What overhaul mods this game needs??

[RohZima]

I think as long as the space travel, ship experience can be made to feel good and immersive - that will be good enough. At least then there will be one critical aspect of the game that functions well.

 

I'll just ignore factions and quests.

 

I don't expect ground exploration to be salvageable but you never know.

[RohZima]

17 hours ago, Mr. Otaku said:

 

Good points overall, my perspective is to have the star map act as just a map that only allows to set courses and nothing else. The reason i emphasized on super speed within a single solar system is to allow the illusion that you're making a long trek to another planet in the same system. There can also be a cruise control/autopilot system to allow us to get off the cockpit and move around the ship as it continues set course, maybe also add an alert system if there are enemies nearby using the same command checks that prevent us from fast traveling in similar conditions.

 

As for interstellar travel, that has to be through grav drive only so adding fuel cost to range ratio as a legit factor will further enhance the experience. I'm thinking the grav jump space distortion effect being the actual load screen as opposed to showing that and then showing a black load screen right after. Games that "don't have load screens" do have them, they just hide them very well but for some reason Bethesda thought that wasn't important or something held them back, flip a coin.

 

If we can figure out how to get rid of the barriers between each tiles and not have the game crash when you remove it by force that would be great, then we can maybe hope for a vehicle mod of some kind.

 

I personally don't believe there is any barrier between tiles because I don't think they are connected. You can only pick, I think 5 landing areas. You could pick a pixel next to another one and you could not be able to see any of the features in the adjacent tile. You could pick the same pixel 10 times over and it will generate a totally different tile each time.

 

I don't believe there is any connection between tiles, literally just biome type and that's the only data. Maybe I'm wrong.

 

For system travel, if you had super-speed that would mean no combat encounters. I think the only way would be to reduce the distances conventionally so that, say, the maximum time to go from one side to the other was 2 hours or something. You could have ship encounters along the route then an alarm and red flashing going on inside the ship. Plus add more ship activities. I'm a Trek fan so most of my wish fulfillment is coming from Next Generation.

[polska]

On 10/29/2023 at 6:11 AM, belegost said:

Starfield is so bland and boring, there is no way any amount of modding can save it. The problem is on a fundamental level of how the game was designed and not just lack of things. The biggest issue is lack of any actual exploration. It's just a bunch of loading screens, nothing more.

What I expected was "See that star? You can fly there". Instead I got "See that star? You can load there".

 

This game would need to have been redesigned from scratch. I fear for Elder Scrolls 6.

exactly my opinion except for TES6. i dont fear for TES6, I KNOW TES6 will suck ass because bethesda doesnt exist anymore, its microsoft now.

[DocClox]

4 hours ago, RohZima said:

I don't believe there is any connection between tiles, literally just biome type and that's the only data. Maybe I'm wrong.

 

Common misconception regarding "tiles". In pre-release interviews, Todd said the planets consisted of 1km by 1km mapped onto a sphere. There is no reason to doubt this. That said, I have personally traveled more than 2km from my landing site, usually doing one of those poxy survey missions for a science outpost somewhere. So clearly we are not limited to a single tile.

 

On the other hand, an early leaked screenshot did appear to show a popup saying "you can't go any further in this direction", so there would definitely seem to be a limit. From what we could find out at the time, the poster had to run in one direction for 40 minutes or so before hitting that barrier, suggesting that the explorable area is large. Someone did some calculations based on movement speed and estimated that the playable area from any one landing is about eight times the size of Skyrim's map.

 

So basically - you land, the game loads up, let's say, 81 tiles in an 9x9 grid centered on your landing tile. If you build an outpost, you get a new landing location, and then you can land at that point and get a new set of 9x9 tiles, centered on the new landing location.

 

'Least, that's my understanding of how it works. All subject to change once we get an actual CK of course.

Edited October 31, 2023 by DocClox

[phillout]

An alternate start mod and something like Nuka Ride for Fo4, so the game will have at least one story worth playing.

[Miauzi]

Of course, the tiles are different sizes.

A little knowledge of earthly geography would already help ... because the "tiles" are based on the system of longitude and latitude.

A "tile" at the equator has the largest surface area ... and smallest near the poles.

