A Question about Load Order

[perrymwt]

I don't know if it matters or not, but a lot of the mods here require contradictory load orders. ZaZAnimationPack.esm appears to be the main culprit, as the mods' developers doesn't seem to know where to place it. For example, DDx and DDi both expect it to be after DD-Assets.esm. DeviouslyHelpless.esp wants the animation pack to be before DD-assets.esm and after Sexlab.esm. Sanguines Debauchery and Alternate Start - Live A Deviant Life wants the animation pack to be before SexLab.esm.

 

If somebody could clarify this for me, thanks. As far as I learned with Oblivion and Skyrim, a mod needs to have its masters in the proper order, else problems will occur. If all I have to do is sort the load orders using TES5Edit, then I can live with that.

 

If it does matter, then perhaps the developers can put together an official load order

 

[TnTTnT]

Have you try to use LOOT to order the loadorder for you?

http://loot.github.io/

[perrymwt]

This topic is not really about having LOOT arrange the load order. It's the fact that a number of mods in this forum have the same masters, but place them in different order. For example, SD and DDi disagree on the placement of ZaZAnimationPack.esm, one places it ahead of SexLab.esm and the other places it after SexLab.esm in their lists of masters. So, as far as I can tell, there is no way to resolve the contradiction.

[sorsharavenwing]

I've used TES5Edit to do this in the past and find it works well. But I'm lazy and prefer to let LOOT do it for me. Here's the order LOOT comes up with for these mods:

 

SexLab.esm
Devious Devices - Assets.esm
ZaZAnimationPack.esm
Devious Devices - Integration.esm
Devious Devices - Expansion.esm
DeviouslyHelpless.esp
sanguinesDebauchery.esp
Devious Deviants.esp
Alternate Start - Live A Deviant Life.esp

 

And that's always worked well for me. Hope this helps!

[perrymwt]

Ok, one more time, using your list.

 

Sanguine's Debauchery has this master list in this order:

 

skyrim.esm

update.esm

daymoyl.esm

zazanimationpack.esm

sexlab.esm

sexlabaroused.esm

devious devices - assets.esm

devious devices - integration .esm

 

Devious Devices - Expansion.esm has its master list in this load order:

 

skyrim.esm

update.esm

sexlab.esm

sexlabaroused.esm

devious devices - assets.esm

zazanimationpack.esm

devious devices - integration .esm

 

Now maybe I'm missing something here, but  zazanimationpack.esm appears in different places in the load order required by these two mods and can't be reconciled. From what I understand about how formids work, the masters have to be in the same order as the mod expects, otherwise formids referencing out of order masters will not point to the correct object in the correct master.

[TnTTnT]

Oh, really.

 

Anyone can confirm that order of master in each mods also matter rather than just load order of individual mods.

[sorsharavenwing]

Honestly, I don't know what to tell you. Aside from retexturing things and occasionally revamping NPCs I don't really do much in the way of modding. So I can't speak to how formids work. What I can say is that the above load order, courtesy of LOOT, is what I've been using with the mods in question (along with about 130 others plus a slew of retextures) and I haven't had so much as a single CTD.

[pinky6225]

This topic is not really about having LOOT arrange the load order. It's the fact that a number of mods in this forum have the same masters, but place them in different order. For example, SD and DDi disagree on the placement of ZaZAnimationPack.esm, one places it ahead of SexLab.esm and the other places it after SexLab.esm in their lists of masters. So, as far as I can tell, there is no way to resolve the contradiction.

 

Think i see the misunderstanding

 

 

So DDi.Esm requires all of the above but they don't have to be loaded in that exact order as you may have other .ESM's installed and other than the offical DLC/unoffical patches you can't stick a .ESP before a .ESM

 

So as long as DDi is stuck after all of the above it will work so my actual load order is...

