[Idea/WIP] Devious Follower Interactions

[Verstort]

In the process of trying to think of a way to bring follower dialogue to Deviously Enslaved I find myself building a whole player/follower interaction system.

 

I want to double check that there aren't already other mod makers working on such a system, since it doesn't sound like an idea other authors might not have had, where the player and the follower may have bdsm theme sex wtih bondage, leading to player or follower slavery to the other at the end of the chain of events, and/or bondage hijinx.

 

 

Ok, assuming the follower starts in a decent relationship with player (since the game sets them to friend or ally I think once you make them a follower) So all DEC dialogue is a little too strong, think more fuck buddy or flirt, less serious dialogue, more personal.

 

Player can approach the NPC to start sex, I'm not even sure this needs to exist since several mods offer their own version of this. I can probably put it in anyway, and disable it in the options if other mods that have similar features are detected (or manual de-activation)

 

Possible situations:

 

NPC is horny, approaches player if player is naked or wearing... something. Maybe just any devious gear, maybe something specific. If player has had sex with this follower before that can also allow the NPC to brazenly suggest sex in not-public. Assume he's aroused, player has dialogue to match player aroused and not aroused. Probably need a few player responses: Yes, yes but lets move to a better area, no, no you need to calm down (dom), and others.

 

Sometime either in dungeon or after recently in dungeon, NPC approaches player, having found bondage equipment in a dungeon, either to put on themselves or you and possibly (probably) sex. Assume sex unless relationship has become dom/sub, or chasity item, maybe others later) Player's choice if dialogue should affect outcome, including if they like bondage, that bondage, bondage on npc, not aroused enough, later at home, maybe more

 

Let's assume the player can always deny the NPC (at least X times), lets assume the NPC isn't submissive (haven't worked out the details of that system yet) if the player is always denying (un-approachable), or mean (if the follower is submissive and the player isn't being nice to follower), follower can be less than helpful if the player is tied up (DCL most likely) either by gagging them, adding other items, changing items (belt -> belt + tems), taking keys, or just sex?

 

Later a mad follower -> player gets enslaved dialogue, but those are probably going to be enslave type specific. I mean enslave where follower is not master, stuff like player is sold or given to someone else to tenderize kind of treatment(SD+, Slaverun, Simple slavery, ect). If player becomes follower's slave they either must be submissive a lot or choose the option in dialogue (Lola, maybe others if Maria eden is no longer player slave focused).

 

Follower can turn into the submissive slave instead  (Mia's lair or Paradise Halls)

 

Needs to be dialogue that shows the player is willing, likes it, hates it differences, at least once of each, maybe for the NPC too if the player suggests they wear gear or do something specific (oral/anal, ect).

 

I don't really want to write this mod, since I hate writing dialogue and that's the face of the mod, but I might get enough help to bypass this. I don't really want to start down the long road if another author is on the cusp of releasing their own mod to do something similar though.

 

I know SkyrimLL was working on something similar for sexlab dialogues + SD+, but I haven't seen it, and I probably want more variety than what he might offer. Is anyone else working on a similar system?

 

Edit: Looks like dialogues focuses on when player is already slave? This is more player x follower build up to either/or direction, which it doesn't look like dialogues handles, probably wrong though...

[Inte]

CoCo has been working on this.

http://www.loverslab.com/topic/46227-reward-your-followers-v5d-2/

[Verstort]

CoCo has been working on this.

http://www.loverslab.com/topic/46227-reward-your-followers-v5d-2/

 

Huh, I missed that.

 

But I was kinda focusing on devious interactions, reading the description it looks like this is just sex and dialogue (custom for each NPC, sure, but just sex and dialogue)

 

Should probably check it out in further detail..

[Koda]

Not trying to dissuade you, but I would say that everything you've mentioned an interest in can be done by some mod or another and if I were to make a request of any of those mods, it would be for more robust dialogue (which you say you hate writing).

 

There are a lot of great bdsm-themed "systems," but what they all tend to lack (relatively speaking; they're still great and sexy of course) is plain density and minutiae. Most dialogues feel like a means to an end (enslavement quest hooks, equipping devious devices, sex animations, etc.) rather than an actual conversation. Most decisions are stand-ins for "be obedient" or "be rebellious" so the mod can determine whether to play a whipping or sex animation rather than a real inquiry into how the player character feels about their situation (even the excellent Captured Dreams shop, which has some prompts explicitly asking how the character feels, provide three obviously telegraphed submissive/neutral/dominant answers).

