Request for a different kind of nipple

[Fredas]

I originally considered posting this in the Where Can I Find thread, but I ultimately decided that my question was too long and covered a topic that goes beyond my personal hankering.

 

Spent the last week familiarizing myself with what all seems to be available in Skyrim, body-wise.  A little background: I'm coming fresh off a final playthrough of FONV.  The body I found for New Vegas had a particular kind of nipples that is actually not too uncommon in real life and extremely common in manga / anime (I attribute this phenomenon to the comparative attractiveness of the nipples, much like bigger eyes are more attractive than commonly-sized eyes).  In a word, they're "puffy".

 

Every single Skyrim body I've seen in every screenshot has showcased nipples which remain essentially featureless (flat) on the areola, only extending beyond the breast at the actual nipple.  This has been a frustrating revelation.

 

Now, I invite you to examine the effect I speak of by taking a look at the character model I've been using in FONV:

 

 

Take a look at the profile of the nipples.  Note how the entire areola gets its own shape - not like a volcano but more like a fully concave suction cup.  By "concave" I mean to specifically point out that where the areola meets the breast, an angle is formed, much like how one is formed where the nipple meets the areola.  I hope this is clear.  After mentioning this model in another thread, I've had more than one person tell me that they were inspired to rethink their own character design choices.

 

Now there are two points to this thread.  The obvious point is to see if anyone knows whether someone has in fact taken one of the popular bodies and adjusted the nipples so that they match this look.  I know this would (probably?) generate clipping with any armors made for the unmodified body.  Concerns for another day. ;p

 

Second point?  As I said, I think this is a gaping hole in the repertoire of options available to Skyrim modders.  There are some extremely skilled 3d artists here, and I have seen some of them pump out entire armor sets in a lazy afternoon.  I have to imagine that such a person would be able to make quick work of this, if they were so inclined.

 

Finally of course there always exists the chance that I have overlooked something simple, despite my exhaustive screenshot hunt, and the look I've been discussing has been available all along with this or that tweak.  I won't discount this possibility.  I've hardly seen everything. ;p  In any event, thank you for taking the time to read this.

 

 

[Kalatorni]

Well, bodyslide++ have added some nip-related options (size, length etc) but I don't know how many different variants it can create. But the overall shape, well. Breast perkyness slider at least creates a nice illusion of "puffyness".

Here's my example of extremely exaggerated, über-hentainish breasts + nipples created with bodyslide++. Download NSFW image with caution, you hypocritical you XD

[hryh23k9823u]

I tried in bodyslide, and seems that you can get it (the pic is just an attempt, it's more tweakeable and maybe forgot to lift the nips a little, also the entire shape of the breast affects the final result so the puffy effect is the last thing you should modifyafter you get a desirable shape for the breasts), however, seems that the actual issue is texture not the shape. Seems that the zone affected by the perkiness effect is slightly bigger than the zone covered by most texture replacer, so it could be a matter of modifying the texture making the areolas a little bigger:

 

 

However it seems that we'll have new sliders for the areola soons so let's see what we can do then

[Fredas]

however, seems that the actual issue is texture not the shape. Seems that the zone affected by the perkiness effect is slightly bigger than the zone covered by most texture replacer, so it could be a matter of modifying the texture making the areolas a little bigger

 

Okay, first I'll say this is a good attempt.  It's closer to the suction cup look than any other screenshot I've seen.  But it cannot help but be recognized that one evidently has to jump through some hoops to even get that close.  You mention being careful about the shape of the breast.  In the Type 3F model picture I link, the nipples are a distinctly separate feature from the rest of the breasts, while the best that can be accomplished with BodySlide for now seems to be to produce an overall cone shape for the entire breast (since the size of the effective areola in your pic encompasses such a large area).  The point where the breast stops and the areola starts is not well defined - doesn't have a distinctive angle - because it apparently cannot be set up that way in the app.

