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Entry 2 - Storytime: Trees, Forsworn, and Murder


Deep Red

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Survey says...! (Recommend reading entire entry before voting!)  

147 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you use the Alteration perk tree?

    • Yes, it's useful!
      79
    • No, it's a waste of perk points!
      71
  2. 2. How would you envision quest progression within Call of the Wild?

    • Constant interaction with the people of your tribe and its leader.
      35
    • Steady interaction with a single person. Perhaps a wise and powerful druid?
      10
    • Periodic interaction with the people of your tribe and its leader.
      32
    • Short to brief interaction with a single person.
      2
    • Quest progression shouldn't involve people.. at all.
      4
    • Based on brief encounters with people, most of it is done via interactions with a deity.
      9
    • Regular interaction with non-sapient creatures. (animals, daedra, spriggans, ghosts, etc)
      58

blog-0275170001394145669.jpgOne of the biggest things we've yet to nail down is quest progression. Since Call of the Wild will have a good share of quests, it is also an important decision to make. While CotW will have a feature to simply skip the quests and all the stuff which comes between learning new spells, abilities, crafting recipes, rituals, and getting tattoos inked on, questing will likely be the only way to obtain and unlock the new features the mod will offer if you play CotW the way it was intended to. But unfortunately, this is where the problems begin.

 

 

Forsworn_1.jpg

 

Forsworn: Friend or foe?

 

The Forsworn Dilemma

 

At first glance, it seems pretty obvious that something has to drive the quest progression. Well, at least for those of us who care about it. :P It is deceptively difficult to address that issue however. The forsworn are the closest thing to a druidic tribe as Skyrim's lore provides. Now if we were in Valenwood or High Rock, it'd be a no-brainer as there is plenty possibility in both provinces of Tamriel. Let's face it, the Forsworn are too busy worshiping blood-covered statues and sacrificing puppies to care about nature and its powerful ancient magicks. They'd be even less interested in performing a ritual which doesn't include carving up some poor random sob to offer his innards to some non-existent deity. The current Forsworn are simply too violent for the purposes we need them for.

 

Whilst having a chat with Frostbrand a while back, we can to an alternate solution: create a splinter branch of the Forsworn. This may seem a little far-fetched, but it's the best option for keeping Call of the Wild as lore-friendly as possible. The plan calls for a group of Forsworn to reject the beliefs, teachings, and way of life from their other brethren. The argument here would be that they feel their brothers and sisters have strayed too far from their free roots and twisted the old ways of the Forsworn. The mainstream tribes preferred to twist the magicks granted to them and corrupt themselves with poisonous behaviors such as revenge, spite, and wrath, forming the freaks of nature we know as hagravens. Failing to convince their fellow tribesmen, they instead break away from them and found their own tribe which embraces a harmonious coexistence with mother nature and chose to preserve the ways of the old. These guys will be known as the Thornwood Covenant. This is where the player comes in.

 

 

Forsworn_8.jpg

 

Much like the Thornwood Covenant, except they like killing people... a lot.

Arson, Murder, & Jaywalking

 

While minding their own business, hacking away at a revered tree or burning spriggans to a crisp, the player is approached by a member of the Thornwood Covenant who is alarmed to find him/her defiling their sacred woods. The player is confronted by the tribesman and promptly accused of being a member of the Forsworn. Much to the player's dismay, they realize that there is no way of reasoning with the angry tribesman. Here they are presented with the illusion of a choice:

  1. You can either try to run away, get shot with an arrow dipped in a paralytic poison, and brought before the shaman.
  2. You can try to talk your way out, get hit with a spell that makes you incredibly horny, and brought before the shaman.
  3. You can agree to speak with the shaman, but get clubbed over the head anyway, and brought before the shaman.

Regardless of your choice, as you can see, you'll be having a little chat with their shaman. Once you're brought to him (or her, we haven't decided), you'll be forced to answer for your "crimes" which include desecration of a sacred forest, trespassing into Thornwood territory, and.. wearing clothing. Ideally, I want this part to become a little more dynamic. The shaman's reactions would differ depending on the character's race, gender, the type of gear they're wearing, and perhaps even the factions they belong to (stormcloak army, imperial legion, college of winterhold, thieves' guild, etc.).

 

Naturally, the shaman would be more receptive and friendlier with a Bosmer or Breton player, and more aggressive toward a Nord or Imperial player. Khajiit, Argonians, Redguards, Dunmer, Orsimer, and Altmer character would fall in the gray area somewhere. I'm not quite sure if or how custom races would be supported for this particular part for obvious reasons. Best guess is that there will be a generic reaction in place for these situations. Carrying heavy armor and a two-handed weapon will yield a more apprehensive tribe shaman, where as carrying light armor and a bow or dagger might only cause suspicion. The player's gender is the area where I am a bit iffy on. Since we're aiming to integrate both sexes equally into CotW, we'll have to be careful where we go with this. Thankfully nothing is set in stone at this point though.

