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{2017 Feb 22 - Elin Voice Complete Fixed} Tera Elin Race

race Tera Elin unp cbbe followers replacers replacer

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#2181
skyramiel

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Can I request a topless version of elin underwear armor from converted vanilla sets?

I'm getting an error when I do it myself in 3ds max. textures are all messed up.

 

Thanks in advance.


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#2182
PsychoMachina

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Can I request a topless version of elin underwear armor from converted vanilla sets?

I'm getting an error when I do it myself in 3ds max. textures are all messed up.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

I'll see what I can do.


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#2183
Mud

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If possible, yes, please add support for my followers to the idle. All it should take is editing the ESP, is that right?

 

On the topic of FNIS I'll see if I can ask for any more information, but I have a feeling his distaste for the mod concerns the race's content and not the animation itself. Hopefully he'll be willing to provide some details. Basing this off of the FNIS mod description, every other mod that required an FNIS patch included modifications to vanilla files like Momo Acrobatic Jump's included 0_master.hkx, defaultmale.hkx and defaultfemale.hkx files. So it looks to me like the mod containing its own idlebehavior.hkx in its BSA is to blame as FNIS 6 now needs to modify that file, whereas it didn't in v5 - hence the idle mod having "its own behavior implementation". Except he's saying the idle should be achievable through standard FNIS functionality so a patch from his end shouldn't be necessary if the mod were to be redone as a proper v6 mod.

 

You mentioned that the mod is not unlike PCEA2, but I do see a difference there - PCEA2 accomplishes what it does without overwriting any vanilla behavior files and thus doesn't require a patch. On the other hand, its predecessor from XP32 did require a patch and does include a slew of behavior overwrites.

 

How or if this could actually be done, however, I haven't the faintest idea.


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#2184
PsychoMachina

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If possible, yes, please add support for my followers to the idle. All it should take is editing the ESP, is that right?

 

On the topic of FNIS I'll see if I can ask for any more information, but I have a feeling his distaste for the mod concerns the race's content and not the animation itself. Hopefully he'll be willing to provide some details. Basing this off of the FNIS mod description, every other mod that required an FNIS patch included modifications to vanilla files like Momo Acrobatic Jump's included 0_master.hkx, defaultmale.hkx and defaultfemale.hkx files. So it looks to me like the mod containing its own idlebehavior.hkx in its BSA is to blame as FNIS 6 now needs to modify that file, whereas it didn't in v5 - hence the idle mod having "its own behavior implementation". Except he's saying the idle should be achievable through standard FNIS functionality so a patch from his end shouldn't be necessary if the mod were to be redone as a proper v6 mod.

 

You mentioned that the mod is not unlike PCEA2, but I do see a difference there - PCEA2 accomplishes what it does without overwriting any vanilla behavior files and thus doesn't require a patch. On the other hand, its predecessor from XP32 did require a patch and does include a slew of behavior overwrites.

 

How or if this could actually be done, however, I haven't the faintest idea.

 

I doubt you'll get anything constructive from him, but if you still want to prod him for the info, good luck.

The idlebehavior.hkx that original came packaged with the mod is nothing more than what me, you, or anyone else can produce using the Generate FNIS for Users.  In fact, I have the loose files version installed and during the time I tried to make the animations work with finis 6, the idlebehavior was deleted and recreated using the generator from finis 6.  In addition, each and everytime I attempt to create the idlebehavior file, all existing idlebehavior files were deleted before creating the new file.

The Generate FNIS for modders works fine, btw.

 

PCEA2 enables animations to play only for the playable character.  How does it do that?  Scripts?

Elin idle enables animations to play only for a race.  How does it do that?  Scripts?


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#2185
Mud

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Does the Elin idle not achieve the race restriction by using the RacesElin formlist along with the conditions placed on the idle script and the ElinIdle and CustomIdle01 IDLE entries in the ESP?