 

However it seems that we'll have new sliders for the areola soons so let's see what we can do then 

 

Really?  I'll have to check out the thread and make sure the author is aware of what may needed to be implemented in order to achieve this particular look.  Thanks for the heads up.  (Though I admit I would strongly prefer a UNP-based solution. ;p )

[Phygnos]

UNP specifically, or UNPB etc?

Moving the verts outward would be pretty simple for me to do, but I need to know what mesh (and skeleton) you're using.

[hryh23k9823u]

Since UNP came out has become the favourite body mod, I think the idea behind 'UNP is the realistic one' lays behind the fact that it's default normals are more defined than CBBE's, however since they are realistic texture for both body types the myth is pretty covered. Also, all UNP shapes are currently included in CBBE Bodyslide. However in any case, I don't think they have those 'puffy nipps' at all, so maybe directly modifyng the mesh in blender is your only solution as Phygnos suggest.

[Fredas]

UNP specifically, or UNPB etc?

Moving the verts outward would be pretty simple for me to do, but I need to know what mesh (and skeleton) you're using.

 

Nice avatar.  You apparently know what you doing.

 

I'm in the pre-having-bought-my-second-copy-of-Skyrim phase right now (been waiting for a better deal than $60, but may bite the bullet soon anyway), so I haven't settled upon a particular model, though I'm about 75% confident that I would love to use the UNPBO for my main character and probably UNPB for regular NPCs.  Convenient that UNPBO comes packaged with so many armors, including, evidently, the one featured in the New Vegas screenshot in my OP (that surprised me).

 

Skeleton, haven't made it that far yet, but the author of UNPBO provides a skeleton (and their HDT xml) at the bottom of their OP in the UNPBO thread, and I would almost certainly use that.  For regular UNPB, I admit I can't point to anything specific but the idea certainly would be for it to be HDT compatible and probably also BBP because a combination of animations and physics seems to be the way to go to achieve the best results at this time.

 

Thank you for taking the time to read all this.

[Fredas]

Since UNP came out has become the favourite body mod, I think the idea behind 'UNP is the realistic one' lays behind the fact that it's default normals are more defined than CBBE's, however since they are realistic texture for both body types the myth is pretty covered. Also, all UNP shapes are currently included in CBBE Bodyslide.

 

I admit I haven't been able to jump in and start comparing, but when I look at this screenshot:

 

 

the sense I get is that UNPB was designed as a non-stocky alternative to CBBE.  Narrower shoulders with a more appealing curvature between shoulder and neck, more believable hip and thigh proportion, bigger gap between legs, longer fingers, etc.  CBBE here has better nipple placement, but it's hard to judge, given the angle of the shots.

 

I could be completely off base here, of course.

[hryh23k9823u]

Yeah, I too liked more UNP than CBBE, except for the breasts. Specially the hips and thighs are superior in UNP, in my opinion. However since I use Bodyslide I just make my own bodies which are far superior to all of those (Lol kidding, matter of taste). There is, though, a myriad of other body types that you may want to consider too: http://www.loverslab.com/topic/21228-favorite-body-replacer-v2/

 

 

Have a hard time :-D

 

Edit: Oh and about the fingers, it doesn't care, they are different mesh than the body, and all crap. Better use: http://www.loverslab.com/topic/24593-feminine-hands-cbbe-and-unp/

[Fredas]

Yeah, I too liked more UNP than CBBE, except for the breasts. Specially the hips and thighs are superior in UNP, in my opinion. However since I use Bodyslide I just make my own bodies which are far superior to all of those (Lol kidding, matter of taste).

 

The fact that UNPBO comes with armor that I'd definitely use (literally the same thing I used in FONV) is a strong point in its favor.  However, I can't deny that this page does a very good job of vindicating CBBE, to the point that I am completely torn now.  The question begs: If one changes the shape of the nipples in Blender so they're convex, what effect does this then have on BodySlide's sliders?

 

Incidentally, the lace armor in that link is amazing.  Maybe even choice #1 for my character.

