Are FO4 cloth physics just broken?

[brewmasterhal]

Seems like there are a ton of issues with physically simulated bones in FO4.

• Have to set up AAF in a specific way with specific bodies to get body physics to work correctly.  Have to save and reload after changing nearly anything or physics freeze entirely when AAF starts, resulting in mega stretchy floating boobs/hair/skirts/etc.
• All breasts/butts in the loaded cell appear to reset on a regular basis (every time a menu is closed, every time the game stutters, every time there's a loading screen, etc.  Makes it look like an army of ghosts are just slapping the shit out of everyone's tits every 30 seconds or so.
• Most of the cloth physics seem to have the stiffness and restitution set to nearly 100%, so skirts and hairs are stiff like they've been dipped in ice and frozen.  They move just enough for me to tell that the physics are "working" but they'll only bend about 2% away from the equilibrium point for a frame or so at a time.

I suspect that these issues are - for the most part - caused by oversights or bad settings that are unique to my current setup.  For instance, I know that sudden FPS drops are a common cause of physics weirdness in games, specifically the shield bounce glitch in Breath of the Wild and the mega jump bug in Doom Eternal.  I would expect that a similar issue causes the boobquake I see so often.  As far as the cloth physics problems, I know that the Skyrim can experience a similar problem with FPS values outside an expected range.

 

What I'm asking is: are these problems that are just limitations of the engine, or does the community know of things that I can do to fix these things?  The AAF issues, I think, are just inherent to either the way that AAF handles animations or the way it creates NPC clones of the participants in the scene, and thus cannot be fixed other than the save/load trick and being careful with the body choices.  The other two issues I expect are fixable, I just need someone who knows how because googling for these kinds of fixes is more-or-less futile.

[Nuka Cherry]

Many physics problems in F04 are an FPS issue. You could try capping FPS at 60, turn down Godrays and lower texture quality. Reduce the number of concurrent physics mods (i.e. grass, etc) and perhaps disable the ENB. I find physics is very much a waveform in Fo4.

 

In a quiet area, jiggles all over. In Boston, not so much.

[IBAGadget]

also note that when it comes to hair, most hair mods do not have physics at all, as they do not have 'bones'

hairstyles that do have SMP physics tend to be worn as wigs, so anything that strips your character is likely to strip the hair off as well.

 

I tend to stick to short hairstyles partly for this reason, and also because I have some jewellry mods and I like to be able to see my characters earrings.

[South8028]

The physics of tits and ass has long been on cbp bones, works with ocbp. It would be reasonable to just have a skeleton with universal cbp bones for the physics of everything... Skirts, hair... I can attach bones and register them in ocbp, but they should probably all be registered in skeleton.hkx? Because if the bones are simply attached to the skeleton and registered in ocbp, then they are inert. Does not work. The physics of havok, bone cloth, is bad because there are no manuals for creating it in 3ds (although the bgs tools themselves are there, there is no description for them). The OS does not yet support these bones and they cannot be copied along with the skeleton bones. Regular game physics (objects) are simple and such collisions are easy to do in 3ds. Performance is proportional to the number of vertices in interacting collisions.

[brewmasterhal]

18 hours ago, Nuka Cherry said:

Many physics problems in F04 are an FPS issue. You could try capping FPS at 60, turn down Godrays and lower texture quality. Reduce the number of concurrent physics mods (i.e. grass, etc) and perhaps disable the ENB. I find physics is very much a waveform in Fo4.

 

In a quiet area, jiggles all over. In Boston, not so much.

 

Some experimentation with the FPS capping settings in High FPS Physics Fix have revealed that the cloth/hair physics are indeed FPS dependent.  I can set the cap way down to 30, and the cloth/hair move in a more expected fashion but everything has mega high gravity so everyone has saggy granny tits.  Cloth behaves better below 30 but gravity gets stronger as well.  Above 30, cloth becomes increasingly stiff but gravity is reduced until the gravity is finally as expected somewhere in the 75 FPS range.  What's funny about all this is that one would expect a mod with a name like "High FPS Physics Fix" to fix such a problem...

 

Only physics mods I have are clothing and hair, no trees or grass or any other world object.  Also, I don't have ENB on this MO profile.

 

6 hours ago, IBAGadget said:

also note that when it comes to hair, most hair mods do not have physics at all, as they do not have 'bones'

hairstyles that do have SMP physics tend to be worn as wigs, so anything that strips your character is likely to strip the hair off as well.

 

I tend to stick to short hairstyles partly for this reason, and also because I have some jewellry mods and I like to be able to see my characters earrings.

 

These hairs definitely have physics.  Bones, BSClothExtraData, everything necessary to have working physics simulation.

 

52 minutes ago, South8028 said:

The physics of tits and ass has long been on cbp bones, works with ocbp. It would be reasonable to just have a skeleton with universal cbp bones for the physics of everything... Skirts, hair... I can attach bones and register them in ocbp, but they should probably all be registered in skeleton.hkx? Because if the bones are simply attached to the skeleton and registered in ocbp, then they are inert. Does not work. The physics of havok, bone cloth, is bad because there are no manuals for creating it in 3ds (although the bgs tools themselves are there, there is no description for them). The OS does not yet support these bones and they cannot be copied along with the skeleton bones. Regular game physics (objects) are simple and such collisions are easy to do in 3ds. Performance is proportional to the number of vertices in interacting collisions.

 

I have OCBP installed, and the bones animate.  They just animate in a really poor facsimile of reality, because of some weird FPS issue.

Edited December 1, 2023 by brewmasterhal

[South8028]

1 hour ago, brewmasterhal said:

 

Some experimentation with the FPS capping settings in High FPS Physics Fix have revealed that the cloth/hair physics are indeed FPS dependent.  I can set the cap way down to 30, and the cloth/hair move in a more expected fashion but everything has mega high gravity so everyone has saggy granny tits.  Cloth behaves better below 30 but gravity gets stronger as well.  Above 30, cloth becomes increasingly stiff but gravity is reduced until the gravity is finally as expected somewhere in the 75 FPS range.  What's funny about all this is that one would expect a mod with a name like "High FPS Physics Fix" to fix such a problem...

 

Only physics mods I have are clothing and hair, no trees or grass or any other world object.  Also, I don't have ENB on this MO profile.

 

 

These hairs definitely have physics.  Bones, BSClothExtraData, everything necessary to have working physics simulation.

 

 

I have OCBP installed, and the bones animate.  They just animate in a really poor facsimile of reality, because of some weird FPS issue.

These bones are not animated in the latest zaz skeletons. The dice simply oscillate within the parameters... jumping, gravity, tics, etc. In the game, they are somehow processed by the cbp library, that is, the engine for common world abbreviations. Probably something similar in principle to a rag doll. I don't actually know how it works, I'm just guessing. Everything works for me without problems and looks quite realistic. Doesn't affect fps at all. My game is locked at 60fps. For fo4 the 60fps limit is necessary. Under no circumstances should it be higher.

 

Edited December 1, 2023 by South8028