[Idea] Rape discouragement mod: Post-rape animations, psychological consequences

[Anon96]

http://www.loverslab.com/files/file/835-skintextures/ these would be good textures to use.

[_Maverick_]

This is my first post on this forum after being a lurker for god knows how long.

 

Just want to say that I think this is amazing, I have been searching for a mod like this for ages and this sounds perfect especially if you could implement the textures Anon96 found in the post above mine.

It's frankly ridiculous the idea that you could get raped, and just simply get up and walk away with no ill effects, so major kudos to you for this well thought out mod I look forward to seeing this done.

 

[Guest GuyWhoAbruptlyDisappeared]

BTW Scripting side of this mod is coming along nicely. I'll attempt the animations once I have an otherwise working alpha version of the mod (using bleedout as a substitute animation). I'm also working on Mortality concurrently, as I intend to offer SexLab Mortality as an optional addon (so you can have both physical and psychological effects), or RDM without Mortality (if you want to use your own Wear & Tear mod such as Apropos).

[Darian]

I find your idea really interesting.

To extend the psychological consequences, I would like to bring to your attention the fact that a rape can lead to an orgasm link
-"…although I never stopped resisting I was horrified to find myself having a series of multiple orgasms…"
-One woman describes a violent and painful gang rape and recalls, "One of the most disturbing things that happened that night is that I had an orgasm. Despite years of marriage, it was my first orgasm ever."
-"some rapists enjoy making their victims' bodies respond to the assault as a sign of dominance. These rapists work to get a physical response from their victims."

 

 

An orgasm during a rape can happen and it deepens the trauma, making the victim thinks she's terribly perverted or mentally sick to enjoy it. A seasoned warrior won't have a problem to shake off the  physical pain, after all she experienced a lot worse in battle. What would make it truely traumatic is if she enjoyed it or surrendered to the pleasure. If her rapist said "Do you like it, bitch" and she couldn't help but to think "yes".


Maybe you could use "sexlab aroused" to evaluate the risk of orgasm ? That way the player can mitigate this risk. I'm saying that mostly from a gameplay point of view, to give the player more control over the consequences (don't go into the sex slavers' camp while horny !).

[JarlNick]

The description makes me think this could become a must have companion for other mods. 

 

I hope the mod will be intelligent regarding the changes in aggression.  It seems an NPC victim would be far more likely to run than attack.   Also, there is the chance this could be used alongside a slavery mod, in which case the PC or NPC would not have the option of escape.  

[Guest GuyWhoAbruptlyDisappeared]

I find your idea really interesting.

 

To extend the psychological consequences, I would like to bring to your attention the fact that a rape can lead to an orgasm link

-"…although I never stopped resisting I was horrified to find myself having a series of multiple orgasms…"

-One woman describes a violent and painful gang rape and recalls, "One of the most disturbing things that happened that night is that I had an orgasm. Despite years of marriage, it was my first orgasm ever."

-"some rapists enjoy making their victims' bodies respond to the assault as a sign of dominance. These rapists work to get a physical response from their victims."

 

 

An orgasm during a rape can happen and it deepens the trauma, making the victim thinks she's terribly perverted or mentally sick to enjoy it. A seasoned warrior won't have a problem to shake off the  physical pain, after all she experienced a lot worse in battle. What would make it truely traumatic is if she enjoyed it or surrendered to the pleasure. If her rapist said "Do you like it, bitch" and she couldn't help but to think "yes".

 

 

Maybe you could use "sexlab aroused" to evaluate the risk of orgasm ? That way the player can mitigate this risk. I'm saying that mostly from a gameplay point of view, to give the player more control over the consequences (don't go into the sex slavers' camp while horny !).

 

You're correct that people have been known to orgasm during rape. According to an article I found a few weeks ago, the arousal thing is one of the reasons rape is so traumatic. Any rape victim, male or female, will most likely experience arousal, as contrary to popular belief arousal can happen independently of the brain, but it feels like they're submitting to the aggressor anyway.

Rape is almost always a power thing - forcing the victim's own body to submit against their will.

 

However, I don't think using a risk of orgasm is a good idea. I don't know whether or not having an orgasm during rape makes it better or worse, nor whether being horny before the act would change the chances of it, so I don't want to simulate it in the mod.

