OBMM Launcher firing a network connection

[QuiteTheTail]

Hi guys.

Why in the world my desktop link to ("...\OblivionModManager.exe" -launch) is attempting to connect to the Internet? The OS is Windows7, I have used the Windows "error reporting" feature upon a game crash (for the first time ever, perhaps, but I doubt it will be useful) and the link to Oblivion is now among the "Games" section of the start menu. Is it just the usual MS "invasive" attitude, or am I victim of a trojan?

 

P.S.

My Oblivion version is not from Steam, is the localized Collector's Edition.

[varenne]

First, I'm using version v1.1.12, I still use the .Net version even though I have Win7 Ultimate, 64-bit O/S. Never seen a need to update if there even is one. My icon also does not include the -launch switch you have.

 

Are you 100% sure it is trying to access the Internet and not just your Local Network?

 

Are there permissions set for it in your Windows Firewall, or which ever firewall product you use?

 

I went through the Help and FAQ and did not see an auto update feature for my version, nor anything that indicates a need to access the Internet. Does your version have that feature?

[fejeena]

Sometimes my desktop Oblivion shortcut (obse_loader.exe) try to connect hte internet.

 

I double click my Oblivion shortcut, normally I see a secound a small window before it closes and the full screen windows opens.

But sometimes it stucks and the small window does not disapear and Oblivion does not starts.

I close the small window and some seconds later my internet dial window opens ( I always play with shut off internet. Inertnet connection is only active when I use the net )

I close the internet window and double click my Oblivion shortcut again and Oblivion starts fine.

 

I once searched the error ( by checking which program/process is active while the interwindow opens) It was a window process....something with background loading or play files ( the Bethesda start windows ) and if this process is busy or don't start right it checks for help in the net . ( shit I do not remember the process name. I was happy it was no virus or trojan.)

 

I use Win7 64bit and Oblivion disc version ( no fucking steam )

[QuiteTheTail]

Sometimes my desktop Oblivion shortcut (obse_loader.exe) try to connect hte internet.

 

I double click my Oblivion shortcut, normally I see a secound a small window before it closes and the full screen windows opens.

But sometimes it stucks and the small window does not disapear and Oblivion does not starts.

I close the small window and some seconds later my internet dial window opens ( I always play with shut off internet. Inertnet connection is only active when I use the net )

I close the internet window and double click my Oblivion shortcut again and Oblivion starts fine.

 

I once searched the error ( by checking which program/process is active while the interwindow opens) It was a window process....something with background loading or play files ( the Bethesda start windows ) and if this process is busy or don't start right it checks for help in the net . ( shit I do not remember the process name. I was happy it was no virus or trojan.)

 

I use Win7 64bit and Oblivion disc version ( no fucking steam )

Same behavior here. I'm glad to hear it's not a virus/trojan. In fact, it happens only the first time I launch the shortcut, and only if the connection is inactive. When I close the connection dialog and launch it again, the game starts normally, without asking for a connection. It never happened on Windows XP.

 

First, I'm using version v1.1.12, I still use the .Net version even though I have Win7 Ultimate, 64-bit O/S. Never seen a need to update if there even is one. My icon also does not include the -launch switch you have.

 

Are you 100% sure it is trying to access the Internet and not just your Local Network?

 

Are there permissions set for it in your Windows Firewall, or which ever firewall product you use?

 

I went through the Help and FAQ and did not see an auto update feature for my version, nor anything that indicates a need to access the Internet. Does your version have that feature?

I'm using the same version (1.1.2 by Timeslip) and Win7 Ultimate 64bit. No update checks that I know of. As for Windows firewall, the only exceptions atm are a couple of windows services ("Core Networking" and "Network Discovery") and my browser program. I have tried running netstat /a from the console, but I saw nothing strange or suspicious there. A tool to identify the program/service asking for connection would be useful (a third-party firewall, I think).

Can you suggest one (possibly freeware or - better - open source)? I have tested some in the past. Some I just didn't like (Komodo), others are no more around (Sygate, which I had been using in the old Win98 days).

[varenne]

As long as there are no unknown entries in your Windows fire wall you should be okay. For a deeper dive I use the following. The idea is to find the process, then the program making the Internet request, just like fejeena states above..

 

I typically start with TCPView for Windows, by Mark Russinovich. Very basic but tells you what you'd need to know.

 

 

Introduction

TCPView is a Windows program that will show you detailed listings of all TCP and UDP endpoints on your system, including the local and remote addresses and state of TCP connections. On Windows Server 2008, Vista, and XP, TCPView also reports the name of the process that owns the endpoint. TCPView provides a more informative and conveniently presented subset of the Netstat program that ships with Windows. The TCPView download includes Tcpvcon, a command-line version with the same functionality.

