slay the spire Slay the Spire - Echidna

[Atmey]

13 hours ago, D4ndrone said:

There is one of your rare cards that add poison to you when you play hand cards. This thing kills the player quicker than monsters. You should make it give you the card that retain poison in another card, or the milk card. otherwise it's useless in early stage of the game.

 

 

Slippery Oil, it's a tool for draw, have to balance it somehow, there are some cards that help reduce poison and a relic too, also Regen supposed to help as well. I think adding a free Antidote would make it too OP, Starter Pack supposed to help as well. Might add another simple common card to help with self poison, I guess.

 

EDIT: And done, added a new card that would hopefully help with decreasing self damage from poison.

 

EDIT2: how does this attachment work? seems broken in post, but works when clicked

 

 

 

Edited November 12, 2024 by Atmey

[D4ndrone]

I see your card, i'll try.

[juzjoss]

First and foremost, I have enjoyed Slay the Spire for many years. Replayability is top tier. But as an enjoyer of mods and adult genre, you've not only made it more enticing, but the game play you introduced made me think StS could be made even more enjoyable. I've used other character mods, Buxom (too complicated/restricting), Mittens (too broken), The Hermit (very good). Echidna Mod is definitely top in new gameplay mechanics. Even made me want to start to mod if not for not liking java that much.

 

My feedback after playing for weeks. I've reached 5th Ascension so far.

 

Treasure Chest:

• the idea is really good and fun at the start. but the more i used it, the more it felt more punishing than rewarding. at somepoint, the risk of getting bad cards just overwhelms whatever good thing you're supposed to get. if i randomly get it, i mostly use it just for gold/hp now.
  • the transform card in the middle chest is kinda... upsetting? more because i don't know which card changed rather than losing an important card to rng.
  • in Endless, since my goto is +maxhp with regen mechanic, the -maxhp made it more punishing when you're finally not allowed to get +maxhp at the 3rd loop.
  • suggestions:
    • maybe... add bundled effects. and a choice to cancel getting (except for traps i guess)
      • upgrade 2 cards or get a relic, but -maxhp
      • +maxhp, with curse or remove random card/relic
    • and/or make it so that the left approach to opening has no/less permanent effects (damage instead of -maxhp), and that the right can have so (transform, etc)

Starter Pack:

• i don't want to say that this is too op, because it's my favorite card, but maybe it kinda is? or rather, having choices is what makes it so likeable.
• if im in trouble, the defense pack really makes a difference. the masochist makes it easier to get regen. the poison is kinda meh even if im doing a poison build run. safety, for some reason doesn't come out as much (maybe intended).
• suggestions: nothing really. im afraid of it getting nerfed lol, but it stands out very much out of the other rare cards. i had an endless run where i just collected starter packs.

Unconquered:

• i dont know how to use it i guess? even if i got it with 0 cost, i seldom use it. it's so easy to lose 8 plate armor in stronger modes. but the way i understand this, is that it helps create a good starting point for a plated armor build. if you don't play correctly, it's just far too easy to make a mistake with this card. multi-hit enemies just straight trigger conquered. and it sucks when you draw no defense. and once you lose the plated armor, you're still conquerable.
• suggestions:
  • lose the conquerable status after being conquered. 
  • or instead of Almost Conquered, make Conquered trigger only after losing all Plated Armor
  • mix of 3 metallicize + 5 plated armor

Finishing Strike:

• It's only combo seems to be with 0 cards (Shuriken) and Tempting Fate. and even that it's not much. And when the game mechanic restricts the player from playing cards more than X times, it becomes kinda useless. Unlike Experienced Mouth that can accumulate over time, and is not discarded by Bondage effects (early).

Liberating Slash:

• Like Finishing Strike, it's overshadowed by better Uncommon Cards.
  • You have to exhaust cards before you can use it. Rending Kicks can't even be used to safely prepare for this.
  • If I wanted damage, Drain Dry can do more with easier to meet conditions.
  • If i wanted to lower bondage, Break Free can do it freely and even draw a card.
  • Living Restraints can deal/remove more damage/bondage.
  • And it's a hand card so it's also easy to get it discarded/exhausted.

