

 

 - possibly look for a used quad core chip that will fit my motherboard for less than $50 somewhere. 

 

 - just keep plugging along with this and start immediately saving for a new motherboard/cpu/memory.   This will take a while.

 

 

So I guess what I am asking is opinions on what you would do to upgrade, and why, and in what order?     This machine is used for gaming 90% of the time.  

 

CPU but prolly not in your budget.

 

Replace windows 32bit ASAP

 

Pitty you already have videocard its way to overpriced and at moment to powerfull for this system.

 

Don't stick to brands if you are on such low budgets just suggestion for future ...you will save up alot more that way.

 

My advice keep saving little longer and replace motherboard plus CPU then you can also replace ram.

 

[Advint]

I read nothing from this thread so here goes... upgrade the lights because the lights make everything go faster, DONE!

[RitualClarity]

 

My current machine has the following  (don't laugh!)

 

AMD Athlon 64 X2 dual core cpu   4600+ @2.41 ghz

ASUS M2N32 SLI deluxe motherboard

4 Gb RAM

2 Gb Geforce 770 superclocked

1 Tb HDD + 120 Gb HDD

Seasonic 760W modular power supply

Windows 7 32-bit.  

 

CPU but prolly not in your budget.

 

Replace windows 32bit ASAP

 

Pitty you already have videocard its way to overpriced and at moment to powerfull for this system.

 

Don't stick to brands if you are on such low budgets just suggestion for future ...you will save up alot more that way.

 

My advice keep saving little longer and replace motherboard plus CPU then you can also replace ram.

 

 

The motherboard looks like it has PCI express x16 1.0 slots. The current is PCI express x16 3.0 slots. The graphic card you have is a PCI express x16 3.0 compliant graphic card. Very powerful and likely being held back because of the slower bandwith of the 1.0 slot you have.

 

To put it in perspective If you were to compare the speed accessibility on a new motherboard with a 3.0 slot your card is currently running at a x4 speed instead of the x16 that it could run on a newer motherboard. When you are able to upgrade the motherboard the graphic capacity will jump greatly just by that change alone.

 

Second note. DDR2 memory is expensive for what you get. You can run DDR 800 when most current system are running DDR 1600. That is at a minimum twice as fast. It is somewhat noticeable. I have an old gaming rig that runs a PCI express x16 1.0 like yours. It is running DDR 1066. So I can be sure of these facts. Now even if you don't raise the memory, not necessary unless you are maxing out your memory. You still should use the 64 bit OS anyway as it will allow many programs you run to access the full amount of memory possible. Most programs are locked at 2gigs with a 32 bit system regardless if it can handle more.

 

Based on your budget and the fact you have the OS already. An SSD is the best first step. If memory starts to become limited, increase that. Then look and keep an eye out for Motherboard / Processor Combaniatons (hopefully with DDR 3 memory sales) to upgrade.

 

On the bright side. Soon Intel will be introducing new processors that will be using DDR4 memory. Even if you don't get the newest and greatest due to cost and budget the other intel processors / motherboards will drop in price which will allow you access to a system with PCI express x16 3.0 capable graphics and finally be able to fully access that massive powerful graphic card to its fullest potential.

 

[Rayblue]

AMD Athlon 64 X2 dual core cpu   4600+ @2.41 ghz

ASUS M2N32 SLI deluxe motherboard

4 Gb RAM

2 Gb Geforce 770 superclocked

1 Tb HDD + 120 Gb HDD

Seasonic 760W modular power supply

Windows 7 32-bit

 

CPU: You'll have to make a choice as to whether you'll go the Intel route or AMD -- not surprisingly Intel has an advantage for gamers and a lot of reasons, especially when you use discrete GPUs.

Motherboard: Again, there's midrange Intel-based models from Asus, Gigabyte or ASRock, all of them deliver very good performance.

GPU: I've been hearing the advantages of the Kepler from nVidia for the budget gameplayer, but that would soon be superseded by the Maxwells.

Memory: I'm using standard Kingston 1333s added up to 6gb without any issues, but go get them 1600s for the same price (or better yet, cheaper) -- 8gb is the best when you play modded Skyrim.

 

[Pkatt]

All very good insights, thank you!!

 

 

And you know, I didn't even think about that motherboard being PCI 1.0 vs 3.0    I knew when  I bought the card, that it would be backwards compatible and work, but I didn't think about the speed decrease because of it!    That does explain a lot, as to what I was expecting, vs what I am seeing.

 

 

[RitualClarity]

Yes, when you finally upgrade to a newer card you will be able to access the full power of the card you have. If it was a lesser card I would say don't even think about it however I am confident that the full bandwidth of that cards capacities aren't even been reached.