Rather, the effect you're discussing is a deeper psychological problem that is one of the reasons why rape is so traumatic, and is therefore already addressed by adding trauma in later.

[_Maverick_]

One thing i am curious about is how this is going to work with other mods.

For instance SL - Defeat which i believe is one of the highest rated sexlab mods.

 

With defeat (which i'll use as the example because it's the only one i remember off the top of my head) when you are knocked down you are raped, after the animation finishes and you stand back up and carry on with your day.

At what point will mod take over, will it be integrated into the other mods?

[Guest GuyWhoAbruptlyDisappeared]

One thing i am curious about is how this is going to work with other mods.

For instance SL - Defeat which i believe is one of the highest rated sexlab mods.

 

With defeat (which i'll use as the example because it's the only one i remember off the top of my head) when you are knocked down you are raped, after the animation finishes and you stand back up and carry on with your day.

At what point will mod take over, will it be integrated into the other mods?

 

The SexLab framework has a series of hooks, such as AnimationEnd, which I will latch on to. I will have to work to make it not conflict with other mods, but I will definitely be making sure it's compatable with Defeat, Submit, Debauchery, Etc. before any sort of release.

[Vuulgar]

This mod will be great to me, I have always disliked how things are just forgotten for the most part after a rape, I want my character to be angry or upset so revenge if possible will be that much more sweet. I even like the idea of revenge on the attacker reducing penalties from the attack, sort of like taking your confidence back.

[acudaowner]

could you not use that as another reason for the vigalent of stendar to chase , hunt you ? they do already chase vamps down , and other reasons if you have those other mods whats one more reason ?

[Just Checking]

could you not use that as another reason for the vigalent of stendar to chase , hunt you ? they do already chase vamps down , and other reasons if you have those other mods whats one more reason ?

 

You could use them, I suppose, but (excuse me while I nerd it up in here) they don't have anything to do with hunting common criminals.  They're less bounty hunters and more religious monster hunters that kill vampires, werewolves, daedra and other creatures the exist on the suffering of people.  Unless you fall into the category of literal monster or conspirator to a literal monster, they'll probably leave you alone and let the guards deal with you.  I guess it would just be odd for the VOS to bludgeon you over the head for raping someone while screaming about how bad Daedra are despite the fact that there is no way for all that oblivion invasion business to happen again, and they'd know that if they paid any attention to their own history.

 

Can anyone tell that I think the VOS are a group of overzealous idiots that don't know how to read their own books, and probably shouldn't be given the responsibility of deciding whether a madman living in a cave is a dangerous necromancer or just a crazy hermit that likes to yell things a passersby?

 

Back on topic, if you want people to come after you, may as well just use the standard bounty hunters.  Unless you actually are a vampire or whatever.  I'll bet nothing pisses the VOS off like a supernatural monster not only doing what they usually do, but adding to problems further by committing mundane crimes too.

[ltknight88]

"Any rape causes shellshock and insomnia - shellshock reduces weapon damage, magicka, and magicka regeneration; insomnia makes skills improve 35% slower, "

 

I love the idea that post rape, skills improve slower.  It is like the opposite of the "Lovers stone" or Lovers comfort.  Being the victim of a brutal attack should significantly slow or stop progression to the next level.  One more reason why you need to be careful out there!

[TwitchJD]

I've been keen to see this mod released as a WIP/Beta since its conception, curious to see whether active development is still underway, on hiatus or something?
Really like the concept of the mod, it would be a crying shame to see it dead in the water? 

[warpath246]

Would use

[Vuulgar]

I've been keen to see this mod released as a WIP/Beta since its conception, curious to see whether active development is still underway, on hiatus or something?

Really like the concept of the mod, it would be a crying shame to see it dead in the water? 

 

I agree, this is a great idea especially if the penalties are customizable so I can adjust to my playstyle. Some in game penalties make the game too hard to even play, an example is a pure caster character with little to no magicka regen makes for alot of sitting idle waiting, gathering neverending mats for potions or cheating some up with console commands.

[Guest GuyWhoAbruptlyDisappeared]

I've been keen to see this mod released as a WIP/Beta since its conception, curious to see whether active development is still underway, on hiatus or something?

Really like the concept of the mod, it would be a crying shame to see it dead in the water? 

