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Hogwarts Legacy - Sirona English voice bugfix


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20 hours ago, davisev5225 said:

alphabet-soup community

 

We have plenty LGBTQ+ members and they don't need any of this.  I only have to scroll up a couple of posts above yours to see one we hid earlier that said trans people are 'mentally ill'. Not exactly helping the argument that Nexus was wrong to get rid of it, imo.

 

If a mod is applauded or defended using that type of argument, it's tainted as having the same intention behind it, which is how the pride flag thing happened, and now this looks like it's going the same way. I'm all for mods providing choice. But if a mod upload ends up as something for people to rally around with discriminatory comments, we can perfectly live without it too.

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1 hour ago, DoctaSax said:

 

We have plenty LGBTQ+ members and they don't need any of this.  I only have to scroll up a couple of posts above yours to see one we hid earlier that said trans people are 'mentally ill'. Not exactly helping the argument that Nexus was wrong to get rid of it, imo.

 

If a mod is applauded or defended using that type of argument, it's tainted as having the same intention behind it, which is how the pride flag thing happened, and now this looks like it's going the same way. I'm all for mods providing choice. But if a mod upload ends up as something for people to rally around with discriminatory comments, we can perfectly live without it too.

 

With the acronym CONSTANTLY changing, I lack any other way to accurately describe it.  Leaving out letters is considered exclusionary, getting them out of order is considered reductive, adding letters that aren't part of it (or any other mistakes) is considered dismissive... there's literally no "winning" here except to keep constantly vigilant to the ever-changing landscape, which I simply do not have the time or energy to do, nor do I really have any interest in it to be honest.

 

You're reading hostility where there's only exasperation.  I simply want all of this controversy to NOT be constantly shoved in my face everywhere I turn.

Edited by davisev5225
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On 2/11/2023 at 7:39 PM, prozacstylings said:

 

It IS a bug. It's perfectly valid to view it as a bug and want to fix it. You typing some text into loverslab dot com doesn't change that.

 

The game has support for 13 languages. In two of those 13 languages, the game is bugged and the feminine character is voiced by a male voice. 

 

If the developers wanted the male voice to be part of the story, it would have been easy to voice it with a male in the other 11 languages too. They didn't. Because either it's a bug, or the beliefs that led to you and the English/German teams doing it on purpose are unpopular. 

It is not valid to view it as a bug. A bug is faulty code, something happening in the game that isn't intentional. Sirona's voice sounding as it does was clearly intentional, therefore, by definition, not a bug.

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12 minutes ago, BlueFalcon said:

It is not valid to view it as a bug. A bug is faulty code, something happening in the game that isn't intentional. Sirona's voice sounding as it does was clearly intentional, therefore, by definition, not a bug.

In my world of programming it is clear that a "bug" is a personal opinion to a un-expected experience (from the point of view of the reporter) with said program. 

So "bug" is broadly used, and it is the author/programmer to argue if its a feature or a bug. So an counter-opinion about the bug from others, aren't valid to prove feature vs bug. You can disagree, but you can't claim that your opinion is the right one.

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On 2/12/2023 at 7:44 PM, nn1977533 said:

The mod itself is actually trans friendly, and just allows the magical trans woman to have a voice that better aligns with her gender. The problematic bit comes from calling it "bug fix".

 

I wonder if they would call the mod something like

 

"Sirona full gender transition mod"

 

and describe it as,

 

"This mod allows Sirona to use magic to change her voice that better aligns with her gender identity. This mod fully supports trans people, and their right to express themselves according to their gender identity. Especially in a fantasy world where this kind of transition would be easier due to magic.".

 

I think, that would phrase the mod in a positive light. Although it might already be too late, because if the original intention of the mod was transphobic, the mods might still not allow the mod anymore, even if it is clear it only supports trans people.


If this is the same mod then I think it's even better. She still sounds like a transfem but with a trained voice.
 

 

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22 minutes ago, mancuskaj said:

When is Hogwarts Legacy getting its own forum category?

