As a spinoff to the nexus alternitive thread .......... (collaborative effort thread)

[Kashiwaba Tomoe]

http://www.loverslab.com/showthread.php?tid=7141 < original thread

 

 

One of the issues described in the nexus alternative thread that people seemed to agree on was the idea of a way to make it easier for people to pool ideas/talent and help each other on mods.

 

So I was thinking (since I think I'm safe in assuming that we ALL want more content) we could start a sort of experimental version of that here and see what can be produced.

 

Here is what I propose:

 

People with modding related skill (or even ideas, or willingness to test) collaborate together and come up with a mod.

 

It doesn't have to be big (and to be honest, a smaller project would be more likely to actually be fully completed) just a collaborative effort. It doesn't even necessarily have to be a single mod, as we could end up with several smaller ideas, and with people working on more than one at once. All that's required is it's done as a collab effort in public.

 

So what do people think ?

 

And any modders/graphics/coding people interested in assisting ?

[Guest]

It's a great idea, but at the moment, I can count the number of active modders with both of my hands. And to make things worse, they are spread out, most of them are modding new vegas while very few work on oblivion/fallout 3. I'm mainly talking about what makes loverslab famous, which are it's sex mods (lovers/sexout mainly).

 

I think that the modders should create several guides and tutorials so that newbies can get into modding a lot easier and feel less intimidated. Think about it. lovers lab has over 50,000 members now, what would happen if 10; 100; or even 1,000 people started to mod and crwate new plugins? This community is known to have TONS of amazing ideas yet most of us lack the capability to actually do something because the task of learning to mod seems too daunting even if it really isn't. Guides are spread out and don't fully pertain to the adult mods. In my opinion, that's what the modders should be doing. Not that your idea is bad, because it's good, but I feel that getting more people involved should be there goal.

Look at some great lovers mods: loversbitch, loversblackmail, playerslave, that companion mod for lovers by captain oblivious, the other mod similar to blackmail, victims, slavetrader and more. All are unfinished and are advancing at a snail's place. Some are completely abandoned. Why? Because the author lost interest. He had too much work on his part and people kept demanding for updates when they do nothing to help. If all of those people were modders, then we'd have SO much more.

 

I'm currently trying to study the basics of scripting and coding as I want to make quests and gameplay features for oblivion and skyrim (when a lovers alternative is created). At any rate, sorry for the wall. I hope my point came across you you guys.

[Kashiwaba Tomoe]

Actually you furthered my point.

 

Modders are sticking to their individual efforts, when if they helped eachother out more, collaborated, things would go a LOT faster I bet.

 

 

Lets take you for example, you're studying the basics. Let's say you teamed up with someone with a basic idea and but without the skill and helped them with it (while teaching them how to do some as well).

 

It's all in the collaboration, screw 'waiting' on someone to be ready, people just team up and do what they can.

 

Of course with all of this the major requirement would be to keep goals realistic.

[Guest Donkey]

Learning from tutorials is great, creating one isn't.. I doubt anyone would fully make one or else they would have been created years ago.

 

It is not just making a tutorial also the audiance should be able to understand what you are trying to teach them. This in itself is work of art..

 

I for one would not have mind having one for lovers with pk when i first started to mod for it. When i saw the work alone on how to get 2000 pages of japanese translated to English i lost interest after page 5.

 

So after that i only made pages for what i will be using next and even then i had to decypher what the japanese comunity was trying to explain. So i could make changes to lovers with pk.

 

Also translating the mods itself gave a better view of how the mods where working. So in all it wasn't explained to me but my own will to learn it the hard way was the cause for animation project and other stuff i been doing.

 

 

[Kashiwaba Tomoe]

Donkey, the issue with tutorials is another thing collaborative effort would assist with.

 

People collaborating means people communicating.

 

And that would likely translate into people teaching, which would no doubt be more effective than tutorials.

[Guest]

Actually you furthered my point.

 

Modders are sticking to their individual efforts' date=' when if they helped eachother out more, collaborated, things would go a LOT faster I bet.

 

 

Lets take you for example, you're studying the basics. Let's say you teamed up with someone with a basic idea and but without the skill and helped them with it (while teaching them how to do some as well).

