A little help from my friends

[Advint]

Yes I was thinking of a topic title and it resulted in a line from a song. But anyway, I was recently looking in to taking on UDK as a hobby and decided that as I get into it I should have a project to work towards. I came to some sort of semblance of a RPG with a throwback to the ways of Oblivion and Morrowind with its own key elements to make it unique (of course that being if I ever really get that far). But in order to have a goal to reach I needed to sort of list down the key elements of an RPG. Having done so I feel that the list is incomplete and so I am asking you all what you feel the key elements to an RPG are. What makes a good RPG, what makes you want to play one over again, etc. etc. As you list these things I will come back and edit this post so that we can try to avoid overlapping. Well all that said, thanks for any input as it will help me further my endeavors.

Community list of RPG elements:

-Player / NPC / Faction Backstory, with depth
-Compelling Gameplay storyline / questline
-The ability to choose
-Immersion
-Narrative Narrative Narrative.

[prideslayer]

Character back story and development, for the PC and any important NPCs/Factions. Everything else follows from that, for me anyway.

 

tl;dr example that some will certainly disagree with:

 

 

Ignoring all the previous games and lore, and how much you love/hate obsidian/bethesda, the PC backstory and motivation is the reason I find FO3 a better RPG than FONV. Giving the player a connection to the PC along with the motivation to continue the plot is really important to an RPG. There's value in some amount of a sandbox approach, but that is mostly contained within how you (the player) mentally 'decide' the PC is going to emotionally react to the situations they get into and out of.

 

I've always felt that FONV was a complete failure in this department. At the start of the game when you embark on your quest, you (the player) have no backstory or context for your character, and thus no motivation. In an extremely dangerous wasteland where you've already been shot in the head and left for dead, unless you're RPing someone with a serious mean/revenge streak or a "get the job done no matter what" type, there's no reason to progress the plot past Goodsprings. The revenge goal is satisfied if you smoke Bennie on the strip. There's no good motivation to continue beyond that point.

 

By contrast, your goal in FO3 is simple, if cliched. You're out looking for dad. Until you find him, you're not satisfied. Maybe you hate him for leaving. Maybe you love him and miss him. Maybe you just want to go find out what all the fuss is about. The point is that the motivation for going on around and through the hardships you encounter is with you throughout the game, no matter how silly the plot twists along the way or how badly it breaks from previous games canon.

 

I felt the same way with ME1 and ME2. After everything Cerberus did in ME1 to think you'd work with/for them in ME2 if you were anything but full on renegade is ludicrous to me.

 

FO3, ME1, and even ME3 I've played through multiple times. I've only played through ME2 once, and I haven't completed FONV, Oblivion, or Skyrim even once -- and this is the reason.

 

If you heartily disagree -- PM me. Don't derail the thread.

 

 

[Guest endgameaddiction]

Elements of an RPG revolve around a background and the way the character interacts with the world and other characters. Yes, I too found this very lacking in Fallout New Vegas. Being a mysertious Courier and getting shot in the head was too much for an introduction. Benny being this powerful chairman of The Tops, why would he stain his own hands on some nobody Courier when he can hire some thug to do his dirty work? This typical type of story line only works for comic book super hero stuff because it's completely fictional. Whereas New Vegas is supposed to be fiction to an extent, but the elements in the game are to be immerse, no?

 

it's important to introduce a background so that we the viewers see where the character comes from. Even in comic books this is essential. Any story in general. You didn't see Spiderman start off in the first 5mins of the movie being bitten by a spider and all of a sudden has these super powers. Because of this mysterious Courier, the character didn't grow into me. If there was ties in the past between this Courier and Benny then maybe I can see this happening. Even then, the aspects of that game in general just wasn't interesting. That's my opinion at least.

 

FO3 Spoiler (skip this if you haven't played FO3)

 

 

 

 

In Fallout 3, you do have a purpose.

 

1. You have a runaway dad.

2. You are foced to leave your home you grow up and adapt into this horriied wasteland that you will call your new home.

 

So you are now out in this world, alone. Who are you going to turn to for help? No one, but you sure are determined to find your father. This reloves a bond between the Vault Dweller and his/her father. Perhaps you thought it wasn't going to be as hard to find him. The wasteland proves you wrong. So by the time you find your dad, you aren't only excited, you are also ticked off for the painstaking traveling you had to do to finally find him. Then you come to understand why he left. Why it was truly important to him. It was important to him because it was important to Catherine. It wasn't just his dream, it was their dream. And if James had one last task to complete, It was to fulfill her side of the promise. To get the project purity up and running. Not for me... For the greater good of the world.

 

That is depth... No matter how corny it may seem to some people.

 

 

 

 

 

Need good character development. And it doesn't have to be this "chosen one" type of character for it to be good. I really liked FO3, but that's the only thing that I wish they would stop doing. You have to think that these open world games are huge. The certain character cannot be doing everything for everyone. Surely there has to be other ambitious people out there trying to make a difference in the world. i've mentioned this before, I think it would be a good idea if there was a way to initiate the DLC by starting as a new developed character. Never liked the fact of that main player being all over the place and fixing everyone else's problems as if they were Superman.

[TiredGerman]

I personally would advise you to stick to a more closed and personal Game, rather than making a full on Sandbox like Bethesda.

I had took a seminar with UDK  a while back and we built a 3D puzzler for four weeks almost full time with only a handful of levels.

 

Just the whole mechanics and assets that need to be made take a lot of time. Easily a month in hobby time.

 

So my advice: work out a good skript for the entire ordeal. possible choice points, Choice Branches that can merge. Keep the setting interessting while also somewhat stationary.

Example: A closed off City, with a whole lot of turmoil in the streets with barricades on almost every street. You desperate to break free. Do you go to the rebels, bribe an officer or do you sneak past them to a possible exit, only to find it locked off? Do you go the official routes an risk detection, or do you risk your life in the smugglers ring?

 

Scenarios like that. Simple drive, close and personal narative, locked setting.

[Advint]

Yea I, gathered as much as I delved into the vast reading material that goes along with the whole learning process. So I do agree that I should try to keep my aspirations contained as making a skyrim sized game with a few people would take a considerable amount of time. I was actually considering starting with the map contest in chivalry as I kind of formulated an idea for it. It also seemed like a safe starter project.

As well thank you for the advice, sometimes one needs to be reminded that they may be overreaching. 

[Pkatt]

for me, it is choices and immersion.    

 

If there are no choices to be made, then its just an adventure game.   to properly role play, you have to be able to make a choice, what would my character do, in this situation?    Too many games don't offer choices, or when they do, it feels like they are the same outcome.  Back when I DM'd tabletop rpgs, the one thing we always tried to accomplish, was to give the players the feeling that their choices mattered, and would affect their character's outcome.    Now behind the scenes, we would make the outcome what we wanted it to be, but on the surface, the player had to feel as though they were the one making the choices.   Thats the trick.