 

It probably won't.  Couple issues with that:

  1. It probably won't hit critical mass for mod creation here.
  2. Arguably the primary reason people come here is for adult mods, and Hogwarts Legacy ostensibly has underage characters (high school age students, and occasionally younger).
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16 hours ago, DoctaSax said:

 

We have plenty LGBTQ+ members and they don't need any of this.  I only have to scroll up a couple of posts above yours to see one we hid earlier that said trans people are 'mentally ill'. Not exactly helping the argument that Nexus was wrong to get rid of it, imo.

 

If a mod is applauded or defended using that type of argument, it's tainted as having the same intention behind it, which is how the pride flag thing happened, and now this looks like it's going the same way. I'm all for mods providing choice. But if a mod upload ends up as something for people to rally around with discriminatory comments, we can perfectly live without it too.

While I understand your frustration with people that may not have a favorable position in terms of the subject, I feel the point of modding is that mods can satisfy many people's games for so a vast amount of personal reasons. Just because a loud vocal majority tend to flock towards a censored mod, doesn't mean it's a mod that shouldn't be shared. Streisand effect comes into play whenever mods are censored. I doubt there would be much negativity around the consumption of this mod if it wasn't censored. I feel like this mod could be used by pro LGBT and anti LGBT people alike. I'm not trans, but I've seen a lot of trans people be self conscious and about their voice sounding deep, and maybe the mod could serve as a way to help not remind them of something they're self conscious of. So if this mod is used by anti trans people, I'm sure there's still trans people that would want to use this mod. Making the character's voice higher pitch doesn't make her non trans. There's sex mods on here that involve non consensual tones, which I have nothing against, but I feel like if we want to play morality police, and remove everything that's tainted, it'd be kinda hypocritical to remove anti lgbt but not remove rape mods. Either way, I find it a lose lose situation if censorship begins to be the next choice of action. I myself, don't even own the game, but feel very saddened at the completely reckless and damaging actions by the moderators at Nexusmods. The issue is, they receive so much money they no longer have to cater towards every audience. So if a few people leave over a mod being removed, they won't care. The issue is long term, this will effect how people choose to mod games. Intentions don't seem to matter when it comes to moderation over at nexus mods. It's always an assumption of the worst possible motives behind a mod. The beauty of modding is taking existing material (the game) and shaping it to however you want it to be (Via modding it yourself or using existing mods). Whenever actions like these, where a clear lack of respect for choice happens to come about, for a lot of modders it will start to become a voice in their head. Telling them to have to worry the worst possible perceptions your mod can be received. I think the idea of modders coming to share their hard work for free is something nexus takes for granted now. Of course, nexus is free to do this, as it's their website. But that's why I'm making these posts now, because it's such a disservice to the modding community to new mods for a newer title and start deleting content that shouldn't be deleted in my opinion. Modding communities are a lot like human bodies, you can amputate a finger, and it'll manage to heal, but you're left without a finger now. The human controlling that body will try not to have another part of their body amputated (thus causing fear of moderation via voice in their head). A lot of games have an explosion of mods at the release date, unlike Skyrim, their modding scene seems to bleed out and trickle content out at a slow pace. It's always destined to happen, but censorship can always increase the pace at which modders lose interest in a game. I kinda got a little artistic and I just realized I'm rambling using imagery that probably doesn't even make sense. Sorry about that. I just am very passionate about the admiration for people to make mods and share them for free. I also appreciate the many websites such as these that offer safe havens for mods that don't meet the metaexistential criteria that grows ever more on Nexus Mods.

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Vor 1 Stunde sagte davisev5225:

 

Das wird es wahrscheinlich nicht. Paar Probleme damit:

  1. Es wird hier wahrscheinlich nicht die kritische Masse für die Mod-Erstellung erreichen.
  2. Der Hauptgrund, warum Leute hierher kommen, sind wohl Mods für Erwachsene, und Hogwarts Legacy hat angeblich minderjährige Charaktere (Schüler im Highschool-Alter und gelegentlich jünger).

 

You can delete the word "allegedly" entirely...


...this IS a school for CHILDREN and YOUNG PEOPLE - so the students are definitely underage.


Slowly it's getting absolutely pathetic - how one compulsively tries to construct something "adult" out of a children's book series and the associated school - so that the desired nude mods appear "compliant with the law".


sorry - it's a mistake on your part...


..and on the subject of "trans people":
Most would not even recognize them if they stand in front of you and talk to you...


