Game freezes in combat at Star light Drive in

plutocene · August 23, 2025

I have experienced consistent game freezes at star light drive in, every time when combat is initiated.It doesn't even have to be a settlement attack, a hostile encounter under the nearby railway bridge triggers it as well. I used to work until a certain point, a save game 20 mins earlier still works. I already went back about 10 hours and the problem reemerged. Tested it with SKK settlement attacks. I did not change anything in the cell between. I tried to disable all mod plugins and still the game freezes. My assumption is, there is a navmesh problem (something stored in the save), at least thats the one crash log I caught would suggest (CombatNavmeshSearchT<CombatPathingGoalPolicyFindAttackLocation,CombatPathingSearchPolicyStandard>*). Did spring cleaning cause this? There is hardly anything to scrap there, but who knows. I compared it to other settlements, initiated attacks via SKK and no issues there.

Suggestions please? 😭

Crash log

https://pastebin.com/r01mx5n0

Classic Analysis:

Spoiler

crash-2025-08-23-09-43-34.log -> AUTOSCAN REPORT GENERATED BY CLASSIC v7.30.3
# FOR BEST VIEWING EXPERIENCE OPEN THIS FILE IN NOTEPAD++ OR SIMILAR #
# PLEASE READ EVERYTHING CAREFULLY AND BEWARE OF FALSE POSITIVES #
====================================================

Main Error: Unhandled exception "EXCEPTION_ACCESS_VIOLATION" at 0x7FF65DF7ED7A Fallout4.exe+24AED7A

Detected Buffout 4 Version: Buffout 4 v1.28.6
* You have the latest version of Buffout 4! *

====================================================
CHECKING IF LOG MATCHES ANY KNOWN CRASH SUSPECTS...
====================================================
# Checking for NPC Pathing Crash (S)......... SUSPECT FOUND! > Severity : 3 #
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# Checking for NPC Pathing Crash (D)......... SUSPECT FOUND! > Severity : 3 #
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# Checking for Corrupted Audio Crash......... SUSPECT FOUND! > Severity : 4 #
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# Checking for Player Character Crash........ SUSPECT FOUND! > Severity : 3 #
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* FOR DETAILED DESCRIPTIONS AND POSSIBLE SOLUTIONS TO ANY ABOVE DETECTED CRASH SUSPECTS *
* SEE: https://docs.google.com/document/d/17FzeIMJ256xE85XdjoPvv_Zi3C5uHeSTQh6wOZugs4c *

====================================================
CHECKING IF NECESSARY FILES/SETTINGS ARE CORRECT...
====================================================
* NOTICE: FCX MODE IS ENABLED. CLASSIC MUST BE RUN BY THE ORIGINAL USER FOR CORRECT DETECTION *
[ To disable mod & game files detection, disable FCX Mode in the exe or CLASSIC Settings.yaml ]

✔️ You have the latest version of Fallout 4!
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✔️ Your Fallout 4 game files are installed outside of the Program Files folder!
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✔️ REQUIRED: *Address Library* for Script Extender is installed!
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✔️ REQUIRED: *Fallout 4 Script Extender (F4SE)* is installed!
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✔️ You have the latest version of *Fallout 4 Script Extender (F4SE)*!
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#❌ CAUTION : F4SE.log REPORTS THE FOLLOWING ERRORS #
ERROR > BOM Error, file must be encoded in UCS-2 LE.
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✔️ All Script Extender files have been found and accounted for!
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[!] ERROR : Your Fallout4.ini file has duplicate options!
While reading from WindowsPath('C:/Users/conta/Documents/My Games/Fallout4/Fallout4.ini') [line 59]: option 'fSunUpdateThreshold' in section 'Display' already exists
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✔️ No obvious corruption detected in Fallout4Custom.ini, file seems OK!
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✔️ No obvious corruption detected in Fallout4Prefs.ini, file seems OK!
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✔️ You have the latest version of the Address Library file!
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✔️ Achievements parameter is correctly configured in your Buffout 4 settings!
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✔️ Memory Manager parameter is correctly configured in your Buffout 4 settings!
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✔️ HavokMemorySystem parameter is correctly configured in your Buffout 4 settings!
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✔️ BSTextureStreamerLocalHeap parameter is correctly configured in your Buffout 4 settings!
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✔️ ScaleformAllocator parameter is correctly configured in your Buffout 4 settings!
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✔️ SmallBlockAllocator parameter is correctly configured in your Buffout 4 settings!
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✔️ F4EE (Looks Menu) parameter is correctly configured in your Buffout 4 settings!
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[!] CAUTION : THE FOLLOWING LOG FILE REPORTS ONE OR MORE ERRORS!
[ Errors do not necessarily mean that the mod is not working. ]

LOG PATH > F:\SteamLibrary\steamapps\common\Fallout 4\ckpe.log
ERROR > MASTERFILE: Combined Ref Key errors found for cells. Check EditorWarnings.txt for more information.

