CTD when attempting to fast travel via carriage.

[traison]

51 minutes ago, daniel0035 said:

why on a new save, the crash does not occur?

 

It could be something simple like an npc spawning in when your character is level 10 or above, and this npc has a problematic AI package.

 

51 minutes ago, daniel0035 said:

why crashes only happen during carriage travel and not with normal fast travel?

 

I would assume these use the same code as they seem functionally identical.

 

48 minutes ago, daniel0035 said:

Do you need other informations?

 

The issue with crashes that occur inside SkyrimSE.exe is that its protected by anti-tamper and DRM. I can't get a debugger in there without bypassing it. I've gotten close a couple of times but ran into issues with MO2. The amount of changes I'd have to do to my setup to potentially do it successfully has never really been worth it. I'd probably need a virtual machine with iommu and 2 graphics cards, then I could play around with it freely without risking everything else.

 

Edit: To clarify the debugger access thing. I can do snapshots like earlier in this thread but the issue with those is that RIP is somewhere else thus the entire context of the code is missing. I don't know what state the cpu is in, whats in the stack or anything else for that matter. Only get the raw assembly instructions. It's a bit like looking at obfuscated code with bad eyesight.

Edited July 15, 2023 by traison

[daniel0035]

I understand... If not, do you have any advice? What would you do in my place? Redo a "clean" modlist? (Otherwise I can follow a possible procedure to flush out the culprit lol)

Edited July 15, 2023 by daniel0035

[traison]

I would be suspicious of mods that...

1. Contain a dll. Especially ones that claim to improve or otherwise alter AI or pathing.
2. Alter the navmesh anywhere in the Tamriel worldspace.
3. Add or otherwise alter actors and/or their packages.
4. Add or move actors.

Edited July 15, 2023 by traison

[daniel0035]

Thank you for your advice ! Based on my current modlist and my dll list, are there any potential suspects in your opinion?

[traison]

26 minutes ago, daniel0035 said:

Thank you for your advice ! Based on my current modlist and my dll list, are there any potential suspects in your opinion?

 

There's no point asking a human to go through your mod list to point out issues with records. That basically translates to "please analyze these mods and the millions of records they contain for potential conflicts". xEdit is the only one that will answer that question for you.

 

As for the loaded modules list, yeah you got lots of things that I would disable:

Spoiler

ScrambledBugs.dll - Does this contain related changes that may cause issues?
ShadowBoost.dll - Not needed when debugging this.
TrueDirectionalMovement.dll - Not needed when debugging this.
SurvivalControlPanel.dll - Not needed when debugging this.
SSEDisplayTweaks.dll - Awesome features, problematic if implemented wrong. Dangerous mod.
SoundRecordDistributor.dll - Not needed when debugging this.
SexLabUtil.dll - Not needed when debugging this.
RecursionFPSFix.dll - Looks dangerous based on name.
po3_Tweaks.dll
po3_SpellPerkItemDistributor.dll
po3_PapyrusExtender.dll
po3_KeywordItemDistributor.dll
OStim.dll - Not needed when debugging this.
po3_SeasonsOfSkyrim.dll
po3_BaseObjectSwapper.dll
po3_LockVariations.dll
OBody.dll - Not needed when debugging this.
MuJointFix.dll - Not needed when debugging this.
ReadingIsGood.dll - Not needed when debugging this.
gotobed.dll - Not needed when debugging this.
DynamicArmorVariants.dll - Not needed when debugging this.
FaceGenFixes.dll - Not needed when debugging this.
ENBHelperSE.dll - Not needed when debugging this.
cbp.dll - Not needed when debugging this.
DynamicAnimationReplacer.dll - Not needed when debugging this.
BugFixesSSE.dll - Does this contain related changes that may cause issues?
EngineFixes.dll - Does this contain related changes that may cause issues?
VampireFeedProxy.dll - Not needed when debugging this.
StormLightning.dll - Not needed when debugging this.
SSEFpsStabilizer.dll - Looks dangerous based on name.
BetterJumpingSE.dll - Not needed when debugging this.
AnimationQueueFix.dll - ???
ActorLimitFix.dll - ???
SimplyKnock.dll - Not needed when debugging this.
PriorityMod.dll - Sounds dangerous. Priority of what?
MagExtender.dll - ???
HonedMetal.dll - Not needed when debugging this.
DP_Extender.dll - ???
EVLaS.dll - ???
ControlLib.dll - ???
SMP-NPC crash fix.dll - ???
NSI.dll - ???