..but you would assume that every "normal" born woman with a deep voice is a "man" and not a "woman".


absolutely pathetic

?

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6 minutes ago, Miauzi said:

 

You can delete the word "allegedly" entirely...


...this IS a school for CHILDREN and YOUNG PEOPLE - so the students are definitely underage.


Slowly it's getting absolutely pathetic - how one compulsively tries to construct something "adult" out of a children's book series and the associated school - so that the desired nude mods appear "compliant with the law".


sorry - it's a mistake on your part...

 

Whatever you used to translate from English to German did you a disservice, so please don't attack me for YOUR translation error.

 

Ostensibly (adverb): "to all outward appearances"

 

I leave the benefit of the doubt for 7th year Hogwarts students, since they can technically be adults, but the player character is clearly a 5th year student (i.e. underage) and interacts with students of varying ages.  I was arguing that adult mods DO NOT belong in this game, thank you very much.

 

---

 

As for your rant about recognizing trans people by outward presentation, all I have to say is you clearly have a grudge and/or agenda, and this discussion thread is not the place for it.

Edited by davisev5225
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16 hours ago, davisev5225 said:

With the acronym CONSTANTLY changing, I lack any other way to accurately describe it.  Leaving out letters is considered exclusionary, getting them out of order is considered reductive, adding letters that aren't part of it (or any other mistakes) is considered dismissive... there's literally no "winning" here except to keep constantly vigilant to the ever-changing landscape, which I simply do not have the time or energy to do, nor do I really have any interest in it to be honest.

 

You're reading hostility where there's only exasperation.  I simply want all of this controversy to NOT be constantly shoved in my face everywhere I turn.

You could have easily just used whichever you remember. If it bothered someone they'd tell you. Instead you chose to be preemptively disparaging against an entire group because of a percieved future slight by a small subset of them.

The slight being... being told you've used the wrong word? It's ok to be wrong on the internet. That's basically my default tbh. And easy to do so without making yourself look like a jerk. You're being really weird about this.

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10 minutes ago, eliasmann said:

You could have easily just used whichever you remember. If it bothered someone they'd tell you. Instead you chose to be preemptively disparaging against an entire group because of a percieved future slight by a small subset of them.

The slight being... being told you've used the wrong word? It's ok to be wrong on the internet. That's basically my default tbh. And easy to do so without making yourself look like a jerk. You're being really weird about this.

 

I've personal dealt with the screeching "must be offended at everything" members of that community enough that, as I said, I'm not interested in trying to keep up anymore.  I realize the vocal (and viciously rude) minority is not representative of that community, but nonetheless they are the de-facto ambassadors and they've alienated my interest in their plight.

 

So yes, I'm not going to wait for someone to decide they're offended (again) and try to preach to me.  I'll just use a personal catch-all and be done with it.  Call that weird if you want, but you haven't experienced what I have, and I'll not go into any more detail because, once again, this thread is not the place.

Edited by davisev5225
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1 hour ago, Drogu said:

While I understand your frustration with people that may not have a favorable position in terms of the subject, I feel the point of modding is that mods can satisfy many people's games for so a vast amount of personal reasons. Just because a loud vocal majority tend to flock towards a censored mod, doesn't mean it's a mod that shouldn't be shared. Streisand effect comes into play whenever mods are censored. I doubt there would be much negativity around the consumption of this mod if it wasn't censored. I feel like this mod could be used by pro LGBT and anti LGBT people alike. I'm not trans, but I've seen a lot of trans people be self conscious and about their voice sounding deep, and maybe the mod could serve as a way to help not remind them of something they're self conscious of. So if this mod is used by anti trans people, I'm sure there's still trans people that would want to use this mod. Making the character's voice higher pitch doesn't make her non trans. There's sex mods on here that involve non consensual tones, which I have nothing against, but I feel like if we want to play morality police, and remove everything that's tainted, it'd be kinda hypocritical to remove anti lgbt but not remove rape mods. Either way, I find it a lose lose situation if censorship begins to be the next choice of action. I myself, don't even own the game, but feel very saddened at the completely reckless and damaging actions by the moderators at Nexusmods. The issue is, they receive so much money they no longer have to cater towards every audience. So if a few people leave over a mod being removed, they won't care. The issue is long term, this will effect how people choose to mod games. Intentions don't seem to matter when it comes to moderation over at nexus mods. It's always an assumption of the worst possible motives behind a mod. The beauty of modding is taking existing material (the game) and shaping it to however you want it to be (Via modding it yourself or using existing mods). Whenever actions like these, where a clear lack of respect for choice happens to come about, for a lot of modders it will start to become a voice in their head. Telling them to have to worry the worst possible perceptions your mod can be received. I think the idea of modders coming to share their hard work for free is something nexus takes for granted now. Of course, nexus is free to do this, as it's their website. But that's why I'm making these posts now, because it's such a disservice to the modding community to new mods for a newer title and start deleting content that shouldn't be deleted in my opinion. Modding communities are a lot like human bodies, you can amputate a finger, and it'll manage to heal, but you're left without a finger now. The human controlling that body will try not to have another part of their body amputated (thus causing fear of moderation via voice in their head). A lot of games have an explosion of mods at the release date, unlike Skyrim, their modding scene seems to bleed out and trickle content out at a slow pace. It's always destined to happen, but censorship can always increase the pace at which modders lose interest in a game. I kinda got a little artistic and I just realized I'm rambling using imagery that probably doesn't even make sense. Sorry about that. I just am very passionate about the admiration for people to make mods and share them for free. I also appreciate the many websites such as these that offer safe havens for mods that don't meet the metaexistential criteria that grows ever more on Nexus Mods.

 

While I support the goal and, love the concept of an unbiased modding site, I can't see a truly neutral platform being possible without the inherent censorship of some form of moderation. The frustrations you mentioned can never be truly prevented, even when moderation isn't heavy-handed.

Certain ideas are inherently non-neutral or even actively hostile to the ability of certain people to exist peacefully. Hosting them is inherently a non-neutral action, as the website is then a vehicle by which these ideas spread (facilitating the hostility of these concepts). This can be interpreted as indifference to, or tacit support of, these ideas. In order for the content on a site to be neutral, hostile ideas cannot be allowed to spread. From my understanding it might be enough to heavily water them down, or to mandate they are only  distributed when they contain adequate context in the file itself by which they can be studied without being infected or infecting others. but I could be wrong.

 

Modding sites have a somewhat social aspect, however minor that may be, due to the social-media-ish features that have been added to them. Users can see the opinions of others and this can effect, even subconsciously, their perceptions of how acceptable certain ideas are. Whether just to specific groups (identified or misidentified by their comments), to the general public, or even to themselves.

I believe these social media aspects are the biggest contributor to the need for moderation, due to their influence on user. Even just public stats (ie like%, number of downloads) can colour public perception in some manner (those stats can be (rightly or wrongly) interpreted "is this idea accepted?" and "is it a common belief?").

 

Deleting this mod was possibly a knee-jerk overreaction but I wasn't there so idek and this has been used by some (even here) to attempt to rationalise their persecution complex. In instances where the conversations are the issue, and not the actual mod, locking/deleting the comments (even temporarily) can be a more proportional response (though not always). Jerks are at their most vitriolic in groups, where they are emboldened by each other's words. If they don't all turn up at once, they are more likely to be reserved when they can "read the room" and see their comments aren't welcome.

 

--

Even blanket comment-locking is not always suitable, due to the implications that can be drawn from the other social features (or from hosting). In certain cases, allowing a mod to exist without any comments may unintentionally present a concept explored within that mod as acceptable even if it is handled in a mature and reasonable manner. 

 

eg Democracy 4 (a government political simulator game) has a mod on the steam workshop: "ban women from working". Which it naturally attracts tasteless comments, though most are joking. Social-media-wise, the mod has an unexpectedly high number of users, and a 3* rating.

 

If that mod had its comments deleted and locked, it would completely change the perception of the mod in the eyes of new users, since the only metrics they have to guage public opinion on the mod are: highly downloaded ("popular") and (55(+-10))% positive ("not great not terrible"). Possibly making it seem like the author, users or even the public at large are "undecided about, or perhaps some actually endorse" the idea.

(Using it brings a significantly negative net effect. It primarily reduces happiness and vehicle usage, which also brings about secondary negative effects on things like productivity. They make sense but are obviously oversimplified and not heavily researched or studied by the author because it's a video game).

