SMP - A Novice Question

[LoneGentleman]

Hey there, I'm pretty new to using SMP, but I've enjoyed it over CBPC for a bit now. 

 

I mostly play as male character going on adventures with different followers for different stretches of time. Obviously I enable SMP for their breast. 

 

Now my question is: IF I have them all use unique bodies, will collisions be off? 

 

In BodySlide I can build the collisions for the 3BA and BHUNP bodies (I use both, with different outfits for each), but then the collisions will only be accurate if the followers are using the same body presets I used when building the SMP armors, right? Is there any kind of way to give each follower it's own SMP armor? It doesn't need to be automated, but could I technically build the SMP armor based on their Body and then have them equip exactly that one? 

 

To the best of my level of knowledge this should be possible, but I don't want to struggle to figure out how if it actually isn't. But to my knowledge the SMP Collision Armor Object is an equip able item that if worn enables SMP. So if I use SSEEdit can't I add a custom made one to the follower in question?

 

How important is this anyway if collisions are a little off? I assume it would only matter if hands, penis or else touch the breast. So if it's a little off, because the built preset isn't the same as their body - then it will not look natural, yes?

[traison]

1 hour ago, LoneGentleman said:

IF I have them all use unique bodies, will collisions be off?

 

SMP places collision spheres on every vertex or in the center of every polygon depending on configuration, so no, different body shapes will not be a problem. This is the one thing SMP has over CBPC in my opinion.

 

1 hour ago, LoneGentleman said:

In BodySlide I can build the collisions for the 3BA,,,

 

If you're using virtual collision meshes then all bets are off. If the virtual collision mesh doesn't morph properly, then the collision will probably be somewhere else than where you expected it.

 

1 hour ago, LoneGentleman said:

So if I use SSEEdit can't I add a custom made one to the follower in question?

 

And this is the major (again IMO) thing CBPC has over SMP; if collisions are bound to a virtual collision mesh, then without that ring or some other equippable item there will be no collisions. Need to make sure it doesn't get stolen in a Submit or Defeat event, or when going to the Thalmor Embassy - remember to give your boob physics to Malborn before going.

 

1 hour ago, LoneGentleman said:

How important is this anyway if collisions are a little off?

 

A string to beads isn't precise to begin with anyways. Also this is a subjective question and thus completely pointless to ask; unless you're for some reason incapable of thinking for yourself, which doesn't seem to be the case.

[LoneGentleman]

Hey @traison, thank you for the response and taking the time for it,

See I'm new to SMP. When I last played and modded Skyrim years ago there was only one thing: HDT. Also nothing involving 3 breast bones yet. I'm trying to learn as much about both CBPC and SMP to apply to my own game, but also to potentially improve upon some things if and where I can.

 

8 hours ago, traison said:

...SMP places collision spheres on every vertex or in the center of every polygon depending on configuration, so no, different body shapes will not be a problem. This is the one thing SMP has over CBPC in my opinion....

 

If I build the collisions for the nude body in BodySlide, using the Collision Armos provided by the 3BA and BHUNP bodies, that is the virtual collisions configuration, right?

 

Spoiler

 

To the best of my knowledge that is the virtual version, because I distinctly remember that when working with the SMP Head by predator I actually applied SMP to the whole SOS Futa Schlong mesh rather than just create a collision sphere. Also it was provided for already for the True Gentleman Version.

 

Spoiler

 

As in I had to find the name of the mesh part and tell SMP that this would collide. But how do I apply SMP to the body  mesh itself rather than have a virtual SMP?

 

9 hours ago, traison said:

And this is the major (again IMO) thing CBPC has over SMP; if collisions are bound to a virtual collision mesh, then without that ring or some other equippable item there will be no collisions. Need to make sure it doesn't get stolen in a Submit or Defeat event, or when going to the Thalmor Embassy - remember to give your boob physics to Malborn before going.

 

The question was if it is possible, not whether CBPC has an edge over SMP because it doesn't require an equipped item. The BHUNP body mod essentially comes with 4 different items that it can apply to NPC, one for each cup size - with it's own configuration XML. My question was if I can, somehow, make more of those items to align better with each unique followers body shape. Basically can I generate a new nif, copy the armor entry in the BHUNP mod to use this file, point it to a new XML and then place this item in the followers hidden inventory?