Finishing Kicks

• Feels lacking for a rare card. it deals high damage, but you get bondage and 1 vulnerable. even if for bondage triggers, it only does so once. if you want to get bondage quickly, the Not So Fast relic makes this a bit useless since you get more out of 0/1 cost cards, if comboing with bondage triggers (poison, plated armor).
• At 7 STR, Poison Stabs does 21+3 damage per 1 mana, vs FK with 20 damage per 1 mana.
  • Experienced mouth only needs 3 mouth cards to do the same at 7 STR.

Groin Kick

• at first i thought, for a rare card, not that useful. 3 debuffs that only last a turn. until i fought enemies with artifacts.

Drain Dry:

• A bit lacking if you play endless/ascension. But I guess it the same issue with official cards, like Reaper, Feed, Unload, Judgment.
• Maybe i lack experience using this. the damage falls flat compared to Experienced Mouth. I mean Drain Buff+Taunt can scale this, but by the time i've accumulated enough STR, EM is already quite deadly as well for only 1 cost. EM is the literal drain dry (or suck the dick off that body).

Drain Health:

• i guess same issue with drain dry. doesn't combo with anything else other than +str... and maybe the Necromicon book that makes it trigger twice.

Slime Remains

• having remnants of an ordeal with slimes is an interesting mechanic. but having them permanent in the deck seems kinda illogical lore-wise. how about removing them from the deck after usage. since the concept is "Remains".
• to add to the Slime event, maybe in turn, make slime events occur more when there's more slime remnants?
  • but having only 3 acts might not be enough to warrant this much interaction.
    • only if we could add new slime monsters then this could make it more interesting, but i think it's harder to mod the enemies, if it's even possible.
• with that said, other concepts can be used using the same mechanic.
  • parasites: Parasite as a relic, or as cards that can deal damage to both sides
  • egg laying. using the card adds a sort of spawn card that can use for attacks, or a different effect.
  • slime as block/armor, Tight Enough seems to suggest the possibility of Living Armor.

Masochist Climax

• is this intended? it seems to generate more cards if the character is hit multiple times during its trigger. i also never bother to upgade this. the +hp is not that useful.

Not So Fast Relic

• sometimes you can just get this randomly from some events. getting it early kinda ruins it, but not so much. but when trying to build specifically away from bondage, it kinda sucks when you finally do get it. it's strong though when you do build around bondage. i think a relic shouldn't be too detrimental when doing other builds. maybe it's better as a power card? or something akin to the Helplessly Deadly. an event. oh or a shop-only relic. but the fact that you made it a common relic, i guess it's intended.

Helplessly Deadly

•  very interesting relic that only triggers after a condition is met. there's so much that can be done with this concept. like a character with ever increasing semi-permanent bondage like skyrim's devious devices. the character could get increasing bondage effects (ankle/wrist cuffs, leash, blinders, gag, full arm binders) in the form of relics or curses. and can be removed by the shopkeeper, or damage over time (removing the relic after wear and tear).

Relic Suggestions

• slime inflation relic - slime accumulates in her instead of getting cards, until one or some stays permanently. more slime effects, and slime remains is shuffled into deck (can't be removed).
• Defeat relic. it changes the game mode where the user can no longer be defeated (or maybe after 3 times). if the user hp goes to 0, they instead trigger something like smokebomb. they survive but get nothing. and maybe get some debilitating effects. -str/dex, almost conquered?, echidna-specific curse cards.

 

My apologies for the wall of text. It's because I enjoyed the mod quite very much. Although the card art hooked me in, I stayed for the gameplay.

 

My OP Builds:

• Starter Pack Deck - just build around starter packs. the choice allows for very flexible plays instead of sticking to one style.
  • although choosing masochist trumps all because of the free power card.
• Oral Deck - Taunt+Drain Buff, Antidote, Experienced Mouth
  • add in Slime Explosion/Poison Fog + Drain Poison for quick deck recycling.
  • Death Mark for the overkill. if 300 damage is too low for you, this could push it to 1-2k.