In addition, there is the circumstance of the different sizes of the celestial bodies ... because I myself had reached the actually existing border (you get this "famous" message) with less kilometres of walking on a small moon than on an inhabited planet.

Now, I didn't consciously go through the different sizes of planets and moons in the 30 days (1 month Gamepass) of my game ... but it would make little sense to use a uniform "net" (number of tiles) for all celestial bodies ... the dimensions of a single tile would then probably vary between 1x1 km (small moons) and 10x10 km (large planets).

For myself, the differences in the distance "map border" to the landing point of the spaceship were between 2.5 km and 4.0 km ... But I had neither the time nor the motivation for systematic testing.

But when "faith" replaces self-acquired knowledge ... well ...

[Halstrom]

Needs common place Alien races similar to Star Wars/Trek, Too many humans is boring.

[Miauzi]

Vor 14 Minuten sagte Halstrom:

Braucht einen gemeinsamen Platz, außerirdische Rassen ähnlich wie Star Wars/Trek. Zu viele Menschen sind langweilig.

 

If you make the "aliens" just as boring as the humans ... please what is supposed to improve?

And how should the "aliens" relate to the "humans" technologically?

Where are their home planets?

What do they think of the grav-anomalies or the temples or the artefacts?

Honestly ... it needs a completely new game and not pointless attempts to fix something ... that was never fully developed.

[Reigor]

1 hour ago, Halstrom said:

Needs common place Alien races similar to Star Wars/Trek, Too many humans is boring.

 

I would have liked to have seen something along the lines of Stellaris or Cthulhu mythos, where there could have been more than one precursor race(s) that rose and fell over billions of years. Like perhaps the artifact builders were the first race to evolve and become interstellar billion years ago. They went away for whatever reason and then tens of millions of years later another race rose up, spread out and went away and so on. Humans are just the most recent race to reach interstellar travel.  

 

Not being able to explore alien ruins nor the game seeming to have the major factions have knowledge that aliens existed was a big disappointment for me.  Same thing for some sort of first contact style gameplay. Why not have a world with primitive, but sapient aliens?

 

The otherside of the coin for me is that I think that Starfield humans are boring. Where are the cyborgs, androids, bioroids, genetically modified humans, etc that a society 300 years in the future should have? 

 

So those are two areas I would like to see mod overhauls in. One that brings some xenoarcheology and xenoanthropology, the sci-fi version of Indiana Jones, and another that brings some transhuman elements to character creation and NPCs.

[RohZima]

3 hours ago, Miauzi said:

Of course, the tiles are different sizes.

A little knowledge of earthly geography would already help ... because the "tiles" are based on the system of longitude and latitude.

A "tile" at the equator has the largest surface area ... and smallest near the poles.

In addition, there is the circumstance of the different sizes of the celestial bodies ... because I myself had reached the actually existing border (you get this "famous" message) with less kilometres of walking on a small moon than on an inhabited planet.

Now, I didn't consciously go through the different sizes of planets and moons in the 30 days (1 month Gamepass) of my game ... but it would make little sense to use a uniform "net" (number of tiles) for all celestial bodies ... the dimensions of a single tile would then probably vary between 1x1 km (small moons) and 10x10 km (large planets).

For myself, the differences in the distance "map border" to the landing point of the spaceship were between 2.5 km and 4.0 km ... But I had neither the time nor the motivation for systematic testing.

But when "faith" replaces self-acquired knowledge ... well ...

 

So you think Bethesda would make the effort to get the tile proportions accurate the closer you get to the poles or equator???

 

The reason I don't think they are connected is because there is no purpose to that in terms of how they made the game - there is no possibility of any interaction between tiles like crossing the Cyrodiil border. Also, when you look at your planet map to select your landing area, you can literally click on any pixel, the tiles are not denoted by any segmentation on the planet map. That's why I think the game just gets a few bits of data - day/night cycle and biome, then creates a tile based on that info.

 

If you made the tiles hexagon shape then you could do a link between two tiles without it seeming too hacked. You could rename "Landing Area" to something better then get a map marker on the edge. It would seem stupid if the next tile was very far away though, because it would mean that you walked across a planets surface and left your ship in the previous place. That would seem so stupid.

 

I think tiles just need a much better map and ability to rename/delete landing areas and delete POI's. And an improved menu for doing all that.

