A Perilous Inn SE

[Guest]

10 hours ago, Melissa_69 said:

The map marker doesn't show on map so where directly it is at?

Look on page 2 of this thread. But if it isn't showing, then it means the plugin probably isn't activated. Click on the Plugins tab in Vortex and activate it, or check it in the right pane in MO2. I may have removed the marker in the new experimental version, can't remember. But that version is broken, I only uploaded it to show to other modders, how forcing the player to go to a destination can work without AI control, which is broken in VR. Download the 0.2a version, if you want to use this in your game. This one is stable, with an SS++ outcome. In 0.4 you'll be stuck at the inn forever, and after the few scenes, if they play at all, nothing else will be happening.

[Tetras66]

18 hours ago, gargamel9 said:

As soon as an SL animation plays, the player control lock, which is essential for the mechanics, either stops working entirely, or is unreliable, and I can't figure out why, nor do I know where to ask. I posted several questions about this in various places, but to no avail...

If I were to guess, it could be related to the API (e.g. maybe the SL API unlocks the player controls so they can control the animations).

 

You can identify when a SL animation ends without much trouble, so you could disable controls again after that, but would doing this suffice for your needs?

 

I have to start all my SL scenes within a scene, because otherwise it prevents the player being able to control the camera.

 

The disable player controls function has a set of flags you can set, does using those flags help at all?

 

The only other option I can think of is to use a spell that applies an effect that prevents movement.

 

My modding strategy usually involves redesigning the mod to deal with the quirks and using iffy fixes if necessary, for example: if the player has moved somewhere you don't want, when the SL scene ends, then I'd relocate them to the intended position.

[Guest]

16 hours ago, Tetras66 said:

If I were to guess, it could be related to the API (e.g. maybe the SL API unlocks the player controls so they can control the animations).

 

You can identify when a SL animation ends without much trouble, so you could disable controls again after that, but would doing this suffice for your needs?

 

I have to start all my SL scenes within a scene, because otherwise it prevents the player being able to control the camera.

 

The disable player controls function has a set of flags you can set, does using those flags help at all?

 

The only other option I can think of is to use a spell that applies an effect that prevents movement.

 

My modding strategy usually involves redesigning the mod to deal with the quirks and using iffy fixes if necessary, for example: if the player has moved somewhere you don't want, when the SL scene ends, then I'd relocate them to the intended position.

Thanks for the tips!, now the spell effect might just work. Disabling controls after the SL scene usually does nothing, but on occasion, it does work, very rarely.
I'm not sure what you are referring to with the flags, I'm still pretty green.
So, I guess, the magic effect to use would be Paralyze?

[Tetras66]

5 hours ago, gargamel9 said:

I'm not sure what you are referring to with the flags, I'm still pretty green.

Enable and disable controls are not actually a binary (e.g. enable or disable), they have a number of parameters, so you can change which parts of the controls.

 

So while normally we just write: enable(), it is actually something like: enable(1,1,1,1,1,1) with the 1 being the options you have chosen. There's details on the wiki (the UESP mirror, since the Bethesda one appears to be down).

 

In the wiki they suggest you try setdontmove or setrestrained, though I've only used these within the context of ZAZ/ZAP's API which has a pinactor function.

 

5 hours ago, gargamel9 said:

Disabling controls after the SL scene usually does nothing, but on occasion, it does work, very rarely.

Hmm, that's strange. How are you detecting the end of the scene, are you using the thread hook functionality that SL provides?

 

Is the player AI driven at any point?

 

I think there are some contexts that enable and disable doesn't work, but the notes are maybe on the Bethesda wiki that we can't access ☹️

 

5 hours ago, gargamel9 said:

So, I guess, the magic effect to use would be Paralyze?

I'm not sure I'm afraid, I've never written a custom spell effect (I've only done it for potions), but I know some modders use them quite a lot because of their great utility and no/low script overhead.

[Guest]

19 minutes ago, Tetras66 said:

Enable and disable controls are not actually a binary (e.g. enable or disable), they have a number of parameters

I see. Yes, I know and use these.
I did tried the ZAZ functions as well, but the results were still the same.
 

 

21 minutes ago, Tetras66 said:

Hmm, that's strange. How are you detecting the end of the scene, are you using the thread hook functionality that SL provides?

 

Is the player AI driven at any point?