* TOTAL NUMBER OF DETECTED LOG ERRORS * : 1
[!] CAUTION : THE FOLLOWING LOG FILE REPORTS ONE OR MORE ERRORS!
[ Errors do not necessarily mean that the mod is not working. ]

LOG PATH > F:\SteamLibrary\steamapps\common\Fallout 4\WeaponDebrisCrashFix.log
ERROR > MASTERFILE: Combined Ref Key errors found for cells. Check EditorWarnings.txt for more information.

* TOTAL NUMBER OF DETECTED LOG ERRORS * : 1

✔️ WRYE BASH PLUGIN CHECKER REPORT WAS FOUND! ANALYZING CONTENTS...
[This report is located in your Documents/My Games/Fallout4 folder.]
[To hide this report, remove *ModChecker.html* from the same folder.]
MergeabilityCheck.ESL_CHECK-fähig > AA HotC - Standalone - SE - AE Patch.esp
> BalconySupports.esp
> BB_BuildingBridges.esp
> Better Landscape Grass.esp
> Better LOD.esp
> BetterJunkFences.esp
> BetterSettlersCCAPack2.0.esp
> BetterShackBridges.esp
> Business Settlements.esp
> CF_AtomicWarlordNoMod.esp
> CROSS_GoreCrits_FarHarborPatch.esp
> dD-Enhanced Blood Basic.esp
> DDP_Interior_doorway1.esp
> detailedferalghouls2K.esp
> Devious Devices Addon - High Heels Sound.esp
> DX Commonwealth Shorts.esp
> EC278-More_AI!!! - 128x8.esp
> ErectionFix_SilverPerv.esp
> ExpandedSettlementBuildings.esp
> Friffy_Piper Outfit_Standalone.esp
> Hot and Horny Wastelands Posters.esp
> IcebreakerCDO-Settlements.esp
> KziitdAnimationPoses.esp
> LewdMarks.esp
> LooksMenu.esp
> Natural2KFaceTexturesAllInOne.esp
> OWR_CraftableDecor.esp
> OWR_CraftableDecor_CW.esp
> SC_ExpandedScrapList.esp
> ScrappySigns.esp
> SettleObjExpandPack-AllLightShadowEnabler.esp
> SettleObjExpandPack-AutoDoorsPatch.esp
> SlaveTattoos.esp
> TinaDeLucaSettlerAIVoiced.2A82A.2A82A.esp
> Toxic Raider Armour.esp
> UFOCrashSite.esp
> ValdacilsItemSorting-00-ValsPicks-DLCNextGen-VanillaWeight.esp
> ValdacilsItemSorting-Junk+DEF_INV.esp
> WallTurretStand_eng.esp
> WoodenPrefabsExtended.esp
> XDI.esm

== Cleaning With FO4Edit Needed ==

❓ These plugins contain ITMs and/or UDRs which should be cleaned manually with
Quick Auto Clean (QAC) or automatically with Plugin Auto Cleaning Tool (PACT).
-----
> --abernathy--.esp: 1 deleted reference
> ArmorKeywords.esm: Contains dirty edits, needs cleaning.
> Children of Ug Qualtoth.esp: 13 deleted references
> CRP Radio Towers 2.5.esp: 24 deleted references
> EvilViking13_PatchworkSanctuaryBridge.esp: 1 deleted reference
> Fallout 4 AI Overhaul.esp: Contains dirty edits, needs cleaning.
> Mechanist Lair Overhaul.esp: Contains dirty edits, needs cleaning.
> NightstrikerCreatureMod.esp: 1 deleted reference
> NukaWorldPlus.esp: 1 deleted reference
> ppf.esm: Contains dirty edits, needs cleaning.
> rxl_bp70_animations.esp: 1 deleted reference
> SpringCleaning.esm: 1 deleted reference