 

It's all in the collaboration, screw 'waiting' on someone to be ready, people just team up and do what they can.

 

Of course with all of this the major requirement would be to keep goals realistic.

[/quote']

 

I agree, if the modders would collaborate and tackle 1 project at a time, there would be a higher quantity of quality work.

 

In the end it's all about getting people motivated to learn and collaborate with each other. If that happens, then gaming will reach a new level of awesomeness.

 

[Guest Donkey]

I know that is also why i created this: http://www.loverslab.com/showthread.php?tid=282

 

But as you can see there is hardly anyone contributing to it. Even less fully explaining what they are doing and what there scripts are suppose to do.

 

btw Galgat tried colloborating http://www.loverslab.com/showthread.php?tid=2800 When he started this, not much came from it afterwards.

[Kashiwaba Tomoe]

Well a part of the problem is that the forum is a tad cluttered and disorganized, at least for new users.

 

I know when I first came here it took me a bit of time to even FIND anything.

 

Prehaps add a few new boards and subboards to further organize things.

[Guest]

I know that is also why i created this: http://www.loverslab.com/showthread.php?tid=282

 

But as you can see there is hardly anyone contributing to it. Even less fully explaining what they are doing and what there scripts are suppose to do.

 

btw Galgat tried colloborating http://www.loverslab.com/showthread.php?tid=2800 When he started this' date=' not much came from it afterwards.

[/quote']

 

Damn...

 

You should remake that thread and specify that people need to describe the script on what it does, where it came from etc.

Damn it if I knew how to do this I'd do it myself! A general thread that listed the important scripts and what to do and how they used them would be invaluable, but It probably would be tedious to make.

 

I also suggest the creation of a new forum specifically only for modders to collaborate, discuss and suggest ideas and such.The modders themselves would have to encourage teamwork which might be difficult. If only I knew how to mod. I'm learning though, eventually I am going to try this.

[Kashiwaba Tomoe]

Ok an idea for the two of you.

 

We three (and anyone else that cums along) come up with a basic mod premise.

 

Something basic, but different.

 

We collaborate, make it, use THAT as a prime example of why to collaborate.

 

And I bet everyone involved would learn as well.

[Guest Donkey]

I would not mind modders sub board but i really think moderators should keep those who are not modders from bombarding it questions not related to non modders.

 

http://www.loverslab.com/Forum-Tutorials-Guides--33

Here is an example. This is the tutorial section yet what i see is:

Armor conversion questions, Question mass effect 3 to oblivion, help with making player use package, how do people create meshups for skyrim etc..

 

All the real tutorials will be burried in crap. And the sub forum will lose it's purpose.

 

[Guest]

I'm in, I just need a some more time and some guidance on how to script things. This will be the first mod I would be involved in creating. Now we just have to come up with an idea...

[Guest]

I would not mind modders sub board but i really think moderators should keep those who are not modders from bombarding it questions not related to non modders.

 

http://www.loverslab.com/Forum-Tutorials-Guides--33

Here is an example. This is the tutorial section yet what i see is:

Armor conversion questions' date=' Question mass effect 3 to oblivion, help with making player use package, how do people create meshups for skyrim etc..

 

All the real tutorials will be burried in crap. And the sub forum will lose it's purpose.

 

[/quote']

 

Right, only designated users would bave permission to post in that forum.

 

I have another look at that page, if that doesn't help then I'll have to do some internet searching.

[Kashiwaba Tomoe]

I'm in' date=' I just need a some more time and some guidance on how to script things. This will be the first mod I would be involved in creating. Now we just have to come up with an idea...

[/quote']

 

Here's what I propose

 

1- Keep it simple. No new graphical anything, unless someone who does graphics assists

2- Keep it simple. Prehaps start with a single NPC or location (such as a tavern)

 

Here is my idea: Immersion improvement.

 

Have it start when installed (or when starting a new game).

 

When you start, you get a menu where you basically configure your character by picking various options (sorta like some oblivion/FO3 alt start mods work but more in depth).

Everything from basic char creation (if new game) to your background and experience.

 

From there, the characthers starting inventory is adjusted based on the way you describe the characther.