 

 

 

Something with a bit more would be CurrPorts

 

 

CurrPorts is network monitoring software that displays the list of all currently opened TCP/IP and UDP ports on your local computer. For each port in the list, information about the process that opened the port is also displayed, including the process name, full path of the process, version information of the process (product name, file description, and so on), the time that the process was created, and the user that created it.
In addition, CurrPorts allows you to close unwanted TCP connections, kill the process that opened the ports, and save the TCP/UDP ports information to HTML file , XML file, or to tab-delimited text file.
CurrPorts also automatically mark with pink color suspicious TCP/UDP ports owned by unidentified applications (Applications without version information and icons)

 

 

 

And for reviewing connections graphically I have used VisualRoute Lite in the past, but really all you need is in either of the above two. Once you have identified the offending process and program you can block it in your firewall settings or remove it altogether. 

 

Some VisualRoute Alternatives I use Fing, among others on my Android smart phone for various WiFi and network related stuff.

 

I use the feature in CCleaner Tools | Startup to turn off some of the more annoying auto updates for some applications.

 

 

 

 

 

[QuiteTheTail]

Thanks for the useful tips, varenne.

I will try some of those tools and report back whatever I find.

[QuiteTheTail]

Small update.

This "couldn't inject .dll" error message is widely known but it seems no one has been able to find a solution so far.

Some claim that "Run as Administrator" (OBSE? OBMM? I've tried both, to no avail) should solve the problem, others are hinting at the Windows Game Explorer feature and suggest to remove an entire registry key. None of these methods worked for me.

There is nothing unusual in the Task Manager window (conhost.exe is a legitimate process connected to cmd.exe).
I guess I will just close the damn console window and restart obse_loader.exe each time I need to start the game.
So tiresome.

 

EDIT

Of corse another possible solution would be allowing outbound access to OBMM in a firewall rule.

I didn't mention it before because I feel it doesn't make sense, and tbh I really don't like the idea.

[movomo]

Maybe it's trying to update your boss master list. Or maybe it has something to do with steam.

[varenne]

Maybe it's trying to update your boss master list. Or maybe it has something to do with steam.

 

I don't recall BOSS masterlist ever getting updated via OBSE or OBMM. And QuiteTheTail noted at the top it is not a Steam install or setup.

 

I find it weird that in all the years of having played Oblivion on Win XP first and now 7, that I've never had this issue. Yes, I see the momentary console window, but then it just opens Oblivion.

 

What is your Security settings for the Oblivion.lnk? I have System set to Allow all except Special, same for Administrators. I then have myself assigned to Special and nothing else, and a fourth called INTERACTIVE set with both Read & execute and Read and nothing else.

[fejeena]

After my Windows 7 new installation last weekend the conhost process/bug is gone.

But now every time I start Oblivion the first small black window ( before the monitor switched to full screen ) closes after 20 to 30 seconds. If such a thing happened with my old Windows 7 installation I always got the conhost process/bug ( It tried to connect the internet )

But now Oblivion always starts.

I usually close the small black window and start Oblivion again, then it starts normal , the small window closes after less than one second.

 

Maybe it is the Anti-virus software. ( blocks or delays a Oblivion process until the error occurs and conhost tries to connect the internet )

My Construction Set error appeared again after I installed OBSE and CSE and started the CS with obse_loader.exe. I do not know what was the reason this time, OBSE loader or CSE, I set the whole Oblivion folder to the AVG "ignore list"

No more error messages, game and CSE works fine, but the Game start delay. I can live with that.

 

Or it's the stupid Windows 7

I had another "bug"

My old Win 7 installation: I unpacked TES4Gecko, started it with the TES4Gecko.jar and it worked.

My new Win 7 installation: I unpacked TES4Gecko, tried to start it..... First it did not found java ( javaw.exe ), after I fixed the path it did not found the Oblivion installation. I had to manually add a entry in the registry.

Windows: never boring! Always new surprises!

 

[Fienyx]

Right? And you don't even need to install a new version. Get different results by doing the exact same thing that normally works.

[varenne]

@ fejeena

Yes, there is a rather long delay with those console windows. I get a medium size one first, center screen, followed by a much smaller one upper left corner of screen, then Oblivion starts. It takes the longest when I start it for the first time after booting up Windows 7, maybe 20 secs. The all other boot ups of Oblivion occur in 5 to 6 secs. 

 

You may be right as far as the antivirus interfering. It may be delaying it long enough to cause a fit with Windows.

 

TES4Gecko

If I remember correctly, TES4Gecko will only work with an older version of javaw.exe. My setup is as follows:

Target location: SysWOW64

Target: C:\Windows\SysWOW64\javaw.exe -Xmx1200m -jar "C:\Tmp\TES4Gecko.jar"

Start in: C:\Tmp

[DogOnPorch]

This time-out happens to me if I'm disconnected from the internet. I always thought it was something to do with NET framework.