 

po3 may make awesome mods, but there also tends to be a few ctd causing issues in each of them. They're getting fixed though so props to the author, but still, not something you want to have running when trying to debug a ctd with no obvious answer.

 

You got 3 bug fix plugins at least, are you sure none of these are overlapping?

 

Lots of mods you really don't need while debugging this problem: cbp for instance, not going to need floppy dongs when the game is crashing, right?

Edited July 15, 2023 by traison

[daniel0035]

Sorry in advance if I misunderstood (English is not my mother tongue) but are you suggesting that I disable all these plugins? Or to completely uninstall all mods that are related to these plugins?

[traison]

That's going to depend on whether the dll can be disabled (ie. moved somewhere else temporarily) or if other things depend on it being there. po3_PapyrusExtender.dll for instance probably can't be removed without scripts breaking all over the place.

 

I would start with the ones that can be easily disabled: OStim, Obody, cbp, ENBHelperSE, DAR, BetterJumping, ...

 

The most dangerous mods I'd say are: RecursionFPSFix, SSEDisplayTweaks, ScrambledBugs, RecursionFPSFix, SSEFpsStabilizer.

 

Take RecursionFPSFix for instance:

Quote

Fixes FPS lag when a papyrus function gets stuck in a recursion loop

 

Sounds great right? But the question is how does it do that? Does it mess with the thread structure of the game engine? If it does, that has massive implications on almost everything that goes on on your screen while playing. Definitely not something you want to have running while trying to figure this issue out.

 

A mistake many people make when facing a more complex issue like this is they try to maintain their current setup in pristine condition. What you should instead do is create comprehensive backups of what you have. After this you can rip it apart as much as you want. It speeds up the process and lets you sleep easy at night. It doesn't matter if your character's dong turned purple, or the screen flipped upside down, as long as you can keep pursuing the same crash (at the same location, with a 90% matching callstack).

Edited July 15, 2023 by traison

[daniel0035]

I really like your way of explaining, it's educational ^^

 

Very well, I will follow your advice and delete as many .dlls as possible and I will let you know! Thanks again for your help

[daniel0035]

Hi !

As promised, I'm coming back to you to keep you posted: so I uninstalled all the dlls that seemed suspicious (except for SSEngine because without it the game was stuck without the main menu and SexLab because otherwise my backup wouldn't not loading due to corruption) but it did nothing and the ctd is still there...

 

Is it possible that the crash is not related to a .dll?

[traison]

Yeah like I said its most likely a pathing, navmesh or package issue. Its going to be a lot more work going through all that though.

 

Edit: Especially since we don't really know what we're looking for. I mean, what does a broken package look like? What about a broken navmesh? The only sample of a broken navmesh I know of was in some older version of the mod that adds sewers to all Skyrim cities. Would have to analyze that and figure out why its broken and what it looks like to get some idea of one potential navmesh issue.

Edited July 16, 2023 by traison

[daniel0035]

It's true that it's like looking for a needle in a haystack XD

 

So I try the classic technique: I isolated a moment when the ctd is systematic (100%) when I take this damn carriage. And with this save, I uninstall the mods in packs of 20 and I test them!