 

Not at all, quite the contrary - I've actually been working on the animations since I got FNIS working properly.

 

The mod has changed quite a bit in the nature, to be much more friendly to gameplay and also make more sense.

 

 

It is now called Mortal Minds, and I may release a beta in the next month.

[Slorm]

 

It is now called Mortal Minds, and I may release a beta in the next month.

 

 

Brilliant, I'm looking forward to this one

 

[Regallag the Perv]

 

 

The mod has changed quite a bit in the nature, to be much more friendly to gameplay and also make more sense.

 

 

Can you tell us what it's going to look like now, or is it too soon for that?  In any case, I'm really looking forward to it.

[originalwankster]

Glad to hear this is still underway. I'm hyped.

[Vuulgar]

 

I've been keen to see this mod released as a WIP/Beta since its conception, curious to see whether active development is still underway, on hiatus or something?

Really like the concept of the mod, it would be a crying shame to see it dead in the water? 

 

Not at all, quite the contrary - I've actually been working on the animations since I got FNIS working properly.

 

The mod has changed quite a bit in the nature, to be much more friendly to gameplay and also make more sense.

 

 

It is now called Mortal Minds, and I may release a beta in the next month.

 

 

Excellent to hear, thank you for your efforts and as the others here, I am looking forward to trying it out

[feral]

I kinda like the idea, especially for NPCs. But I'd like to add to the conversation is that people don't always react to trauma the same way. Using the warrior analogy, a trained and hardened warrior may not be as traumatized from a hard fought and nearly lost battle of life and death like a bard would be if they had endured the same scenario.

 

Warriors are trained for battle, they're physically and mentally prepped for it, and as such they are better equipped mentally do deal with the stresses of battle, more so than an average individual, but it doesn't mean they're immune.

 

But when it comes to sexual trauma, many other variables come into play that can effect a person's reaction to having been raped. The level of violence, number of participants, who the participants are, and the potential for injury, diseases, or pregnancy are just a few obvious things that comes into account; but the not so obvious variables are personal and social disposition as well.

 

Putting my two cents in, as valuable or worthless as you see fit; goes as such.

 

I don't think a universal consequence is the way to go, I think there should be some variation that reflects the NPC's character archetype. For example:

 

A city dwelling NPC that isn't adventure or battled hardened would often fear and hate the player, very likely to avoid or flee from the player when they're revisited.

 

NPC's that are adventure seasoned or battle hardened would more likely resent or hate the player out right, with a slight chance of them attacking the player when revisited.

 

Bandits are opportunistic and their reactions would vary, some may accept their fate as preferred alternate to death. Some may cower or flee, some may just immediately attack the player again with a second wind.

-----------

 

As for player consequences after being raped, or having raped someone should also very depending on what kind of character the player is and whether they were raped at random, defeated in combat or submit. Here are some examples that I'm talking about.

 

Character disposition, "virtuous": "Whether your character is pure or promiscuous, a person's body is sacred."

 

Using this selection grants the player a bonus that slightly increases skill progression rate, as well as health, stamina and magicka regeneration.

-Being raped via any manner is devastating, but temporary. Praying at a shrine or seeing a healer will increase the rate in which the trauma subsides.

 

-Raping someone removes the bonus, repeated rapes apply a debuff to skill progression and when the cap is reached the bonus is permanently removed and the player's disposition is reassigned.

 

Character disposition, "Eye for eye": "You respect a person's right to their body, until they try to take away yours."

 

Using this selection your character understands the dangers of the wilds, and accepts the fact that adventuring comes with many risks. Your character is more resilient to trauma, but it's semi permanent. Your character is spiteful, and the only way to allow trauma to subside is to seek revenge against the person(s) who raped you. This can be achieved by killing them, or returning the favor.

 

-Being raped at random and through defeat is the most traumatic.

-Being raped after surrendering is the least traumatic.

 

-Raping someone who has initiated combat with you (bandit, thief, etc) provides no bonus, and no debuff.

-Raping someone any other way increases your reputation as a rapist.

 

Those are just a couple ideas

-------------------

 

If you've got the right mods, being caught raping someone comes with a bounty. But to further discourage I also have a suggestion for that, and the idea is a reputation system. The more you rape people, the more likely you're going to be randomly attacked by bounty hunters, militias, guards or victims out for revenge. And/or the more likely it is for moral merchants, trainers and followers to refuse service.

