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Even actor heights not working? + lip syncing/facial expression bonus question.

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Quick question, i'm not entirely sure that the 'even actor heights' toggle is working in Sexlab. My character is 1.05 tall, and my follower is quite short, possibly 0.95. I like this... but it doesn't seem to play nice with the animations lining up. I've toggled even heights on, but there still seems to be some difference height - is this normal, or should they be exactly the same size with this on? I'd prefer them to have different heights, but the animations always seem slightly off, and it's a bit of a pain to realign everytime... and i'm not sure messing with the alignments in the MCM menu is a good thing.


Could the fact my characters height has been altered through Racemenu affect this? Does it conflict with another option, theres one above it that i untoggled about racial/gender settings but it didn't make a difference? Or does the fact i have a separate mod - SIZE DOES MATTER (which restricts NPCs from rescaling when in various idle animations like leaning against a wall) - potentially interfere in any way? OR am i simply going insane, and this is how it's supposed to be, but the animations never quite line up perfectly anyway due to bodyshapes and what not. 


Also, bonus question, one i asked before but never heard an answer for - did the lip syncing used to work with facial expressions? I could have sworn they both worked together before, but now, using 1.59c it seems that it's one or the other. So now I'm using just facial expressions, but there's something a little unnerving about the totally still faces... still less creepy than no expression, or that weird jittering jaw glitch if both are selected... But If i'm not going mad, is there a fix to get them to work in harmony? If it was the case, was it something that broke that'll later be patched? Or was it a deliberate decision?



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I always have had animate faces and lib-sync  activated at the same time and so far I do no remember there being any problems not working.... will make a test to see if is. remeber though if you are in free camera mod it does not play lib-sync or facial animations other then what Phemone it using like Happy, Sad and the others.


as for even for even charactor height it seems to both char are reducing / adding height depending on what is needed. did yo recently update you skeleton ?

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Hmm well... report back please! It could be that you have an older version of Sexlab? I'm not 100%, but i believe i used to have both checked too, until i updated from 1.59 to 1.59c... at which point shit went south. In the MCM menu, it specifically says pick one or the other, but i can't remember if it did before. I might downgrade again to check, but it's a bit of hassle. IMO it does take quite a bit away from the immersion only having one or the other now. Interesting about the free camera mode, i didn't know that. Do you know the reason for why this happens?


And no, i have been using the same skeleton for a while now. I believe its the XPMS Extended skeleton. However, i did just switch over from an average female to a tall male character so perhaps i'm hyper aware of the height differences. I'm fairly certain their heights aren't being evened out... i feel like my character is still taller than her, and as a result, animations are often slightly out. I rarely have an animation playing that doesn't need a bunch of alignment adjustments before they're aligned half right. I need to go back and do some more testing frankly, maybe it's my eyes playing tricks on me. I'll try disabling the Size Doesn't Matter just incase and seeing if reducing my characters height in Racemenu affects anything, although that'd be a shame.

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arh that may be the problem the newest version of RaceMenu locks the charactors height in place... I believe that might be the reason for what you see


was refering to this


"However, i did just switch over from an average female to a tall male character so perhaps i'm hyper aware of the height differences. I'm fairly certain their heights aren't being evened out... i feel like my character is still taller than her, and as a result, animations are often slightly out."



::EDIT:: if it presist perhaps we could ask expired6978  about it

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Argh indeed if that's the case! I'll double check my Racemenu version, i may still be on the version before the very latest one. If it is Racemenu locking the heights in place, perhaps there's some way for Sexlab to override it... but i have no idea, i'm practically computer illiterate :) I'll still check out the other variables and report back in a few hours. If we can narrow it down to Racemenu, then i'm surprised more people haven't said anything as i'd imagine Racemenu and Sexlab are a pretty popular combo here. Also i think it'd definitely be worth asking expired6978 about it, no harm in asking, but he may well have bigger fish to fry! If Racemenu is the culprit, then i suppose there's always the option to downgrade versions (which might cause issues..) or simply make my character average height again. I can't think of anything else.