[daniel0035]

I have a question: is it possible that the ctd is related to a bug in my game and not to my mods? Knowing that I had already made a modlist in February 2023 and that I had ended up having the same problem when my character had reached level 40-50

[traison]

Technically that's all it is, if we can rule out interferance from any outside source*. The game processing the data it was given, but someone forgot to put a check somewhere and the code ends up trying to access a memory address its not allowed to - a bug in the game. 2 ways to deal with that, fix the data or fix the game. Well I suppose there's 3 ways, the third being "don't do what you just did" but that is not a fix.

 

* Hardware, drivers (and other kernel components), os in general, skse plugins and code injections.

Edited July 16, 2023 by traison

[daniel0035]

So my method by elimination is not sure to work if I understood correctly ^^

[traison]

I may have an idea. Since your issue seems to start after a specific player level is achieved, how about we approach this from the opposite end and instead look for leveled actor lists? Say for instance if I made an xEdit script to find all actor lists that will spawn actors after level X? That may point you right at the problem, or at least reduce the number of cadidates?

[daniel0035]

sounds good ! On the other hand I don't know at all how to do that, I imagine that it is necessary to use SSEdit but I am a neophyte with this tool.

[traison]

Here you go, download and save in the Edit Scripts directory. Edit the minimum level on line 54 before use. Try to get it as high as possible but don't overshoot it. Right click any plugin in xEdit and select Apply Script; it will run on all currently loaded plugins regardless of where you clicked. It may run for a few minutes - Skyrim.esm alone takes about 30 seconds. Once its done, there will be a file called filtered_leveled_actor_lists.txt in the Edit Scripts directory.

 

Format: File name where list was found -> List form id.

Example: Skyrim.esm -> 0010FCE5

 

Keep in mind that the problem may be in the lists from Skyrim.esm as well if for instance a mod altered an actor record (say added a faulty package) and that actor record is pointed to in one of the lists in Skyrim.esm. These are going to be difficult to find, especially if you have the minimum level set to 10; Skyrim.esm alone contains 194 leveled lists with entries at or over level 10.

 

Edit: It seems it may be possible to detect changed records in scripts as well. Finding altered actors in leveled actor lists could be automated if this script is not useful.

 

Find Leveled Actor Lists.pas

Edited July 16, 2023 by traison

[daniel0035]

Thanks again for your help but I'm really a noob in programming so this file I edit it with which program?

[traison]

Notepad

[daniel0035]

Thanks ! here is the result of the process ; 

filtered_leveled_actor_lists.txt

[traison]

That list is not going to help me any. You'll have to go through those formids and determine whether one of them may be the source of your problem. If you don't want to do that, then at least focus on the file names, for instance:

 

Skyrim Revamped - Complete Enemy Overhaul.esp -> 0001A319

 

Means "Skyrim Revamped - Complete Enemy Overhaul.esp" will spawn enemies when your player gets to level X and thus may be the problem. Either disable all mods mentioned in that text file, or use more deduction - is this mod spawning an npc close to me? Does this mod contain packages? Do any of these actors function as followers, or otherwise follow or track down the player? etc. etc. etc.

 

[daniel0035]

I see but i have already disabled all the mods in this list (except the masters)

 

Maybe it's something that appears after a quest?

Edited July 16, 2023 by daniel0035

[traison]

Then I'm pretty much out of ideas, again.

[daniel0035]

You have already been a great help to me and I thank you once again for the time you have given me

 

For my part, I will continue the uninstallation in batches of 20 (it's long, I have more than 400 mods lol) and I will end up finding something. I'll let you know!

[traison]

I noticed you're not using MO2 (missing usvfs from cash log), so here's a silly idea: I remotely control your computer, set up the debugger and its gizmos and (hopefully) tell you exactly where your problem is. I get to (hopefully) for the first time play around with a debugger in Skyrim while its running, and you may save a couple of hours/days of tearing Skyrim apart. Obviously you'd have to 100% trust me for this, and there's nothing I can do or say to prove that I'm trustworthy - just another creep on the internet like everyone else.