 

I fully understand that writing lengthy back-and-forth dialogues with enough options to accommodate everything the player-character might say is time consuming and potentially outright boring, so I don't blame anyone for not doing it, but if you asked me how best to implement almost any of the features you mentioned I'd probably say "elaborate dialogue tree."

 

For instance:

Sometime either in dungeon or after recently in dungeon, NPC approaches player, having found bondage equipment in a dungeon, either to put on themselves or you and possibly (probably) sex. Assume sex unless relationship has become dom/sub, or chasity item, maybe others later) Player's choice if dialogue should affect outcome, including if they like bondage, that bondage, bondage on npc, not aroused enough, later at home, maybe more

 

I'm using this example because it's a feature I'm not sure any other mod precisely offers (although Cursed Loot obviously handles getting restrained while dungeon-crawling in general).

 

As a theoretical player, if I want to prance around in Devious Devices there are countless ways to do it. If I want my generic follower (ie. not Cursed Loot's Leon or Mia's Dominant Andrew) to dominate me there are at least three I can think of off-hand (SL Mind Control, Play Submissive, and Submissive Lola). It sounds like you want to explore bdsm in the context of the actual adventurer-follower relationship, however, which is unique enough to delve into (even if that's not what you want, hopefully the following will still illustrate my point).

 

Let's say the bare-bones interaction is a force-greet that has a chance of triggering in dungeons where the follower confronts the PC with a device. The opening line could be something like: "Hey, I found this (device) in a chest you missed. Want to have some fun with it?" Ideally, this prompts the most effort a player has ever gone through to equip a device.

 

 

(PC responses are bolded.)

 

"Hey, I found this (device) in a chest you missed. Want to have some fun with it?"

 

 

 