[RohZima]

1 hour ago, Halstrom said:

Needs common place Alien races similar to Star Wars/Trek, Too many humans is boring.

 

They gave you the astral dancers... So that's somehting 

 

 

[Miauzi]

20 minutes ago, Reigor said:

 

Ich hätte gerne etwas in der Art des Stellaris- oder Cthulhu-Mythos gesehen, wo es mehr als eine Vorläuferrasse(n) gegeben haben könnte, die über Milliarden von Jahren aufstiegen und untergingen. Vielleicht waren die Artefaktbauer die erste Rasse, die sich vor Milliarden Jahren entwickelte und interstellar wurde. Aus welchem Grund auch immer verschwanden sie, und zig Millionen Jahre später entstand eine andere Rasse, breitete sich aus und verschwand und so weiter. Der Mensch ist nur die jüngste Rasse, die interstellare Reisen erreicht hat. 

 

Für mich war es eine große Enttäuschung, dass ich nicht in der Lage war, Alien-Ruinen zu erkunden, und dass das Spiel den Eindruck erweckte, dass die großen Fraktionen nicht wussten, dass Aliens existierten. Das Gleiche gilt für eine Art Erstkontakt-Gameplay. Warum nicht eine Welt mit primitiven, aber klugen Außerirdischen haben?

 

Die Kehrseite der Medaille ist für mich, dass ich Starfield-Menschen für langweilig halte. Wo sind die Cyborgs, Androiden, Bioroiden, genetisch veränderten Menschen usw., die eine Gesellschaft in 300 Jahren in der Zukunft haben sollte? 

 

Das sind also zwei Bereiche, in denen ich gerne Mod-Überarbeitungen sehen würde. Einer, der etwas Xenoarchäologie und Xenoanthropologie einbringt, die Science-Fiction-Version von Indiana Jones, und ein anderer, der einige transhumane Elemente in die Charaktererstellung und NPCs einbringt.

 

These temples haven't stood for 1,000,000 years - planetary geology (such as earthquakes, ice ages, etc.) would have "filled in" or "silted up" or "whatever" long ago.

You don't even need to look at a period of 1,000,000,000 years here... I myself live in the north-east of D-Land (Berlin) - the 3,000 meter high glaciers have passed through here several times in the last 1,000,000 years.

Look at the "Alps" or the "Andes" or some other "fold mountain range"... anything significantly younger than 1,000,000,000 years

No - there has to be a clearly believable plot... like "Babylon 5" has in my opinion... with the "very first" - the "Volons" or the "Shadows" etc.

[Miauzi]

Vor 15 Minuten sagte RohZima:

 

Glauben Sie also, dass Bethesda sich die Mühe machen würde, die Proportionen der Fliesen umso präziser zu gestalten, je näher man den Polen oder dem Äquator kommt?

 

Der Grund, warum ich nicht glaube, dass sie miteinander verbunden sind, liegt darin, dass dies im Hinblick auf die Art und Weise, wie sie das Spiel gemacht haben, keinen Zweck hat – es gibt keine Möglichkeit einer Interaktion zwischen den Spielsteinen, wie z. B. das Überqueren der Cyrodiil-Grenze. Wenn Sie sich außerdem Ihre Planetenkarte ansehen, um Ihren Landebereich auszuwählen, können Sie buchstäblich auf jedes Pixel klicken, die Kacheln werden durch keine Segmentierung auf der Planetenkarte gekennzeichnet. Aus diesem Grund denke ich, dass das Spiel nur ein paar Datenbits erhält – Tag-/Nachtzyklus und Biom – und dann auf der Grundlage dieser Informationen eine Kachel erstellt.

 

Wenn Sie die Fliesen sechseckig gestalten würden, könnten Sie eine Verbindung zwischen zwei Fliesen herstellen, ohne dass es zu gehackt wirkt. Sie könnten „Landeplatz“ in einen besseren Namen umbenennen, als eine Kartenmarkierung am Rand anzubringen. Es wäre jedoch dumm, wenn das nächste Plättchen sehr weit entfernt wäre, denn das würde bedeuten, dass Sie über die Oberfläche eines Planeten gelaufen sind und Ihr Schiff an der vorherigen Stelle zurückgelassen haben. Das kommt mir so dumm vor.