 

SexLab.esm=1

SharedSeranaDialogue.esm=1

Devious Devices - Assets.esm=1

SGHairPackBase.esm=1

hdtHighHeel.esm=1

ApachiiHair.esm=1

paradise_halls.esm=1

Schlongs of Skyrim - Core.esm=1

SexLab Attraction.esm=1

SexLabAroused.esm=1

ZaZAnimationPack.esm=1

daymoyl.esm=1

Devious Devices - Integration.esm=1

 

You notice that Aroused.ESM is in a different place than in the screenshot

 

Looking through the various ESM's i have some have sexlab as a requirement which means they have to be loaded after but you can load ones that only have skyrim.esm as a requirement after sexlab as well as it wont make a difference (i.e appachiiHair.ESM only has skyrim.ESM as a requirement so it would work above or below sexlab)

[perrymwt]

That's correct as far as it goes. Now add Sanguine's Debauchery to your mod list. How do you get the two mods to work together? Try placing zazAnimationPack.esm and daymoyl.esm where they needs to go for both mods.

 

This is the master list load order for SD:

 

skyrim.esm

update.esm

daymoyl.esm

zazanimationpack.esm

sexlab.esm

sexlabaroused.esm

devious devices - assets.esm

devious devices - integration .esm

 

[pinky6225]

That's correct as far as it goes. Now add Sanguine's Debauchery to your mod list. How do you get the two mods to work together? Try placing zazAnimationPack.esm and daymoyl.esm where they needs to go for both mods.

 

This is the master list load order for SD:

 

skyrim.esm

update.esm

daymoyl.esm

zazanimationpack.esm

sexlab.esm

sexlabaroused.esm

devious devices - assets.esm

devious devices - integration .esm

 

I have SD+ installed dude, the order of the esm's that are all before it do not matter unless there is a dependancy between them, for example arousal requires sexlab so arousal is loaded after sexlab. Attraction requires sexlab and arousal so its loaded after both of them but it doesn't have to be directly after it (you notice below i have 7 .ESM's between sexlab and arousal reading the above as you posted it looks like arousal MUST be directly after sexlab)

 

I've marked Zaz, DAYMOYL,SD+

 

 