 

Past that, we add a few NPCs to show off the idea of the system, prehaps add a new tavern somewhere or add the NPCs to one.

 

Have dialogue options be alterd by your characthers setup, both vanilla stats and other descriptors you picked during setup.

 

 

[Poontank]

Your proposed mod is a very good idea as a starting point! Something along the lines of 'Inn of Ill Women'?

I'd be happy to contribute NPCs, for example some of the characters I initially created to populate 'Valenwood Improved'.

And I would love to do some graphic stuff for this mod, nothing too fancy though as I'm still at the texturing beginner's stage.

[Kashiwaba Tomoe]

Your proposed mod is a very good idea as a starting point! Something along the lines of 'Inn of Ill Women'?

I'd be happy to contribute NPCs' date=' for example some of the characters I initially created to populate 'Valenwood Improved'.

And I would love to do some graphic stuff for this mod, nothing too fancy though as I'm still at the texturing beginner's stage.

[/quote']

 

Contribution wise I'd be glad to attempt to learn the construction set, and basic scripting, however experience has taught me that I really suck at scripting past the copy+paste/editvalue level (and even then, only after taking a long time to learn it)

 

As for what I CAN contribute, mostly storyboarding, as well as laying out an idea (and generally understanding mostly what is/isnt possible)

 

So graphics guy and design guy, now all we need is someone good with the construction set, unelss PT can do basic CS work.

[Poontank]

I'm still learning, but the most basic things like companion/NPC creation and custom races I've got down so far to make working mods.

A location like a tavern is a perfect training project to expand CS knowledge. In my opinion, the best thing about this project is that communication aspect you mentioned, the collaboration. It will help everyone involved to develop and improve their modding skills.

 

It's different from the mods I'm making for use in my own game as they are tailor-made with my pictures/comics in mind, not really suitable for release, mainly because I'm too lazy to get the necessary permissions. But a mod for the whole community is a completely different world, this is serious business so to speak (compared to my personal small-time stuff). Exciting, informative and instructional.

[Kashiwaba Tomoe]

Plus, if it is (aside from the stat system) primarally text based, it will also be rather simple (once the stat system is complete) to add onto it.

 

And yeah, the simplicity of a tavern is pretty much WHY I suggested it, we just add a door or building somewhere, then have a custom (this no conflicts) worldspace to work with.

 

Here's the basic of the idea so far: (note: in some cases, player can have contradictions between the info here and the vanilla char creation process. That's up to the plaeyr. Also, a number will be semi sexualy based, some more than semi, prehaps an 'adult content off/on' option to start it out)

When you're setting your chars stats (for the mod) you get the following options (list in progress obviously)

species (limited to ones that make sense based on your actual ingame race, IE: human or elf can pick half elf)

gender (automatically based off of ingame gender)

Age (up to player to select)

Appearance (multiple options to pick from, basically is your char attractive or not, and other appearance options from dick/breast size onward)

Vocation (what job you do, further questions determine starting gear, with an option to start out with related skills further devolped, IE: start out with higher gun/blade/magic skill)

Current apperance (based on clothes, etc. Vanilla items we can probally do basic entries on, with the player having to select options to describe the item for the mod to remember)

 

Well, the list can be expanded quite a bit I imagine.

Basically, each option you select gets a variable assigned to it.

 

Then when setting up NPC conversations, the variables can be used to have truly relevent conversation options.

 

Say you have a drunk guy in a bar looking to get laid.

 

Female of decent or better looks enters, his conversation will be hitting on her.

If she's of lower level looks, then not so much.

 

Bully type looking for a barfight.

PlayerChar with high level gear is there, dude is less likely to start something.

If the gear is on a physically small characther, more likely. The variables will add up, with a random chance factor.

 

well, I think you get the basic idea.

 

Once the basic details are worked out for the stat system and setting it up, it'll mostly be just adding NPCs, then doing dialouge trees for them (IE: multiple possible ways to respond, like a RPG SHOULD be done)

[Poontank]

This interesting dialogue system reminds me of the one found in Skyrim (with a few NPCs) where you can select multiple options like intimidation, brawling or persuasion. Certainly better and more immersive than a single option 'Rumours'. But even Skyrim just checks stat variables to calculate the likely success of a persuasion as far as I know. NPCs' behaviour reacting to the player character's age, looks and equipment is so much better and more natural! It could even be used the other way around, in the form of disguises to appear less intimidating, provoking certain reactions from an NPC. Wearing poor lowerclass clothes makes people pity you and buy you drinks and so on.