Would be great if you could double check on the facial animation/lip sync problem when you get the time though!Thanks dude ^^

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if I remember what expired6978 said on Nexus. it should only happen if you have made a char and the use the console command "ShowRaceMenu" to change the charactors height or gender.


as for the lib-sync and facial expression it workes perfectly for me I am using Selab Framework 1.59c so long as I do not uses free camera it players as it should and as soon as you return to 3 person is playes again :)


::EDIT:: just a couple of sex runs to check the height ajustment there no trouble there as far as I can see but it is most noticable if it is between two or more form diffirent races like a nord and a elf / beast  I could see the ajustemt when I got abused by 3 bandit and use Sexlab Matchmaker to make it afoursome

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As for avoid making to many of the animation adjusments your self Apropos seem to be able to make them. after I have install that mod many of the aligments seems to doit them self ;)


::EDIT:: I have only resently went over to RaceMenu I used to use ECE so perhaps I have not notice the lack of height adjustment it it is lacking I will create a female char today that is quit low and see what happes need her for some testing so it is no trouble ;)

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As for avoid making to many of the animation adjusments your self Apropos seem to be able to make them. after I have install that mod many of the aligments seems to doit them self ;)


::EDIT:: I have only resently went over to RaceMenu I used to use ECE so perhaps I have not notice the lack of height adjustment it it is lacking I will create a female char today that is quit low and see what happes need her for some testing so it is no trouble ;)


Hey, thanks for your help man! Still not solved mind you, but i really appreciate you taking the time to try and help :)


So, i just tried some super basic testing. Can confirm that heights aren't being evened out, even with the option selected. I set my characters height to GIANT size, and needless to say, he stayed a giant once the animations began xD So i guess it probably is Racemenu causing this. IIRC, i was having some CTD issues when trying to create my character with the opening character creation screen. So i think i made him entirely using 'showracemenu', including his custom height. And i guess if your information is totally true, then i'm kind of stuck with it unless i make him average height. Even then, if his height was default 1.00, how can i be sure that my follower will be height adjusted too? It doesn't seem like she is now. And i'm pretty sure she is below 1.00 in height... Anyway, i didn't try removing Size Does Matter mod. I may do, but i don't think it's the problem. Hmmm... not sure if there's a way to keep my characters height and have him even out in animations then. Might try a mod like this but perhaps it's too late. Even if i reverted my character back to 1.00 with 'showracemenu' and then increased his height with that mod, maybe Racemenu will still override. IDK... guess i'll go test again.


Also, regarding the lip syncing... i tried turning both on again, and i get the weird bug i had before. When the character moans, the lower jaw jitters/chatters up and down very quickly in a creepy and unnatural way. That was in 3rd, 1st and Immersive 1st person mode. In your game, when your characters react to the lip syncing animation with expressions enabled, is the mouth movement normal and natural? If it is... then that's confusing as we're using the same build. I wonder what could be causing that.... Perhaps i need to rebuild and clean, or reset the expressions or something. After posting about this in the official thread, i was told to disable one or the other, like it was a known bug/feature. The way they replied to me, made it sound like they weren't supposed to work together anymore! So i'll be super miffed if yours is working perfectly with both... Anyway, sorry for rambling and writing so much, sort of thinking out loud i suppose :)


EDIT: So i may have made progress with the heights! I installed the mod above, Player Size Adjuster. I set my height to 1.00 in Racemenu using 'showracemenu' and then opened the MCM and set my height back to 1.07 with the new mod. I only did one very brief test, but it appears that the actors heights were totally even! Looks kind of weird actually after all that, seeing them the same size xD But the animations all seemed to work better from what i saw. More testing is needed. I don't know whether the Sexlab command to 'even actor heights' is truly being used, or whether it's some weird Racemenu thing where my character will revert to whatever height i set there. Need to do more testing with NPCs of varying heights i think... 


Now its just the lip syncing to sort out. Also what is this Apropos you mention? I've vaguely heard of it, but after a quick search here, it seems that it's just a mod that describes the scenes in text. How would this affect the animations or does it have multiple features? I'm always open to adding more mods!

