question about bodyslide studio in MO2

[johntrine]

so, i have a question for people here who use mo2, does bodyslide studio crash/freeze your pc if you batch build all your outfits? i want to know if anyone know why this happens and how can it be solved so i dont have to spend the whole weekend batch building 25 outfits at a time while managing conflicts.

 

i've added example of these issue being experienced by others, below at this thread at this one,

Edited December 17, 2023 by johntrine

[traison]

19 minutes ago, johntrine said:

crash/freeze your pc

 

As in, the mouse stops working, and the capslock light on your keyboard no longer responds? If so then that means the kernel froze which means the issue is either the hardware (more likely) or a driver (anti-virus or device driver for example). Leave a RAM memory check (such as memtest86) running over night (4-8 hours).

 

Disclaimer: memtest86 has changed since I last used it (10 years ago). You'll have to evaluate whether or not it seems reasonable to you.

 

Edit: Open source alternative. Might be a better alternative?

 

Edit again: The open source alternative looks like the tool I used 10 years ago. I'd start with that.

Edited December 15, 2023 by traison

[traison]

Guess I shouldn't assume that this goes without saying, so I'm gonna say it: If you have any overclocking going (that includes "overclocking" software provided by the hardware vendor), turn it all off.

 

Edit: Another thing that seems obvious but should be mentioned: While less likely to be the cause, temperatures and voltages (i.e. your PSU and cooling). Get a utility like HWiNFO64 and grab your hardware manuals. Go through the optimal operation temperatures, and make sure your voltages are where they should be: 3.3V, 5V and 12V. Even small deviations (+/- 0.2V) could be significant.

Edited December 15, 2023 by traison

[LlenneiasWard]

i used to batch build ALL of my installed outfits in one go in the past and it happens as you described. switching to x64 bodyslide didn't help either. i now batch build per outfit/mod and overwrite the meshes per mod from the overwrite. takes a small amount of work as you add one or two outfits here or there but a pain when you have a new mod installation.

[johntrine]

11 hours ago, traison said:

 

As in, the mouse stops working, and the capslock light on your keyboard no longer responds? If so then that means the kernel froze which means the issue is either the hardware (more likely) or a driver (anti-virus or device driver for example). Leave a RAM memory check (such as memtest86) running over night (4-8 hours).

 

Disclaimer: memtest86 has changed since I last used it (10 years ago). You'll have to evaluate whether or not it seems reasonable to you.

 

Edit: Open source alternative. Might be a better alternative?

 

Edit again: The open source alternative looks like the tool I used 10 years ago. I'd start with that.

no. what happens is that the screen freezes and nothing works. you cant use mouse, open taskmanager or anything. it is just frozen. the only way to stop is to hit the power button.

8 hours ago, LlenneiasWard said:

i used to batch build ALL of my installed outfits in one go in the past and it happens as you described. switching to x64 bodyslide didn't help either. i now batch build per outfit/mod and overwrite the meshes per mod from the overwrite. takes a small amount of work as you add one or two outfits here or there but a pain when you have a new mod installation.

you too huh. what is fucked up is that the mod maker doesnt use mod manager so when i submitted the bug report, their answer was, "sounds like a whole lot of not my problem." i mean, not literally, but had the same emotional energy. since i was using a mod which changes the body of player and npc in game based on food and exercise, i wanted to change the bodyslide preset to something less curvier than what i use. that however would end up ruining my whole weekend.

[traison]

1 hour ago, johntrine said:

no. what happens is that the screen freezes and nothing works. you cant use mouse, open taskmanager or anything. it is just frozen. the only way to stop is to hit the power button.

 

Bad hardware or overclocking, unfortuantely. You could also consider dropping ram memory frequency if your motherboard/bios/cpu/dimms support it, especially if you have XMP (or AMD's equivalent) enabled.

 

Edit: To clarify, XMP profiles are considered overclocking by the manufacturer.

Edited December 16, 2023 by traison

[johntrine]

7 hours ago, traison said:

 

Bad hardware or overclocking, unfortuantely. You could also consider dropping ram memory frequency if your motherboard/bios/cpu/dimms support it, especially if you have XMP (or AMD's equivalent) enabled.

 

Edit: To clarify, XMP profiles are considered overclocking by the manufacturer.

brother, i aint overclocking. and this issue has happened to me before and after i added a new ram stick. this is something that happens when you have a lot of outfits and you use bodyslide studio with mo2. even the mod dev know this.