======= Deleted Navmeshes ========

❓ These plugins have deleted navmeshes. These can often cause a crash
in specific areas. Try to find a patch that fixes their navmeshes
or disable these plugins first if you ever get a navmesh crash.
-----
> OpenOberlandBridge.esp: 1 deleted navmesh
> The House.esp: 1 deleted navmesh

====== Deleted Base Records ======

❓ These plugins have deleted base records. These might cause a crash
and deleted records can only be manually restored with xEdit.
-----
> CombatZoneRestored.esp: 5 deleted base records
> HumanResources.esp: 1 deleted base record
> Interview.esp: 2 deleted base records

== Unnecessary Deleted Records ===
> MedfordMemorialHelipad.esp
> VotWMaster.esm

========== NULL FormIDs ==========
> DD_1x1_Foundation_Blocks.esp
> Homemaker.esm
> Kraggles - Structures.esp
> MorePrefabs.esl
> Towel_Beds.esp
> WoodenPrefabsExtended.esp

============= HITMEs =============

❓ These plugins contain Higher Index Than Master-list Entries, which are mainly
caused by improper xEdit or CK edits. Resave these plugins with Creation Kit.
If HITMEs persist, such plugins may not work correctly and can crash the game.
-----
> WallTurretStand_eng.esp: 6 HITMEs

======= Duplicate FormIDs ========

❓ These Form IDs occur at least twice in the listed plugins. This is undefined behavior
that may result in crashes or unpredictable issues and this can only be fixed with xEdit.
Contact the mod authors and consider uninstalling these plugins if you encounter problems.
-----
> FE05DFF1 in Treehouses.esp: occurs 7 times

❔ For more info about the above detected problems, see the WB Advanced Readme
For more details about solutions, read the Advanced Troubleshooting Article
Advanced Troubleshooting: https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/articles/4141
Wrye Bash Advanced Readme Documentation: https://wrye-bash.github.io/docs/
[ After resolving any problems, run Plugin Checker in Wrye Bash again! ]

* NOTICE : VSYNC IS CURRENTLY ENABLED IN THE FOLLOWING FILES *
F:\SteamLibrary\steamapps\common\Fallout 4\data\F4SE\Plugins\HighFPSPhysicsFix.ini | SETTING: EnableVSync
====================================================
CHECKING FOR MODS THAT CAN CAUSE FREQUENT CRASHES...
====================================================
[!] FOUND : [11] Spring Cleaning
- Abandoned and severely outdated mod that breaks precombines and could potentially even break your save file.
-----
[!] FOUND : [FE147] War Of The Commonwealth
- Seems responsible for consistent crashes with specific spawn points or random ones during settlement attacks.
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# [!] CAUTION : ANY ABOVE DETECTED MODS HAVE A MUCH HIGHER CHANCE TO CRASH YOUR GAME! #
* YOU CAN DISABLE ANY / ALL OF THEM TEMPORARILY TO CONFIRM THEY CAUSED THIS CRASH. *

====================================================
CHECKING FOR MODS THAT CONFLICT WITH OTHER MODS...
====================================================
[!] CAUTION : CBP Physics ❌ CONFLICTS WITH : Classic Holstered Weapons
Classic Holstered Weapons will not work correctly with mods that modify the player skeleton or add new skeleton paths.
If you encounter problems or crashes, see here how to add additional skeletons: https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/articles/2496
-----
# [!] CAUTION : FOUND MODS THAT ARE INCOMPATIBLE OR CONFLICT WITH YOUR OTHER MODS #
* YOU SHOULD CHOOSE WHICH MOD TO KEEP AND DISABLE OR COMPLETELY REMOVE THE OTHER MOD *