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it is no problem and I am only happy to help :)

crash on the creation menu no never had any trouble with that neither on ECE either.... what have you done to deserve that ? too many hair mods ? or pre-cache killer (if this one is install that is also intergrated in the new RaceMenu and need to be removed before install the new one). perhaps uninstall the Skeleton and then reinstall it again and have it overide everything.


as for the jitters/chatter I do not think I have encountered anythin that could be discribed as that though some moans comes close (using calm male voice for male char and exitable for females). Cleaning the Framework could work but there is a option to only clean expression in it  so you would not lose your animation adjustments :) Personly I have never encountered any trouble by having both enabled perhaps I am have a bit of luck. or perhaps I have never seen how lip-sync only would look like or if it would make a diffirence.


as for "Height Adjusted Races with True Giants" mod I think only expired6978 can answer that I have never used it... fairly new to modding my self atleast when it comes to Skyrim ;)

how ever you need to remember the warning on the mod site though ;)

DO NOT use the "showracemenu" command to change your race or the skeleton's first person height will get messed up."

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okay tested it with 3 new charactors with XP32 Maximum Skeleton Extended 2.14 and RaceMenu v2-9-6-29624-2-9-6


1) one female height 0.75 no even out  even if togglen on or off.

2) 1 male char breton 1.50 no even out even when when even hieght is toggle on or off

3) female custom race Balumont 1.25  no even out even when even height are toggle on or off.


I know for sure it used to work when I use ECE so perhaps it is a bug with RaceMenu



just went back to ECE for some reason it does work in that one so it is not the Framework that does not work. I use this skeleton with ECE XP32 Maximum Skeleton Extended 2.06.


so it could still be both the new skeletin or RaceMenu.

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Apropos is multi in that it creates atmospher when having sex.


adds wear and tear if you fuck around too much ;)


adds Hardship to rape victims. I tell you when Jon raped Olfina in the inn I wanted to killed him afterward just by reading what happen :dodgy: . Justics was done afterward I turn Olfina into a vampire and she killed him ;)


it also adjust the animation for unik marked ones most of the animation with sexlab seems to getting sync by Apropos after it have it hands in it the first time like.

like when the animation player where the charactors lies on the side it adjust the male forward by 8 instead of the default 0 and the slongs also get adjusted.


there is proberly more but I have forgotten what.


good for you that the "Height Adjusted Races with True Giants" worked for you now it is me that have trouble I might give it a try though I do not want to be a giant XD


::EDIT:: with ECE the lib-sync seems to work pretty well. and with RaceMenu I have now gotten the shutter you were talking about... I never notice it because I always use them together but it can almost clearly be seen if you have played with one of the, of for a while.


the trouble with ECE is that it is abandon or so it seems as it have not ben update for quite some time.

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You're awesome man, thanks. 


Yeah, i reckon it's Racemenu. I can't be sure, and i don't want to change my skeleton out to check. But yeah, i probably would never have thought Racemenu was a potential factor unless you pointed it out. So would you personally recommend ECE over Racemenu? I've just got a few Racemenu plugins, so i'd be hesitant to change it out.. but if it's the culprit, then it may be interfering in other ways too. But i might make a new character and give ECE a go, especially with the upcoming release of Perkus Maximus, which will replace SkyRe. And yeah, i don't really have many hair mods or anything, i did just install a big pack, but i was getting CTDs before that. I can't seem to replicate the crashes. But sometimes i'll CTD if i change race or gender too many times in character creation... idk. More annoying is that a lot of the time my game just CTDs upon trying to load my save. Sometimes i have to start Skyrim 4 or more times just to get my save to load successfully. Not sure what causes that... probably just having a shit ton of mods and a generally unstable game ^^


Anyway, for the time being, my height issues during animations are sorted thanks to the Player Size Adjuster mod. Although i can't be sure how stable that is... and it's probably best i start a fresh character...


Would love to get the lip sync/expressions working together though... may have to ask Ashal/Waxenfigure about it again in the official thread, although i feel like a annoying git when i do that, as 99% of the time, the framework is unbelievably awesome. I might try and make a gif of what happens when i have both enabled to make it clearer... But from the sounds of it, your Skyrim definitely isn't having any issues with the two of them enabled as i think it'd be quite noticable!