[traison]

4 minutes ago, johntrine said:

brother, i aint overclocking. and this issue has happened to me before and after i added a new ram stick. this is something that happens when you have a lot of outfits and you use bodyslide studio with mo2. even the mod dev know this.

 

Then report it to Microsoft, as you've found a serious flaw in the Windows kernel.

[johntrine]

4 hours ago, traison said:

 

Then report it to Microsoft, as you've found a serious flaw in the Windows kernel.

the issue is with bodyslide outfit running through mo2 my guy. how is that a microsoft problem???

[traison]

26 minutes ago, johntrine said:

the issue is with bodyslide outfit running through mo2 my guy. how is that a microsoft problem???

 

First of all, I'm not being serious, they'd laugh at you. MO2 is a program running in usermode. Thus it is technically not capable of freezing the kernel, unless the kernel has a serious flaw in it. If the kernel had a flaw like this, sure, it should be reported to Microsoft.  I've said what I think of this problem - to me it is obvious. I'm out.

[johntrine]

23 hours ago, traison said:

 

First of all, I'm not being serious, they'd laugh at you. MO2 is a program running in usermode. Thus it is technically not capable of freezing the kernel, unless the kernel has a serious flaw in it. If the kernel had a flaw like this, sure, it should be reported to Microsoft.  I've said what I think of this problem - to me it is obvious. I'm out.

while i would love to use colorful words to thank you for your helpfulness, i would be the bigger man and just not.

 

in case anyone else is comming here and wondering what i mean, here are some example of other people having the same problem and official github threads being made, i'll add it to op.

 

reddit example 1

github thread 1

github example 2

reddit example 2

[traison]

One of those links describe a vastly different problem than what you've described in this post. You should clarify what you mean by computer freezing, if all those links truly describe your problem.

 

It's not a problem with MO/MO2 because, and I quote:

This does not 'only occur with MO' I've got the same problem with vortex.

 

If the kernel is frozen like you suggested, then the instructions in the following quote would not be possible:

Quote

To get out of it:
Win+r type cmd enter

...

 

So, again, is your kernel frozen, or not?

[johntrine]

10 hours ago, traison said:

One of those links describe a vastly different problem than what you've described in this post. You should clarify what you mean by computer freezing, if all those links truly describe your problem.

i literally mentioned the same thing above. i know i did, because i've been combing through the internet and know verbatum the terms to look up dozen of dead end threads mentioning that. it is not my fault that when i mention mo2 and bodyslide studio, you think kernel and microsoft.

10 hours ago, traison said:

It's not a problem with MO/MO2 because, and I quote:

This does not 'only occur with MO' I've got the same problem with vortex.

look. i roughly understand that issue might be due to virtual deployment method used by mo/mo2 and vortex having to process too many outfits. how do i know that? i've had confirmation that this doesnt happen when you dont use mod manager by the dev of bodyslide studio over at nexus. i asked for mo2 specificly, because i use mo2, and this is more common with mo2 because vortex users dont mod their game as heavily and have too many outfits to cause this issue.

10 hours ago, traison said:

If the kernel is frozen like you suggested, then the instructions in the following quote would not be possible:

Quote

To get out of it:
Win+r type cmd enter

...

 

So, again, is your kernel frozen, or not?

what happens is to total system lock down. nothing works. so no, pressing win+r does jack diddly squat. so i would say that my whole pc has frozen as i mentioned on the first post.

[traison]

10 minutes ago, johntrine said:

what happens is to total system lock down. nothing works. so no, pressing win+r does jack diddly squat. so i would say that my whole pc has frozen as i mentioned on the first post.

 

The only thing you can say from that is that the UI is locked up, which is sigificantly different from a kernel freeze. The capslock key light, which you said didn't react, is a somewhat reliable way to test if the kernel is alive. Another thing that would be a dead-giveaway is to have a media player playing music when the freeze happens. If the music stops, your kernel died.

 

11 minutes ago, johntrine said:

i roughly understand that issue might be due to virtual deployment method used by mo/mo2 and vortex having to process too many outfits.