====================================================
CHECKING FOR MODS WITH SOLUTIONS & COMMUNITY PATCHES
====================================================
[!] FOUND : [0A] Advanced Animation Framework
- Latest AAF version only available on Moddingham | AAF Tech Support: https://discord.gg/gWZuhMC
Latest AAF Link (register / login to download): https://www.moddingham.com/viewtopic.php?t=2
-----
- Looks Menu versions 1.6.20 & 1.6.19 can frequently break adult mod related (erection) morphs.
If you notice AAF related problems, remove latest version of Looks Menu and switch to 1.6.18.
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[!] FOUND : [80] Armor And Weapons Keywords
- If you don't rely on AWKCR, consider switching to Equipment and Crafting Overhaul
Better Alternative: https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/67679?tab=files
Patches to remove AWKCR: https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/40752?tab=files
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[!] FOUND : [CA] Combat Zone Restored
- Contains few small issues and NPCs usually have trouble navigating the interior space.
Patch Link: https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/59329?tab=files
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[!] FOUND : [19] Homemaker
- Causes a crash while scrolling over Military / BoS fences in the Settlement Menu.
Advised Fix: Make sure you are using at least version 1.73 of this mod.
Alternate Fix: https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/41434?tab=files
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[!] FOUND : [23] Looks Menu Customization Compendium
- If you are getting broken hair colors, install this mod and make sure it loads after LMCC.
Mod Link: https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/18287?tab=files
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[!] FOUND : [FE09F] South Of The Sea
- Very unstable mod that consistently and frequently causes strange problems and crashes.
Updated Version: https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/63152?tab=files
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# [!] CAUTION : FOUND PROBLEMATIC MODS WITH SOLUTIONS AND COMMUNITY PATCHES #
[Due to limitations, CLASSIC will show warnings for some mods even if fixes or patches are already installed.]
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====================================================
CHECKING FOR MODS PATCHED THROUGH OPC INSTALLER...
====================================================
[!] FOUND : [3A] Immersive Beantown
[!] FOUND : [38] Immersive & Extended Lexington
[!] FOUND : [34] More Xplore
[!] FOUND : [4F] Vault 1080 (Vault 80)

* FOR PATCH REPOSITORY THAT PREVENTS CRASHES AND FIXES PROBLEMS IN THESE AND OTHER MODS,*
* VISIT OPTIMIZATION PATCHES COLLECTION: https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/54872 *

====================================================
CHECKING IF IMPORTANT PATCHES & FIXES ARE INSTALLED
====================================================
✔️ Canary Save File Monitor is installed!

✔️ High FPS Physics Fix is installed!

✔️ Previs Repair Pack (PRP) is installed!

✔️ Unofficial Fallout 4 Patch is installed!

✔️ Nvidia Weapon Debris Fix is installed!

✔️ Nvidia Reflex Support is installed!

====================================================
SCANNING THE LOG FOR SPECIFIC (POSSIBLE) SUSPECTS...
====================================================
# LIST OF (POSSIBLE) PLUGIN SUSPECTS #
- x-cell-og.dll | 3

[Last number counts how many times each Plugin Suspect shows up in the crash log.]
These Plugins were caught by Buffout 4 and some of them might be responsible for this crash.
You can try disabling these plugins and check if the game still crashes, though this method can be unreliable.

# LIST OF (POSSIBLE) FORM ID SUSPECTS #
- Form ID: 00189521 | [Fallout4.esm] | 7

[Last number counts how many times each Form ID shows up in the crash log.]
These Form IDs were caught by Buffout 4 and some of them might be related to this crash.
You can try searching any listed Form IDs in xEdit and see if they lead to relevant records.

# LIST OF DETECTED (NAMED) RECORDS #
- void* -> x-cell-og.dll+000BD1D) | 1
- void* -> x-cell-og.dll+0061068) | 1
- void* -> x-cell-og.dll+006CE38) | 1

[Last number counts how many times each Named Record shows up in the crash log.]
These records were caught by Buffout 4 and some of them might be related to this crash.
Named records should give extra info on involved game objects, record types or mod files.

FOR FULL LIST OF MODS THAT CAUSE PROBLEMS, THEIR ALTERNATIVES AND DETAILED SOLUTIONS
VISIT THE BUFFOUT 4 CRASH ARTICLE: https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/articles/3115
===============================================================================
Author/Made By: Poet (guidance.of.grace) | https://discord.gg/DfFYJtt8p4
CONTRIBUTORS | evildarkarchon | kittivelae | AtomicFallout757
FO4 CLASSIC | https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/56255
CLASSIC v7.30.3 | 24.10.11 | END OF AUTOSCAN

subaverage · August 23, 2025

You have a long modlist. So it will be hard to determine whether a mod is the reason and which one. Looking at the modpage of Spring Cleaning shows a long bug section. As this mod deals with settlements it might be the reason. I see that you are on an Nvidia card. Short time ago I updated to the latest drivers and suddenly my game froze in repeatably in the same sections and even crashed way more often than before. Reverting to driver version 566.14 resolved this. This might not have anything to do with your problems, but perhaps it's worth a try. In any case you could turn off Weapon Debris. I've seen that you have the fix, so I assume that it's turned on.

plutocene · August 23, 2025

Thanks, yes and thats already a shortened modlist. I have been debugging various bugs for months. I'll try downgrading the Nvidia driver. I do not use weapon debris actually, since Classic insisted, I keep the fix active.