 

 

The occurrence you're describing sounds like the reason mods that change 0_master.hkx, defaultmale.hkx, etc. are incompatible with FNIS - the tool replaces them with its own, necessitating patches that would roll the changes needed by the other mods into the generated file. However, Fore had this to say on the dance idle:

 


 

 

And yes, there is no need at all to make a patch to add any simple idle. All the other patched mods have added additional functionality, and without my patches those mods could never have worked. PCEA2 is even much more than a patch. A lot of new programming in FNIS to make that all possible.

 

If I'm interpreting that correctly, he's saying a mod that simply makes an actor play a unique standing idle animation when they are a certain race shouldn't need to modify the existing files in any way, so the incompatibility should be resolvable without a patch from him. Which seems to make sense, several other mods have been able to replace a default idle with something else when certain conditions like having a certain keyword are met without needing patches, like Break Undies Plus. Is the mod not correctly using the behavior files generated by the FNIS Modders' tool, maybe? Are you certain the original packaged idlebehavior.hkx is simply a file output by FNIS? It seems like a strange thing to include if all users were supposed to generate one of their own, and stranger still to include it within the BSA.


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#2186
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Reposting.

 

Now, I'm a total neophyte here, but browsing the Elin idle's idlebehavior.hkx, and comparing it with the vanilla Skyrim idlebehavior.hkx converted with HKXCMD, it looks to me like there are in fact changes made to the behaviors - the idlebehavior.hkx included with the Elin idle has added a number of new eventNames at the top, for starters:

                <hkcstring>IdleCustom01</hkcstring>
                <hkcstring>IdleCustom02</hkcstring>
                <hkcstring>IdleCustom03</hkcstring>
                <hkcstring>IdleCustom04</hkcstring>
                <hkcstring>IdleCustom05</hkcstring>
                <hkcstring>IdleCustomBase</hkcstring>
                <hkcstring>IdleCustomAction</hkcstring>
                <hkcstring>IdleCustomDefault</hkcstring>

I think this could be what Fore was referring to. Looking in the ESP, the idle mod seems to be referring to the first of those events here?

 

maybe.jpg

 
 
There are also scores of added lines pointing to the Elin animations, presumably what you were referring to previously when you were saying "references" that used to be there were no longer there. Conversely, I see a mod like Break Undies Plus, which also plays a different standing idle when certain conditions (keywords, in this case) are met, has no need for modifying idlebehavior.hkx. The Animation Event it refers to is found inside FNIS_BreakUndiesPlus_Behavior.hkx. I do not see IdleCustom01 within FNIS_ElinRaceIdle_Behavior.hkx.

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#2187
PsychoMachina

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The Elin idle works by retrieving the race form and when it matches with ElinRace, it searches and matches iCustomIdle which is in idlebehavior.hkx.  The mod does not change any behavior files.  The idlebehavior.hkx that was included with the mod was created using an early version of FNIS that was available at the time and meant to be 'ready to use' or, in other words, 'I did the work for you'.

Of course when FNIS was going through the many incremental updates, I instructed that the user run Generate FNIS for Users to create new and updated files.  The reason the old idlebehavior was in the BSA was simply something I forgot to remove when I advise people to start using the Generator.  Don't loose files override the same file stored in BSAs?  It sounds like the idlebehavior created by the Generator is unable to override the file in the BSA...no?

 

So Fores is saying the Elin idle can be implemented without the need to use any behavior files.  I'll have to look into this.


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#2188
Mud

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Made a small edit. I'm noticing the Anim Event specified in the idle's ESP, IdleCustom01, is not found in the hkx file generated by the FNIS modder tool. Break Undies Plus on the other hand is referencing an event that is specified by its own hkx file. I think the problem is the Elin idle isn't using the FNIS-generated behavior file correctly, as that is where IdleCustom01 or any other Anim Events needed by the mod are supposed to be, not within idlebehavior.hkx. There's also a whole lot of MT_DUMMY lines in the Elin Idle behavior's eventNames. Something not set up right, maybe?