 

There is, though, a myriad of other body types that you may want to consider too: http://www.loverslab.com/topic/21228-favorite-body-replacer-v2/

 

 

Have a hard time :-D

 

I know, right?  I just had a look at "Dream Girl" and it is fantastic.  Apart, of course, from the fact that it has no armor, hasn't been worked on for half a year, has small-ish breasts, and doesn't have convex nipples. ;p  The body itself is just so clean, though.

[Fredas]

UNP specifically, or UNPB etc?

 

Well here's a question for ya.  If you modified CBBE (the BodySlide 2 compatible one) to have convex nipples like on the Type 3F body, what would that do to BodySlide's sliders?  I ask because I'm seriously rethinking my plan of attack, as it were.  Argh.

[gvman3670]

 

UNP specifically, or UNPB etc?

Moving the verts outward would be pretty simple for me to do, but I need to know what mesh (and skeleton) you're using.

 

Nice avatar.  You apparently know what you doing.

 

I'm in the pre-having-bought-my-second-copy-of-Skyrim phase right now (been waiting for a better deal than $60, but may bite the bullet soon anyway), so I haven't settled upon a particular model, though I'm about 75% confident that I would love to use the UNPBO for my main character and probably UNPB for regular NPCs.  Convenient that UNPBO comes packaged with so many armors, including, evidently, the one featured in the New Vegas screenshot in my OP (that surprised me).

 

Skeleton, haven't made it that far yet, but the author of UNPBO provides a skeleton (and their HDT xml) at the bottom of their OP in the UNPBO thread, and I would almost certainly use that.  For regular UNPB, I admit I can't point to anything specific but the idea certainly would be for it to be HDT compatible and probably also BBP because a combination of animations and physics seems to be the way to go to achieve the best results at this time.

 

Thank you for taking the time to read all this.

 

 

Steam was just selling Skryim legendary for $34.99 recently. Don't know the current price, though.

 

My UNP body has puffy nipples I think. I'll have to go look again, but I thought they were puffy.

[Phygnos]

 

 UNPBO for my main character and probably UNPB for regular NPCs. 

 

Good lord, I swear there's a new body mod every other week.

How much do you want the nipple "out"?

Do you want the areola itself larger? etc etc

 

As an example, the white translucent area is what I've expanded it to, is that satisfactory or does it need more/less?

 

edit: and now i see the CBBE post.  Hmm, I think bodyslide itself can handle that nipple scaling/movement.

[Fredas]

Steam was just selling Skryim legendary for $34.99 recently. Don't know the current price, though.

 

How did I miss that?  It's $60 now, naturally.

 

My UNP body has puffy nipples I think. I'll have to go look again, but I thought they were puffy. 

 

If they're convex like in the Type 3F screenshot, that would be astonishing.

[hryh23k9823u]

 

 

 UNPBO for my main character and probably UNPB for regular NPCs. 

 

Good lord, I swear there's a new body mod every other week.

How much do you want the nipple "out"?

Do you want the areola itself larger? etc etc

 

Untitled.png

As an example, the white translucent area is what I've expanded it to, is that satisfactory or does it need more/less?

 

edit: and now i see the CBBE post.  Hmm, I think bodyslide itself can handle that nipple scaling/movement.

 

 

However not as puffy as in the picture. If were gonna edit something, it would be directly the mesh inside bodyslide/shapedata (or directly creating a puffynipple slider, however that's out of my knowledge).

[Fredas]

 

 

How much do you want the nipple "out"?

Do you want the areola itself larger? etc etc

 

Untitled.png

As an example, the white translucent area is what I've expanded it to, is that satisfactory or does it need more/less?

 

Well the whole idea is to cause the entire areola to have a convex shape, like so:

 

 

visualize that affixed over a preexisting nipple and you get the picture.  The nipple itself need only extend as far above this convex shape as it originally did above the non-modified areola.  The areola itself needn't change in dimensions.  It might be illustrative to grab the actual Type 3F .nif and scrutinize its nipples to see how they achieved the look they did.  I've done this.