48 minutes ago, subaverage said:

You have a long modlist. So it will be hard to determine whether a mod is the reason and which one. Looking at the modpage of Spring Cleaning shows a long bug section. As this mod deals with settlements it might be the reason. I see that you are on an Nvidia card. Short time ago I updated to the latest

drivers and suddenly my game froze in repeatably in the same sections and even crashed way more often than before. Reverting to driver version 566.14 resolved this. This might not have anything to do with your problems, but perhaps it's worth a try. In any case you could turn off Weapon Debris. I've seen that you have the fix, so I assume that it's turned on

Edit: Reverted Nvidia driver to 566.14, same result, weapon debris is also definitely disabled, disabled the crash fix non the less too.

Edited August 23, 2025 by plutocene

deathmorph · August 24, 2025

On 8/23/2025 at 5:19 PM, plutocene said:

Suggestions please?

ChatGPT says

Spoiler

Crash Analysis – Starlight Drive-In Freezes

Your crash log points to combat pathfinding (CombatNavmeshSearchT...FindAttackLocation) as the cause.
The issue is a corrupted or inconsistent navmesh reference in the Starlight Drive-In cell (FormID 0x00189521, from Fallout4.esm).
This corruption is now baked into your save, which is why disabling plugins didn’t fix it.
Likely triggers include:
- Spring Cleaning or other scrap/build mods removing NavCut objects
- VotW Starlight Drive-In + Reaper patch
- PRP/Previs patches modifying that cell
The crash happens whenever AI tries to calculate a combat path in that cell — during settlement attacks or any hostile encounter nearby.

Recommended steps (safe for your save):

Reset the cell – leave Starlight, wait at least 10–15 in-game days elsewhere, then return.
Avoid combat in that area until you confirm stability.
Test in a duplicate save by temporarily disabling Starlight-related plugins (VoTW Starlight, Reaper patch, PRP cell patches) to check if the behavior changes.
Review scrap changes – if you scrapped heavily in Starlight, that likely triggered the navmesh corruption.
If nothing helps, use xEdit to compare the Starlight cell records and build a small patch to restore the missing or broken NavCut references.

Summary:
This is not a random engine bug — it’s a navmesh corruption in your save tied to the Starlight cell. Resetting the cell or applying a targeted patch is the only way to prevent future freezes.

without guarantee

plutocene · August 25, 2025

12 hours ago, deathmorph said:

ChatGPT says

[...]

without guarantee

Thanks for trying to help. ChatGPT is hit and miss, I have been using it for a long time professionally as well to try debugging logs for Fallout 4 i. e.

In this instance, depending on what info you provided it, it basically repeats my suspicions towards a corrupted navmesh, which is baked into the save. It however does not explain why the game only crashed once and otherwise freezes.

The funny thing is, I looked up this Reaper patch, which is a whole array of dozens of VIS-G item sorting patches made by Reaper I had installed, while I am using VIS item sorting 🤦‍♂️ Totally not confusing, but my fault, I got them mixed up. I doubt that would be the cause but not good either, the load order is now 60 plugins shorter lol.

It does provide two or three avenues I could explore though: 1. Attempt to reset the cell by waiting. 2. Disable suspects, and attempt to reset the cell by waiting. 3. Disable potential culprits prior to the "corruption" and see, if the issue appears or not for each instance.

deathmorph · August 25, 2025

1 hour ago, plutocene said:

Thanks for ... each instance.

I also use the AI for all my FO4 problems. With about 700 mods, it's almost impossible to find such errors manually. However, only thinking mode is usable, since even version 5 still tends to ghost and throw out all sorts of crap in normal mode.

I'll keep my fingers crossed for you as you find the bug.

subaverage · August 25, 2025

Do you have settlers in Starlight? If not, you could make a save, call some and see what happens. If the navmesh is damaged they should behave odd or lead to freezes, too. Maybe this mod could be helpful: https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/70086. I would believe to be placed below any scrapping/ cleaning mod.