 

 

 

 

Edited November 14, 2024 by juzjoss

[juzjoss]

8 minutes ago, juzjoss said:

only if we could add new slime monsters then this could make it more interesting, but i think it's harder to mod the enemies, if it's even possible.

wait... there are slime monsters... and slime cards...

[Atmey]

11 hours ago, juzjoss said:

Treasure Chest:

• the idea is really good and fun at the start. but the more i used it, the more it felt more punishing than rewarding. at somepoint, the risk of getting bad cards just overwhelms whatever good thing you're supposed to get. if i randomly get it, i mostly use it just for gold/hp now.
  • the transform card in the middle chest is kinda... upsetting? more because i don't know which card changed rather than losing an important card to rng.
  • in Endless, since my goto is +maxhp with regen mechanic, the -maxhp made it more punishing when you're finally not allowed to get +maxhp at the 3rd loop.
  • suggestions:
    • maybe... add bundled effects. and a choice to cancel getting (except for traps i guess)
      • upgrade 2 cards or get a relic, but -maxhp
      • +maxhp, with curse or remove random card/relic
    • and/or make it so that the left approach to opening has no/less permanent effects (damage instead of -maxhp), and that the right can have so (transform, etc)

 

Yeah, it was kinda hard to do, it was somewhat proof of concept. I'll see if I can make it clearer, or with better consequences.

 

11 hours ago, juzjoss said:

Starter Pack:

• i don't want to say that this is too op, because it's my favorite card, but maybe it kinda is? or rather, having choices is what makes it so likeable.
• if im in trouble, the defense pack really makes a difference. the masochist makes it easier to get regen. the poison is kinda meh even if im doing a poison build run. safety, for some reason doesn't come out as much (maybe intended).
• suggestions: nothing really. im afraid of it getting nerfed lol, but it stands out very much out of the other rare cards. i had an endless run where i just collected starter packs.

 

There is a bit of mechanics of the choices that appear, like you won't get AoE pack if there is a single enemy. I'm glad you found it fun

11 hours ago, juzjoss said:

Unconquered:

 

Yeah, it still feels lacking, but I liked the idea, it is supposed to be a trap card, like feeling over confident and all only to lose it all.

11 hours ago, juzjoss said:

Finishing Strike:

 

I think I buffed it in the latest update, but I think it's still pretty decent for a 0 cost attack.

 

Nothing compares to experienced mouth, that is one card hard to balance without ruining the fun factor.

 

11 hours ago, juzjoss said:

Liberating Slash:

Yeah, I made this before Living Restraints, so it kinda feels weaker and less verstile compared to it, but I liked the idea of exhaust pile count, lets see if I can buff it.

 

11 hours ago, juzjoss said:

Finishing Kicks

Just filling up the kicks qouta, similar to the "wrath" stance of the watcher.

 

11 hours ago, juzjoss said:

Groin Kick

It shines when it's upgraded, all debuffs last for 1 more turn.

 

11 hours ago, juzjoss said:

Masochist Climax

• is this intended? it seems to generate more cards if the character is hit multiple times during its trigger. i also never bother to upgade this. the +hp is not that useful.

No, the multi hit bug isn't intended, but it seems kinda funny.

 

11 hours ago, juzjoss said:

Not So Fast Relic

There is a choice that you can skip picking up a relic, but I'll it shop only anyway.

 

Thanks for the feedback, I'll look closely and work on adjustments after releasing the Claire mod

 

The problem with some relics/ideas that I have to make them inter connected, which is hard to do without remaking most cards, or might feel a bit complex, in the claire mod I have added a "corruption" system, lets see how it turns out.

 

What do you think about nerfing experienced mouth? maybe the first instance is effected by STR and the rest are not, would seem more balanced that way.

 

EDIT: Anyone up for beta testing the new mod? still working on some parts, but I think it is playable. PM me here or on discord, how to link to my discord DM?

Edited November 14, 2024 by Atmey

[juzjoss]

7 hours ago, Atmey said:

There is a bit of mechanics of the choices that appear, like you won't get AoE pack if there is a single enemy. I'm glad you found it fun

i see. so it's because i had no bondage yet i guess so safety doesn't come out. this makes it even more useful.