1. "Sure, show me how it looks on you."
   1. "You're the boss. What's next?"
      1. "Nothing for now, but you look damn good."
         1. "I'll wear it for a bit then; let's proceed" (End)
      2. "You wear it until I give you permission to take it off."
         1. "Yes (sir/ma'am)." (End)
      3. "Since you're so clearly asking for it, bend over."
         1. "The jig is up? Alright then." (Sex)
         2. "Will you be gentle?"
            1. "Of course, love." (Loving sex)
            2. "If you insist." (Sex)
            3. "If you want. But that's not what you want, is it?"
               1. "You got me. Fuck me hard!" (Aggressive sex)
            4. "No." (Aggressive sex)
      4. "It involves you on your knees."
         1. "Yes (sir/ma'am)." (Oral sex)
   2. "Your wish is my command. Anything else I can do for you?"
      1. (See above for the sake of brevity)
   3. "Alright, how do I look? Feel free to come closer if you can't get a good look."
      1. "Closer? Don't mind if I do."
         1. (Leads into above choices, roughly)
      2. "You look great. We should probably move on though."
         1. "Fair enough. I think I'll wear it for a while longer, though." (End)
         2. "Oh, you're no fun, but fine." (End)
         3. "Oh, you're no fun. Maybe I'll put it on you next time and we'll see if you're still so complacent."
            1. You want it that bad? Fine, bend over. (Sex)
            2. "Don't even think about it." (End)
            3. "We'll see, I suppose."
      3. "It's a bit impractical..."
         1. "You think it's meant to be practical? That's adorable. Let's move on then." (End)
         2. "It's not meant to be practical, it's meant to be... well, why don't you try it on?"
            1. "Absolutely not." (End)
            2. "Sure, why not."
               1. (See other trees where PC wears device)
            3. "Is it comfortable?"
               1. "Only one way to find out."
                  1. "Well, alright."
                     1. (See other trees where PC wears device)
                  2. "Maybe later."
                     1. (See below, End)
                  3. "Actually, forget it. Let's go." (End)
               2. "That's a matter of opinion."
                  1. (See above)
               3. "It can be very comfortable once you get used to it."
                  1. (See above)
               4. "If you're brave enough to ask, I think you'll be alright."
                  1. (See above)
            4. "Maybe later; we've lingered long enough."
               1. "Fair enough" (End)
               2. "I'll hold you to that." (End)
               3. "If you say so." (End)
   4. "Actually, I was thinking it would go better on you."
      1. (The above should give an idea of what would go here.)
2. "What did you have in mind?"
   1. "I was thinking I'd try it on, you would tell me how I look, and we go from there."
      1. (See above)
   2. "I was thinking you'd try it on and I would think of where to go from there."
      1. (See above and below)
   3. "That depends, "boss" -- do you always have to take the lead, or just in the field?"
      1. "Always. Get to the point."
         1. (See "I was thinking I'd try it on...")
      2. "Sorry, have I upset you somehow?"
         1. "Oh, not at all. But you'd make me especially happy if you tried this on."
            1. "Alright, if that's what you want."
               1. "Perfect. Good (boy/girl)." (Further PC-sub dialogue)
            2. "I'd rather not."
               1. "Oh, alright. Maybe another time, then." (End)
               2. (Potentially additional dialogue trying to probe/persuade the PC as seen elsewhere)
         2. "Hmm, maybe. If you had, would you do me a little favor to earn my forgiveness?"
            1. "Yes, of course."
               1. "Alright then; put this on for me."
                  1. (See other acceptance/hesitation dialogues)
            2. "It would depend on the favor, and what I'd done."
               1. "Well, your obliviousness is giving me a hard time, but you can make up for it by letting me get on with this: put this (device) on for me, okay?"
                  1. (See above)
            3. "Well, you'd have to make a pretty good case."
               1. (See above)
            4. "Stop being coy."
               1. "Fine. I want you to wear this (device) for me."
                  1. (See above)
         3. "Now that you mention it, I'm sure I could think of something. Care to make amends?"
            1. (See above)
         4. "Yes, in fact. You've been a very naughty (boy/girl) and I need to punish you."
            1. "What in Tamriel are you on about?"
               1. "You're a bit thick, you know? We can discuss this later." (End)
            2. "Um, alright?"
               1. "Good (boy/girl). Wear this." (Further PC-sub dialogue)
            3. "Are you serious? How dare you."
               1. "No, I'm not serious; I apologize. Let's just continue our journey." (End)
            4. "I'm not a (boy/girl)!"
               1. "...Said every (boy/girl) since the dawn of time. Be good and put this (device) on and I'll go easy on you, okay."
                  1. "Well, alright."
                     1. (Further PC-sub dialogue)
                  2. "This is ridiculous. Let's move -- that's an order."
                     1. "Oh alright; I was just having some fun." (End)
            5. "Oh, okay. Punish me however you want, then."
      3. "What's that supposed to mean?"
         1. "It means I'd like you to put this on and do what I tell you for a little while, if you're up to it."
            1. (See above)
         2. (Etc.)
      4. "You're welcome to make a suggestion, if that's what you're asking."
         1. "Alright. My suggestion is to put this on and follow me instructions."
            1. (See above)
         2. (Etc.)
   4. "That depends on how well you can follow orders."
      1. "I don't follow orders. I give them, remember?"
         1. "In that case..." (See "I was thinking I'd try it on...")
      2. "I'd like to think I can follow them as well as you if need be."
         1. "In that case..." (See "I was thinking you'd try it on...")
      3. "What would you like me to do?"
         1. (More assertive variant of the above)
   5. "That depends on the orders you give me."
      1. "I don't have any particular orders, but it's good you know your place."
         1. "In that case..." (See "I was thinking I'd try it on...")
      2. "I appreciate that, but I asked what "you" had in mind."
         1. "In that case..." (See "I was thinking I'd try it on...")
         2. "In that case..." (See "I was thinking you'd try it on...")
         3. (Potential random sub/dom response)
      3. "I'd prefer to think of us as a team rather than me giving orders."
         1. "In that case..." (See "I was thinking you'd try it on...")
         2. (Potential dialogue tree where follower tries to "bait" PC into asking to be given orders)
3. "I'm not going to wear it, if that's what you're asking."
   1. (Too late in the evening to fully expand this branch, but it would roughly match the follower-sub paths above.)
4. "If you're asking for permission to wear it, I'm not stopping you."
   1. (Too late in the evening to fully expand this branch, but it would roughly match the follower probing to see if they can get away with being dominant and reverting to submission [or giving up if the PC is overly oblivious] as above.)
5. "This is hardly the time or the place, you know?"
   1. (Flags a follow-up conversation to occur when the PC/follower are back in town or wherever. Mechanically, choosing this enough times while accepting fun during the follow-up conversation would eventually cause the conversation to simply happen back at town with slightly different into dialogue ["Hey, back when we were in that dungeon I found..." etc.])

