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HDT vs. BBP


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So, I feel like I'm missing something.

 

1) I prefer UNP based bodies.

 

2) I like using HDT Hair, like KS Hairdos

 

3) So, I have the HDT Physics Extension installed and it works great with the hair... so I figured I'd move on to the body next.

 

4) I installed the XP32 Maximum Skeleton Extended

 

During the process of installing The Maximum Skeleton Extended, it asked me to select which "rigmap" to use. The note said to use the HDT rigmap if I intended on using HDT physics mod (like the hair mod above?) or there would be problems with the HDT physics. Among the other options was BBP rigmap and some others. 

 

5) I found a body I like that has HDT physics (supposedly): UNP HDT-PE BBP TBBP

 

But it seems to be a combination of HDT and BBP... and thus the confusion starts to sink in.

 

I tried using a UNP-BBP armor mod, but it caused the breast/butt twitching reported by others.

 

So what's the deal here? What am I missing?

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Twitching is caused by A: Your computer is a hamsterwheel and you refuse to acknowledge your computer is a hamsterwheel and installed HDT anyway. If you cannot run Skyrim at 60fps FLAT, period, ALL THE TIME NO MATTER WHAT IS HAPPENING ON SCREEN EVER, HDT will act odd. The more npcs and things you have under HDT, the odder it will act.

 

or B: Your specific xml has collision conflicts with certain bones that cause constant counter bouncing, thus twitch.

 

or C: a combination of the above.

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If you're using HDT and a HDT body, then get opt for TBBP over BBT where you can (when HDT isn't available for whatever armor/mod). as for twitching, a hdt body should be fully capable of handling bbp animations so it's likely one of two things, pc issue (HDT is pretty hardware heavy) or a conflict between bones.

 

To make understanding easier, HDT moves things via physics, the physics effect a pair of bones. BBP does the same thing but moves things via animation and effects a different/ older pair of bones.

 

But as I said earlier, you're best off avoiding BBP armors. Besides, in most cases, newer armors are HDT enabled.

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On a body, ex. UNP HDT-PE BBP TBBP only means it has rigging for the 3 feature levels,

- BBP (1 bone per breast, 1 bone per buttside) rigging is available,

- TBBP (2 bone per breast, 1 bone per buttside) rigging is available,

- HDT-PE (1 bone per breast or 2 bone per breast, 1 bone per buttside, (optional) one bone for the belly) rigging is available.

 

BBP and HDT when the rigmaps get choosen in XPMSE, represent the SYSTEM you gonna use.

BBP is animation file based and are used when you have a BPP\TBBP\HDT-PE body (you can use all 3 of them with XPMSE as skeleton) with BBP\TBBP enabled animations.

HDT is for both havok physics extention (PE) and mesh based physics (SMP), and you need a BPP\TBBP\HDT-PE body for it, a body where it explicite says that it is a HDT compatible body is preferable because some old BBP\TBBP compatible bodies have rigging fuckups, but they still can be used.

 

The rigmaps are because animation based physics and a physics extension can counterfit each other, animations are setting a bone position to a position, physics are using contraints (example for a constaint, Spring, where the bone can move away and com back, or collision boxes).

Why a rigmap for HDT should be choosen when using HDT is simple, when a animation sets a bone to a position which makes it unable to recover with its contraints or just sets it every few seconds, it will look like what most people call "twitching" (most newer hdt xml have that problem far less). That can also cause a reatction on other bones like the bones for hair because now there is a bone that may collide with the hair bones but should not be there, means the hair twitches, too. That can happen regardless if you have a body that has BBP\TBBP\HDT enabled and shows you that it twitches, that is totally skeleton based it does not matter what body you have.

 

When it happens with the HDT rigmap it is mostly because of bad constratints (hdt xml file issue).

 

If you use animation files that have not a counterfitting effect on HDT xmls you can also use the BBP rigmap for XAZ's stuff but you should first test with the HDT rigmap before you try that, because the first solution for me is to tell the idiot who can't read that he should install the HDT rigmap.

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  • 2 weeks later...

If you cannot run Skyrim at 60fps FLAT, period, ALL THE TIME NO MATTER WHAT IS HAPPENING ON SCREEN EVER, HDT will act odd.

That's not the case for me. I run Skyrim at 15(!) FPS with HiAlgoBoost (no stuttering, 2x2 pixel mode) on an AMD 6450 with AMD 3400 APU and HDT works absolutely fine. I use it on my character and follower. Haven't tried with other NPCs. My guess is that when HDT acts weird it's caused by something else.

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That's essentially an instance of "nothing on screen is wrong, so nothing is wrong", also you're running it on two characters, that's not really "running" it in the framework it's designed for.

 

Also since the laws of code aren't really beholden to opinions, it's pretty safe to say while you may be using it in a manner that's not deleterious to you, it's probably not working as intended.