 

7 hours ago, Atmey said:

Yeah, I made this before Living Restraints, so it kinda feels weaker and less verstile compared to it, but I liked the idea of exhaust pile count, lets see if I can buff it.

oh, maybe use up all bondage as damage. since it's meant to liberate one from shackles. but then, being a hand card, it'll be gone soon enough. maybe make it a skill instead. Liberation. After removing oneself from bondage, +temporary str based on bondage. or based off damage the exhaust count? or just removing it as a hand card.

 

7 hours ago, Atmey said:

No, the multi hit bug isn't intended, but it seems kinda funny.

hitting that mutiple waves of ecstasy 😄

 

7 hours ago, Atmey said:

There is a choice that you can skip picking up a relic, but I'll it shop only anyway.

i had one event, i think it was the beggar or something, where you get a relic in exchange for gold or a curse. you just get a relic right away instead of the popup. and you don't know what relic you'll get, unless i missed some hover popups.

 

7 hours ago, Atmey said:

Thanks for the feedback, I'll look closely and work on adjustments after releasing the Claire mod

Looking forward to the new mod!

 

 

7 hours ago, Atmey said:

The problem with some relics/ideas that I have to make them inter connected, which is hard to do without remaking most cards, or might feel a bit complex, in the claire mod I have added a "corruption" system, lets see how it turns out.

yeah. and it seems only to make sense in longer runs. 3 acts might be too short for something complicated interactions.

 

7 hours ago, Atmey said:

What do you think about nerfing experienced mouth? maybe the first instance is effected by STR and the rest are not, would seem more balanced that way.

hmm...

• str on first hit might be good. reflects it being an uncommon card. won't overshadow the rare cards. and still have that multi-hit asmr. rrrrrrrrrr.
• you could cap the hits. i mean, one can only master a skill up to so much.
  • or diminishing returns, but how does one explain that in a card...
• or make it not affected by str, but also becomes true damage (can't be blocked). no phallus can hide from Echidna's mouth.
  • or like Melter, remove all block.
• or make it like Mind Blast/Aggregate.
  • either for every mouth card in the deck
    • or draw/discard (but "experience" is lost)
  • or for every 2-3 uses of mouth cards.
• or nerf drain dry. like retain only half of what's taken (min: 1). but... it doesn't really address the multiplicative effect of str on multi-hit cards.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[juzjoss]

I just remembered that the No Need relic doesn't mention it only removes hand cards.

[D4ndrone]

17 hours ago, Atmey said:

EDIT: Anyone up for beta testing the new mod? still working on some parts, but I think it is playable. PM me here or on discord, how to link to my discord DM?

 

Here i am, roaring like a Ulfric can !

[D4ndrone]

By the way : "Natural resistance" doesn't work for me, it doesn't cure me 3 poison each turn, curing 0.

I'm on last update.

[Atmey]

On 11/15/2024 at 7:55 PM, D4ndrone said:

By the way : "Natural resistance" doesn't work for me, it doesn't cure me 3 poison each turn, curing 0.

I'm on last update.

 

Sorry about that, fixed in latest.

 

Another round of small buffs.

[lord_of_theding]

Great mod! I really like how you implemented the bondage mechanic.

 

But I think Banana Bunch feels more like a curse than a card I would like to play. Yes, it does give a bunch of regeneration, but with 4 Suddenly Banana it has a huge cost. Since the card has energy cost *and* plays itself, you can easily loose a turn. 11 Regen for 6 energy (and a full hand of cards) is way too expensive.

For balancing, maybe reduce the cost of Suddenly Banana to 0. Or turn the whole thing into an actual curse card.

 

Love the treasure chest, but the transform reward being random really sucks. Got it once and it immediately transformed the treasure chest itself

[juzjoss]

4 hours ago, lord_of_theding said:

Love the treasure chest, but the transform reward being random really sucks. Got it once and it immediately transformed the treasure chest itself

 

lol! this hasn't happened to me yet. or i probably didn't know it already happened. i stopped using it when i lost all my key cards that ended my endless run.