 

Spoiler

 

It sounds like it would be better to "place collision spheres on every vertex or in the center of every polygon". But how do I do that for the BHUNP and 3BA body?

 

My main objective is to create visual diversity by having unique body shapes for every follower. So obviously physics need to be diversified as well. 

 

In the first place it doesn't appear that the virtual SMP armors don't support assigning different configs (xml) based on weight? I know CBPC can do that, when installing you can choose weight based bounce and amplitudes. Does something like this also exist for SMP? Therefore I originally thought I would split my Body Presets into cup sizes, which stay more or less consistent regardless of weight. So rather than make a body that has small breast at low weight and large breast at high weight I would have presets it like this:

 

- Soft Body  with A Cup

- Soft Body with B Cup

- Soft Body with C Cup

- Soft Body with D Cup

- Fit Body, (4 different ones per Cup Size again)

- Chubby Body, (4 different ones per Cup Size again)

- Thick Thighs Body (you get it, 4 of em)

- Hourglass Body

- Skinny Body

- Muscular Body

- Round Body

 

This way I can keep breast sizes consistent while changing the rest of the body, but then I thought it limits me to 4 different breast sizes if I want precise collisions. Ideally I'd like to have more than just 4 different sizes.

 

Well if I include the 3BA bodies I guess I can have 4 more, giving me a total of 8 different shapes. Which is acceptable enough I suppose.

 

9 hours ago, traison said:

Also this is a subjective question and thus completely pointless to ask; unless you're for some reason incapable of thinking for yourself, which doesn't seem to be the case.

Not really. Isn't it a technical question? If I create a body which has slightly larger breast than the Virtual Collision Armor would I experience ugly clipping, or is there typically a margin. I sort of went and answered this question for myself now actually by building bodies and collision armos back to back.

Spoiler

Using a precisely built collision armor that uses the same preset as the follower:

 

And then increasing the follower breast size without building the collision armor again:

 

The technical answer I think I would give to someone else after testing would be: "It can cause clipping issues, so if you want to change the breast size from what the collision armor size is set at - make sure you go smaller, not larger. A bit of a gap between the colliding object and the breast is less prominent than clipping." Of course I believe in 'test it for yourself' and no one owes me their time of day to answer my questions, but I figured I would just toss the question up, in case there's something I am not accounting for since I am a novice. Someone might point something out to me that I would otherwise only come across one day - maybe not even know how to fix.

 

As of right now I'll do some research about this "SMP places collision spheres on every vertex or in the center of every polygon depending on configuration" you mentioned and if it can be applied to the body.

 

Of course all my assumptions and approaches might be entirely wrong, in which case I hope someone just points me the right way. 

 

Thank you.

[traison]

17 minutes ago, LoneGentleman said:

See I'm new to SMP. When I last played and modded Skyrim years ago there was only one thing: HDT

 

HDT is the author, SMP is the mod. You're confusing HDT with PE, as in HDT SMP and HDT PE. PE was short for Physics Extension if I remember correctly, and SMP is Skinned Mesh Physics. PE used Havok physics, and SMP is built with Bullet physics. HDT was short for HydrogenSays I think.

 

CBPC has a fully custom physics engine.

 

18 minutes ago, LoneGentleman said:

If I build the collisions for the nude body in BodySlide, using the Collision Armos provided by the 3BA and BHUNP bodies, that is the virtual collisions configuration, right? ... To the best of my knowledge that is the virtual version ... But how do I apply SMP to the body  mesh itself rather than have a virtual SMP?

 

Usually it's a white textureless approximation of the actual body or armor mesh. The first thing I did with SMP was rewrite its configuration files. I got rid of the virtual collision meshes, since I knew it could be done as I had already done the same with PE in Skyrim LE. That said I do not know what the current modern SMP/3BA setup looks like, but I haven't heard of any "breakthroughs" being made in this regard so I'm still going by the assumption you need to wear a ring or something to get collisions. This "ring" has the virtual collision mesh assigned to it.