 

The issue with this is that the 2 applications use vastly different deployment methods as you've already figured out. If we assume that the kernel actually freezes here, it would mean that there's 2 entirely different problems in it, both leading to a similar freeze. One freeze caused by a syscall from one of the proxied IO winapi functions in usvfs (mo2) and another in the ntfs driver caused by the hardlinks used by vortex. The fact that vortex would have such a flaw is even less likely than mo2, because every file on your system is already a hardlink. What vortex does is actually only slightly different from copying a file, seen from this perspective. If vortex can freeze your system, it would in theory mean opening 10,000 files in notepad very rapidly would also do it; or to put it another way, it would be impossible to run any decently sized enterprise software on a Windows machine.

[traison]

Actually... I vaguely recall someone saying the reason why Outfit Studio can never be automated/scripted is because it uses the rendering code/loop to do some of its work. If we assume that Bodyslide does something similar, as in, it renders the outfit to some off-screen surface in order to do calculations/morphs/whatever, that could also mean the freeze is real (as in, a real kernel freeze) but its not because of file IO traffic but rather you display driver. The driver fails to do garbage collection (or something along these lines) and chokes when the 700th outfit is rendered for processing. This explains why mo2 and vortex are both freezing; it doesn't explain why it doesn't freeze without a mod manager, obviously.

 

Can you change your display driver, or otherwise change this situation to see if it has an effect on things?

 

Edit: Also, test that media player music thing I mentioned in my previous post.

Edited December 18, 2023 by traison

[johntrine]

videos on youtube continue to play though they sometimes slow down. not buffering, just slow down when said freezing happens.

if it is a display driver issue, then i wanna know if this a purely amd issue? i created this thread to find other people who had same issue and see if there are some common factors

Edited December 18, 2023 by johntrine

[traison]

1 hour ago, johntrine said:

videos on youtube continue to play though they sometimes slow down

 

Then your system is not frozen and this is merely a UI glitch of some kind. Theres a chance to find a solution to this afterall. Question now is, how do we regain control; how do we unfreeze it. This is the kind of problem I'd have to see for myself, get my hands on it as it were, so I probably can't help that much from here. Poking and prodding it looking for a change of any kind would be key going forwards.

 

You could consider these silly ideas:

1. Running BodySlide with compatibility settings applied. 256 color mode, Windows XP, anything.
2. Adding a scheduled task to terminate the BodySlide app in N minutes, and making sure it freezes before then. If tasksched is able to unfreeze your UI by terminating the app, that's a massive step forwards.
3. Adding a scheduled task to log the current user out in N minutes, and making sure it freezes before then.

[johntrine]

9 hours ago, traison said:

Running BodySlide with compatibility settings applied. 256 color mode, Windows XP, anything

i could try that.

did nothing. just in case, if i apply the setting to the bodyslide exe but run it through mo2, the setting should still apply, yes?

also i should add i used vista since xp wasnt an option. dont know when microsoft removed that.

9 hours ago, traison said:

1. Adding a scheduled task to terminate the BodySlide app in N minutes, and making sure it freezes before then. If tasksched is able to unfreeze your UI by terminating the app, that's a massive step forwards.
2. Adding a scheduled task to log the current user out in N minutes, and making sure it freezes before then.

mind if i ask how to set up a scheduled task for a custom sorftware that isnt microsoft software

[traison]

Compatibility options are applied from the kernel if I'm not mistaken so that should be fine. It was a silly idea anyways, not surprised it did nothing.

 

As for the scheduled task:

1. Open start menu.
2. Task Scheduler
3. Create Task...
4. Give it a name.
5. Triggers -> New...
6. On a schedule -> One time -> Set the time 10-15 mins in the future or so, depending on how fast you are.
7. Actions -> New...
8. Start a program -> "taskkill.exe"
9. Add arguments: /IM "BodySlide x64.exe"
   • Note the quotes and verify the exe name, there's multiple.
10. Go through the settings tab, make sure everything is ok there. Maybe disable the AC power check if you're on a laptop, or similar.
11. Consider checking the "Run with highest privileges" box under General (depending on what kind of permissions your user has).

The log out task should be similar, but the command is "shutdown.exe /L". With this one, be absolutely sure the task does not run repeatedly, as something like this would lock you out of your computer, should it run every time you log in. Practice with opening notepad.exe if in doubt.

 

Also, you can practice and verify the taskkill and shutdown commands by issuing them manually from powershell/terminal or cmd. Recommended if you haven't used these before.