 

4 hours ago, lord_of_theding said:

But I think Banana Bunch feels more like a curse than a card I would like to play. Yes, it does give a bunch of regeneration, but with 4 Suddenly Banana it has a huge cost. Since the card has energy cost *and* plays itself, you can easily loose a turn. 11 Regen for 6 energy (and a full hand of cards) is way too expensive.

For balancing, maybe reduce the cost of Suddenly Banana to 0. Or turn the whole thing into an actual curse card.

 

it does kinda help early on when you still have no means of getting regen, especially when using drain energy without antidote. but i do end up ignoring it in late game unless i have extra mana.

 

it might be interesting as a curse card. so basically, the produced card is no longer exhaustible? and instead of 4 cards, just one sudden banana forcing the use of 1 mana for regen. but i think dev was going for, unpeel one, you unpeel them all. 

 

[vvduner]

Love your mod,But [Antidote] This card's ability is so unbalanced, consider removing its [Poisoned Drink] effect or nerfing its value.

[reesewowthree]

Just wanted to chime in and say this was a great mod to play.  Fun mechanics and clearly defined architypes between bondage and poison centric builds.

 

Already dumped a few hours into it and very much enjoyed the time.

[Atmey]

On 11/20/2024 at 1:50 PM, lord_of_theding said:

But I think Banana Bunch feels more like a curse than a card I would like to play. Yes, it does give a bunch of regeneration, but with 4 Suddenly Banana it has a huge cost. Since the card has energy cost *and* plays itself, you can easily loose a turn. 11 Regen for 6 energy (and a full hand of cards) is way too expensive.

For balancing, maybe reduce the cost of Suddenly Banana to 0. Or turn the whole thing into an actual curse card.

 

 

This is post nerf, used to be OP with lower cost and more regen, maybe i'll buff it back up, the regen is still good if you think about it.

On 11/20/2024 at 1:50 PM, lord_of_theding said:

Love the treasure chest, but the transform reward being random really sucks. Got it once and it immediately transformed the treasure chest itself

I think I figured out how to make it "select a card" and not random, let me work on it and see.

 

On 11/21/2024 at 6:54 AM, vvduner said:

Love your mod,But [Antidote] This card's ability is so unbalanced, consider removing its [Poisoned Drink] effect or nerfing its value.

Yeah, it is easy to go full regen with her kit, but without "poison drink" this card is absolutly useless, I want it less punishing if you picked it and wanted to go poison build. Initially the card used to remove all poison, now just a portion. Lets see if I can tweak the numbers a bit.

 

On 11/20/2024 at 6:33 PM, juzjoss said:

it might be interesting as a curse card. so basically, the produced card is no longer exhaustible? and instead of 4 cards, just one sudden banana forcing the use of 1 mana for regen. but i think dev was going for, unpeel one, you unpeel them all. 

 

Was going for "something shoved forcefully and unexpectedly in your mouth", punishment for stealing the monkeys' bananas, like in the official art, but different character.
Found it, inspired by this: https://danbooru.donmai.us/posts/1334354?q=risty_(queen's_blade)+monkey+

Edited November 22, 2024 by Atmey

[juzjoss]

14 hours ago, Atmey said:

Yeah, it is easy to go full regen with her kit, but without "poison drink" this card is absolutly useless, I want it less punishing if you picked it and wanted to go poison build. Initially the card used to remove all poison, now just a portion. Lets see if I can tweak the numbers a bit.

in my style of playing, i see the synergy with Experienced Mouth more op than getting high regen.

but i wouldn't say it's useless if it didn't have poison drink, since you have more sources of poison.

 

i think what makes it op is it's free to play.

adding 1 energy makes it more costly to get the benefits. this kinda nerfs its synergy with EM as well since you have to spend energy now.

forces the player to time it well. it's very costly early game, but late game it's easier to have excess energy.

