Really large load orders

[Arcane Wanderer]

I have 533 plugins including several merges and 733 mods.    Obviously, this is SSE with light plugins because LE is limited to 256 plugins (including the executable, DLCs, and the base esms).   I'm sure others have even more mods.

 

The question is how to start a new game with that.   Too many mods and some of the MCMs might not load and also you'll have to sit though a lot of new game startup stuff.

 

Another problem I needed to solve was that no matter what I tried, the MCM for Deviously Cursed Loot would not start.

 

The FAQ for Sanguine Debauchery recommends disabling almost all the LL mods except for the framework.  You then start and save a new game.   Next, you add all of your other LL mods except for SD.   Load the prior save and re-save.  Last, you add SD and a few related mods.

 

Sounds reasonable.   And, leaving the LL stuff for last means that I can test changing out non-LL mods and test personal compatibility patches without waiting on startup of all the LL mods.   But, I'm wonder how well that works with bashed patches and mods created via zEdit patchers.

 

Looking in SSEEdit, I think the answer is that it all looks good.

 

Here's the approach I took:

 

My modlist is based on Lexy's LOTD with several additions from Nexus and LL.  And some hand created compatibility patches to make the pieces play together.   I'm using ModOrganizer2.

• First I created a "main" profile in MO2 with everything I wanted.
• Second, I copied the main profile to a "lite" profile that has everything in exactly the same order, but has almost all the LL disabled.  (The LL mods that are enabled are the same ones as listed next in step 3.)
• Third, I copied that to a "very-lite" profile.  The very-lite profile has about 40 plugins enabled - mostly stuff near the top of the plugin list - Apache hair, the sound overhaul from Lexy's guide, RaceMenu, and all the UI stuff.   It also has sexlab, FNIS, Devious Devices, SOS, aroused redux, XPMSE, and physics.   Of course, Live Another Life is included.  Lastly, it also has Deviously Cursed Loot because I couldn't get the MCM to load in heavier load orders.   The only mods (in the left pane) that are enabled are those that provide the plugins just mentioned, those that provide SKSE stuff, and those that affect UI (some of which don't have plugins).
• Seems to work fine.  I start a new game in the very-lite profile and save without leaving the LAL cell.   I copy that save from the very-lite profile to the lite profile, and do a load and save, still staying in the LAL cell.  Last, I copy the save from the lite profile to the main profile and load it.

 

The SD FAQ doesn't mention bashed patches or other generated plugins.  So, the question is, how safe is this?   Will I see problems down the road?  I think the answer is "no".

 

Adding mods after new game start is OK.  What I was wondering about was would anything bad get baked into the save because of adding the Bashed patch and zEdit generate plugins so late?

 

Examining the bashed plugins and the zEdit generated plugins in SSE, I see that, as expected, they're 100% overrides.   To see this, I used a custom filter set to show only records with as conflict status of "master".

 

So, the only question left is are there any records baked into the saves that should have been overiden by the bashed patch or generated plugins?  If so, those saved records wouldn't match the records provided by the new plugins in the "main" profile.   Loading the save in Resaver,  I see that the very first save has about 10,000 change forms baked in.   The second and third saves have over double that.   The fact that the third save doesn't add many more new changes is a good sign.    Even though there are a bit over 20K change records,  I'm guessing that because of staying within the LAL cell, that none or very few of the baked-in changes would have been different if the game had been created directly from the main profile.

 

Is my analysis correct?

[osculim]

I don't think adding zedit merges after is an issue. Ive done that. I have about 500 or so mods 255 are smashpatched and in that list is a few zmerges. And then all my armors and other stuff after the smash patch including some more merges and have no issues to get things going.

[onen]

On 9/8/2020 at 11:20 AM, MikeWander said:

The question is how to start a new game with that. 

408 mods here.

I can merge only the armor esp's and get below the 255 limit.  Trying to merge follower mods gives me black face issues.

I also make a profile copy in MO2 and take out everything not needed to diagnose problems.

 

My new game startup sequence:

Edit: I first start SexLab and exit MCM.  After it finishes its init, I go into MCM SLAnimLoader, select all then register all of them.  Then save.    I never use quicksave.

I then exit the game.   Start again and load the save, other MCM's will then register.

With 100+ MCM's I only set 1 or 2 at a time, then exit MCM.  I found if i switch to another MCM and it fails to display, the save can get corrupted.  Its slow setting them all up this way but I end up with them all working.  Also I save periodically during the 1+ hours it takes me to setup all the MCM settings to my liking.

After setting up all MCM's I save one last time in the alternate start cell.

I exit and load the save one more time.  mods like Estrus Chaurus+ need a reload before its MCM gets registered.

It also doesn't hurt to wait a few min in the start cell before leaving it to make sure all MCM's have had sufficient time to register.  With this many mods script lag can slow that down.

I turn on the Defeat mod last after I leave the alternate start cell.

Once outside I Save again.

 

[Azailahab]

812 active mods with 576 plugins for SE and 500+ with 253 for LE. I use MO2 and one of the helpful tricks in merging some mods with ZMerge has been to filter the mods by those that have esp/esl/esm first, then sort the content column on the left pane that shows if a mod has Plugins (esp/esl/esm), interface, BSA, scripts (papyrus), script extender plugin, meshes etc. I found I have best results merging files with only a plugin, maybe with meshes, textures, and music etc. I avoid merging anything with a BSA or scripts (although it can be done, I just have not had too yet). Followers can be merged, but there are some extra steps to prevent the black face bug, I am lazy so I don't merge too many of them.

 

For MCM stuff, like onen mentioned I start with sexlab, SLAnimLoader, then creature framework, sexlab tools. I also save to 'external file' all my settings if the MCM has that option (I think FISSES may help if you do this, not sure if I am correct on that). That way many of the MCM menus are easier to reload in the event of a crash (some like 'follow me for sex', 'sexlab survival', or 'sexlab adventures' for example, can take a long time). Many MCM menus do not show up for several minutes. Saving and exiting often can save your save. I also disable quick save and autosave as well (which requires discipline in game play to remember to manually save often).

 

As for script lag, one cool tool is Elephant's Script Latency Tester I use this to see how much papyrus scripts are slowing my game down. From my understanding, having a lot of mods with scripts is not a big deal. However, having a lot of mods with scripts that are constantly running is a big deal. This mod makes it easy to see what the latency for running scripts is. Expect it to spike during MCM loading, MCM configuring, and cell transitions. It should run about 80-160ms for gameplay with minimal issues or lag and maintaining a 45-59fps. However if it stays steady between 250-400ms you start to see frame rates drop to mid 20's in some places and lag on mod responses to PC/NPC actions. Some mods fire off scripts every few seconds or several times a second constantly, others only when triggered. The concern are those constantly running, too many and you have lower fps, stutter, lag and sluggish or no response for mods that should trigger right away. Hate it when I have a defeat situation, then freeze for a bit, move on and continue play and suddenly snap back to an animation and playing of the rape scenario that should have triggered 10-20 seconds ago. Now take all that with the caveat that I am no expert and probably got some things wrong. I found that if I am using Deviously Cursed Loot and FrostFall I have issues with lag, same with some other mods, just takes time to find the right combination that works. (Hard to do when I want so many of the pervy mods on this site plus lots of nexus stuff).

 

I run Wyre Bash after every change with adding or subtracting an esp/esl/or esm, then I run LOOT, and again use Wrye Bash to see if any obvious conflicts are created from LOOT. So far my builds are relatively stable, but I am constantly trying to find the right balance for the game play I want. (My wife jokes that the real game I am plying is modding skyrim and not skyrim, she's probably right).

 

 

 

 

 

[TopDogCat]

I don't think I have my game engine properly patched, because my machine always crashes at about 260 plugins.  It doesn't matter how many I smash, bash, or merge together.  I figure it might just be my system.  i7-4950, 32GB ram, GTX 1060 6GB ... and slow as molasses HDD.