 

The mod itself (despite being oversimplified), and mods in the same vein do deserve to exist. These allow users to explore the impact certain policies might have on a society (though obviously these are not truly realistic and the actual effects are entirely at the whims and biases of their creators, which has the potential for abuse) in a relatively (see previous point) safe manner... And for people to do challenge runs where they try to not be sacked, bankrupted or assassainated while enacting the policies of oppressive regimes.

 

i've probably butched all that cuase I'm falling asleep but thanks for coming to my TED talk anyway lmao

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2 hours ago, eliasmann said:

Certain ideas are inherently non-neutral or even actively hostile to the ability of certain people to exist peacefully.

 

This kills any credibility your argument might have had.  A minor modification to a video game that "features" (can you really call a minor character "featured"?) a fictitious person can hardly be construed as hostile to the actual, real-world existence of real people.  That's an argument in search of a problem that doesn't exist.

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2 hours ago, eliasmann said:

Hosting them is inherently a non-neutral action

And not hosting them is a neutral action? In my point of view, pure neutralism is to enforce only the laws of the country the site is hosted in. Therefore, things that can be perceived as anti trans, and pro trans can both exist and benefit whoever wants to shape their game into whatever amalgamation they see fit. I understand it's taboo to allow conflicting ideas to mainstream, but I feel it's the most true neutral. The modding community is quite diverse, and to worry about being non-neutral will pose a threat to your neutrality all together. Everyone has a back story. I also believe in giving users tools to help shape the website to their liking. For example, blocking users, tags and words from appearing would make it more inclusive to oneself. Thus allowing people to shape the website to their one sided experience. Obviously the toxic people are the loudest, but there's a silent majority that just download content and do not say anything. I know I'm going to probably make a lot of people mad with my way of thinking. I just think that a mod hosting site that acts the equivalent to a U.S. city square would be the most appealing. I would hate for me to be censored for my views, so I don't like putting it onto others. That being said, I'm sure if you wanted advertisers on your website and sponsors you'd need to be professional. My idea of the ideal website is fairy tale because it's not profitable in my opinion. I just don't feel like I'm the type of person to say who can or cannot say things and who can or cannot exist. 

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The age concerns I understand.

 

That aside, I'd point out that other games have mods that make male NPCs female (and presumably vice versa).

 

Examples: 

https://www.nexusmods.com/mountandblade2bannerlord/mods/4306

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/47303/

 

Even if the mod is "cis-washing", is it really so different from those?

 

(I have not played the base game. It's just a thought about games in general.)

Edited by SeranaUser
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On 2/12/2023 at 7:13 PM, zukoiu said:

We need a new Nexus, that's all. Somewhere without bias. Everyone can post everything and call it a day. Simple as that.

If only I knew how, I would've created one quite a long time ago. They've gone political years ago with mods and with moderators removing them for "copyright infringement" even when it isn't and said mod simply doesn't fit their personal tastes or preferences. This mod and anything similar is no exception to that of course. The days of them believing one should be able to mod and play "Their" game how they want are long gone unfortunately.

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7 hours ago, eliasmann said:

Certain ideas are inherently non-neutral or even actively hostile to the ability of certain people to exist peacefully

Everything that is actively hostile is already illegal from harrassment to terroristic threatening to a call to arms of violent actions or the doxxing of other people, in varying degrees of course.. Simple views or beliefs that others have are never inherently hostile no matter how non-neutral they may be. Everyone can and should be allowed to offend others by having opposing viewpoints, but If one having an opposing viewpoint is all it takes to offend others, that's a personal problem for those who are offended that frivilously. An individual opinion in no way affects anyone's ability to exist peacefully, yet their offended nature may lead them to a self fulfilling prophecy of inhibiting their own ability to exist peacefully.

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In my opinion. You can upload whatever, but if you purposely do it with the idea and intention of taunting others outside of the game. You're doing something wrong...

It should be noted, that nexus did remove a mod as well in the opposing way, which changed paintings to say 'kill all terfs'. It's just not productive for anyone. I do think nexus censors too much, but this is one of those occasions where the intention is just to bully back and forth, and it TRULY goes both ways regardless of anyone opinion. Yes, I do not think that should belong in any place. Just upload your mod. Don't make it into a thing where hate is the focus.