 

 

 

Congratulations on making it down here to the end. Note the many similar and arguably redundant options, and that some responses are obviously dominant or submissive while others are ambiguous, indifferent, or even lampoon the situation in such a way that the follower/game-system are invited to decide or randomize what happens. And even then, it's not really "the end" anyway: the above only really fits if the follower has a neutral disposition anyway. They would act a bit differently if they are already Dominant or Submissive.

 

 

 

Dominant

"Hey, I found this (device) in a chest you missed and thought it would look good on you."

 

1. "I bet it would. Care to do the honors?"
   1. (Flirty PC-sub content)
2. "I'm not sure..."
   1. (Prompts the follower to persuade, coax, or insist)
3. "You must be joking."
   1. (Pushes toward PC-dom in the long-term, but might cause tension in the short-term if the follower is heavily dominant)
4. "I'm not going to wear it, if that's what you're asking."
   1. (Prompts the follower to persuade, coax, insist, or give up)
5. "It would look better on you, I think."
   1. (Pushes toward flirty PC-dom in the long-term, but might backfire in the short-term.)
6. "What are you suggesting, exactly?"
   1. (Obligatory "PC is oblivious to bdsm" branch, prompting follower to take the lead as in some of the examples above)
7. "This is hardly the time or the place, you know?"
   1. (See above, although heavily dominant follower would insist)

This tree would probably end up being longer than the Neutral one because of the potential for the PC to refuse or hesitate, the necessity of the follower attempting to force or convince them, the catharsis or complication of the PC giving in or resisting respectively, and how this ultimately affects the follower disposition.

 

 

Submissive

"Hey, I found this (device) in a chest you missed. Do you think it would look good on me?"

1. "Sure, go for it."
   1. (Light PC-dom by default.)
2. "Do whatever you want with it."
   1. (Potential for follower to turn the tables / suggest switching in the long term.)
3. "I think you should know to already be wearing it by now."
   1. (Emphasizes PC-dom)
4. "If you're asking for permission to wear it, I'm not stopping you."
   1. ("PC is oblivious to bdsm" branch.)
5. "This is hardly the time or the place, you know?"
   1. (See above.)

This tree would probably be the shortest, but not trivially so. If it's taken for granted that the follower is submissive, potential for additional dialogues are opened where the PC pushes their limits or simply flirts about the nature of them bringing home bondage items from dungeons.

 

 

 

And even then, all of that just covers putting the device on. In the more hesitant/nervous PC-sub branches, the follower would certainly ask how the device feels, which contains many responses (tactile, psychological, emotional) and counter-responses by the follower. If the PC dislikes it, the follower might try and reassure them either by the triviality of the situation ("It's just a strip of leather around your neck") or the intimacy of it ("I know it's tight, but it'll remind you that I'm here for you.") -- or they might shrug it off, put the device on themselves, and ask the PC to ravage them. Who knows -- all those eventualities should probably be available.

 

 

Ultimately that I think the "systems" for this type of content are already there and the only thing that "hasn't been done" is to populate them with the richness they deserve. Hopefully the above shows what that might look like, but if it doesn't seem worth it (it's undeniably exhausting, and I say that as someone who likes writing dialogue), I'm not sure it's worth your time to recreate the systems either.

 

That said, I think DEC is great already so I look forward to whatever you end up doing. Cheers!

[Jayleia]

 

Ultimately that I think the "systems" for this type of content are already there and the only thing that "hasn't been done" is to populate them with the richness they deserve. Hopefully the above shows what that might look like, but if it doesn't seem worth it (it's undeniably exhausting, and I say that as someone who likes writing dialogue), I'm not sure it's worth your time to recreate the systems either.

 

That said, I think DEC is great already so I look forward to whatever you end up doing. Cheers!

 

Agreed...and since you've obviously given it a LOT of thought...I'd nominate you to help Verstort with dialogues.

 

Or at least to come up with the dialogue trees, might need someone else to come up with the actual dialogues.

[Verstort]

Not trying to dissuade you, but I would say that everything you've mentioned an interest in can be done by some mod or another and if I were to make a request of any of those mods, it would be for more robust dialogue (which you say you hate writing).