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with ECE the lib-sync seems to work pretty well. and with RaceMenu I have now gotten the shutter you were talking about... I never notice it because I always use them together but it can almost clearly be seen if you have played with one of the, of for a while.


the trouble with ECE is that it is abandon or so it seems as it have not ben update for quite some time.

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Hmm interesting, i'll check that guide out man. Although i'm pretty sure i've got every .ini tweak and stability mod under the sun :D I figured i just have TOO many mods, but it's worth a shot looking at that. It's even possible i have tweaked my Ini files so much that i have conflicting settings to do with SKSE and what not... There's always something to sort out.

I'll also definitely check out ECE and report back whether my lip sync works properly with that installed. Yeah, that's why i chose Racemenu over ECE in the end, as it was still being updated by its author. Also, i don't actually have 'Height adjusted races and true giants' i want to install it actually, but don't have currently i don't think. It looks awesome, does it create problems with Sexlab or something? When i said i made my character a GIANT for some earlier testing, i meant i just scaled his height up to like 2.00 in 'showracemenu'.. which i now know NOT to do ;)


Haha, Apropos sounds fun! Sounds like a strange mix of feautres... i thought it was just text. But anyway, i reckon it could enhance roleplaying a little bit, i think i'll install it! Does it enable NPC/NPC rape/sex? I think that adds a lot to game atmosphere to see NPCs interacting with each other.. consensual or rape. I'm currently using Lovers Victim, but it's kind of broken, even with a patch made by a user here. It's also been abandoned by it's creator i think which is a shame. It needs a few more options or bugs fixing, like the option to disable rape of player character if i'm playing as a male, or fix the bug where rapist gender option doesn't work... so my male character isn't being raped by female NPCs with strap-ons -.- Not my cup of tea. 


So i'm on the look out for a replacement mod that would enable NPCs to interact with each other and my character. I've seen the Random Sex mod or something, but maybe it's just TOO random for me. I like the idea of Lovers Victim but not the execution...

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Arh no it does not add NPC/NPC rape/sex. but it support those mods that do like Sexlab Defeat and Lovers Victim... 


As for execution yeah I agree with Lovers Victim there is a Japaness rape version on this site though were I do not know it was pretty good but... well I just personly did not like


there is also DangerousNights1.6.2 where when you sleep ther is a chance you get raped even by your follower :) and you can select how it happens ergo female vs male use cowgirl instead :) smae goes for defeat where you both can rape and get raped :lol:  even if you have a follower with you sneak up on some one as ask you follower to help raping him/her and a treesome an get activate.



oh and ans a rule of thumb Skyrim with SKSE can at max support 250 or so mods I think I have ben told so perhaps spring clean could be a good I dead :)


As for consensual sex I use Attraction and aproach... but it does not work for npc as far as I know.

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Awesome work man. However, im still puzzled about how you managed to get the lip sync and facial animations! I just tried swapping out Racemenu for ECE in Mod Organizer and updating my XPMSE skeleton to the latest, but the weird mouth twitching is still there with both options enabled. 


It could be because i have so many mods, some probably have settings that i've selected while installing that rely on Racemenu, i didn't install ECE very well i don't think. I would love to try ECE properly if Racemenu is causing these issues but i don't know about it now. It seems that it's incompatible with SkyRe Races plugin, or maybe i need to install ECE again and choose different options in the installer. Seemed to get quite a few other errors on starting up my save with ECE installed too, but perhaps again just because i did such a rushed install and i probably have some conflicting mods or something. I feel like Racemenu is just more compatible despite this annoying height bug. Suprised more people haven't said anything about that TBH, maybe most peoples characters are default height. 


Either way... disabling Racemenu and installing ECE didn't solve the lip sync issue for me! Oh well, maybe i'll ask in the official thread again as to why that is. Could be to do with another mod i have installed that you don't. I don't know! I had a quick look at the official thread, and i believe there were a few others with the same problem, but then it seems to work fine for others like you. Maybe it's a known conflict with something that will hopefully be patched.


Anyway, it's fine for now, i can play happily without it. And at least the height issue is sort of solved for now. You've also given me a bunch of other mods to try out: Apropos, Attraction, Approach, Dangerous Nights! I've got Defeat already, but maybe i just can't use it properly, or haven't explored it enough. Seems the rape is only after combat, so NPCs wouldn't just rape each other if they're horny and drunk in town. Every time i try and sneak up on someone and try use the Defeat 'action' key, the attempt fails every time!