 

 

 

I have a suspicion that FNIS versions prior to 6 were not actually generating a new idlebehavior.hkx, but reading the existing one then outputting a copy of it, creating the impression it was generating references for the mod. Posted a question asking for elaboration on that front.


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#2189
PsychoMachina

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Reposting.

 

Now, I'm a total neophyte here, but browsing the Elin idle's idlebehavior.hkx, and comparing it with the vanilla Skyrim idlebehavior.hkx converted with HKXCMD, it looks to me like there are in fact changes made to the behaviors - the idlebehavior.hkx included with the Elin idle has added a number of new eventNames at the top, for starters:

                <hkcstring>IdleCustom01</hkcstring>
                <hkcstring>IdleCustom02</hkcstring>
                <hkcstring>IdleCustom03</hkcstring>
                <hkcstring>IdleCustom04</hkcstring>
                <hkcstring>IdleCustom05</hkcstring>
                <hkcstring>IdleCustomBase</hkcstring>
                <hkcstring>IdleCustomAction</hkcstring>
                <hkcstring>IdleCustomDefault</hkcstring>

I think this could be what Fore was referring to. Looking in the ESP, the idle mod seems to be referring to the first of those events here?

 

maybe.jpg

 
 
There are also scores of added lines pointing to the Elin animations, presumably what you were referring to previously when you were saying "references" that used to be there were no longer there. Conversely, I see a mod like Break Undies Plus, which also plays a different standing idle when certain conditions (keywords, in this case) are met, has no need for modifying idlebehavior.hkx. The Animation Event it refers to is found inside FNIS_BreakUndiesPlus_Behavior.hkx. I do not see IdleCustom01 within FNIS_ElinRaceIdle_Behavior.hkx.

 

 

The idlebehavior.xml is from the patch, the one I made using the last version of FNIS 5.  Just so you know, it's not the original idlebehavior that was included with the mod.

 

So you are saying, the other mods that adds custom idles do not change the idlebehavior file?  All those events added to idlebehavior and other behavior files (like 0_master.hkx) was done by the Elin idle mod and not by the FNIS Generator?

 

Interesting.

 

 

 

EDIT

Well I'll have to continue this tomorrow or the following day, I have to get ready for work (frakking night shifts).


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#2190
Mud

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I went and converted the HKX currently included in the BSA too. The changes are all still there.

 

At this stage, I'm fairly certain the intended usage of FNIS is for the Modders' tool to create a FNIS_ElinRaceIdle_Behavior.hkx that contains any Anim Events that the mod is supposed to need, and for the mod to then use those events instead of modifying the vanilla ones. Any other mod that received a patch from Fore did so because this functionality was insufficient for their purposes, such as Momo Acrobatic Jump needing new events for jumping in different directions.

 

 

Also another thing, but according to the FNIS Modders' Documentation, the animation folder for the mod should be the name of the mod's ESP, without the .esp extension. Could the names not matching be a problem or was that just for organization's sake? Furthermore and perhaps more importantly, the idle's animation list found in the animations folder also looks nothing like the animation list found within Break Undies Plus - all of its animations have "MT_DUMMY" before the animation name. I think we're supposed to be declaring the Anim Event we need in there.


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#2191
skyramiel

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Can I request a topless version of elin underwear armor from converted vanilla sets?

I'm getting an error when I do it myself in 3ds max. textures are all messed up.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

I'll see what I can do.

 

 

Nevermind, I was able to do it myself. (after a few failed attempts)

Attached Files


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#2192
PsychoMachina

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I went and converted the HKX currently included in the BSA too. The changes are all still there.

 

At this stage, I'm fairly certain the intended usage of FNIS is for the Modders' tool to create a FNIS_ElinRaceIdle_Behavior.hkx that contains any Anim Events that the mod is supposed to need, and for the mod to then use those events instead of modifying the vanilla ones. Any other mod that received a patch from Fore did so because this functionality was insufficient for their purposes, such as Momo Acrobatic Jump needing new events for jumping in different directions.