 

 

 

[oifhs]

Played 2 games with this chara and I actually like it, what I noticed is that "buttocks of steel" and "slap of greed" self dmg scale with strength and that's kinda bad tbh cause it goes from 1 self dmg at 0 strength to 10 self dmg at 9 for example. Was that on purpose or no? (I think all self dmg card scale like this). Anyway I will test more cause I like this new chara

Edited December 10, 2024 by oifhs

[Atmey]

On 12/10/2024 at 9:37 PM, oifhs said:

Played 2 games with this chara and I actually like it, what I noticed is that "buttocks of steel" and "slap of greed" self dmg scale with strength and that's kinda bad tbh cause it goes from 1 self dmg at 0 strength to 10 self dmg at 9 for example. Was that on purpose or no? (I think all self dmg card scale like this). Anyway I will test more cause I like this new chara

 

Yes, I noticed it, but I think it does fit, unlike other cards, these you are technically hitting yourself, so it should benefit from buffs. It is unlikly you will get 9 STR. But if it is too annoying, I might fix it next release.

[oifhs]

19 hours ago, Atmey said:

 

Yes, I noticed it, but I think it does fit, unlike other cards, these you are technically hitting yourself, so it should benefit from buffs. It is unlikly you will get 9 STR. But if it is too annoying, I might fix it next release.

It's fine if it was made to benefit because I found out it triggers masochist so it does make sense. I reached 9 str because I had limit break from clad and bondage build that's why those cards where kinda a draw back, but, they are really good to trigger regen on poison base builds. I will simply chose other cards depending if I want bondage or posion base

[juzjoss]

On 12/13/2024 at 12:48 AM, oifhs said:

It's fine if it was made to benefit because I found out it triggers masochist so it does make sense. I reached 9 str because I had limit break from clad and bondage build that's why those cards where kinda a draw back, but, they are really good to trigger regen on poison base builds. I will simply chose other cards depending if I want bondage or posion base

when i was using Drain Buff + Distract, i wracked up enough strength to kill myself with those cards when not paying attention. got used to my high regen/high max hp runs. 🤣

[juzjoss]

Experienced Mouth doesn't seem to register as hit. Used on byrd, and no matter what the amount of hit is, not even itself count to the 3 hits to ground it. I followed it with 2 poison strikes.

 

Yeah no. Jumped the gun. It was because 1 damage equals to no damage so there's no actual hit. I used an upgraded card (2 damage) and it registered a hit.

 

Edited December 27, 2024 by juzjoss

[pseudonym1980]

I've enjoyed this mod so far and have some feedback.

 

Poison Fog feels like a mouth card much more so than a hands card.

 

Permanently adding Slime Residue feels really punishing. Bondage much less so, but I think the worst penalties definitely add too many Slime Residue. As an option to replace/dilute adding bad cards to deck permanently, I think buffing enemies or debuffing the player could be interesting. This could also include neutral results that aren't wins or losses like giving all characters dexterity/strength/block/healing/regen/poison/etc. Ex: Open chest for healing fountain that heals all characters 15HP and gives them 3 regen. Or open chest for poison fog trap that puts 10 poison on all characters. Open chest and trigger water sprinklers that give all characters 2 dexterity. You can also make things like this only affect the player or only affect enemies so I think this could make the chest quest card a little more interesting on average instead of relic or screw your deck at high risk.

 

I also have mixed feelings about the transformation reward since you can't target it. In normal games it is often a free strike/defend transform, but in draft or other game modes, its not as useful and can be worse than any other negative reward if it hits a valuable card. I wonder if it is possible to add a card transformation to the end of battle rewards.

 

Overall, it was pretty fun balancing poison/regen and all the mechanics added.

[oifhs]

What tools have you used to open, edit and recompile the .class files? 

[Atmey]

On 4/18/2025 at 8:14 PM, oifhs said:

What tools have you used to open, edit and recompile the .class files? 

 

Basically started from here:

https://github.com/Alchyr/BasicMod/wiki

 

Asked few questions on their discord wiki, and got things running.

[onedude9001]

Great mod.

Only the Treasure Chest is too OP. Just like a cheat, you can farm thousands of gold and all sorts of stuff in a couple of floors. The chance of success doesn't seem to work, always the best reward even on the most difficult chest.

 

UPD:
Oh, never mind. I just got lucky in a row.

Anyway, the mod is just great. Despite its NSFW orientation is very interesting to play. I will follow your future updates.

Edited May 16, 2025 by onedude9001