GameMode=Skyrim

Skyrim.esm=1

Update.esm=1

Unofficial Skyrim Patch.esp=1

Dawnguard.esm=1

Unofficial Dawnguard Patch.esp=1

HearthFires.esm=1

Unofficial Hearthfire Patch.esp=1

Dragonborn.esm=1

Unofficial Dragonborn Patch.esp=1

SexLab.esm=1

SharedSeranaDialogue.esm=1

Devious Devices - Assets.esm=1

SGHairPackBase.esm=1

hdtHighHeel.esm=1

ApachiiHair.esm=1

paradise_halls.esm=1

Schlongs of Skyrim - Core.esm=1

SexLabAroused.esm=1

SexLab Attraction.esm=1

ZaZAnimationPack.esm=1

daymoyl.esm=1

Devious Devices - Integration.esm=1

Devious Devices - Expansion.esm=1

HighResTexturePack01.esp=1

HighResTexturePack02.esp=1

HighResTexturePack03.esp=1

Unofficial High Resolution Patch.esp=1

MF_SpectatorCrowds.esp=1

crimsonquestmarkers.esp=1

LoversVictim.esp=1

dcpack1.esp=1

Zipsuit.esp=1

AmazingFollowerTweaks.esp=1

NewmGlassRobe.esp=1

no vampire attacks before dawnguard.esp=1

DD_restrained.esp=1

SlaveHeelsForHDTHighheelSystem.esp=1

barenziahquestmarkers.esp=1

SexLab-AmorousAdventures.esp=1

Lightweight Potions and Poisons.esp=1

Auto Unequip Ammo.esp=1

anyonefollows2.esp=1

soulgem-oven.esp=1

erboscookingexp.esp=1

SlaveTats.esp=1

ImmersiveFP.esp=1

SexLabWerewolves.esp=1

Books of Skyrim Compilation.esp=1

RaceMenuPlugin.esp=1

SexLab Approach.esp=1

DeathHoundFix.esp=1

Apropos.esp=1

SexLab Aroused Creatures.esp=1

SexLab Submit.esp=1

SexLab Submit Serana.esp=1

ImmerSlave-GagBlindCut.esp=1

craftablelockpicks.esp=0

FreeMem.esp=1

CD_Bukkake_001.esp=1

PuppetMasterSwallow.esp=1

armorcirclets.esp=1

guardskillcomments.esp=1

display-model.esp=1

DD - Interactions.esp=1

SOS - Smurf Average Addon.esp=1

ingot recovery.esp=1

Remodeled Armor - Vanilla Replacer - Dawnguard.esp=1

MoreNastyCritters.esp=1

Latex Armor.esp=1

RaceMenu.esp=1

Remodeled Armor - Vanilla Replacer - Dragonborn.esp=1

Remodeled Armor - Vanilla Replacer.esp=1

sanguinesDebauchery.esp=1

MoreBanditCamps.esp=1

Captured Dreams.esp=1

TwoRings.esp=1

FNISSexyMove.esp=1

SDpatch - dawnguard.esp=1

SDpatch - dragonborn.esp=1

the hunting game - thegreylight.esp=1

Schlongs of Skyrim.esp=1

SexLabMatchMaker.esp=1

SexLabNudeCreatures.esp=1

SexLabNudeCreaturesDB.esp=1

SexLabNudeCreaturesDG.esp=1

HentaiCreatures.esp=1

animal_mansion.esp=1

hydra_slavegirls.esp=1

run for your lives.esp=1

AliciaPainSlut.esp=1

SexLab-Stories.esp=1

SMIM-Merged-All.esp=1

SexLabStatsManipulator.esp=1

SexLabUtil1.esp=1

sextoys-calyps-2.esp=1

SexyVest.esp=1

SGHairPackAIO.esp=1

ShellBondage - Bombshell.esp=1

SkyrimBound.esp=1

SkyUI.esp=1

cbbecurvy.esp=1

Brawl Bugs CE.esp=1

lockpickvision.esp=1

AchieveThat.esp=1

SOS - VectorPlexus Muscular Addon.esp=1

SOS - VectorPlexus Regular Addon.esp=1

Spanking.esp=1

SSv2.esp=1

PuppetMaster.esp=1

TERAArmors.esp=1

when vampires attack.esp=1

xazPrisonOverhaul.esp=1

Populated Cities Towns Villages.esp=1

CollegeDaysWinterhold.esp=1

Devious Deviants.esp=1

SexLab_Paycrime.esp=1

Solutions-PrisonOverhaul Patch.esp=1

dragonsoulstoperks.esp=1

questfixes.esp=1

dungeonquestawareness.esp=1

paradise_halls_family_feud.esp=1

MoreBanditCamps - SexSlaves.esp=1

NiruinsBusinessPlan.esp=1

paradise_halls_fellglow_slave_camp.esp=1

XiNafay - Shoes.esp=1

zdd.esp=1

vidani's bag of holding.esp=1

slaverun.esp=1

SOS - Shop.esp=1

the paarthurnax dilemma.esp=1

Sweet&Sexy Lingerie.esp=1

Sansa.esp=1

paradise_halls_farengars_study.esp=1

SlaversHideout.esp=1

MF_RadiantProstitution.esp=1

Radiant-SchlongsPatch.esp=0

SexLabDangerousNights.esp=1

SlaverunEnforcer.esp=1

smelterinriverwood.esp=1

SexLab-StoriesDevious.esp=1

Gildergreen Regrown.esp=1

CraftablePantysCBBEv3M.esp=1

Abigail The Maid.esp=1

FNISspells.esp=1

slowerstaminadrain.esp=1

My Home Is Your Home.esp=1

askfollowerskills.esp=1

theeyesofbeauty.esp=1

Alternate Start - Live Another Life.esp=1

ImmerSlave.esp=1

ImmerSlave-ParadiseHallsPatch.esp=1

Bashed Patch, 0.esp=1

 

 

 

 

Try placing zazAnimationPack.esm and daymoyl.esm

Both of these only have skyrim.esm and update.esm as there requirements, my loot is sticking sexlab before them and i've heard its best to load sexlab early and as it works theres no reason to change it but by the mod requirements there is no actual reason to have it before either of the two above.

[perrymwt]

My point being, SD requires zazAnimationPack.esm to be loaded before SexLab.esm, while DDi requires it to be loaded after SexLab.esm. No matter what you do, either SD or DDi is going to have zazAnimationPack.esm in the wrong place.

 

Lets assume that we have both SD and DDi installed in the order that SD requires without any extra mods, as in my post. A formid in SD referencing zazAnimationPack.esm will have the form 03xxxxxx. A formid in DDi referencing zazAnimationPack.esm will have the form 05xxxxxx. The DDi formid would be referencing a form in sexlabaroused.esm, whether it exists or not. I assuming, and I have read, that this would not be good.