 

A DOS window opens saying failure to inject dll. Second time always works...COM surrogate turns on.

[fejeena]

Yep first the big center screen , then the small upper left corner. The first is the one which stays for 20-30 seconds. But not only the first time after booting windows. If I quit the game and use some other tools, games or programs and then start Oblivion it takes so long again. If I close the window and start Oblivion again I can barely see the windows because they are so fast.

 

And Gecko: with my old Win7 installation Gecko found java without enter the path. But the Java path was easy to add... but find out why Gecko did not found Oblivion was has time consuming.

Here the best guide that I found ( post 5 or 7 )

https://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/319618-tes4gecko-wont-load/

 

...TES4Gecko will only work with an older version of javaw.exe....

Maybe that's the reason. With my old Win7 I never uninstalled java, I always updated it ...perhaps an old entry was still at the right place.

With old and new Win7 installation java and Gecko was not in C:\

My path is D:\Programme\Java\bin\javaw.exe -Xmx1200m -jar "E:\OblivionTools\TES4Gecko\TES4Gecko.jar"

[varenne]

For both the Oblivion and OBSE exes, I messed around with different compatibility modes (Win XP update 2 & 3, explicitly set for Win 7) briefly today and it was actually worse. For me the default of off yields the best boot times consistently.

[QuiteTheTail]

From my own experience, one of the main problems with Java software is this: when they update the jvm they care very little about backwards compatibility. The authors should test and in the event rewrite and recompile their code with each new version. The java API is dotted with deprecated methods. In this particular case, the only solution would be a new release of TESGecko.

 

@ varenne

As soon as I check the link properties, I'll let you know (not using Win7 atm).

[fejeena]

TES4Gecko works with Win7.

Only problem is that it does not automatically finds the right path.( not java and not Oblivion) But with manually add the right path and Oblivion registry entrie it works. ( and AVG does not  block it ! I used Gecko yesterday )

[varenne]

Yes, the point that QuiteTheTail was making is quite valid. Java upgrades are NOT backwards compatible with older programs created with older version, where something like Python and programs that use older versions is. It's all in the way 'THEY' are approaching Java development and one main reason I don't support anything Java related any more.

 

Use it yes and have had to setup and install multiple instances of it (in update inaccessible locations) just so I can use some of my older programs. It is the Java updates that will break backwards compatibility by the way, in case you haven't discovered it already, and not just Oblivion related tools but other older apps as well.

 

The only viable solution, if you use older apps like I do is to 'trick' your system and have multiple instances of Java old and new. Odds of TES4Gecko being updated are slim and none.

 

 

[QuiteTheTail]

 

I have System set to Allow all except Special, same for Administrators. I then have myself assigned to Special and nothing else, and a fourth called INTERACTIVE set with both Read & execute and Read and nothing else.

 

Looking at the Security tab in the link properties, my personal account have the same rights as the System user and the Administrators group (Allow to all except Special). Can't remember if it was initially set this way, this is more likely the result of my attempts to fix the problem running OBMM Launcher as administrator.

I'll try setting Allow only to Special as a last attempt, and if nothing changes I'll just forget about it. It isn't much of a problem after all, as far as it's a common issue and not something more serious as I initially thought.

 

 

True, different versions of the java virtual machine can be installed on the same system.

AND TESGecko works on Windows 7... It matters little to me, however, I simply can't get the hang of it. Last time I tried to create a mod patch was a complete disaster.

[varenne]

Yeah, TESGecko is one those tricky little tools that is very powerful once you learn how to use all of the features, but hard to learn all of it's capabilities. I've used it predominantly to remove Master file references on ESPs, merging, and cleaning plugins in extreme situations when TES4Edit doesn't achieve what I'm after. (Years ago I delved into some of the more obscure features, when trying to alter some MODs, but have since then forgotten most of that. Just not that motivated any more to go that far with MODs)

 

My best possible educated guess is there is some sort of time delay occurring with this DLL injection, which could be related to memory timing also and/or the frontside bus of the CPU. When it exceeds a certain point it throws the Windows error, but seems to be only experienced by a small subset of players. Could be partly affected by other processes initiating their running at boot up. Even with a fairly decent mid range system (i7 and 32GB of 2nd highest RAM speed for this system; 2.4GHz)  I experience timing issues at boot up from time to time. (Lately it's been my crappy XFX AMD R7 that annoys me the most.)

 

Like you say, it really is just a minor annoyance. I don't feel it is a breach of security, just a resulting flaw for some for having to use DLL injection. If it were I think by now others would be screaming about it.

[QuiteTheTail]

It could be anything. And the .NET implementation chosen by Timeslip makes things worse (I lost count of the .NET versions I have installed, although they are definitely independent). I have tried also reinstalling OBMM v1.12, and setting the folder permission for "C:\Games\Bethesda Softworks\Oblivion" to Full Control for the Users group, but the .dll injection error is still there. Bah...