 

Ich denke, Kacheln brauchen einfach eine viel bessere Karte und die Möglichkeit, Landebereiche umzubenennen/löschen und POIs zu löschen. Und ein verbessertes Menü für all das.

 

Again -> "belief" but NOT "knowledge"

No exchange is possible on the base... you can finally walk with your character to the map border... on celestial bodies of different sizes

No point in “connecting” the tiles? ... I'm just saying -> biome transitions

are available ... are documented in videos ... can be experienced in real life with the "coast" and are also necessary ... precisely because you can't land in the ocean - but you still need scans of the animals living in the sea

[Halstrom]

1 hour ago, RohZima said:

 

They gave you the astral dancers... So that's somehting 

 

 

Pretty sure they are just costumed humans

[Kit Nova]

Not exactly an overhaul but as for aliens I had a neat idea, or at least I think it'd be a neat idea... imagine finding a large artifact in space, some sort of ship sized stargate portal or something akin to the mass relay from Mass Effect that could take the player to a distant part of the galaxy, seeing as the game currently only takes place in a relatively small part of the Milky Way around Earth, and in this distant arm there's all sorts of intelligent alien life, and maybe some humans with a different home planet or some weird background story that know nothing about Earth, kinda like Farscape.

[Miauzi]

2 hours ago, Kit Nova said:

Nicht gerade eine Überarbeitung, aber was die Außerirdischen betrifft, hatte ich eine nette Idee, oder zumindest denke ich, dass es eine gute Idee wäre ... Stellen Sie sich vor, Sie finden ein großes Artefakt im Weltraum, eine Art Sternentorportal in Schiffsgröße oder etwas Ähnliches wie die Masse Staffel von Mass Effect, die den Spieler in einen entfernten Teil der Galaxie bringen könnte, da das Spiel derzeit nur in einem relativ kleinen Teil der Milchstraße rund um die Erde spielt und in diesem entfernten Arm alle Arten intelligenten außerirdischen Lebens leben, und vielleicht ein paar Menschen mit einem anderen Heimatplaneten oder einer seltsamen Hintergrundgeschichte, die nichts über die Erde wissen, ein bisschen wie Farscape.

 

This is the only way a meaningful implementation of aliens could even be possible... without completely rewriting this game.

But this would require mods the size of DLC - which are based on things like "Fallout California", for example.

Certainly a very good idea - but even a very large group of mod authors would be busy with it for several years.

[RohZima]

13 hours ago, Miauzi said:

 

Again -> "belief" but NOT "knowledge"

No exchange is possible on the base... you can finally walk with your character to the map border... on celestial bodies of different sizes

No point in “connecting” the tiles? ... I'm just saying -> biome transitions

are available ... are documented in videos ... can be experienced in real life with the "coast" and are also necessary ... precisely because you can't land in the ocean - but you still need scans of the animals living in the sea

 

I am not claiming to know - I am merely assuming.

 

OK, tell me how I can verify this "connection." What test can I do. I'll do it to satisfy my own curiosity.

 

And what is the type of connection? Do we even understand each other here? I am saying on the engine side there is no logical link between two "Landing Areas" on a planet.

 

I've been modding these games since Oblivion, my guess is based on my knowledge of how Bethesda implement this stuff.

 

For instance there is a logical link between a cell like the Thalmor Embassy interior and the Thalmor Embassy exterior - but that has to be defined manually. And it only contains very simple data.

 

If the game creates links between LA's, for, maybe cargo links, it will only contain extremely simple data and not relative coordinate data.

[Miauzi]

Vor 4 Stunden sagte RohZima:

 

Ich behaupte nicht, es zu wissen – ich vermute nur.

 

OK, sagen Sie mir, wie ich diese „Verbindung“ überprüfen kann. Welchen Test kann ich machen? Ich werde es tun, um meine eigene Neugier zu befriedigen.

 

Und was ist die Art der Verbindung? Verstehen wir uns hier überhaupt? Ich sage, dass es auf der Triebwerksseite keine logische Verbindung zwischen zwei „Landeplätzen“ auf einem Planeten gibt.

 

Ich modifiziere diese Spiele seit Oblivion, meine Vermutung basiert auf meinem Wissen darüber, wie Bethesda diese Dinge umsetzt.