 

It would be a fading level system that works much like the skills tree. The progress bar fades over time, but once you gain a level that level is locked; and this could be hold specific like bounties.

 

For example you start off at level 0, to the land of Skyrim or the holds within, you aren't a rapist. But if you rape people and charge the bar to the next level, you become known as a rapist. Getting caught will automatically increase your reputation to the next level... At level 1 it's only rumors (unless you got caught), people will talk and make comments about your increasing reputation. There is only a slight risk of being attacked by someone you've victimized, or on their behalf.

 

At level 2 you are a known rapist, whether or not you were ever caught, guards will begin to take notice and the general population will shun you and some of the more brassy citizens will try to brawl you, moral followers that require to be paid will increase their price. You might be attacked by the occasional hired thug.

 

At level 3 your reputation as a rapist precedes you, shop keepers and trainers would rather not do business with you, but they'll settle with just charging you outrageous prices for everything. Some people have it out for you, you are attacked more often in the wilds and by stronger foes.

 

etc...

 

------------

 

Anyway, those are my ideas.

[Guest GuyWhoAbruptlyDisappeared]

 

 

etc...

 

------------

 

Anyway, those are my ideas.

 

As I said before, the nature of the mod has changed significantly. I think it's much more coherent now and follows K-I-S-S philosophy, and is not a mess of psychological guessing (not referring to your post, but all of the previous ones).

 

I completely revamped the mod from the ground up, and even changed the name, after I gained experience with a lasting player damage mod (that I never released because I don't feel like babysitting the nexus). I also completely redid Sexlab Mortality to be much more coherent, but have not gotten the MCM working, hence no update.

 

All of the scripts are magiceffect based, because it needs to run on many NPC's at once.

 

As it is now, Mortal Minds attaches a spell (negative ability Emotional Shock) to any NPC on animationend if they're a victim, including the player. The script gathers as much information as possible - checks what city they're from, what hold they're from, if they're bandits, vampires, where they were at the time of the assault, etc. The script is the same whether it's the player or NPC. 

 

Depending on the information gathered above (much like SexLab Mortality), it will apply various effects, most of which are scripted. It would take too long to list each of the effects, so you'll just have to take my word that there are a number of them, but not too many. NPC's in holds will try to call the guards, rather than attack the player like the mod previously was.

 

The severity of the effects depend upon the information

Housecarls have a 25% chance of going AWOL and leaving for Morrowind in spite of their oath. They will give you their inventory and switch into Mourner clothes, dismiss, and be activation blocked so you cannot call them back even with EFF.

Hirelings, vampires (including Serana), and generic followers will attack the player, similar to what they would do if you kept hitting them.

Quest followers with the exception of vampires will have a minimized relationship with the player.

Citizens of Markarth, Solitude, Dawnstar, and Falkreath, along with priests, jarls, and stewards, will react very badly and get the worst effects, will try to pretend nothing happened, and are the least likely to call the guards (high sexual repression).

Citizens of Windhelm, Riften, Raven Rock, Morthal, and small settlements such as Riverwood will react intermediately, and have a 50% chance to call the guards (medium repression).

Citizens of Whiterun will get the least effects almost definitely call the guards, and the aggressor, player or not, is going to be in serious danger (low sexual repression, open-minded city). 

People in holds without guards will have a random reaction from above picked for them, minus the calling of the guards. The same goes for NPC's that the script fails to gather any information about that are a human/elf race. In practice, the script picks a random number between 1 and 100 and applies the effects based on how high the number is. If the NPC has a warrior class, the progression is non-linear, and they are much more likely to get low effects than high effects.

Bandits, reavers, and any valid SexLab actor that is not a human or elf will not react.

 

It's actually a relatively simple script, and that part is done. When I finish them, I'll pause the script and make them play one of my new injured/trauma idles. 

 

The complicated scripting is for the magic effects in the case of a player victim, which I am still working on. 

 

I decided not to add texture effects such as crying streaks and so on because the game does not handle multiple vfx on the player at once well at all, and the cum shader will always dominate.

[feral]

 

 

 

etc...

 

------------

 

Anyway, those are my ideas.