 

Also running an app at 25% of intended throughput is not fine, nor a kind of fine. If you're comfortable with the performance that's great, but you're not experiencing what was designed for from either the mod or the game itself.

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Don't know about you, but HDT works just fine for me at my sub-30fps. Obviously not ideal in many ways, but claiming it's going to be outright "odd" at anything less than 60fps is a little harsh. I haven't seen it acting any differently than i've ever seen in videos.

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That's essentially an instance of "nothing on screen is wrong, so nothing is wrong"

 

It's pretty obvious that when you've used something for 100+ hours and it seems to behave normally, that you'd think it's behaving properly.

 

Of course it's possible that it's only working properly for what I'm using it for (breast and butt physics, and high heels). Perhaps you know of some stuff that might not work properly.

 

also you're running it on two characters, that's not really "running" it in the framework it's designed for.

 

And what would it have been designed for then? It seems to be the case that HDT's function is to expose the physics part of the game engine in such a way that it can be used in mods, which means that the intention seems to be to do whatever you want with it.

 

The reason I'm running it on only two characters is because I only need it for two characters. Why would I try to stick the damned thing on the whole world when I currently have no need for that?

 

Also since the laws of code aren't really beholden to opinions

 

And what would those laws of code be exactly?

 

it's pretty safe to say while you may be using it in a manner that's not deleterious to you, it's probably not working as intended.

 

Well, I get the breast and butt physics I want, so it seems to be doing exactly what it's supposed to.

 

Also running an app at 25% of intended throughput is not fine, nor a kind of fine. If you're comfortable with the performance that's great, but you're not experiencing what was designed for from either the mod or the game itself.

 

PC games are designed to be able to run at variable frame rates because of the widely varying hardware. The low frame rate I get is fine. Thanks to HiAlgoBoost I don't have to run on low settings. What am I supposed to do then? Not play because it's not running as 'intended'?

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  • 2 years later...
On 3/16/2016 at 1:40 AM, 27X said:

That's essentially an instance of "nothing on screen is wrong, so nothing is wrong", also you're running it on two characters, that's not really "running" it in the framework it's designed for.

 

Also since the laws of code aren't really beholden to opinions, it's pretty safe to say while you may be using it in a manner that's not deleterious to you, it's probably not working as intended.

 

Also running an app at 25% of intended throughput is not fine, nor a kind of fine. If you're comfortable with the performance that's great, but you're not experiencing what was designed for from either the mod or the game itself.

People wont accept facts because they know better.

 

On 3/17/2016 at 4:47 AM, Thorham said:

 

It's pretty obvious that when you've used something for 100+ hours and it seems to behave normally, that you'd think it's behaving properly.

 

Of course it's possible that it's only working properly for what I'm using it for (breast and butt physics, and high heels). Perhaps you know of some stuff that might not work properly.

 

 

And what would it have been designed for then? It seems to be the case that HDT's function is to expose the physics part of the game engine in such a way that it can be used in mods, which means that the intention seems to be to do whatever you want with it.

 

The reason I'm running it on only two characters is because I only need it for two characters. Why would I try to stick the damned thing on the whole world when I currently have no need for that?

 

 

And what would those laws of code be exactly?

 

 

Well, I get the breast and butt physics I want, so it seems to be doing exactly what it's supposed to.

 

 

PC games are designed to be able to run at variable frame rates because of the widely varying hardware. The low frame rate I get is fine. Thanks to HiAlgoBoost I don't have to run on low settings. What am I supposed to do then? Not play because it's not running as 'intended'?

Havok physics depends on framerate to calculate results and the results WILL get messed up in case of inconstant fps or lower fps then it's designed for.  Running the physics is done in frames,  just like rendering. This has nothing to do with your opinion about your breast bounce at low fps, it's fact.

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8 hours ago, special1968 said:

Ffirst of all you need a card minimum 4GB. better use 8gb. if you install many hdt mods and textures.careful with textures, u need a good card and minimum 8 RAM. i am using 32 but 16 is fine. the new are cheap to buy now. dont need something special expensive . just VRAM and RAM. and 4 cores of course. i have intel i7. i5 is enough. I have   RX vega 64 now but i had  XFX Radeon RX 580 8GB GTS XXX Edition . its cheap (280 $) and you can play any new game very easy.dont need VEGA  or 1070ti nvidia. i tried  Evil within 2 and Doom. so the card is ok for all games. for skyrim ?? anything on ULTRA HD. 4k 8k textures ++.

but may you have wrong mods or wrong skeleton installed. or incompatible mods.or the wrong load order. be careful when you overwrite something. in most cases is the wrong skeleton. another problem is when you install and uninstall again and again mods.dont do it. and dont  install hd textures when you cant see some difference, you need a good monitor and PC to see some diference. if you have a low (mid) pc install 1k to be sure. or some 2k maximum ( not many of them)
 UNPB MTM Bodies and UNP MTM Bodies BBP  you have to know how to install and what bodys and armors you need.  hdt or just UNP .CBBE is mutch easier. the most easiest is UNP. or UNP hdt.

you need this mods for your body .... select the right option from TroubleMakers Clothing.  read description

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/37900/

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/20227?tab=description

i have on my secong SSD  the same body like you installed. if you want know more details ask me. i  use the same .. (and on my other SSD i have CBBE mods)

 

TroubleMakers Clothing Craftable UNPB - BBPx 

 

or  TroubleMakers Clothing Replacers UNPB - BBPx

next..