 

Beispielsweise gibt es eine logische Verbindung zwischen einer Zelle wie dem Innenraum der Thalmor-Botschaft und dem Außenbereich der Thalmor-Botschaft – diese muss jedoch manuell definiert werden. Und es enthält nur sehr einfache Daten.

 

Wenn das Spiel Verbindungen zwischen LAs herstellt, beispielsweise Frachtverbindungen, enthält es nur äußerst einfache Daten und keine relativen Koordinatendaten.

 

Yes - I know that they develop mods - I even use some of them... big thanks at this point

However, what this company has done here with the design of the landscape... is a procedural generation... which essentially occurs when you land on a planet or moon.

Certain things in the topography are variable - so that another player who "clicks" on the same "pixel" in the planetary map on the same planet - gets a differently shaped landscape.

It still belongs to the same biome (fauna & flora type) - but how "mountainous" or how "flat" it ultimately is... is decided by the random generator.

In Sykrim, however, this is completely different... the landscape is "finished" before you start the game and looks the same for all players (without mods).

That means nothing other than that until now everything in the landscape has been PREFABRICATED... and is not created when you enter.

The area of the "landscape" generated in Starfield is significantly smaller and when you stand at the border of the landing zone after a 2-4 km walk... well, what do you see?

This landscape (including fauna and flora) continues without any break behind this invisible wall.

Yes, this was certainly the case with Skyrim too... only then everything (down to the position of the last blade of grass) was "built" in the games studio... in Starfield, this is all created when you land in the selected zone.

 

Depending on the topography, the “generator” must work for at least 1-2 km beyond this limit or generate the adjacent landing zones at the same time.

You start from the first method... I from the second.

Why do I assume the second one?

I'll say it again -> Biomes and the transitions between them.

Biomes ALWAYS extend over more than one landing zone - but what happens if my selected landing zone (forest) is in close proximity to another biome (steppe).

Is there a transition that I can see on the ground?

Yes, there is - players have proven this and posted videos about it online.

If you don't want to look for them or don't trust them... the only thing left is to try it yourself.

Without information about the adjacent landing zone, correct generation of the visible landscape change would not be possible... that's what I refer to as "connected".

[Miauzi]

Zur Ergänzung:

 

Biome transitions do NOT take place at the map border but rather within the selected landing zone (if one exists).

Otherwise there would be no coastal strip at the transition from land to sea - which one could "travel" for the necessary scans of "fish".

(The "sea" biome is currently a pure 2D area - the animals move underneath in an "empty space" - in some animal species I could see a clear up and down movement in my scans - similar to whales)

But the biome transitions on land are also designed this way... see video

But if it weren't for the "informal link" between neighboring landing zones, these crossings would hardly be in the correct places.

And yes - there are transitions not only from 2 but also from 3 (or even 4) biomes - even if the change, for example, between ice desert and savannah seems very "sudden".

Unlike the coastal region - which even has its own suffix ("coast") in the planetary overview map... the transitions between two land biomes are very difficult to find... see the comments.

[cheese76]

emmm ithank need CBBE

[Kraven12]

On 10/29/2023 at 3:55 AM, belegost said:

 

 

What I want is:

• atmospheric flight and landing
• actually traversable planet surfaces, with vehicles
• unique planet surfaces with unique and diverse flora and fauna
• ability to land outside of settlements and being able to just walk/sneak/charge-guns-blazing in and out, without having to land inside them
• no rehashing of the same 5 different assets for any random structures you may encounter on the planet (this one puts even Oblivion's dungeons to shame)
• Newtonian space flight
• actual flight in a star system, from astral body to astral body, with orbits, gravity wells, etc.
• an real open world (planets) and open universe (star system), not a bunch of instances
• an actual and meaningful exploration, tied to all of the above

 

 

 

 

Have you been looking at my Christmas wish list? Facial animation overhaul. 

Edited November 1, 2023 by Kraven12

[RohZima]

18 hours ago, Miauzi said:

Zur Ergänzung:

 

Biome transitions do NOT take place at the map border but rather within the selected landing zone (if one exists).

Otherwise there would be no coastal strip at the transition from land to sea - which one could "travel" for the necessary scans of "fish".