 

 

Forsworn_7.jpg

These guys will fuck your day UP!

 

Kill Trees, Meet New Friends!

 

Anywho, after explaining yourself to their leader, you will be absolved of all your "crimes" except one: wearing clothing. The Thornwood Covenant fiercely adhere to their ancient traditions and customs. Wearing clothes within their land is considered a grave offense, as they had sworn away with clothing long ago. The reason for that being is that they believe that proper worship of the forests' spirits can only be done when a person has become one with nature. This means that said person must be in their purest form, which is the same way they were brought into the world: stark naked. Our valiant Dragonborn hero will be faced with a critical decision from here. You'll either choose to do fulfill a dying tribeman's last rite and fuck an old coot if you're female, or an old crone if you're male. Alternatively, you can refuse to do as they ask.

 

Choosing to comply with their demand will absolve your last crime and clear your name. Furthermore, you'll be setting the foundation down to join the Thornwood Covenant later. Refusing to grant the dying tribe member their last rite will cause the tribe leader to exile you. Being exiled from their settlement isn't the end, however. You can still choose to return at a later time and redeem yourself. After being given the boot from the Thornwood Covenant, you will be contacted by the Forsworn and offered to join them instead. These guys will differ from the rest of the Forsworn in the sense that they're more obsessed with Primal Magic than their mainstream counterparts. They're trying to do the exact opposite that the Thornwood Covenant is. They focus on the darker subschools of Primal Magic, namely the Ferocity & Decay schools. They'll still require you to swear away clothing in order to join, as this Primal Magic is also closely tied with the worship of the old spirits.

 

 

Forsworn_9.jpg

 

Forsworn in their natural state.

 

Jooooin ussss!

 

Both the Thornwood Covenant and Forsworn have their pros & cons. As mentioned before, the Forsworn will emphasize the Ferocity and Decay subschools of Primal Magic, which specializes in damage spells and placing hexes on opponents to wear out or control them. The Thornwood Covenant will focus on the Growth and Allure subschools, which excel at boosting, healing, and manipulation of opponents' sexual urges as a means to reduce their combat effectiveness or incapacitate them. There is a middle ground between both factions when it comes to the special conjuration spells they utilize. Forsworn conjuration spells summon powerful demons or daedra and subjugate the spirits of the dead, forcing them to fight for the caster, whereas the Thornwood Covenant call upon the spirits of their ancestors or wild beasts to aid them in battle.

 

The beauty of primal magic's lore is that it requires a balance of the four subschools in order to function correctly. Choosing to focus too much on a single subschool can cause the deities of the forest to lose their favor or even right out abandon you. Both factions have different ways of releasing the accumulated primal energy as well. Thornwood tribesmen will either have consensual sex or perform a ritual of sexual or erotic nature. Forsworn tribesmen will engage in brutal rape, sadomasochistic sex, or perform demonic rituals involving sacrifices (which are also of sexual or erotic nature). These methods of release will become vital, as going without releasing stored primal energy can be detrimental to your health and could lead to death if held in long enough.

 

 

A Rigged Election

 

Now, if you've been wondering what the poll is all about, then let me explain a bit more. Call of the Wild is going to include new perks, at very worst it will overhaul the existing ones. Since creating entirely new perk trees is impossible, we're starting to explore alternative methods to add new perks while being minimally intrusive on what already exists. Ideally, we can get something like a MCM-based perk tree in which players will spend earned XP points on new perks via the MCM menu. This is what was being explored prior to Frostbrand's kidna - I mean, before he returned to school for the next semester. Since that is a league out of my department, I don't know the exact details of what is going to happen with that. While it is an extremely attractive alternative to simply redoing perk trees, we still have to consider the possibility of having to butcher at least one to get the perks we need in the game.

 

From my own experience, the Alteration tree was the one I never used. Not once did I drop a single perk point into that tree. There was just no incentive for doing so. Sure, the armor spells were nice and all, but it was a BITCH having to keep switching spells during combat to cast or refresh stoneflesh or ebonyflesh. It was a hell of a lot easier to just wear light armor and enchant it with magicka regeneration effects or cost reduction enchantments. This makes the alteration perk tree a prime candidate for the cutting block in my book.