 

Also another thing, but according to the FNIS Modders' Documentation, the animation folder for the mod should be the name of the mod's ESP, without the .esp extension. Could the names not matching be a problem or was that just for organization's sake? Furthermore and perhaps more importantly, the idle's animation list found in the animations folder also looks nothing like the animation list found within Break Undies Plus - all of its animations have "MT_DUMMY" before the animation name. I think we're supposed to be declaring the Anim Event we need in there.

 

The different folder name did not matter, I tested by naming the idle dance plugin, CustomIdle, along with the folder containing the animations and FNIS list.  The result was the same as when the plugin was named differently than the folder.

 

The animtype for each animation in the list actually starts with 'b' (basic animation).  Have you tried creating the custom behavior file (GenerateFNIS for Modders) after removing 'MT_DUMMY' from the anim list?  You get an error, don't you.

 

I'll have a closer look at PCEA2 and maybe Break Undies to see what I need to do.


Spoiler

Nevermind, I was able to do it myself. (after a few failed attempts)

 

 

Thank you, I'll post an entry in the first post and link to your post.

 

I was able to remove the top, but ran into problems with the base body and then got sidetracked with the Elin idle issue.

 

UPDATE

Posted link to Skyramiel's alternative underwear (mesh replacers) for the Tera Body Converted Vanilla Armor set.

 


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#2193
Mud

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I went and converted the HKX currently included in the BSA too. The changes are all still there.

 

At this stage, I'm fairly certain the intended usage of FNIS is for the Modders' tool to create a FNIS_ElinRaceIdle_Behavior.hkx that contains any Anim Events that the mod is supposed to need, and for the mod to then use those events instead of modifying the vanilla ones. Any other mod that received a patch from Fore did so because this functionality was insufficient for their purposes, such as Momo Acrobatic Jump needing new events for jumping in different directions.

 

Also another thing, but according to the FNIS Modders' Documentation, the animation folder for the mod should be the name of the mod's ESP, without the .esp extension. Could the names not matching be a problem or was that just for organization's sake? Furthermore and perhaps more importantly, the idle's animation list found in the animations folder also looks nothing like the animation list found within Break Undies Plus - all of its animations have "MT_DUMMY" before the animation name. I think we're supposed to be declaring the Anim Event we need in there.

 

The different folder name did not matter, I tested by naming the idle dance plugin, CustomIdle, along with the folder containing the animations and FNIS list.  The result was the same as when the plugin was named differently than the folder.

 

The animtype for each animation in the list actually starts with 'b' (basic animation).  Have you tried creating the custom behavior file (GenerateFNIS for Modders) after removing 'MT_DUMMY' from the anim list?  You get an error, don't you.

 

I'll have a closer look at PCEA2 and maybe Break Undies to see what I need to do.

 

No, I haven't tried messing with the actual files. But what I mean is, instead of "MT_DUMMY" we're supposed to be naming the Anim Events we need in there, for example Break Undies Plus has "b Cover_Cower Cover_Cower.hkx", and the Animation Event tied to its ENF cover animation in the ESP is in fact "Cover_Cower". Similarly, off the top of my head I took a look at Devious Devices Integration, it too uses events defined in its animation list and that of ZAP as well for its IDLE entries.