I don't know whether the railway bridge is even in the same cell like Starlight Drive-In. So perhaps the reason is not a navmesh error, but something in the attack system. I see that you have mods that interfere with it and a mod that moves the settlement attack markers.

If nothing helps you take into consideration to make a copy of your Fallout 4 game folder and verify game file integrity afterwards. In case of Steam that would mean your game would be updated and you would have to go through the downgrade process. If things go worse you can play your backup back and Steam will from now on believe your game is updated.

Edited August 25, 2025 by subaverage

plutocene · August 25, 2025

3 hours ago, subaverage said:

Do you have settlers in Starlight? If not, you could make a save, call some and see what happens. If the navmesh is damaged they should behave odd or lead to freezes, too. Maybe this mod could be helpful: https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/70086. I would believe to be placed below any scrapping/ cleaning mod.

I don't know whether the railway bridge is even in the same cell like Starlight Drive-In. So perhaps the reason is not a navmesh error, but something in the attack system. I see that you have mods that interfere with it and a mod that moves the settlement attack markers.

If nothing helps you take into consideration to make a copy of your Fallout 4 game folder and verify game file integrity afterwards. In case of Steam that would mean your game would be updated and you would have to go through the downgrade process. If things go worse you can play your backup back and Steam will from now on believe your game is updated.

Yes, I have 7 settlers in Starlight, they behave normal, vanilla stupidity but no crashes or freezes. I installed the navmesh overhaul thx, can't hurt, as even unmodified cells have issues. The railway bridge certainly is not even close to Starlight, so that one is pretty much excluded. If Graygarden would crash, then yes.

The spawns outside settlement is basically a standard mod, no issues reported in regards to crashes or freezes, while this may of course play a role, assuming the navmesh is even the issue, as Npcs have to cover more ground. I combine it with SKKs settlement attacks, which is also widely used. On top of that, combat AI, which is less widely used and at least one other user reported similar issues, which points to a navmesh issue as the cause (npc pathing crash). I did use PANPC on top of that, which was highly unstable, causing crashes in settlement attacks and elsewhere. And yes, they should work in unison, assuming you have a stable set up. Problem is, everyone claims their mod is stable

It could indeed be related to combat AI. Ripping out PANPC could have left some stuff in the save, it doesn't explain though why it would cause a localized and not a random issue that suddenly manifests 100 percent of the time. Verifying game files and downgrading the game is like a 2 min process, I guess it can't hurt, no need to backup anything but unlikely an issue.

I continued, ripped out all PRP previsbine stuff, and installed the navmesh fix for Starlight. Loaded a save before the issue, verified by spawning an attack on Starlight. Went to 81 to do the molerat quest. Once that was done, straight back to Starlight and the issue started again, this time the freeze was more a slideshow in 3 Fps, but thats probably just variance.

I dont see how Curie or the related quest could cause this, I'll try doing different quests and then check if it breaks again. Really, really strange overall.

izzyknows · August 25, 2025

3 hours ago, plutocene said:

Once that was done, straight back to Starlight and the issue started again

Here's the thing about navmesh issues. Once you visit a cell for the first time, you're done. The only way you're going to fix it is start a new run. Or install a mod that completely reworks that cells navmesh. But that's a "might" work proposition, and usually results in really weird and broken pathing.

Waiting will do nothing to the navmesh. All waiting does is reset the containers/loot, bad guys etc. There's a console command to force reset a cell.

But, I can pretty much bet your current save is screwed anyway as you've been removing mods, which is a major no no.

Never remove mods, especially scripted ones, on a current save.

If you want to debug some thing, do the 50/50 method on a new run.

But always remember, NEVER get attached to a run, this is a Bugthesda game and it will fork up.

Forgot to mention, settlement cells are flagged to never reset, because IF they did, anything you changed would be undone. aka you'd have a mess. LOL

Edited August 25, 2025 by izzyknows

plutocene · August 25, 2025

1 hour ago, izzyknows said:

Here's the thing about navmesh issues. Once you visit a cell for the first time, you're done. The only way you're going to fix it is start a new run. Or install a mod that completely reworks that cells navmesh. But that's a "might" work proposition, and usually results in really weird and broken pathing.

Waiting will do nothing to the navmesh. All waiting does is reset the containers/loot, bad guys etc. There's a console command to force reset a cell.

But, I can pretty much bet your current save is screwed anyway as you've been removing mods, which is a major no no.