 

Slow hardware, you say? Sounds surprising to this one (popular khajiit saying).

Besides, I'm sure the usual boot up delay can be ruled out. I've run my tests under these conditions:

- PC restarted and "warmed up"

- Network connection disabled

 

The funny thing is, the error appears only at the first attempt. After that, Oblivion will start without complaining, until the next system reboot.

[varenne]

Actually slow timing, which can be affected by hardware or software settings or a combo of the two.

 

Have you tried setting up the process or processes initiated when starting Oblivion (I forget what they are off the top of my head) to Auto vs. Manual? Maybe go though each one and see if it has an effect. Affinity and priority may also have an effect.

 

With my current PC build and newer games, I had to muck around for hours and hours to get the processor clock, FSB, memory timing and additional vid card settings all playing nice together. I learned (decades ago) to always start with hardware and try to locate my best optimization point, then work on software/application tweaks and optimization. You could do it the opposite way of course; software opto first and then hardware but I've always felt it best to get what the software is running on (physical hardware) stable or optimized first.

 

Regarding OBMM v1.12 specifically, did you install the 64 or 32 bit version. If 64 you also need to install the 32 bit along side it, per the Help. I'm pretty sure I'm using just the 32-bit version only.

 

One other thing I noted today is under Advanced Properties for OblivionModManager.exe, there is Run in separate memory space ticked but greyed out. I don't recall ever mucking with that setting, so it may be something selected at installation.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[fejeena]

64 bit ? There is only one Oblivion Modmanager version

http://www.nexusmods.com/oblivion/mods/2097/? I use the obmm_1_1_12 full manual  version

 

NET framework: only one version ( no 64 or 32 bit versions ) I only have the 4.6.1 version  and the german language  Patch 4.6.1. No older version installed.

 

Visual C++ : there are 64 and 32 bit versions .I have both versions ( x64 and x86) started with the old 2010 versions ...up to 2015 versions. But net framework you don't need for OBMM but for CSE.

 

And in AVG I set the whole Oblivion folder to the exception list.

 

At the moment all works. Oblivion with OBSE, CSE 51, OBMM  all in the Oblivon folder. Not in the Oblivion folder: TES4Edit, Gecko, NifSkope, MeshRigger, Seam Mender, Convert Clothing, Make Lattice ( other tools from gerra6 KG tools I have not used yet )

----------

You can try the TES mm

http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/5010/?

[QuiteTheTail]

Look at you, what a helpful bunch...

I'm not an expert when it comes to advanced hardware settings (to be changed from the BIOS, I guess) and neither I know for sure the processes active at Oblivion startup, but I'll do my best to make good use of those infos. About TES MM, I've been tempted to use it in the past, but never had a real need to leave OBMM. This may be just the opportunity to migrate.

 

EDIT

Anyway, now I regret blaming OBMM for the issue. This is definitely a problem with obse_loader.exe

 

This is the content of a similar logfile (I can't post mine cause it was overwritten at the next successful launch, and I'm to lazy to restart my computer and network connection right now). I got it from this post (external link).

 

 

 

obse_loader.log:
crc = 3E51C65C
dll = D:\Oblivion\Oblivion\obse_1_2_416.dll
hookBase = 001B0000
loadLibraryAAddr = 7D4D0DC0
Process::InstallHook: waiting for thread = WAIT_TIMEOUT
Couldn't inject dll.
terminating oblivion process

 

 

 

Someone at the OBSE team should look into this, I think.

 

Other things I've tried, with no luck:

- Running obse_loader in compatibility mode for previous versions of windows

- turning on Data Execution Prevention for all programs and services and adding obse_loader.exe to the exception list

- adding the -notimeout swith to the shortcut.

 

The second option is not viable, though, I receive the message "This program must run with data execution protection (DEP) enabled.  You cannot turn off DEP for this program".

[varenne]

@ fejeena - 32-bit vs. 64-bit I was going by the stated help text, not actually researching versions available.

 

Someone at the OBSE team should look into this, I think.

 

Doubt that'll happen any time soon, if ever. This is a decade old game now.

 

And yeah, I kind of figured it is OBSE and not OBMM related, BUT if using OBMM it does record load order and placement of MODs, which is used when booting Oblivion so didn't hurt to review it too.

 

I've never mucked around with DEP.

 

And the processes/threads you want to identify are what is being called/initiated by OBSE. Any of those tools I mentioned earlier in the thread would be able to do that. Then compare what occurs (or doesn't) after a fresh boot vs. already booted and Oblivion already booted once. I would assume something should be different; like that process OBSE wants to use/access already running. Then once you identify the process/thread that OBSE wants to start, but cannot try changing affinity and/or priority, or auto boot at startup, vs. manual and see if it helps.