 

In any case, you have already a catalogue of very good ideas there! Apparently you've thoroughly thought this through before.

[Kashiwaba Tomoe]

This interesting dialogue system reminds me of the one found in Skyrim

 

I was going more for the Fallout series.

 

The real series, not the Bethesda spinoff.

 

Wearing poor lowerclass clothes makes people pity you and buy you drinks and so on.

Good looking female, upper class clothes, at bar.

Really drunk/desperate/dumb patron will hit on her anyway.

She wears rags instead, gets a 'so how much for an hour' type response.

 

Also, prehaps add in some memory, IE: NPC 'sees' you in one garb, remembers for a period of time, modified by infamy/fame (shame there isn't a local reputation system, would make more sense)

 

In any case, you have already a catalogue of very good ideas there! Apparently you've thoroughly thought this through before.

 

Not really, mostly just copying stuff Fallout 1/2 did, improving a tad.

 

[Guest]

Quick question here, what game are we modding? I'm a bit confused. It seems like we're modding oblivion, but I'm not entirely sure XD

However, I'd suggest oblivion since lovers with pk is the most developed of any other sex system as well as with general mods (although sexout is catching up) and because oblivion has very few people working on it.

 

In any case, I've been searching around for scripting tutorials and the ones at the oblivion construction kit wiki are great. I highly recommend them. I'm working on the basics and it's starting to make sense. While I'm only barely able to script using oblivion.esm resources progress is being made. Later on I'll have to learn OBSE and how to create new scripts and quests from mod scripts. But that'll happen in time.

[Kashiwaba Tomoe]

To be honest I'm fine with either, but would prefer Oblivion, because if I was doing a FO3 mod I'd feel compelled to turn it into a total overhaul, and make it actually LOOK like Fallout (IE: bethesda basically scrapped 90% of the items/weapons of Fallout, made their own, which looked like crap)

[Guest]

Oblivion it is then

 

 

[Kashiwaba Tomoe]

Posting mod as an example (it's also one of my all time favorite alt start mods.)

 

http://tes.nexusmods.com/downloads/file.php?id=11495

 

This alt start mod is KINDA how I'd say we should do the start for the mod (just have an option for regular or alt start), insofar as the questionaire it has and what not.

 

For our mod, I'm thinking we have the PC start in a bar/inn in some harbor town, having survived a shipwreck (thus explaining relative lack of kit).

 

Not only gives a good alt start option, but starts the player in the middle of the showcase location of the project.

 

 

Here's a proposal for the start:

White room, VERY well lit to daytime standards (unlike how bethesda always has char creation done in the dark past few games) and you do start of char creation (IE: pick looks/race/etc)

Have a scroll to click ok, you fill out the description of the characther using all the stats I mentioned previously.

 

When done, you click on a bed, and appear in the mod bar or the starting dungeon based on selection.

If you picked bar, you wake up by a spare bed with a healer welcoming you back to life, and find out the bar is currently locked up because of a hurricane outside.

About twelve hours later the storm ends (IE: enough time to force some interaction)

 

The players skills and stats picked thru the mod determine your starting inventory (slightly randomized, prehaps, if possible) which should match the skills/background of the chaacther. If you chose the char to be advanced in certain areas, the skill gets a bonus and/or higher leveled gear (IE: start out with a silver/elvin weapon, or a better staff, etc)

[Poontank]

Good concept! Today I will start setting up a basic location as the tavern, I need to read a few tutorials for that. But populating the place with NPCs is easy, this will take not much time at all. Later on, decorating the rooms, maybe with a few custom items, is going to be the real fun.

 

The characters will be generic NPCs at first - so what kind of characters should be in there? A barkeep, tavern wenches, the mentioned healer and several guests? Perhaps a dog for interesting 'interaction'? Or even extravagant stuff like a basement with some creatures in cells?