 

I think there are some contexts that enable and disable doesn't work, but the notes are maybe on the Bethesda wiki that we can't access

I think I use the SL hooks correctly, I followed the instructions in the documentation. I do use AI driven, but only to reinforce the disabling of movement, since the control lock sometimes doesn't even work without SL interference, if AI is not on. I do not, however, run any packages on the player.
The context you are mentioning, I think, might have to do with the enabling and disabling of the lock always having to be paired, i.e. having the lock enabled twice in a row, without it being disabled again, first, allegedly can create problems. I made sure this isn't happening, but there was no change. In the current state, however, I think multiple instances of the same command are present, because I was putting them in different places, after the preceding ones had been apparently ignored. This didn't help either.
 

 

27 minutes ago, Tetras66 said:

I'm not sure I'm afraid, I've never written a custom spell effect (I've only done it for potions), but I know some modders use them quite a lot because of their great utility and no/low script overhead.

Yeah, a spell seems like a viable option. I will definitely try this out, once i get over my burnout. Again, thanks for the tip!

[Tetras66]

9 minutes ago, gargamel9 said:

I do use AI driven, but only to reinforce the disabling of movement, since the control lock sometimes doesn't even work without SL interference, if AI is not on. I do not, however, run any packages on the player.

Hmm, I have a feeling that you have to use these in the right order, like if you disable controls when the player is already AI driven then it doesn't register, or something like that. It is annoying we can't access the wiki.

 

The APIs also tend to use in-game functions (ZAZ/ZAP does this) which can easily override your code if you're not sure what they're doing. I've had a nightmare with camera controls, SL scenes and furniture.

 

I can think of two other options to control movement:

1. (If you're in the open air) Use a 'leash' that pushes the player back, when they run too far away. I think a big mod already has this functionality, but I can't remember which, if it is SL, ZAZ/ZAP or something else.

2. (If you're in a closed space) Use a trigger that once the player reaches it, it automatically locks a door (or a gate), so the player can run away, but they can't exit the area entirely.

 

In my mod, I've gone with option 2, but I'm honestly not that bothered, because I assume the player WANTS to participate in the scenes, so if they're determined to run away then I don't care 😄

 

10 minutes ago, gargamel9 said:

In the current state, however, I think multiple instances of the same command are present, because I was putting them in different places, after the preceding ones had been apparently ignored. This didn't help either.

This might not be a good idea.., but, I've started bundling pretty much everything in the quest stages. Anything else (my custom scripts, dialogues, etc) I only use to move the quest to the next stage. I've found that it makes debugging so much easier. The only exception is open/close of doors and starting SL scenes within scenes, because otherwise it gets janky.

 

18 minutes ago, gargamel9 said:

Again, thanks for the tip!

You're welcome! Darkfox127 has lots of video guides for spells and such by the way, if you don't know about the channel already.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Tetras66 said:

Hmm, I have a feeling that you have to use these in the right order, like if you disable controls when the player is already AI driven then it doesn't register, or something like that. It is annoying we can't access the wiki.

I think you need to first disable controls, then activate AI, and, in reverse, Disable AI, and then enable the controls. I think I was doing that, but I may need to check.

 

1 hour ago, Tetras66 said:

Use a trigger that once the player reaches it, it automatically locks a door

For this, I use distance conditions in AI packages, I think, and it works flawlessly, so far. But since I have an NPC enter and then leave the cell, also, I wanted to make it impossible for the player to escape. I decided I do want to cover these situation. The helplessness seems more immersive, then.

I think the SL animations are started from scenes, as the whole mod is basically a series of scenes.

 

[Tetras66]

22 hours ago, gargamel9 said:

I think you need to first disable controls, then activate AI, and, in reverse, Disable AI, and then enable the controls. I think I was doing that, but I may need to check.

Yeah, that sounds about right.

 

22 hours ago, gargamel9 said:

But since I have an NPC enter and then leave the cell, also, I wanted to make it impossible for the player to escape. I decided I do want to cover these situation. The helplessness seems more immersive, then.

Aha, I see.

 

I checked with my mod and it is definitely possible to reliably disable player controls after a SL scene, because my mod does this (via the ZAZ/ZAP API).

 

What I noticed is that the SL scene takes awhile to initiate and to terminate (longer if there's a lot of papyrus scripts running) and during that time, my character can move freely even though (in theory) they're not supposed to. If the player wanted to and the papyrus lag was big enough, they could nearly run out of the cell before the script takes effect.

 

Once it runs, the SL scene and the ZAZ/ZAP function warps the player all the way back from wherever they tried to run to.

[Guest]

On 4/22/2024 at 2:55 PM, Tetras66 said:

Once it runs, the SL scene and the ZAZ/ZAP function warps the player all the way back from wherever they tried to run to.

Lucky you, for me the ZAZ/ZAP function (the script compiled just fine), I used the ZAZ equivalent of Player.DisableControls(), not sure what it was called, anymore, and it never kicked in. But the spell sounds promising.

[CykaFish]

so how's progress? I don't mean to add pressure but I was really looking forward to what was planned in this mod

[BigOnes69]

4 hours ago, CykaFish said:

so how's progress? I don't mean to add pressure but I was really looking forward to what was planned in this mod

Over the years this guy has never finished mods. He takes over a lot of mods and at that point consider them as good as dead.

[Guest]

4 hours ago, BigOnes69 said:

Over the years this guy has never finished mods. He takes over a lot of mods and at that point consider them as good as dead.

That pretty much sums it up. At least I did make something, and spent thousands of hours in the process, and gave it to other people to play around with. I know I had fun playing with the mods, even the work with Creation Kit, but this eventually turned into a constant battle of attrition, where your enemy has infinite resources. It's not fun spending several days trying to figure a special quirk of the engine out, just to make a millimeter of progress, only to encounter another bizarre issue.
Please, go by example and show me, how it's done.

In this particular mod I gave up, because I ran into an issue, where after the first SL scene, restraints (i.e. player AI control (for just stopping movement, not walking)) would not work. I tried a number of solutions I came up with, reached out to people, scoured the Internet, and eventually I lost track of the work I have already done.
Certainly, I did not plan for it to end like this.

But still, I don't understand why you're complaining. The previous, non-experimental version works perfectly fine as a route to Simple Slavery ++.
I'll admit, I may have been overly optimistic, when I set out to make some of my mods, but isn't a creator allowed to have a vision?
Also, some of my smaller mods are complete and fully functional, and, considering the level of my skill, remarkably stable. Does the VR race menu power not start Race Menu? Does the SLSF outfit and ring not fulfill its purpose? What's wrong with the prison bar models, or my patch for PW, with nearly 40k downloads? How are those unfinished. What have you accomplished here to entitle you to put forward such claims?

[Tetras66]

26 minutes ago, gargamel9 said:

In this particular mod I gave up, because I ran into an issue, where after the first SL scene, restraints (i.e. player AI control (for just stopping movement, not walking)) would not work. I tried a number of solutions I came up with, reached out to people, scoured the Internet, and eventually I lost track of the work I have already done.
Certainly, I did not plan for it to end like this.

Probably a bit late now, but FYI: I did do some more testing awhile ago and I think the reason for the warping behaviour in my mod was due to setvehicle. It Is a pity that the spell thing didn't work out.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Tetras66 said:

Probably a bit late now

Yes, probably  I don't even remember much about a spell anymore. There is simply too much happening.

[Tetras66]

5 minutes ago, gargamel9 said:

Yes, probably  I don't even remember much about a spell anymore. There is simply too much happening.

Yeah, fair enough. I don't think our mods used the functionality comparably anyway because mine is based on a fixed point, whereas your NPCs were travelling.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Tetras66 said:

Yeah, fair enough. I don't think our mods used the functionality comparably anyway because mine is based on a fixed point, whereas your NPCs were travelling.

What mod was that? As for setvehicle, a new VRIK version has just been released which may address many of the issues VR players were having with SE mods. At least where carriages are involved, but who knows, maybe it will improve furniture as well. Can't wait to test it.

[Guest]

10 hours ago, CykaFish said:

so how's progress? I don't mean to add pressure but I was really looking forward to what was planned in this mod

Sorry that I won't answer directly, I pretty much described the situation in a reply to a reply to your post, so please refer there. Thank you for asking, and sorry I was not able to develop this to its fullest potential. I would have to make it pay, through community funding, but I just discovered I have distaste for engaging in that. I still may post from time to time, but those will probably be some patches for other peoples' mods. I'll be keeping it simple. otherwise it's just too much time.

[Tetras66]

1 minute ago, gargamel9 said:

As for setvehicle, a new VRIK version has just been released which may address many of the issues VR players were having with SE mods. At least where carriages are involved, but who knows, maybe it will improve furniture as well. Can't wait to test it.

Cool! Better watch out, you'll get bundled down the modding rabbit hole again!

 

1 minute ago, gargamel9 said:

What mod was that?

It is still in development, so I've never published anything yet. When there's at least a working questline I'll put the WIP up. There's too many bugs and missing stuff at the moment, so it can only be played through with console commands.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Tetras66 said:

Cool! Better watch out, you'll get bundled down the modding rabbit hole again!

 Well, when things go well, it's really fun... if only the engine and CK were a little less quirky, and the information easier to find.
 

3 minutes ago, Tetras66 said:

It is still in development

I wish you all the luck and determination to pull it through. No easy feat. Looking forward to the WIPs... On the lookout for new content, as always

[Tetras66]

5 minutes ago, gargamel9 said:

 Well, when things go well, it's really fun... if only the engine and CK were a little less quirky, and the information easier to find.

For sure, it is great fun when everything works out! Just working within the CK is a challenge, but then when you start plugging into third party mods where there is zero or extremely sparse API documentation, headaches abound. I'll be honest that without having other mods to refer to, I'd likely have no working quests at all.

 

6 minutes ago, gargamel9 said:

 Well, when things go well, it's really fun... if only the engine and CK were a little less quirky, and the information easier to find.
 

I wish you all the luck and determination to pull it through. No easy feat. Looking forward to the WIPs... On the lookout for new content, as always

Thank you! If you ever get in the game again, I'd love to see your mods fulfil more of their potential. In my opinion, there's a real lack of meaty content for the in-between, as most of these type of mods just forward you to SS++.

[Guest]

18 minutes ago, Tetras66 said:

In my opinion, there's a real lack of meaty content for the in-between, as most of these type of mods just forward you to SS++.

My thoughts precisely. I thought the escort mechanics shown in API would be great for this. In a test mod, I got an NPC to whip the player all the way from one location, to another, like from the inn, all the way to the Riften slave market. I was thinking of caravans transfering the player from one pen, to another. As long as you stay in the file, the caravan proceeds, but when you fall out of line, you'll be whip until you fall back in line or die. I felt it gave it a nice realistic touch. One problem, though, the NPCs often get stuck on terrain and start running around frantically. I see the same behavior with the vanilla prisoner escorts, on occasion, so it's probably something that cannot be eliminated...
The worst thing is that we'll probably never get a better game that's also this moddable ever again.

[Tetras66]

34 minutes ago, gargamel9 said:

One problem, though, the NPCs often get stuck on terrain and start running around frantically. I see the same behavior with the vanilla prisoner escorts, on occasion, so it's probably something that cannot be eliminated...

There's a mod that has a 'caravan' quest (an extension to Lola, by Coffee) and it mostly works fine (I never had it not complete a travel run), but the NPCs do sometimes run off/disappear for no apparent reason and if you use the wait function it goes a little crazy, so yeah.., that is probably not something you can fix.

 

40 minutes ago, gargamel9 said:

The worst thing is that we'll probably never get a better game that's also this moddable ever again.

If it turns out that Starfield is this moddable then I'll certainly hope that the next TES game will be, but I have zero interest in modding Starfield so I haven't been keeping track.

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, Tetras66 said:

If it turns out that Starfield is this moddable then I'll certainly hope that the next TES game will be, but I have zero interest in modding Starfield so I haven't been keeping track.

It seems moddable, but until someone creates an animation and device framework, there isn't much to be done. Reportedly, the new creation kit has its issues, too. I'm just afraid that TESVI will be destroyed by politics.

[CykaFish]

damn i hope someone adopts this, I wish there were more options to end up a slave than just being defeated

 

[Guest]

10 hours ago, CykaFish said:

damn i hope someone adopts this, I wish there were more options to end up a slave than just being defeated

 

Me, too . Had a lot of great ideas... But you can always use my first, and arguably most finished, mod, A Perilous Maze.
Just in case you don't know it, please be aware that more likely than not (unless you read spoilers in the support thread) you will end up dead, rather than enslaved, on the first few gos.