Better understanding of Decapitation

[Thulas]

Please note that my question is more about decapitation itself and not the fatalities which cause it, so don't be stupid and say "you need the perk and then it randomly occurs", that's not what I ask about.

 

How exactly does the decap-mechanics work?

Are they closely connected to the fatalities and death, or is it rather an additional effect that will be triggered?

If it isn't connected, is it possible then to reproduce the effect without death, maybe even revert it?

Is there a way to force this effect without the fatalities?

 

The reason I'd like to know more is that I need to know if is possible to create a "safe decap" mod, and if yes to get a hint how it could be done.

[Vioxsis]

Do you want to walk around and do stuff with a sump for your head? Or trying to do something else?

[Thulas]

There already is an equipable decap-head for that, but that's not exactly what I mean.

The mainidea was to create a spell that causes the PC to get decapitated on the first cast, and reverse the effect on the second cast. While the equipable decap-head would solve the problem to avoide death, it lacks the one thing that (in my eyes) is the big thing about decapitation: the severed head, lying manipulateable on the ground.

 

If I had a better understanding on how decap works, it might be rather easy to create that.

[MikeMetal]

As far as I've heard, using "tim" command which makes your character immortal/essential (can't get below 1hp) will still allow you to get decapitated while being low health, but you still survive with 1hp and can walk around with no head. Give it a try.

 

But do a hard save before doing this, you can permanent bug your characters with having no head after decapitation.

[Thulas]

That makes me wonder if the spell could activate that command itself and then causes the decapitation (without another actor needed).

[MikeMetal]

I'm pretty sure that's not possible with console alone, you need the finishing animation to trigger in order to get decapitated.

 

If this alright with you: try using player.placeatme 7, it'll spawn a clone of yourself and you can decapitate that. Try using tim on the clone, first.

[Thulas]

I tested it a few times; tim doesn't seem to prevent NPCs to get less than 1 health at all, it doesn't work with neither fatalities or normal kills.

Are you sure this should work? Or could it only work in the PC himself?

[MikeMetal]

Oh, then tim only works on yourself. Never tried it so I wasn't sure.

 

I'm outta of ideas now, unless you want to get decapitated the "normal" way, only by a script should be possible as alternative.

[Thulas]

Now that is strange; tim does as you said, even after a fatality there is no death. But even though decapchance was set to 100 and I added the perk to the npc, it didn't occured once.

[MikeMetal]

You can't add perks to npcs via console, it just doesn't have any effect. I can remember some npcs who can do that (as already having the perk), but do you really want to go on with it ?

[Thulas]

If it works, there is no need for you to give me that; only question now is how to do that via script.

[Pandaman]

Just a random observation, but slot 50 and 51 are reserved for DecapitatedHead and Decapitate respectively, if you look up "Decapitated" in the CK you'll see the head is actually an armor object (DB5D0) that occupies both slots and has the DecapitatedHeadAA and DecapitatedNeckAA models referenced. Theoretically what's happening is that whenever a decapitation event is triggered, the game just force-equips this "armor" onto your character.

 

You can even verify this by following the steps above to get decapirated while immortal, then using "player.showinventory" to see if you have a DecapitatedHead object hiding in there.

 

In the console you can try the usual additem and equipitem commands to see if you can equip a head that will roll around, while in the scripts you would use something like:

 

Armor Property DecapitatedHead Auto
 

Event OnSomeeventoranother(blah)

    akActor.EquipItem(DecapitatedHead, false, true)

EndEvent

 

Edit: just tried equipping it via console and had a bloody crack appear on the neck, but head refused to fall off. There must be another function that gives the head its own physics.

[Thulas]

Just a random observation, but slot 50 and 51 are reserved for DecapitatedHead and Decapitate respectively, if you look up "Decapitated" in the CK you'll see the head is actually an armor object (DB5D0) that occupies both slots and has the DecapitatedHeadAA and DecapitatedNeckAA models referenced. Theoretically what's happening is that whenever a decapitation event is triggered, the game just force-equips this "armor" onto your character.

 

You can even verify this by following the steps above to get decapirated while immortal, then using "player.showinventory" to see if you have a DecapitatedHead object hiding in there.

 

In the console you can try the usual additem and equipitem commands to see if you can equip a head that will roll around, while in the scripts you would use something like:

 

Armor Property DecapitatedHead Auto

 

Event OnSomeeventoranother(blah)

    akActor.EquipItem(DecapitatedHead, false, true)

EndEvent

 

Edit: just tried equipping it via console and had a bloody crack appear on the neck, but head refused to fall off. There must be another function that gives the head its own physics.

 

That's a good observation, but unfortunately exactly the point what you tried is the thing that I wonder about.

 

Also, after some testing with tim to survive the decapitation I realized that the player's head is only visible while in 3rd person and unfortunately can't be grabbed or manipulated. On top of that there rather often occurs a bug which screws animations up a bit.

 

[winny257]

this mod is the most illogical thing there is!

the first: a severed head is something final, head off = death!

the second: how can a human being with severed head ever see anything else, his perception is equal to zero, because without brain is the central control no longer exists?
to come at all on such an idea is in my eyes a little "crack-brained".

 

german \ deutsch !