 

There are a lot of great bdsm-themed "systems," but what they all tend to lack (relatively speaking; they're still great and sexy of course) is plain density and minutiae. Most dialogues feel like a means to an end (enslavement quest hooks, equipping devious devices, sex animations, etc.) rather than an actual conversation. Most decisions are stand-ins for "be obedient" or "be rebellious" so the mod can determine whether to play a whipping or sex animation rather than a real inquiry into how the player character feels about their situation (even the excellent Captured Dreams shop, which has some prompts explicitly asking how the character feels, provide three obviously telegraphed submissive/neutral/dominant answers).

 

I fully understand that writing lengthy back-and-forth dialogues with enough options to accommodate everything the player-character might say is time consuming and potentially outright boring, so I don't blame anyone for not doing it, but if you asked me how best to implement almost any of the features you mentioned I'd probably say "elaborate dialogue tree."

 

For instance:

Sometime either in dungeon or after recently in dungeon, NPC approaches player, having found bondage equipment in a dungeon, either to put on themselves or you and possibly (probably) sex. Assume sex unless relationship has become dom/sub, or chasity item, maybe others later) Player's choice if dialogue should affect outcome, including if they like bondage, that bondage, bondage on npc, not aroused enough, later at home, maybe more

 

I'm using this example because it's a feature I'm not sure any other mod precisely offers (although Cursed Loot obviously handles getting restrained while dungeon-crawling in general).

 

As a theoretical player, if I want to prance around in Devious Devices there are countless ways to do it. If I want my generic follower (ie. not Cursed Loot's Leon or Mia's Dominant Andrew) to dominate me there are at least three I can think of off-hand (SL Mind Control, Play Submissive, and Submissive Lola). It sounds like you want to explore bdsm in the context of the actual adventurer-follower relationship, however, which is unique enough to delve into (even if that's not what you want, hopefully the following will still illustrate my point).

 

Let's say the bare-bones interaction is a force-greet that has a chance of triggering in dungeons where the follower confronts the PC with a device. The opening line could be something like: "Hey, I found this (device) in a chest you missed. Want to have some fun with it?" Ideally, this prompts the most effort a player has ever gone through to equip a device.

 

 

(PC responses are bolded.)

 

"Hey, I found this (device) in a chest you missed. Want to have some fun with it?"

 

 

 