 

Also, I (we) am concerned that we might be taking the quest progression in the wrong direction. We've gotten mixed feedback from this and would like to get your thoughts on it. Although there will be the option to skip the quests and get all the neat features, spells, and abilities at the press of a button, there are those who still enjoy a good tale and immersion.

 

What do you guys think?

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I suggested on the main thread that Forgotten Magic has a sort of perk system that was implemented via MCM.  It worked fairly well, even if it was basic.  I really don't touch Alteration much, even if I think it could be useful.

 

If its possible to have a cheat button for those that don't want the quests, I think that is a fair option, though really, I am kinda hoping for the quests.  Hell, just give people access to the names so they can ~ help primalstuff 4 and find it themselves.

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I also think half of CotW's fun is the quests. But there will always be those sort of people who don't really care for a story and quests, unfortunately.

 

The alteration perk tree, at least for me, is nearly completely useless. Looking at the poll results so far though indicates that there's a small group of people that feel the same way. We'll have to wait and see what Frost & Phoenix think of a MCM-based perk system. I personally love the idea, but I don't have a clue how difficult it would be. I'll definitely be checking out Forgotten Magic though. Thanks for the heads up.

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Instead of just removing/changing a tree you could follow SkyRE's example and merge together two trees into one (pickpocket and lockpicking becoming fingersmith) to make room for a new tree. If you just tone down the alteration perks scaling maybe they could be merged with the restoration or conjuration tree?

Since alteration and restoration already are rather similar in restoring health/keeping you healthy you could probably just add on a secondary effect to the already existing restoration perks.

ex:

Regeneration - Req: 20 Restoration, Novice restoration - Healing spells cure 50% more.

Becomes ->

(Fancy perk name) - Req: 20 Resto/Alteration, Novice resto/Alteration - Healing spells are 50% more effective and Alteration spells last 50% longer.

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If it comes to worst and the MCM perk system is a no-go, we'll likely just expand the existing skill perk trees and leave the vanilla perks alone for those who actually used them. Personally, I'm against merging perk trees, but ultimately it will be Frostbrand's call to make if it does come down to it.

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Will you be making this magic compatable with the Skyrim redone and better magic mods? as i use these mods and they alter the way the magic trees are and amount and type of magic spells in the game?

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Will you be making this magic compatable with the Skyrim redone and better magic mods? as i use these mods and they alter the way the magic trees are and amount and type of magic spells in the game?

 

I want to say "yes", but truth is I don't know. There isn't anyone on the development team (at least that I know of) who uses SkyRe. It will depend on how much work it would be. If I remember correctly, SkyRe pretty much overhauls every perk tree in the game along with a crapload of other things.

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Will you be making this magic compatable with the Skyrim redone and better magic mods? as i use these mods and they alter the way the magic trees are and amount and type of magic spells in the game?

 

I want to say "yes", but truth is I don't know. There isn't anyone on the development team (at least that I know of) who uses SkyRe. It will depend on how much work it would be. If I remember correctly, SkyRe pretty much overhauls every perk tree in the game along with a crapload of other things.

 

yes, its a full skyrim overhaul, so there are a lot of things that have been changed with it, but if you dont think you will be able to make this mod compatable then i will have a look to see what over magic mods there are in stead and add other mods that will do other things that the overhaul do, if i may ask, what magic mods will be compatable with this mod? 

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@denver25: It's hard to say at this point, but anything that overhauls the vanilla perk trees may cause conflict. However, mods which add/change spells should be compatible.

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I like all these ideas ! You are right, a quest is always fun ! And using some Forsworn renegade is not a bad idea.

 I use the Alteration perk tree for mastering Paralysis which is very useful in combat but if there is something equal in the CotW spells (like some 'root' spell preventing the enemy from moving) it won't be disturbing imho. And all the magic cloaks giving more armor could be renamed and rebalanced with CotW, and maybe you could even equip some druid stuff to increase the cloaks' power, or get tattoos related to the spells you wish to master to make them even more useful.

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As far as the Forsworn being friends or enemies, I would definitely say enemies. The forsworn are not druidic at all really, they are rebels fighting against the Jarl of Markarth in order to overthrow him.  They were originally citizens of the Reach but the brutal methods of the Thalmor under the Jarl of Markarth's compliance left them broken, scarred, and looking for vengeance. In order to gain the power they believed they needed to defeat the Jarl and imperial forces they made blood deals with Hagravens and witches (Who are definitely not friends of nature at all).  Hagravens and Witches tap dark energies and uncontrolled magicka to do what they do. It twists their very nature, turning Witches eventually into Hagravens, these are creatures that sacrifice Spriggans for power and to defile nature.

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