Never remove mods, especially scripted ones, on a current save.

If you want to debug some thing, do the 50/50 method on a new run.

But always remember, NEVER get attached to a run, this is a Bugthesda game and it will fork up.

I would have assumed that the navmesh gets regenerated in settlement cells after X amount of time to incorporate the changes or not?

Normally, I would totally agree with you, but how do you test something that appears 30 hours into a play through and the cause is unknown?

I do not try to save this run, I try to figure out what the heck is breaking and so I can remove it. Like I said, this is nothing like I have ever experienced and I have seen some weird shit happening. The navmesh is just a theory, because I sometimes crash with navmesh issues, its unclear if thats the same cause as the sudden freeze/lag during combat at Starlight cell, after point X.

Since the navmesh crash involved Windows MSVCR110.dll I got suspicious ran system diagnostics and it fixed something, sadly as you know, it doesn't say what. I assume that .dll might have been corrupted or a recent MS update fucked it. I just ran 8 Settlements attacks on Starlight from the save before the lag issue, no more crashes. Either I'm extremely lucky or that fixed the combat pathing crash. Technically, I would blame that on Bugthesda too, since they are part of MS these days

The Freeze/permanent lag during combat at Starlight, after point X remains. The game does recover once all hostiles are eliminated. So its not a full crash, but something is causing extreme lag. So whatever I did, had at least some effect.

Edited August 25, 2025 by plutocene

izzyknows · August 26, 2025

1 hour ago, plutocene said:

I would have assumed that the navmesh gets regenerated in settlement cells after X amount of time to incorporate the changes or not?

No, scrappable items are linked to the navmesh and when that item is scrapped the triangles it was linked to is basically replaced with valid navmesh.

Floors and stairs that you build have their own built in navmesh... obviously. LOL

1 hour ago, plutocene said:

Normally, I would totally agree with you, but how do you test something that appears 30 hours into a play through and the cause is unknown?

It's not easy.. generally. And sometimes it can be a one off glitch or even a corrupt file. I've had a boot nif cause CTD every time the NPC wearing them tried to spawn. But the NPC was never in the same place twice, and I'd been running the mod for years.

Even had one of the vanilla LOD files become corrupted and ended up having to delete all the vanilla ba2 files (Steam couldn't fine it as the size never changed) and let Steam re-download them.

Disabling mods mid run trying to find the offender most often leads to chasing your tail as it causes even more glitches and unexpected issues. But personally, as a last ditch effort I'd disable any mod that effects the problem cell/area. Even if it just adds a stimpak.

But since it was a pathing issue... I'd just start a new run without the mods I "think" could be the problem child.

One thing for sure, PRP is stupid as hell. It's kool on paper, but sucks mutant ass in practice. It's the poster child for "just because you can, doesn't mean you should." LOL

subaverage · August 26, 2025

Such massive stutters normaly mean that the engine is overloaded which can have a lot of reasons. Perhaps you damaged precombines in this area and only for this the engine has very much to do with rendering a lot of single objects instead of a few. When it then comes to attacks the payload gets higher and higher. Perhaps you also have high-res clothing mods/ replacers, high-res body and face skins that affect npcs, too. Landscape texture mods, enb/ reshade so that in the sum of many factors the game is simply on the edge.

plutocene · August 26, 2025

14 hours ago, izzyknows said:

No, scrappable items are linked to the navmesh and when that item is scrapped the triangles it was linked to is basically replaced with valid navmesh.

Floors and stairs that you build have their own built in navmesh... obviously. LOL

Okay. Keep in mind though there is little to scrap at Starlight, I removed the skeletons, and the bar, thats it. Funny thing you said that objects have built in navmeshes, some vanilla meshes are missing those and some are broken. I. e., the vanilla junk fence door with the barbed wire on top. The door navmesh exceeds 45 degree angle, making it unusable. I had dozens of super mutants standing in front of a walled in Abernathy farm unable to get in, while the settlers couldn't get out. I fixed it by lowering the angle, made some funny screenshots of the before and after but was dissuaded from publishing it, as it would break peoples games, I was told.

However, I don't think the freeze is a navmesh issue. While the crash log clearly points toward a pathing issue, I do not think this to be related with the lag/freeze issue, in particular since I have had pathing crashes elsewhere too (might be fixed with the Windows .dll, which is involved in C# code interpretation??), while this freeze is entirely located in Semour Skinners kitchen after he turned on the "oven" so to speak and the symptoms don't match.