1. "Sure, show me how it looks on you."
   1. "You're the boss. What's next?"
      1. "Nothing for now, but you look damn good."
         1. "I'll wear it for a bit then; let's proceed" (End)
      2. "You wear it until I give you permission to take it off."
         1. "Yes (sir/ma'am)." (End)
      3. "Since you're so clearly asking for it, bend over."
         1. "The jig is up? Alright then." (Sex)
         2. "Will you be gentle?"
            1. "Of course, love." (Loving sex)
            2. "If you insist." (Sex)
            3. "If you want. But that's not what you want, is it?"
               1. "You got me. Fuck me hard!" (Aggressive sex)
            4. "No." (Aggressive sex)
      4. "It involves you on your knees."
         1. "Yes (sir/ma'am)." (Oral sex)
   2. "Your wish is my command. Anything else I can do for you?"
      1. (See above for the sake of brevity)
   3. "Alright, how do I look? Feel free to come closer if you can't get a good look."
      1. "Closer? Don't mind if I do."
         1. (Leads into above choices, roughly)
      2. "You look great. We should probably move on though."
         1. "Fair enough. I think I'll wear it for a while longer, though." (End)
         2. "Oh, you're no fun, but fine." (End)
         3. "Oh, you're no fun. Maybe I'll put it on you next time and we'll see if you're still so complacent."
            1. You want it that bad? Fine, bend over. (Sex)
            2. "Don't even think about it." (End)
            3. "We'll see, I suppose."
      3. "It's a bit impractical..."
         1. "You think it's meant to be practical? That's adorable. Let's move on then." (End)
         2. "It's not meant to be practical, it's meant to be... well, why don't you try it on?"
            1. "Absolutely not." (End)
            2. "Sure, why not."
               1. (See other trees where PC wears device)
            3. "Is it comfortable?"
               1. "Only one way to find out."
                  1. "Well, alright."
                     1. (See other trees where PC wears device)
                  2. "Maybe later."
                     1. (See below, End)
                  3. "Actually, forget it. Let's go." (End)
               2. "That's a matter of opinion."
                  1. (See above)
               3. "It can be very comfortable once you get used to it."
                  1. (See above)
               4. "If you're brave enough to ask, I think you'll be alright."
                  1. (See above)
            4. "Maybe later; we've lingered long enough."
               1. "Fair enough" (End)
               2. "I'll hold you to that." (End)
               3. "If you say so." (End)
   4. "Actually, I was thinking it would go better on you."
      1. (The above should give an idea of what would go here.)
2. "What did you have in mind?"
   1. "I was thinking I'd try it on, you would tell me how I look, and we go from there."
      1. (See above)
   2. "I was thinking you'd try it on and I would think of where to go from there."
      1. (See above and below)
   3. "That depends, "boss" -- do you always have to take the lead, or just in the field?"
      1. "Always. Get to the point."
         1. (See "I was thinking I'd try it on...")
      2. "Sorry, have I upset you somehow?"
         1. "Oh, not at all. But you'd make me especially happy if you tried this on."
            1. "Alright, if that's what you want."
               1. "Perfect. Good (boy/girl)." (Further PC-sub dialogue)
            2. "I'd rather not."
               1. "Oh, alright. Maybe another time, then." (End)
               2. (Potentially additional dialogue trying to probe/persuade the PC as seen elsewhere)
         2. "Hmm, maybe. If you had, would you do me a little favor to earn my forgiveness?"
            1. "Yes, of course."
               1. "Alright then; put this on for me."
                  1. (See other acceptance/hesitation dialogues)
            2. "It would depend on the favor, and what I'd done."
               1. "Well, your obliviousness is giving me a hard time, but you can make up for it by letting me get on with this: put this (device) on for me, okay?"
                  1. (See above)
            3. "Well, you'd have to make a pretty good case."
               1. (See above)
            4. "Stop being coy."
               1. "Fine. I want you to wear this (device) for me."
                  1. (See above)
         3. "Now that you mention it, I'm sure I could think of something. Care to make amends?"
            1. (See above)
         4. "Yes, in fact. You've been a very naughty (boy/girl) and I need to punish you."
            1. "What in Tamriel are you on about?"
               1. "You're a bit thick, you know? We can discuss this later." (End)
            2. "Um, alright?"
               1. "Good (boy/girl). Wear this." (Further PC-sub dialogue)
            3. "Are you serious? How dare you."
               1. "No, I'm not serious; I apologize. Let's just continue our journey." (End)
            4. "I'm not a (boy/girl)!"
               1. "...Said every (boy/girl) since the dawn of time. Be good and put this (device) on and I'll go easy on you, okay."
                  1. "Well, alright."
                     1. (Further PC-sub dialogue)
                  2. "This is ridiculous. Let's move -- that's an order."
                     1. "Oh alright; I was just having some fun." (End)
            5. "Oh, okay. Punish me however you want, then."
      3. "What's that supposed to mean?"
         1. "It means I'd like you to put this on and do what I tell you for a little while, if you're up to it."
            1. (See above)
         2. (Etc.)
      4. "You're welcome to make a suggestion, if that's what you're asking."
         1. "Alright. My suggestion is to put this on and follow me instructions."
            1. (See above)
         2. (Etc.)
   4. "That depends on how well you can follow orders."
      1. "I don't follow orders. I give them, remember?"
         1. "In that case..." (See "I was thinking I'd try it on...")
      2. "I'd like to think I can follow them as well as you if need be."
         1. "In that case..." (See "I was thinking you'd try it on...")
      3. "What would you like me to do?"
         1. (More assertive variant of the above)
   5. "That depends on the orders you give me."
      1. "I don't have any particular orders, but it's good you know your place."
         1. "In that case..." (See "I was thinking I'd try it on...")
      2. "I appreciate that, but I asked what "you" had in mind."
         1. "In that case..." (See "I was thinking I'd try it on...")
         2. "In that case..." (See "I was thinking you'd try it on...")
         3. (Potential random sub/dom response)
      3. "I'd prefer to think of us as a team rather than me giving orders."
         1. "In that case..." (See "I was thinking you'd try it on...")
         2. (Potential dialogue tree where follower tries to "bait" PC into asking to be given orders)
3. "I'm not going to wear it, if that's what you're asking."
   1. (Too late in the evening to fully expand this branch, but it would roughly match the follower-sub paths above.)
4. "If you're asking for permission to wear it, I'm not stopping you."
   1. (Too late in the evening to fully expand this branch, but it would roughly match the follower probing to see if they can get away with being dominant and reverting to submission [or giving up if the PC is overly oblivious] as above.)
5. "This is hardly the time or the place, you know?"
   1. (Flags a follow-up conversation to occur when the PC/follower are back in town or wherever. Mechanically, choosing this enough times while accepting fun during the follow-up conversation would eventually cause the conversation to simply happen back at town with slightly different into dialogue ["Hey, back when we were in that dungeon I found..." etc.])