Otherwise, the only thing that really needs to be censored are comments that are just extremely hateful.  Hateful comments should not be the fault of the mod-maker, unless they purposely try to promote such a reaction. Obviously, some would say hate is in the eyes of the beholder, but as someone said earlier, calling a group 'mentally ill', is not really something that can be misunderstood. That's just unnecessary. Keep such stuff to yourself or elsewhere. We cant agree on everything, but we can be mature to one another, and phrase things better.

Also just to note. This isn't one of the mods I see as taunting. Its just a voice change. I am just commenting it here cuz of this already weird debate here lol.

We are here for games. Lets enjoy it that way first and foremost.

Edited by Tayte
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that's what I get for posting at 2AM he says posting at 3am

21 hours ago, Drogu said:

And not hosting them is a neutral action? In my point of view, pure neutralism is to enforce only the laws of the country the site is hosted in. Therefore, things that can be perceived as anti trans, and pro trans can both exist and benefit whoever wants to shape their game into whatever amalgamation they see fit. I understand it's taboo to allow conflicting ideas to mainstream, but I feel it's the most true neutral. The modding community is quite diverse, and to worry about being non-neutral will pose a threat to your neutrality all together. Everyone has a back story. I also believe in giving users tools to help shape the website to their liking. For example, blocking users, tags and words from appearing would make it more inclusive to oneself. Thus allowing people to shape the website to their one sided experience. Obviously the toxic people are the loudest, but there's a silent majority that just download content and do not say anything. I know I'm going to probably make a lot of people mad with my way of thinking. I just think that a mod hosting site that acts the equivalent to a U.S. city square would be the most appealing. I would hate for me to be censored for my views, so I don't like putting it onto others. That being said, I'm sure if you wanted advertisers on your website and sponsors you'd need to be professional. My idea of the ideal website is fairy tale because it's not profitable in my opinion. I just don't feel like I'm the type of person to say who can or cannot say things and who can or cannot exist. 

Sorry for being unclear, I agree with you. The point I was failing attempting to make was that completely a completely unrestricted environment ie "freedom of speech absolutism" is not actually neutral as it first seems. Unfortunately, ideas are not all unharmful (paradox of tolerance) and ideas are not all equally valid (false balance). But neither really can a normal site, since (to varying degrees) rules inherently limit the conduct of users and which ideas they are permitted to spread. Fear of having a mod removed forces them, as you said in your previous comment, to "worry [about] the worst possible perceptions" when uploading/commenting anything. I can't claim to have any good solution.

 

When basing the rules around the laws of the hosting country, another thing to be careful of is how presenting the norms and rules of one country as [neutral/default/normal] will impact the ability of the users in other contries to conduct themselves and the extent to which they can use the site fully and legally.

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On 2/16/2023 at 1:36 AM, eliasmann said:

Certain ideas are inherently non-neutral or even actively hostile to the ability of certain people to exist peacefully.

23 hours ago, davisev5225 said:

This kills any credibility your argument might have had.  A minor modification to a video game that "features" (can you really call a minor character "featured"?) a fictitious person can hardly be construed as hostile to the actual, real-world existence of real people.  That's an argument in search of a problem that doesn't exist.

I was referring to facist/supremecist ideas. Which oppose egalitarianism and democratic ideals to such an extent that their goals are not just to harass but to strip the rights of others. I can see how you would draw some parallels between their SOP and the SOP of "Anti-[something]" groups (how they act online, disruption etc). Explaining in detail would derail this topic, an interesting discussion for another site with a lot more popcorn perhaps?

 

I wasn't talking about this mod at all, and your premise despite its ridiculously narrow scope is disingenuous. You can't truly believe that are no situations a video game that can be construed as threatening to real persons via a small modification of that kind. Though as crazykilla pointed out the vast majority of such mods would be either illegal or already banned by reasonable site rules.

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For anyone wondering this mod only slightly alters the voice pitch of the character to be a tiny bit higher.  It still sound like the original voice but slightly pitched up so it presents more like a realistic trans female voice.  It's not a cis female voice. 

Obviously this mod is not for everyone, but we should be respectful of the people that do want it. 

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