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yeah I notice that to it is because I use a ECE addon callled  "Female Facial Animation"  and disable that in framework and use just lib-sync.

I been think that is why it have ben working for me trouble is I am not sure anymore did just see what I wanted to see or was I just used that I just assumed it is working... worst part is after I upgraded to RaceMenus I delete most of my files and additions to ECE I only have the core and face animation left and the others are not on nexus anymore those I had .


but i do not thing it is the other mods you have that is the cause of this unless you have one dealing directly with face animation or height.


hmm perhaps do you use "Death Alternative - Your Money Or Your Life" with Defeat ? also the grab thing is I belive link to your stamina the more you have th higher chance for a grab their is :)  At times I also think that if they have notice you sneaking up the chance for success is lower. however that is only what I think I have more success when they have not notice me and almost no chance if the sneak eye have be seen unless I standup and start sneaking again.


yeha that is why I mention the the the other mod where a rapist is randomly appoint and then stalkes around town finding on. it was a mod I stubble on when I was seaching for an alternative to Lovers Victim here on loverslab. but I can not find the topic which had it in it or  what the file was called any more.... I do not even have it any more because I was tired of one bug in it and that is the guards kill the victim. Last time Ysolda when I use it.


wait a moment he old Sexaddict have a random rape setting ? have you tried that mod to see if it was more to you liking ?



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Eesh, that's annoying. Yeah, it's no easy thing switching between ECE and Racemenu i think. I'd have to reinstall a lot of mods. Anyway, i've given up on getting it to work for now, i've posted in the official Framwork thread again, fingers crossed someone clever who knows technical things about Sexlab can shed a bit of light on the problem for me. I also have Female Facial Animation mod (i'm not sure i've noticed a difference in using it mind you, facial expressions seem the same as before!) but i tried disabling it, and any other similar mod, and i still had the jitter mouth bug when both options were enabled. So, i think i'll just wait and hope! I reckon it could be Racemenu interfering again, but I don't have the time or energy to make a fresh profile on Mod Organizer and systematically enable mods until i find which one is interfering... i've got too many and Racemenu is a bitch to uninstall, even temporarily!


I'll check out the mods you mention! Will try anything if it can do the job better than Lovers Victim. I still have some Defeat issues, but as you say, it does seem to be linked to Stamina, and my character is only level 14 at the moment, so perhaps this is why i have no luck. Still a lot to figure out with that mod... I don't use "your money or your life" mod, does that interfere with Defeat? I do however use a mod called NPC Knockout Overhaul.. which is very fun and great for immersion, but rather glitchy. I have a feeling this might conflict with Defeat, which is a shame as it's a great mod idea, even if it is kind of buggy.


I checked out Apropos too ^^ Not for me i don't think. I really like the idea of it, but it was just a bit clunky and distracting in the end. Maybe i'll try again when it's been updated a bit more as it's still in beta i believe. 

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I know what you mean too for now I have settle for RaceMenu with the option add from the skeletons my self. And uninstalled all files relate to ECE even those from the skeleton that some times add things for RaceMenu and ECE


oh no "Mony and your Life" are very much compadeble with "Defeat". it even checks if it is installed and uses it features. as for probems grabing them I sneak up on them from behind a grab the the easiest way to do it :) if you do not get notice that is.  Raped many would be bandits that way :angel:


Also try using "E" when you want to grab them it is easier to use then G in combat ;)  and if you want your follower to do it press "H" on them First and then on the target then they will grab them :lol:


yeah I belive "NPC Knockout Overhaul" does conflict with Defeat the same goes for Submit one of the reasons I do not use them.


Heh up to you of cause funny thing actually first time I added it and tried it out I felt I wanted to do the same. Now I can wait for the it to kick in and add the atmospher I laugh had last tiem I got raped by a troll as a female char ... wow I just wow it blow me to say the last how much that text can just make a thing like that both funny and serius. top it all off I think she loved it in the END :D  wll she is not a beastess for noting ;)

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