 

diese mod ist das unlogischste was es gibt !

zum ersten : ein abgetrennter kopf ist etwas endgültiges , kopf ab = tod !

zum zweiten : wie kann ein mensch mit abgetrennten kopf überhaupt noch etwas sehen , seine wahrnehmung ist gleich null , denn ohne gehirn ist die steuerzentrale nicht mehr vorhanden ?
überhaupt auf so eine idee zu kommen ist in meinen augen etwas "hirn verbrannt" .

[MikeMetal]

this mod is the most illogical thing there is!

the first: a severed head is something final, head off = death!

the second: how can a human being with severed head ever see anything else, his perception is equal to zero, because without brain is the central control no longer exists?

to come at all on such an idea is in my eyes a little "crack-brained".

 

german \ deutsch !

 

diese mod ist das unlogischste was es gibt !

zum ersten : ein abgetrennter kopf ist etwas endgültiges , kopf ab = tod !

zum zweiten : wie kann ein mensch mit abgetrennten kopf überhaupt noch etwas sehen , seine wahrnehmung ist gleich null , denn ohne gehirn ist die steuerzentrale nicht mehr vorhanden ?

überhaupt auf so eine idee zu kommen ist in meinen augen etwas "hirn verbrannt" .

 

Is it ? You're seeking logic in a fantasy game where dragons and magic are everywhere ? But to not make me say a shitload of ilogical things in any TES game, I'll just resume to this "condition":

 

How is a headless guy galoping his horse ? How a headless zombie cadaver (TES IV) can still see and attack you ?

 

Maybe people want to roleplay undead character, maybe they want to see a walking body. That's no difference in illogical than G cup tits with makeup dressed skimpy characters in a frigid land looking like whores or character who carries and swings weapons twice their size without any problem.

[Thulas]

this mod is the most illogical thing there is!

the first: a severed head is something final, head off = death!

the second: how can a human being with severed head ever see anything else, his perception is equal to zero, because without brain is the central control no longer exists?

to come at all on such an idea is in my eyes a little "crack-brained".

 

german \ deutsch !

 

diese mod ist das unlogischste was es gibt !

zum ersten : ein abgetrennter kopf ist etwas endgültiges , kopf ab = tod !

zum zweiten : wie kann ein mensch mit abgetrennten kopf überhaupt noch etwas sehen , seine wahrnehmung ist gleich null , denn ohne gehirn ist die steuerzentrale nicht mehr vorhanden ?

überhaupt auf so eine idee zu kommen ist in meinen augen etwas "hirn verbrannt" .

 

You obviously didn't get what's it all about. My intention is to create a mod that assists taking screenshots involving decapitation and lends a helping hand to those who either want to have some silly fun by playing football with the own head, or actually enjoy the view.

 

 

diese mod ist das unlogischste was es gibt !

 

Wrong. A paradoxon's truth is far more unlogical.

 

 

zum ersten : ein abgetrennter kopf ist etwas endgültiges , kopf ab = tod !

 

So? It doesn't matter, it has nothing to do with the intentions of this mod.

 

zum zweiten : wie kann ein mensch mit abgetrennten kopf überhaupt

 

Another thing that simply doesn't matter. Keep in mind that it should be a simple spell for advanced usage; just use it, get the decapitation effect, do what ever you want to do - regardless if it is posing for screenshots or jerking off - and then use the spell a second time to undo the effects.

 

 

überhaupt auf so eine idee zu kommen ist in meinen augen etwas "hirn verbrannt" .

 

Just because you seem to be a consumer who only uses mods for his actual gameplay it doesn't mean that everything that isn't ment for it automatically is "hirnverbrannt". You'd have no use for it, fine. But don't judge people and their ideas for not fitting in your concept.

[Pandaman]

 

That's a good observation, but unfortunately exactly the point what you tried is the thing that I wonder about.

 

Also, after some testing with tim to survive the decapitation I realized that the player's head is only visible while in 3rd person and unfortunately can't be grabbed or manipulated. On top of that there rather often occurs a bug which screws animations up a bit.

 

 

 

Yeah, that further supports to theory that decapitation is just an armor piece that gets equipped. Switching to first person hides everything except the arms (or rather there's no first person model for helmets, which is a shame because having narrowed vision for wearing a massive helmet would be kinda cool in an immersive way up until it gets annoying), so the same applies to decapitation.

 

Not too sure why the player's head can't be manipulated in third person though, perhaps it's something related to the ragdoll physics applied to dead bodies that live actors don't have?

[Thulas]

 

Yeah, that further supports to theory that decapitation is just an armor piece that gets equipped. Switching to first person hides everything except the arms (or rather there's no first person model for helmets, which is a shame because having narrowed vision for wearing a massive helmet would be kinda cool in an immersive way up until it gets annoying), so the same applies to decapitation.

 

Not too sure why the player's head can't be manipulated in third person though, perhaps it's something related to the ragdoll physics applied to dead bodies that live actors don't have?

 

 

That might be the reason, but then it would be even more important how the mechanics that severe the head works, so this might be fixed.

 

There is another way how to simply ignore it though:

By creating a clone of the player via "player.placeatme 7" and decapitate that NPC. The head would be fully manipulateable, but on the downside the inventory isn't copied as well, which means that there'd be more work to do, like dragging the NPCs corpse out of the view, equip the decaphead and pose as if it would be the player's head.

 

This leads to the idea that instead of actual decapitate the PC, it might be possible to "create" a severed head that looks like the player's.

 

Here are the results of what I tested; just a simple posing: