Fighting the Slavery/Tryout Stutter

[zippy57]

If it's a driver issue, it's confined to a specific set of drivers.

[ruddycray]

I don't think it's a driver issue. I also have this on an nvidia card. Framerate on startup is consistently about 60 then it dips down further and further until it gets to where it's running about 5 fps. When I go from one area to another, the framerate goes back up to 60 for a short time and then it dips right back down again. It seems like some script garbage is accumulating or something.

 

With pregnancy enabled, each sex act would decrease the framerate big time. After about 3 or 4 times, the game was unplayable. After disabling that one but with tryouts enabled, the game is playable for a little bit longer (like 30 minutes) but then it gets slow again over time.

 

Also, Fallout 3 does not have this issue, so I doubt it's an engine issue. Maybe I'm wrong, but they seem like the same engine to me.

[ruddycray]

Also, for me anyway, framerate goes back up to 60 when I'm talking to an NPC or in the pipboy, and GameMode scripts would be paused then if I'm not mistaken. But the video card is still rendering the same characters.

[theskid]

They are pretty much the same engine, which has issues that haven't been repaired. FO3 is just as or more unstable for me as New Vegas. The stutter remover available on the nexus repairs most of the problems but the game will still crash randomly, just takes longer.

[zippy57]

Framerate always improves when the game world freezes, as it does in dialogue and the PipBoy. Not only because GameMode scripts are stopped, but because practically everything in the game is stopped. In that mode the game isn't evaluating NPC AI packages, choosing idle animations, referencing navmeshes, playing foley sounds, checking collision data, or any of the stuff it otherwise is doing constantly.

 

Here's what we know about the problem:

• It does not occur in all cases
  
• It occurs sometimes on nVidia cards and always* on ATI cards
  
• Lowering graphics settings does not fix it
  

*I don't believe anyone with an ATI card has yet reported not having this issue

 

I'm guessing we need to stop comparing graphics cards and start comparing other things, since the graphics don't appear to be the problem. Maybe processors?

[theskid]

I have a half decent off the shelf gateway DX4850 from a few years back. Has a dual core I5 2300 2.8 GHz, 6 GB ram and running Windows Home 64 bit. It's no killer gaming beast but I can run most games without too much issue if I settle for lower resolutions and mid to high level graphics options, but the Bethesda FO games have always given me issues, and on multiple computers (generally with worse specs then this one, but it's always happened). Came stock with a basic nvidia ge420 card which I can't upgrade till my wife gets a new computer, so that's gonna be awhiles.

 

From what I understand of the FO bethesda engine(Gamebryo is the offical name maybe, not sure), as I've spent much time looking up various tech support threads, it's best to turn off autosave completely, as leaving it on will cause memory leak crashes, and the game has other memory leak issues which means it will almost ineveitably crash at some point. I'm guessing, with my very limited tech knowledge here, that the multiple scripts running with advanced mods like sexout probably add to the processing burden, combined with the fact that many folk will be running various graphical improvements like hi-res textures etc, speeds up the memory leak issues and the game implodes.

[zippy57]

I'm running an Intel Core2 Duo P8700 2.53GHz, 6GB RAM, Windows 7 64-Bit. The engine is the Gamebryo engine, and you should turn autosave off, though I believe it's usually because of corrupted saves. I've never heard that the engine had memory leaks before, though to be honest it wouldn't surprise me. The engine is very unstable and there is a tendency for the game to crash, but I've never experienced the stutter issue.

 

Combine all that with the fact that it's been reported that lowering graphics levels does nothing and the fact that I run 195+60 mods and this just gets weird.

I'm starting to think maybe I'm imagining that it works fine for me. Does anyone have this issue in a new game just wandering around Goodsprings a bit?

[theskid]

Goodsprings is usually pretty smooth for me, and i think it has to do with the amount of gameworld the game has loaded and keeps track of, as well as the number of actors and such in your current location. I know when I had populated casinos light running last time I hit vegas I got massive issues, but working girl is almost useless without that installed, so i usually try anyways. Do you run with any npc increased population mods? I've noticed big performance hits in more popuated areas,which has stopped me from trying any of the bigger mods like repopulated wasteland, the more powder gangers one etc.

 

But yeah if you search gamebryo memory leaks on google you'll get tons of lovely forum threads;)

[zippy57]

I don't run any major stuff like repopulated wasteland or casinos, but the reason I asked about Goodsprings is because my latest game save is going on 13+ hours and I haven't left Goodsprings yet (the amount of time you spend in one place with a 1:1 timescale and stuff like AWOP and Arwen's active is kind of ridiculous). I'll have to fast travel to the Strip or somewhere and see if I get the issue this time around. If I do, whatever's causing it is a recent addition, because I had SexoutLegion on my previous playthrough with no stutter.

[ruddycray]

i7 here - more than enough to handle anything this game engine should be throwing at it. Populated casinos doesn't make any difference to the slowdown for me. It happens whether it's loaded or not. It might happen faster if it's loaded, but I couldn't say for sure.

 

All those game functions getting paused when you're in dialogue makes sense to me, but that makes me think even more that it's not really the video card. Even though the game isn't doing all those extra things it also isn't unloading all the meshes and textures from the card. During dialogue especially the scene is still getting rendered. I would expect a video card problem to show up as a consistently bad frame rate after the problem started.

 

It might show up the way I see it with the frame rate going back up after you go through a loading screen, but the delay before I get back to bad frame rates is about the delay between runs of a quest script - assuming Fallout defaults to 5 seconds between quest script runs like Oblivion (my modding experience is primarily from Oblivion. I'm just assuming Fallout is basically the same).

 

It seems to me like most people who have the problem say it goes away if they disable the sex mod altogether. I haven't tried that yet. But it might be useful to see if somebody who is having the problem were to roll back to a much older version, like an early 2012 version, and see if it still happened.

[ChancellorKremlin]

Framerate always improves when the game world freezes' date=' as it does in dialogue and the PipBoy. Not only because GameMode scripts are stopped, but because practically everything in the game is stopped. In that mode the game isn't evaluating NPC AI packages, choosing idle animations, referencing navmeshes, playing foley sounds, checking collision data, or any of the stuff it otherwise is doing constantly.

 

Here's what we know about the problem:

[list']

[*]It does not occur in all cases

[*]It occurs sometimes on nVidia cards and always* on ATI cards

[*]Lowering graphics settings does not fix it

*I don't believe anyone with an ATI card has yet reported not having this issue

 

I'm guessing we need to stop comparing graphics cards and start comparing other things, since the graphics don't appear to be the problem. Maybe processors?

 

I think this is a very good line of enquiry.

 

Enough people have reported this issue for it to be something of a concern for us, and something we should investigate. I think this should be something that could maybe even be stickid (I'll look into that) together with possible solutions, like using the FNV4gb exe patch or specific d3d9.dll's which also apply to both users.

 

There is obviously Fallout Stutter remover too, though I must stress none of these ever seemed to make any difference for me. I'm now going to do a total rollback to vanilla and see if the issue persists.

 

Also, Zippy, I would recommend you give repopulated wasteland, military expansion, and NV bounties a try. Install all three, and tell me what your performance is in the Mojava Outpost, Goodsprings, NCRF and the 188 Trading Post.

 

You should feel the most performance loss in the last two.

[zippy57]

I can immediately report on NV Bounties in Goodsprings, as I'm running it right now with no apparent stutter. Will try the other two and in the other locations ASAP.

[ChancellorKremlin]

Thanks Zippy. It also is important to note that I'm running everything maxed out graphics wise, so I will try to turn them down too. But if you play on high end graphics and have all those mods installed, the NCRCF and 188 should basically slow to a crawl.

[zippy57]

I don't play on the highest settings, partly because my card can't really handle it, and partly because some of the settings cause huge performance hits without much actual visual difference. I have the two mods and am about to test them... If my game doesn't crash on startup because 197 plugins.

[jaam]

I have an AMD card and last time I played there was NO apparent stutter at all.

Granted that was in September...

[ruddycray]

I can now say that disabling Slavery and Tryouts does get rid of the problem for me. I had the game running for over an hour and it was still running smoothly by the time I quit.

 

One thing I noticed is that once the problem starts, it continues even if you save and reload a game. But if you exit the game altogether and start it up again, it runs smoothly again, even if you load the same saved game.

 

Problems that were just from running too many scripts would make their way into the saved game, wouldn't they? Could the NVSE Extender be the culprit? Is everyone using the same version of that? v11 here.

[zippy57]

Added rePopulated Wasteland and Military Expansion. No stutter. Best performance in the Mojave Outpost, then Goodsprings, then the 188. Worst performance in the NCRCF yard, but that's at least partially due to the fact that they were all trying to kill me.

 

Again, no stutter at all except for the little skips I get when the game loads a new cell.

 

I'm running NVSE Extender v11.

[ChancellorKremlin]

It's also worth mentioning the stutter isn't immediate and accumulates over time. Generally I tend to notice it after 10-15 minutes of play, and it seems to get worse faster as time progresses.

 

I would also recommend you trying to run the NCRCF without having them attack you, as I don't think the scripts will be running if they are hostile.

[zippy57]

I stood around at the 188 for a good ten minutes or so. I can't really test the NCRCF because I don't have any saves with them non-hostile and for whatever reason starting a new game requires deactivating and uninstalling every single mod I have active. It's... very time-consuming.

 

I'll have to test to see if I get the stutter through normal gameplay. Maybe it takes longer to kick in? I won't have the time to just sit down for a few hours until tomorrow.

[maelion]

Okay, so far we have similar problems.

 

My feedback : I discovered FONV in december 2012, bought the game on steam and followed the instructions to install sexout from here.

 

My first playthrough ran WITHOUT any problems until 35-40 hours, then the game began to stutter and crash randomly.

I remember having installed tryout and slavery from the beginning and the game was running smoothly.

I must have done something wrong in the last hours (since i installed mods from time to time).

I deleted the game with all saves and configs, reinstalled it and dled sexout compilation, awop, cloth collection and a few gameplay mods...well, no crash anymore but stutter came back at the first hour of playing.

It's weird to have a game wich do not stutter the first time in decembrer 2012...then become crazy two weeks later.

I don't remember having dled a driver in last december but maybe nvse ?

Anyway,

1) the game stutters after 25-30mn but can stutter sooner with npc's and lot of action (awop or prison)

2) entering smaller cells can remove stutter (i have a lot of stuttering in goodsprings after a while but it disappears as i enter the doc house), exiting and returning larger cells or wasteland and stutter is back

3) 4gb.exe, stutter remover, dx.dll, FF Mode...nothing works

4)v sync on or off does seems to have a very little impact on stuttering

5)reloading a game and stutter disappear for 5 seconds...

6) exiting the game and reloading completely solve the problem for another go.

[theskid]

I stood around at the 188 for a good ten minutes or so. I can't really test the NCRCF because I don't have any saves with them non-hostile and for whatever reason starting a new game requires deactivating and uninstalling every single mod I have active. It's... very time-consuming.

 

I'll have to test to see if I get the stutter through normal gameplay. Maybe it takes longer to kick in? I won't have the time to just sit down for a few hours until tomorrow.

 

Not sure what to tell ya zippy, maybe yer just lucky;). The way it works for me is the game will run smoothly generally for an hour to 3 hours, and then I will start to get micro stutters (move smoothly for 20 seconds, 1 second freeze then continue as normal) which gradually get worse and worse until the game finally crashes out completely. To fix it I exit out the game, and then generally do a system restart instead of manually clearing my cache and start up again. It;s usually than finbe for anoth 1-3 hours. The stutter remover increases my stability but it will still happen eventually. One thing is that I had this issue in vanilla with no mods or stutter remover or anything installed, it's just that it is worse now than it was then, and it happens faster in more populated areas like the strip.