 

25 minutes ago, LoneGentleman said:

It sounds like it would be better to "place collision spheres on every vertex or in the center of every polygon". But how do I do that for the BHUNP and 3BA body?

 

Sure, but:

• You'll have less control of the collisions. There's no way to adjust margins for the belly region without it also affecting the shoulders for instance.
• Performance might degrade as now the entire body has to be considered for collisions. If SMP is done properly it shouldn't be too bad or even measurable, but I do not know if it is.
• You'll have to rewrite every config file in SMP and check all future armors you download - they all assume you have the standard setup.

The short answer is:

1. Remove all scripts and plugins from SMP, leave only the dll and its configuration files.
2. Change all configuration files that currently point to the virtual collision mesh, and have them instead assign collisions to the body mesh itself, i.e. the BSTriShape named "3BA".

32 minutes ago, LoneGentleman said:

My main objective is to create visual diversity by having unique body shapes for every follower. So obviously physics need to be diversified as well.

 

Right now I'd go with the assumption that the virtual collision mesh morphs properly, and not try to rewrite the entire thing. It sounds like you're assuming it doesn't work. Test first.

 

34 minutes ago, LoneGentleman said:

In the first place it doesn't appear that the virtual SMP armors don't support assigning different configs (xml) based on weight? I know CBPC can do that, when installing you can choose weight based bounce and amplitudes.

 

Weight and morphs are irrelevant in SMP, since all it cares about is where the vertices are. CBPC requires collision shapes to be manually set for weight 0 and weight 1, and it is not aware of morphs at all. CBPC is not fit for something like Obody where you might go from a 45kg plank to a 300kg "is this doorway wide enough" body.

 

I implemented morphs in my own build of CBPC by feeding it information from Papyrus. It's a workaround, and it's only set up for specific nodes.

 

39 minutes ago, LoneGentleman said:

And then increasing the follower breast size without building the collision armor again:

 

Apply the morphs in RaceMenu instead of BodySlide and it'll most likely match up. Build a base body in BS, and apply customizations in RM. There's no way for these systems to work properly if the virtual collision mesh is made for something else than the visual body. I'm fairly certain what Obody does is read BS presets and apply them through RM to a Zeroed Sliders base body. That's how I'd do it anyways.

[LoneGentleman]

44 minutes ago, traison said:

Apply the morphs in RaceMenu instead of BodySlide and it'll most likely match up. Build a base body in BS, and apply customizations in RM. There's no way for these systems to work properly if the virtual collision mesh is made for something else than the visual body. I'm fairly certain what Obody does is read BS presets and apply them through RM to a Zeroed Sliders base body. That's how I'd do it anyways.

 

Thank you, the details you gave are much appreciated. 

 

About that last part. I didn't know that I should build the body in RaceMenu in stead of BodySlide. But I can see how that would work since the morphs would apply to both the Physical Body Mesh and the SMP Collision Armor. Like a noob I just built every followers body in BodySlide. 

 

Also I very much assume oBody would do it this way too.

 

I'll need to go do some testing, if what you've told me is correct then I definitely shouldn't be having any issues with diverse bodies using oBody at all. 

 

Glad I asked, would've never just figured this out on my own. 

Edited June 28 by LoneGentleman

[traison]

19 minutes ago, LoneGentleman said:

I didn't know that I should build the body in RaceMenu in stead of BodySlide.

 

Other way around: build a mesh in BS and customize it in RM.

 

I do something similar in my own setup where I build a base mesh in BS that everyone uses, then I customize my own character in RM. I use RM's little known BodyGen feature to build custom followers and such. BodyGen is basically the same as OBody, perhaps with less features.

 

20 minutes ago, LoneGentleman said:

Like a noob I just built every followers body in BodySlide.

 

If the followers do not have their own virtual collision meshes then yeah that could be an issue. I don't remember if RM will allow you to change the morphs on a follower, but you can certainly do it through the NiOverride interface RM provides. That's accessible from Papyrus.

[LoneGentleman]

2 minutes ago, traison said:

Other way around: build a mesh in BS and customize it in RM.

 

That's what I meant, build zero'd slider in BS and then use RM to get the actual final result. 

 

For now I got to set up oBody and do some tests.