 

You may well be limited by the motherboard right now and even the SSD might not get you to where you want to be. That is ok, just dial the game back a bit to playable levels and save. In the future you will be able to make that small upgrade of the Motherboard / processor / ram and you will be golden. Even if you don't get the newest and greatest as long as you get the PCI x16 3.0 motherboard you will be able to go a long time before needing to upgrade again. Keep in mind currently the AMD don't have that slot. You can use the 2.0 slot however that will be outdated sooner than later. Reason I am not upgrading my GTX670 to the newer GTX770 or even the 780 card. I believe I am using the complete bandwidth as possible. Any more and it would be a waste. However unlike you I don't have any issues running the games at the resolution and frame-rate that I desire (currently if I start to run EMB that might change my mind).

[ethankcvds]

 Even if you don't get the newest and greatest as long as you get the PCI x16 3.0 motherboard you will be able to go a long time before needing to upgrade again. Keep in mind currently the AMD don't have that slot.

 

Actually AMD added support for PCI x16 3.0 in their new Kaveri APUs that got released here not to long ago. The only problem right at the moment is so far AMD has only released two Kaveri APUs.

[Spartan 363]

I would just save up for a new CPU/Mobo/RAM as yours is ancient and a major bottleneck for that GTX 770.  You should just keep saving up money until around black Friday/Cyber Monday and by an entire barebones kit that would let your GTX 770 fly.

 

With your current CPU/Mobo/RAM combo, you are only using about half of the potential of the GTX 770 because of the bottleneck from that ancient hardware you have.

 

An i3 with 8GB of RAM and mobo combo today that cost lets say less than $300 would blow your current setup away.  AMD has very good deals on their CPU's and such too.

[Pkatt]

I would just save up for a new CPU/Mobo/RAM as yours is ancient and a major bottleneck for that GTX 770.  You should just keep saving up money until around black Friday/Cyber Monday and by an entire barebones kit that would let your GTX 770 fly.

 

I was looking at them just last night.   Thinking more and more this may be the plan, after looking at the prices of DDR2 and SSDs.  Still will probably spring  for an SSD and transition to 64 bit OS first though.    then unless I can find some DDR2 just dirt cheap,  just go for the best Mobo/cpu/memory combo I can find later in the year.

[RitualClarity]

 

Still will probably spring  for an SSD and transition to 64 bit OS first though.

Keep in mind that the SSD will likely need to have Windows re-loaded when you change the MObo in the future anyway. Without the memory increase x64 won't do you much good. Change it out if you don't mind having to reload windows when you change the rest of the hardware. It would provide a nice boost in "responsiveness' However the speed will also be greatly limited as you are using Sata2.0 instead of Sata3.0 ports on that motherboard. (provided that it isn't actually Sata1.5 ports.)

 

Upgrade of memory might be an issue if this is correct

 

It states that you can only upgrade to 4 gigs.

[Guest]

You have a decent system that can handle most games on the market, so no need to rush anything. I don't know how much faster your AMD is compared to a Pentium though but I've heard you can't compare the frequencies directly. If you had a Pentium dual core 2.4Ghz, that would be a very tight bottleneck in your system.

[Pkatt]

You know, after doing something thinking, listening to you guys, and realizing the bottleneck is the motherboad (SATA, PCI), I'm starting to wonder if it would be prudent to just hold off.

 

I just realized the other day, that I have a 300 Gb Sata HDD that I forgot about, and am not using.  I could put Win 7 - 64 on that for basically free, anytime I want.   So rather than spend money now on an SSD, and DDR2 memory that I would have to change out the next upgrade, it may be better for me to instead save my money and use it for a new motherboard/cpu/memory combo,  and wait to  put the 64 bit OS on when I do that, and not worry about an SSD yet.    

 

From the looks of things, that may give me a far better performance boost for my money, if I am just a little more  patient.    what would be your thougts on that route?

[RitualClarity]

If the computer is functional, able to play the games, and you are willing to wait for the best upgrade the mobo, CPU, would be the best upgrade. You will have to live with the decreased performance of gaming and not be able to run at max frames, resolution, or with massive ENB mods etc until you do. The best dollar investment would be upgrading those components.

 

Not if you absolutely cannot stand the performance and need just a little boost the memory, SSD upgrade would work. The SSD could be used in the future however the Memory would be a waste. SSD would just allow faster access to the files (which would give a needed boost in game performance but slightly) but total speed of the data would be stuck at 60 to about 150 or so mb . Which is just fine for gaming.

 

I am likely going to resurrect an older gaming rig (intel) which has more powerful processor / memory etc but basically the same as your build. It was built about the same time as your hardware was. Faster processor (by a slight margin 2.8gighz) I will likly use it myself for some light "old school" gaming even using it for FNV and F03. Hell I can even play skyrim on my intel with integrated graphics (Intel 4000 graphics) if I am willing to turn off some shadows and AA. Plays it pretty good without heavy graphic mods as well.

 

Bottom line is what are you willing to put up with. How hard is it to get the funds to upgrade. You have to make that decision... You have lots of info from may members and many good points as well to help you make an informed decision for yourself. Good luck and Happy upgrading...