[ChancellorKremlin]

I can confirm that just running the vanilla version of the game sans mods and plugins gives me no stutter whatsoever. I'm going to add Sexout next, then NPC's, and see if things get worse.

[ChancellorKremlin]

Well, I've narrowed the problem down to Legion. Slavery by itself doesn't seem to lead to the stutter, but being in the Fort for ten minutes (and then anywhere else after that) produced a noticeable lag. This is especially so if the player has any extra NPC mods loaded.

 

FPS was around 20, but dropped to <8 when I set the scanner to 100Mhz. Even at 1Mhz, the stutter is noticeable. Happens on both FNV4gb.exe and the normal launcher. Not making use of any stutter removers of special dll's. This was on a barebones install with only NVSE (both versions), astymma's skeleton, Sexout, slavery, tryouts, mcm, repopulated wasteland and military expansion, fellout and project reality.

 

I'm going to create a stickied thread sometime with a list of possible solutions, though I've not heard of the efficacy of any single one. It is likely something inherent in the Sexout scanner, which when it gets used by demanding plugins (like Legion) has a detrimental effect on the game. Are there any comparable vanilla scripts that would even be close to being that intensive?

 

EDIT: Also, new line of inquiry here, is anybody experiencing this stutter who has a merged patch and/or a bashed patch?

 

EDIT II: Kind of obvious, but removing the NPC adding plugins reduced the severity of this stutter significantly. It was barely noticeable in the fort after about 15 min. As in almost not there. In fact, I may even have imagined it. Seems like the fewer NPC's the better.

[theskid]

I'm running a merged patch with fnv edit. I don't run a heavy load order, currently using the recommended body replacers(BoG type3, Breeze) and a few extra armour esps, nothing major.

 

Current Load order

 

[X] FalloutNV.esm

[X] DeadMoney.esm

[X] HonestHearts.esm

[X] OldWorldBlues.esm

[X] LonesomeRoad.esm

[X] GunRunnersArsenal.esm

[X] ClassicPack.esm

[X] MercenaryPack.esm

[X] TribalPack.esm

[X] CaravanPack.esm

[X] Sexout.esm

[X] SexoutCommonResources.esm

[X] SexoutPregnancyV3.esm

[X] SexoutSlavery.esm

[X] SexoutLegion.esm

[X] SexoutStore.esm

[X] jokristinascloset.esm

[X] MikotoBeauty.esm

[X] Mission Mojave - Ultimate Edition.esp

[X] jsawyer.esp

[X] The Mod Configuration Menu.esp

[X] populatedcasino-light.esp

[X] SunnyCompanion.esp

[X] SexoutZAZ.esp

[X] SmallerTalk.esp

[X] KDC_Companions_Removable_Armors.esp

[X] SexoutClothingEval.esp

[X] SexoutBrutalRapers.esp

[X] SexoutCheckMeOut.esp

[X] SexoutDiscounts.esp

[X] SexoutFadeToBlack.esp

[X] SexoutHookupsAlt.esp

[X] SexoutLust.esp

[X] SexoutRapist.esp

[X] SexoutSS_C.esp

[X] SexoutTrade.esp

[X] SexoutKhans.esp

[X] SexoutWorkingGirl.esp

[X] SexoutNCR.esp

[X] SexoutPowderGangers.esp

[X] SexoutKings.esp

[X] SexoutFiends.esp

[X] SexoutConsequences.esp

[X] bzArmour.esp

[X] jocutiepie.esp

[X] SLADistributedNecklaces.esp

[X] jocassfacem.esp

[X] joveronicafacem.esp

[X] MikotoBeauty.esp

[X] mergedpatched.esp

 

 

[maelion]

Running a merged patch too.

I noticed stutter in cells with lot of npc's, dead bodies.