 UNPB UNP MTM Bodies HDT-PE patch NMM Installer

overwrite this below

UNPB MTM Bodies and UNP MTM Bodies NMM Installer

 

watch my video in you youtube. all armors    UNPB BBP .  absolute no problems with  my character. as you can see i can use some armors on my followers

(not all ) they  all have   HDT animated pussy. so i installed Dimonized unp hdt first and  Special Body next  . and overwrite all with the modes above.

if you want thel links or somethink ask me here... on in facebook   https://www.facebook.com/keoma1968

NO HDT installed here.  LOL.   I only told you what you need FOR ALL THE hd game ,textures,meshes etc. im testing just mods now. level 11 charakter. THIS IS WHAT YOU NEED FOR UNPB BBP ETC. and some armors here. thats all. im not playng anymore. changing bodys armors, new ,old mods all the time to kill my time,-and finish. !!!!!!!!!!

and change the video setting to 1080p. the most are 60fps. HOLY SHIT

 

 

wtf is this.

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On 6/11/2018 at 9:01 AM, prZ said:

People wont accept facts because they know better.

It's a fact that PC games are designed to run at variable frame rates. Skyrim works fine at lower rates, plain and simple.

 

On 6/11/2018 at 9:01 AM, prZ said:

Havok physics depends on framerate to calculate results and the results WILL get messed up in case of inconstant fps or lower fps then it's designed for.  Running the physics is done in frames,  just like rendering. This has nothing to do with your opinion about your breast bounce at low fps, it's fact.

Havok works perfectly fine at 15 to 18 FPS. I currently have 886 hours in Skyrim and I've NEVER had any problems related to the physics getting screwed up. Same for HDT in my use case, it just works. The only thing that has caused problems is the HDT high heel system, but after getting rid of that I haven't had a single problem that's HDT related.

 

When you have a low end machine like me you just have to try and see how things work, and in the case of Skyrim with HDT it has worked out quite well. Several 100s of hours of using HDT proves it can work properly with 15 to 18 FPS if you don't push it.

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3 hours ago, Thorham said:

It just works

 

Every bethesda Game tied physics to framerate.

Games are not intended to "run" at 15 fps.

Hdt is a prefix for mods done by hydrogen and doesn't mean they have something to do with havok.

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5 hours ago, prZ said:

Every bethesda Game tied physics to framerate. 

Yeah, and? From what I've seen in my 800+ hours of Skyrim the physics engine works the way it's supposed to. It's not as if there are a million physics objects everywhere.

5 hours ago, prZ said:

Games are not intended to "run" at 15 fps.

It doesn't matter what's intended, what does matter is what works. When running under the minimum specs there are basically no guarantees as to whether or not it will work properly, and in this case it does (or I wouldn't have 800+ hours).

 

As for your video, why on earth would I lie about how Skyrim and HDT work on my system? Makes absolutely no sense. So, yeah, it DOES in fact work properly on my system if you don't push it, and applying breast and butt physics to two characters is indeed not pushing it at all.

 

The main things that cause problems on under powered systems are:

 

1. Mods with heavy scripts. Solution: Don't use them.

2. Mods with large textures. Solution: Scale them down with Ordenador (Nexus).

3. Crappy plugins like HDT high heels. Solution: Don't use them (HDT high heels is obsolete anyway).

4. Meshes with high vertex counts. Solution: Find alternatives.

 

Conclusion: Skyrim with HDT works fine on my under powered system, even if the frame rate isn't great. 15 to 18 frames (rock solid I might add) outdoors works perfectly fine here, although I can imagine it would suck if you're playing an archer.

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  • 4 months later...
  • 2 weeks later...

KS Hairdos ?
Did you install HDT BBP Fix (on the mod's page) ?  
PICs in first spoiler - not fix (ass shakes itself)
PIC in Spoiler 2 - fixed (the ass is no longer shaking itself, the chest has physics, collisions with hands,hairstyles on the chest does not affect.)

Spoiler

1.jpg.4c9381e8d1ec4f960087497e91886a3c.jpg2.jpg.98cd5f88eae86fde0f53a81186f752a6.jpg


 

Spoiler

3.jpg.a7c4e9f02cec0c17290d8963c1bf0727.jpg

 

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  • 1 month later...

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