 

 

 

Congratulations on making it down here to the end. Note the many similar and arguably redundant options, and that some responses are obviously dominant or submissive while others are ambiguous, indifferent, or even lampoon the situation in such a way that the follower/game-system are invited to decide or randomize what happens. And even then, it's not really "the end" anyway: the above only really fits if the follower has a neutral disposition anyway. They would act a bit differently if they are already Dominant or Submissive.

 

 

 

Dominant

"Hey, I found this (device) in a chest you missed and thought it would look good on you."

 

1. "I bet it would. Care to do the honors?"
   1. (Flirty PC-sub content)
2. "I'm not sure..."
   1. (Prompts the follower to persuade, coax, or insist)
3. "You must be joking."
   1. (Pushes toward PC-dom in the long-term, but might cause tension in the short-term if the follower is heavily dominant)
4. "I'm not going to wear it, if that's what you're asking."
   1. (Prompts the follower to persuade, coax, insist, or give up)
5. "It would look better on you, I think."
   1. (Pushes toward flirty PC-dom in the long-term, but might backfire in the short-term.)
6. "What are you suggesting, exactly?"
   1. (Obligatory "PC is oblivious to bdsm" branch, prompting follower to take the lead as in some of the examples above)
7. "This is hardly the time or the place, you know?"
   1. (See above, although heavily dominant follower would insist)

This tree would probably end up being longer than the Neutral one because of the potential for the PC to refuse or hesitate, the necessity of the follower attempting to force or convince them, the catharsis or complication of the PC giving in or resisting respectively, and how this ultimately affects the follower disposition.

 

 

Submissive

"Hey, I found this (device) in a chest you missed. Do you think it would look good on me?"

1. "Sure, go for it."
   1. (Light PC-dom by default.)
2. "Do whatever you want with it."
   1. (Potential for follower to turn the tables / suggest switching in the long term.)
3. "I think you should know to already be wearing it by now."
   1. (Emphasizes PC-dom)
4. "If you're asking for permission to wear it, I'm not stopping you."
   1. ("PC is oblivious to bdsm" branch.)
5. "This is hardly the time or the place, you know?"
   1. (See above.)

This tree would probably be the shortest, but not trivially so. If it's taken for granted that the follower is submissive, potential for additional dialogues are opened where the PC pushes their limits or simply flirts about the nature of them bringing home bondage items from dungeons.

 

 

 

And even then, all of that just covers putting the device on. In the more hesitant/nervous PC-sub branches, the follower would certainly ask how the device feels, which contains many responses (tactile, psychological, emotional) and counter-responses by the follower. If the PC dislikes it, the follower might try and reassure them either by the triviality of the situation ("It's just a strip of leather around your neck") or the intimacy of it ("I know it's tight, but it'll remind you that I'm here for you.") -- or they might shrug it off, put the device on themselves, and ask the PC to ravage them. Who knows -- all those eventualities should probably be available.

 

 

 

Ultimately that I think the "systems" for this type of content are already there and the only thing that "hasn't been done" is to populate them with the richness they deserve. Hopefully the above shows what that might look like, but if it doesn't seem worth it (it's undeniably exhausting, and I say that as someone who likes writing dialogue), I'm not sure it's worth your time to recreate the systems either.

 

That said, I think DEC is great already so I look forward to whatever you end up doing. Cheers!

 

Sorry, by "system" I meant just a regular mod, not a framework where other mod authors could add content. That's something I know nothing about when it comes to dialogue.

 

I couldn't even find a reliable way to link dialogue from two different mods without introducing a dependency chain. The dialogue for this would likely be un-alterable through plugin/addon unless I learn of a way to provide this.

 

And, yeah, I thought about asking other mod authors to add such content to their own mods, but I wasn't sure what kind of response I would get. I'm still surprised there isn't already something that is 80% of what I want already available, I didn't think this was an uncommon idea. I wouldn't mind getting away with some other author adding this to his mod, I would even help him, but I'm not sure how much time/energy I would lose in the attempt, and who.