14 hours ago, izzyknows said:

It's not easy.. generally. And sometimes it can be a one off glitch or even a corrupt file. I've had a boot nif cause CTD every time the NPC wearing them tried to spawn. But the NPC was never in the same place twice, and I'd been running the mod for years.

Yes, had a few of those too. I.e., a npc's body was invisible, I killed him for science and he was wearing a vanilla Nuka world dress. Long story short, it turned out that Luxors texture replacer nukaworld.ba2 was somehow corrupted, after deactivating the modded .ba2, it was rendered correctly, re downloaded the mod file and voila, worked too. Or I had the super smart idea to pack the blood retexture mod into a .ba2 file, for performance? Turned out that broke the shader, resulting in square blood textures and CTD when trying to save in a cell with bloody bodies 🤣 So, it could be a fluke error a corrupted file, or I did something like unpacking a .ba2 or deactivating pacnpc, which in the end resulted in this issue hours later.

As for disabling mods in a play through that do anything else than replacing meshes and textures is playing Russian roulette, no arguments there.

In regards to PRP, yes it is problematic at best. Precombines or mesh groups as I know them from Unity game developing attempts, are a common trick to reduce draw calls and shadowcasters. Bethesda however really dropped the ball on its implementation by breaking them themselves in some instances and including settlement areas, not foreseeing people will want to clean shit, seriously. While the scrap mods on the other hand may break way more than just the precombines in the settlements. I have spent about 2 weeks trying to make PRP patches for the entire load order, but failed. Read up everything, asked questions, couldn't even patch a single cell successfully. There's a bad mesh, go find it. Okay, how... And of course many mods break precombines and the various patches available may conflict with each other when they patch the same cell. So my solution is, let any mod that breaks PRP like Lexington extended load after PRP and be very selective which patch might be beneficial or let the engine tank it.

Anyways thanks for the suggestions, I'll think it over, but as far as I can tell, restarting fresh is the only course forward regardless.

6 hours ago, subaverage said:

Such massive stutters normaly mean that the engine is overloaded which can have a lot of reasons. Perhaps you damaged precombines in this area and only for this the engine has very much to do with rendering a lot of single objects instead of a few. When it then comes to attacks the payload gets higher and higher. Perhaps you also have high-res clothing mods/ replacers, high-res body and face skins that affect npcs, too. Landscape texture mods, enb/ reshade so that in the sum of many factors the game is simply on the edge.

Yes, the engine appears to be overloaded, but is it draw calls or script related? I think its the latter. A single hostile actor added to the scene and bam. Lag/freeze. Actor dead, and all good. While I do not have measurements, Starlight isn't looking particularly demanding visually, so even without precombines, I do not see a draw call issue in that cell, but thats just my assumption, based on experience, which I have quite a bit of. Based on this observations, I think its script related, the combat AI is going bonkers so to speak, it would be interesting to analyze the script load, but I don't know how to do that. Might look it up. Thanks for the suggestions.

EDIT: I think I have found the smoking gun, as described by SKKMods (https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/35853?tab=description)

I was looking up methods to measure script load and found his mod.

In regards to script load:... "The recent promotion of Sim Settlements and Pack Attack NPC as best ever Fallout 4 mods ever in the history of everness has generated a spike in combined installs. Those users of my real time combat mods like Combat Stalkers and/or Settlement Attack System observe extreme actor behaviour lag (responsing to events) and Script Lag Detector reports a significant back-log, especially around workshop combat." - SKKMods -

Since I was using SKKs' Settlement Attacks in combination with an AI mod and Pack Attack on top, I suspect something went astray script wise, resulting in this odd behaviour, run away script/script spam, which essentially blocks the pipeline, causing the massive lag. I will run some tests, but I think this is it.

Edit 2: Ran SKK's Scriptlag test, Baseline for "unbroken" save in Starlight, tool reports no script lag. Triggered settlement attack, tool reports no script lag. Loaded a known broken save, triggered attack, reported script lag 257/52 FPS. I'm not entirely sure how to properly interpret that exactly, but basically it says, a lot of script lag and FPS impact of 52. Tldr, script lag is the cause, not draw calls. Culprit: Potentially broken script/save/orphaned script from Pack Attack NPC running amok.

Edited August 26, 2025 by plutocene

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