 

That's the reason I want this clarified.

[pinky6225]

My point being, SD requires zazAnimationPack.esm to be loaded before SexLab.esm, while DDi requires it to be loaded after SexLab.esm. No matter what you do, either SD or DDi is going to have zazAnimationPack.esm in the wrong place.

 

Lets assume that we have both SD and DDi installed in the order that SD requires without any extra mods, as in my post. A formid in SD referencing zazAnimationPack.esm will have the form 03xxxxxx. A formid in DDi referencing zazAnimationPack.esm will have the form 05xxxxxx. The DDi formid would be referencing a form in sexlabaroused.esm, whether it exists or not. I assuming, and I have read, that this would not be good.

 

That's the reason I want this clarified.

 

Umm dude I have all of those in the above working fine as you'd see from looking.

 

Your acting on a wrong premise in that SD requires that, it does not particularly care what order the .ESM's are loaded in as its a .ESP file so every single .ESM you have installed is going to be loaded before it so as i've said twice now unless the .ESM's have a particular order they need to be in (as i explained) it does not matter to SD+

 

Also DDI doesn't doesn't require zaz to be loaded before sexlab, it requires zaz and sexlab to be loaded before its loaded.

[perrymwt]

I can't state the problem any more clear than in the first paragraph. If you can't see the problem as explained in the second paragraph, I think we are just spinning our wheels here. Basically, you're saying that Skyrim automagically fixes all references in a mod, no matter what the load order is. I have serious doubts about that, but if you could give me a reference that it does, I would definitely read it, and then agree with you.

[pinky6225]

Well from the sound of it you don't actually have a problem, you want to be lead by the nose through the skyrim code which while i'm sure would be fun isn't going to happen as i have neither the knowledge or the will to do that.

 

Luck with finding someone that does

[perrymwt]

I apologize if I offended you, but if you could read the last section in this link http://www.creationkit.com/Data_file, then you see my concerns are justified, if not as bad as I made out. Possibly everything runs okay, but I would still prefer if the mod authors would agree on a set load order for the various masters.

[WaxenFigure]

 

Nether the SD+ mod nor the DDi mods say anything at all about what order to load the prerequisite mods. The order they listed them is probably just the order they added the requirements OR the order they remembered them when they composed those lists.

 

YOU are reading too much into those lists, things that simply don't exist.

 

The information in the CK documentation you are referencing is for when mods are directly updating the same records in the game, these mods are USING references to each other instead of making different or cascading updates to the same records in the game.

 

That information is more pertinent in situations where you for example have two mods that change Lydia, whichever mod is last is the one who "wins".

[sorsharavenwing]

I can see where you're coming from. I will admit that reading the linked article made me understand why you're concerned it. And I suspect I'll pay a bit more attention to it in the future myself. Maybe I've just been really lucky in choosing the mods I run (right now I'm running 146 mods including retextures), but to date I haven't seen any of the symptoms that this issue can introduce. And I've been playing Skyrim since the day it came out. The mods we've been discussing in this thread (except for Deviously Helpless, which was a recent addition) have been at the heart of my Skyrim loadout for quite a while now and have always performed as advertised. I've been using LOOT since BOSS got sidelined. And so far LOOT hasn't let me down either.

[perrymwt]

This has gone on longer than I thought it would. Basically, all I would like to see is the basic resource and application mod developers to decide on a common mod order for those mods. These mods include the DD mods, Sexlab Aroused, and of course, Sexlab itself. Most of the inconsistencies would be eliminated if only an agreement where zazAnimationPack.esm should be placed could be reached, either before Sexlab.esm (my preference as that is what I use) or after it (I am open to changing my load order).

 

Actually, do any developers read this particular forum? No implied criticism or insult should be read into this question. I just want to know if I'm wasting my time here, when I should be posting somewhere else.

[RandomOne]

I've often wondered the same because I use wrye bash and it lights up like a christmas tree because of the inconsistant master records in the various sexlab mods. I too just let loot organize them and everything seems to work ok. I never asked about it because everything seems to work and I figured I'd get a bunch of no answer answers just like you did lol.