 

As I said before, the nature of the mod has changed significantly. I think it's much more coherent now and follows K-I-S-S philosophy, and is not a mess of psychological guessing (not referring to your post, but all of the previous ones).

 

I completely revamped the mod from the ground up, and even changed the name, after I gained experience with a lasting player damage mod (that I never released because I don't feel like babysitting the nexus). I also completely redid Sexlab Mortality to be much more coherent, but have not gotten the MCM working, hence no update.

 

All of the scripts are magiceffect based, because it needs to run on many NPC's at once.

 

As it is now, Mortal Minds attaches a spell (negative ability Emotional Shock) to any NPC on animationend if they're a victim, including the player. The script gathers as much information as possible - checks what city they're from, what hold they're from, if they're bandits, vampires, where they were at the time of the assault, etc. The script is the same whether it's the player or NPC. 

 

Depending on the information gathered above (much like SexLab Mortality), it will apply various effects, most of which are scripted. It would take too long to list each of the effects, so you'll just have to take my word that there are a number of them, but not too many. NPC's in holds will try to call the guards, rather than attack the player like the mod previously was.

 

The severity of the effects depend upon the information

Housecarls have a 25% chance of going AWOL and leaving for Morrowind in spite of their oath. They will give you their inventory and switch into Mourner clothes, dismiss, and be activation blocked so you cannot call them back even with EFF.

Hirelings, vampires (including Serana), and generic followers will attack the player, similar to what they would do if you kept hitting them.

Quest followers with the exception of vampires will have a minimized relationship with the player.

Citizens of Markarth, Solitude, Dawnstar, and Falkreath, along with priests, jarls, and stewards, will react very badly and get the worst effects, will try to pretend nothing happened, and are the least likely to call the guards (high sexual repression).

Citizens of Windhelm, Riften, Raven Rock, Morthal, and small settlements such as Riverwood will react intermediately, and have a 50% chance to call the guards (medium repression).

Citizens of Whiterun will get the least effects almost definitely call the guards, and the aggressor, player or not, is going to be in serious danger (low sexual repression, open-minded city). 

People in holds without guards will have a random reaction from above picked for them, minus the calling of the guards. The same goes for NPC's that the script fails to gather any information about that are a human/elf race. In practice, the script picks a random number between 1 and 100 and applies the effects based on how high the number is. If the NPC has a warrior class, the progression is non-linear, and they are much more likely to get low effects than high effects.

Bandits, reavers, and any valid SexLab actor that is not a human or elf will not react.

 

It's actually a relatively simple script, and that part is done. When I finish them, I'll pause the script and make them play one of my new injured/trauma idles. 

 

The complicated scripting is for the magic effects in the case of a player victim, which I am still working on. 

 

I decided not to add texture effects such as crying streaks and so on because the game does not handle multiple vfx on the player at once well at all, and the cum shader will always dominate.

 

 

I like what you have going there, but would the player be able to adjust the strength or kind of consequences they suffer? I understand that you're trying to shoot for something more realistic and immersive, but I wouldn't want my character to react in the same way as another character I may create, might.

 

For example, I play my character sort of like a hot-headed rapist. She wouldn't rape people who haven't attacked her first, and I'd like to think her reaction to being victimized would be different, rather than suffering from "depression" she'd be more raged and vengeful. Her consequences could be that she'd get careless in battle until the score is settled with her rapist(s). She could suffer random debuffs to combat skills that could apply, or un-apply at any given time, her combat movement could also be reduced, and her chances for critical hits could be reduced or completely negated.

 

And/or since she's also a werewolf, she may loose her ability to fully control her transformations and in a fit of rage she could transform into a werewolf at an inopportune time.

 

And/or she could enter blind rage when combating her rapist, her combat skills and stamina could gain a boost at the cost of having significant vision distortion and chances to fall down when swinging swords, or fire off an arrow before the bow is completely drawn back.

 

Just ideas

[afa]

Any special plans for follower victim that did not have the PC as the aggressor?

Or they are just going to take it out on the PC anyways?

[Guest GuyWhoAbruptlyDisappeared]

Any special plans for follower victim that did not have the PC as the aggressor?

Or they are just going to take it out on the PC anyways?

 

They will only behave that way if the player was the one who raped them. Otherwise, they'll get the usual debuffs and varying effects based on their hold.