(The "sea" biome is currently a pure 2D area - the animals move underneath in an "empty space" - in some animal species I could see a clear up and down movement in my scans - similar to whales)

But the biome transitions on land are also designed this way... see video

But if it weren't for the "informal link" between neighboring landing zones, these crossings would hardly be in the correct places.

And yes - there are transitions not only from 2 but also from 3 (or even 4) biomes - even if the change, for example, between ice desert and savannah seems very "sudden".

Unlike the coastal region - which even has its own suffix ("coast") in the planetary overview map... the transitions between two land biomes are very difficult to find... see the comments.

 

Thanks, I see that there is a link between the planet map and the biome... But not between one biome and another, which is assumed... And it does make sense that if the tile is dictated by the starmap, then the tiles must be connected in theory.

 

I think you have proved your point as much as it's possible to do.

 

So you could link 5 tiles together, one next to another, contiguously... 

 

Which, if you have ground vehicles or the ability or at least the illusion of flying your ship in planet atmosphere, that could be progress...

 

 

Edited November 2, 2023 by RohZima

[Miauzi]

Vor 11 Stunden sagte RohZima:

 

Danke, ich sehe, dass es einen Zusammenhang zwischen der Planetenkarte und dem Biom gibt ... Aber nicht zwischen einem Biom und einem anderen, was angenommen wird ... Und es macht durchaus Sinn, dass, wenn die Kachel von der Sternenkarte diktiert wird, dann die Fliesen müssen theoretisch verbunden werden.

 

Ich denke, Sie haben Ihren Standpunkt bestmöglich bewiesen.

 

Sie könnten also 5 Kacheln direkt nebeneinander miteinander verbinden ... 

 

Wenn Sie über Bodenfahrzeuge oder die Fähigkeit oder zumindest die Illusion verfügen, Ihr Schiff in der Planetenatmosphäre zu fliegen, könnte das ein Fortschritt sein ...

 

 

 

The 5 tile assumption assumes - that the landing zone is a rectangle (or simply a "square") and ultimately builds up something like a checkerboard pattern.

If you think further in this direction - there is a problem that has not yet been taken into account -> the corner zones of the square.

To clarify, I'll use the "classic chessboard" - the landing zone is a "light" field - so it is bordered by a total of 4 "dark" fields on the long sides of the square. In each corner of the "light" area I have visual contact with a total of 4 other "light" areas - which are connected to the "light" base area via the corner points.

If you set up a model like this - a total of EIGHT areas have to be generated next to the actual landing zone.

You originally talked about a "hexagon" as a landing zone... well then you have 6 equally adjacent areas - but no "corner problem" like with a square.

What the manufacturer of the game ultimately chose... is currently not easy to find out.

[RohZima]

On 11/3/2023 at 12:37 AM, Miauzi said:

 

The 5 tile assumption assumes - that the landing zone is a rectangle (or simply a "square") and ultimately builds up something like a checkerboard pattern.

If you think further in this direction - there is a problem that has not yet been taken into account -> the corner zones of the square.

To clarify, I'll use the "classic chessboard" - the landing zone is a "light" field - so it is bordered by a total of 4 "dark" fields on the long sides of the square. In each corner of the "light" area I have visual contact with a total of 4 other "light" areas - which are connected to the "light" base area via the corner points.

If you set up a model like this - a total of EIGHT areas have to be generated next to the actual landing zone.

You originally talked about a "hexagon" as a landing zone... well then you have 6 equally adjacent areas - but no "corner problem" like with a square.

What the manufacturer of the game ultimately chose... is currently not easy to find out.

 

Yeah that's why I wanted the hexagon. Then you could select the hexagon from the planet map.

 

But I actually ran all the way to the edge and you only get two options - return to your ship or pick another pixel on the planet map. So we still can't even have two tiles next to each other to confirm that the terrain is actually connected. Not that it matters because there is no way you could have a save game with whole planets or even a string of tiles going around a planet without crashing the game or being unloadable. That would be like 100 skyrims.

[RohZima]

We already have a mod that I love and recommend - fixes one of the major problems. The five npcs being spread thousands of times across different planets.

 

https://www.nexusmods.com/starfield/mods/6218?tab=description