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#2194
Mookeylama

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reeeeally wanna thanks Psycho and Mud for continuing to try n fix the idle situation. i may not have updated from FNIS 5.5 had i known it'd nerf the Elin idle.

wish i could help. i've learned some over the years but dunno about this. i'd be happy to donate tho! a person's time ain't free.

oh, i had added the ElinIdle.esp into a merge a long time ago, so i had to unpack the bsa and add it as loose files. i ran fnis (pre- 6) tons of times since, and the elin idle always worked til fnis 6. just thought i'd mention it. dunno if relevant


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#2195
PsychoMachina

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<snip>

No, I haven't tried messing with the actual files. But what I mean is, instead of "MT_DUMMY" we're supposed to be naming the Anim Events we need in there, for example Break Undies Plus has "b Cover_Cower Cover_Cower.hkx", and the Animation Event tied to its ENF cover animation in the ESP is in fact "Cover_Cower". Similarly, off the top of my head I took a look at Devious Devices Integration, it too uses events defined in its animation list and that of ZAP as well for its IDLE entries.

 

 

I just renamed the anim folder and animation files to use "ElinIdleDance" then edited the anim list to include what you mentioned,

 

b ElinIdleDance ElinIdleDance_01_Action01.hkx

 

The Generator for Modders tool ran smoothly.  So far, so good.  Thanks.

Now to get the mod to use the custom behavior file created by the generator (modders) instead of idlebehavior.

 

 

reeeeally wanna thanks Psycho and Mud for continuing to try n fix the idle situation. i may not have updated from FNIS 5.5 had i known it'd nerf the Elin idle.

wish i could help. i've learned some over the years but dunno about this. i'd be happy to donate tho! a person's time ain't free.

oh, i had added the ElinIdle.esp into a merge a long time ago, so i had to unpack the bsa and add it as loose files. i ran fnis (pre- 6) tons of times since, and the elin idle always worked til fnis 6. just thought i'd mention it. dunno if relevant

 

Knowing that you and others enjoy the mods provided makes the time and effort worth it. 


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#2196
Mud

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<snip>

No, I haven't tried messing with the actual files. But what I mean is, instead of "MT_DUMMY" we're supposed to be naming the Anim Events we need in there, for example Break Undies Plus has "b Cover_Cower Cover_Cower.hkx", and the Animation Event tied to its ENF cover animation in the ESP is in fact "Cover_Cower". Similarly, off the top of my head I took a look at Devious Devices Integration, it too uses events defined in its animation list and that of ZAP as well for its IDLE entries.

 

 

I just renamed the anim folder and animation files to use "ElinIdleDance" then edited the anim list to include what you mentioned,

 

b ElinIdleDance ElinIdleDance_01_Action01.hkx

 

The Generator for Modders tool ran smoothly.  So far, so good.  Thanks.

Now to get the mod to use the custom behavior file created by the generator (modders) instead of idlebehavior.

 

The problem is, I have no idea what to do from here on out. I know that currently the ESP calls for the IdleCustom01 Anim Event that was added to idlebehavior.hkx, and we want to instead call an event added to the mod's own behavior file - ostensibly "ElinIdleDance" if that's the EventName you're going with. But there's a veritable mountain of animations included in the mod, and I certainly don't see an event or IDLE entry for every single one. How many of those animations are needed for the idle? Are several of those animations being blended together by the behavior file to create the idle? Ideally the whole thing would be contained in a single .hkx...


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#2197
PsychoMachina

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I already reduced the files to 6, during my testing, and I'll have to check how the animations look if reduced to only 2.

 

I did not do any further testing after renaming the files/folder and editing the animation list.  I would say later today I can continue with the testing.


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#2198
Mud

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I should note, the anim lists for the other mods, initially distributed with comments from FNIS, says that each Anim Event needs a unique name across all mods. Which makes me unsure how the idle's working off a single event.


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#2199
PsychoMachina

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I changed the names to match each animations.

 

b ElinIdleDance01 ElinIdleDance_Action01.hkx

b ElinIdleDance02 ElinIdleDance_Action02.hkx

...etc.

 

Checked consistency and FNIS did not show any errors.

 


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#2200
Mookeylama

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will this work for the sway anim? that's the one i use. never tried the dance. does the dance idle use both the sway and dance? i'd use it then lol. but love the sway


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Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: race, Tera, Elin, unp, cbbe, followers, replacers, replacer