 

Those other mods you listed though, the thought I had was that eventually they would take over, wholey or partially, at a certain point in the relationship, if their context was close enough to jump the writing gap. I wasn't intending to replace them exactly, but to build a lead-in or a supplement. If the writing is good enough, however, I don't see why it couldn't become a complete player slave to follower mod eventually, that just adds more content than I originally intended, then again I may be getting ahead of myself.

 

This dialogue you provided looks interesting, shows some of the potential problems and routes, and how many branches can exist for the first(or main) dialogue. Problems with

 

Different entrance dialogue for if the player is sub/dom, or the NPC is sub/dom was assumed to be a second level, a different tree with some of the latter branches possibly but different entering context (player/npc are no longer neutral, have done this(something) before). I need to recycle most of the first tree since using it once is silly, but the context needs to change as you've pointed out. I think I can get away with one tree, because you can tailor the player responses based on factors, so you just make the branches larger with lvl 1 and lvl 2 responses, but I need to try a proof of concept to convince myself.

 

Other trees include player asking NPC for something where that could be release from DCL items (if I can detect items being added to player through DCL, maybe even DCL specific dialogue) or release from items the NPC puts on them, or player initiating item adding to NPC, key holding, ect. It's just a tree with the direction swapped to player starting the conversation, with different subjects sometimes (pretty sure I can link player-> found item into here too)

 

Still not sure how to get the dialogue linked to the enslavement options at the later stages, but this is a decent start, can probably start working soon.

 

Agreed...and since you've obviously given it a LOT of thought...I'd nominate you to help Verstort with dialogues.

 

Or at least to come up with the dialogue trees, might need someone else to come up with the actual dialogues.

 

This conundrum has been preventing me from working for awhile now, implementing the scripting is easy but the dialogue, especially depth and quality, that is giving me pause. I just generally hate writing anything that isn't analytical, too perfectionist with what comes out of my own mouth. I don't have the imagination for spotting problems/holes in dialogue until someone shows it to me either.

 

If someone doesn't just step in and write the whole thing for me, It'll probably end up using a lot of Koda's suggestions, along with any other I receive. Hopefully it will be better than DEC's dialogue, which chase admits was a bit written from necessity. Dialogue is going to be the reason some people play this mod, it needs to pass grade, even if many users will use it as a means to an end.

 

Edit: Should point out, I need to sit down and actually play through a few specific mods first, and still not sure if this should be it's own mod or part of DE. The rest of DE can be stopped to the point it doesn't cause too much CPU/papyrus lag, only script memory bloat, so hopefully wouldn't annoy too many people.

[Jayleia]

 

Agreed...and since you've obviously given it a LOT of thought...I'd nominate you to help Verstort with dialogues.

 

Or at least to come up with the dialogue trees, might need someone else to come up with the actual dialogues.

 

This conundrum has been preventing me from working for awhile now, implementing the scripting is easy but the dialogue, especially depth and quality, that is giving me pause. I just generally hate writing anything that isn't analytical, too perfectionist with what comes out of my own mouth. I don't have the imagination for spotting problems/holes in dialogue until someone shows it to me either.

 

If someone doesn't just step in and write the whole thing for me, It'll probably end up using a lot of Koda's suggestions, along with any other I receive. Hopefully it will be better than DEC's dialogue, which chase admits was a bit written from necessity. Dialogue is going to be the reason some people play this mod, it needs to pass grade, even if many users will use it as a means to an end.

 

Edit: Should point out, I need to sit down and actually play through a few specific mods first, and still not sure if this should be it's own mod or part of DE. The rest of DE can be stopped to the point it doesn't cause too much CPU/papyrus lag, only script memory bloat, so hopefully wouldn't annoy too many people.

 

I can probably do the dialogue, if someone gives me the dialogue tree (my main complaint with most dialogues is the modernity of the speech).  I really think this should be a separate mod that leads to kinkiness rather than enslavement, DEC, SD etc handle the slavery fine.

 

DCL will tie you up and rape you if you have rape enabled, DH will rape you if you're tied up, Defeat will rape you.

 

DDequip will add devices to you, but its click and go, CD will equip devices as leading to enslavement...eventually.

 

But very few have something between people that are basically equals that just want to have fun with each other.  Other follower dom/sub mods are basically enslavement mods.  Even further dialogues could lead to further "lifestyle" D/s, but without the enslavement aspect.