 

 

Maybe even just steal the entire design and port it over. ;p

 

edit: and now i see the CBBE post.  Hmm, I think bodyslide itself can handle that nipple scaling/movement.

 

As has been pointed out, BodySlide is not currently capable of achieving the above effect.  I've made a post in the BodySlide thread, however, so perhaps they will look into it.

[Fredas]

 

edit: and now i see the CBBE post.  Hmm, I think bodyslide itself can handle that nipple scaling/movement.

 

However not as puffy as in the picture. If were gonna edit something, it would be directly the mesh inside bodyslide/shapedata (or directly creating a puffynipple slider, however that's out of my knowledge).

 

A puffynipple slider would be the best solution.  A slider which would literally force a transition between the flat default look and a slight angle between the breast and the areola, forcing a convex shape.

[Fredas]

So I recently read that "Dream Girl" is "supported" in BodySlide 2.0 (as is, apparently, UNPB) and this means that I will definitely be using that amazing body for NPCs.  Somehow, BodySlide and/or Outfit Studio will enable all armor to be portable to Dream Girl.  I will make it happen (or somebody will ;p ).  Naturally, the breasts on Dream Girl are just not adequate for my main character... and there's the everpresent issue with the nipples. :/

[Monsto Brukes]

here's what i have  (0 weight, 100 weight)

 

 

 

 

 

 

Nipple Perkiness slider 200% - 250% plus custom skin. 

 

My suggestion? Don't get hung up, today, on something that Bodyslide 2 does not have. The tool has been out for like 2 weeks and there's a pretty long (but unpublished) list of features that are yet to come. 

 

Take it, use it, enjoy it for what it is today as opposed to lamenting the single missing feature.

 

And you know what else? it's a tool that's made for people that want to -- and i say this in all sincerity -- "fuck around". Download it, fuck around. 

 

[Fredas]

here's what i have  (0 weight, 100 weight)

 

 

 

 

 

 

Nipple Perkiness slider 200% - 250% plus custom skin. 

 

That's not bad.  Best that can currently be done with BodySlide, I would guess.  (It's starting to look like there may be a dearth of vertices in the nipples, compared to the old New Vegas model I've been using.)

 

My suggestion? Don't get hung up, today, on something that Bodyslide 2 does not have. The tool has been out for like 2 weeks and there's a pretty long (but unpublished) list of features that are yet to come. 

 

Take it, use it, enjoy it for what it is today as opposed to lamenting the single missing feature.

 

Well, the purpose of this thread is not any particular focus on BodySlide; it's been getting attention because it represents the best future hope of realizing this look, but I am hardly hanging all my hopes on it.

 

Just now, I randomly discovered that the "CBBE Manga" body happens to feature the convex nipples I've been talking about:

 

 

 

(Mainly focus on the 100% weight images and the profile of the nipple to see what I mean.)  Now, it's a little moot since this body's proportions are completely not what I'm personally after, and it's a bit of an unknown and unsupported body regardless (and the nipples themselves have some sort of Pac Man-like pit in them), but the point is that somebody did in fact make a point of constructing the areola to achieve the convex look.  Perhaps a successful reconstruction of an existing body's areola could be something as simple as stealing the vertices from the Manga body.

[Fredas]

I've taken a moment to look at the meshes for a couple of popular Skyrim bodies and I've discovered that they seem to use about half the number of vertices as the Type 3F body from New Vegas - and especially the nipples seem to be impoverished, with maybe 1/4th as many vertices.  This goes a long way in explaining why it always seems like nipples in Skyrim seem to be lacking in detail.  I'm surprised by this, since we are talking about comparing Skyrim with Fallout New Vegas.

 

Right now, at the very least, it may end up being for the best if the nipples from Type 3F are literally superimposed in place of the detail-starved nipples on any given Skyrim body.  But I wonder if this would end up conflicting with mods, or certain apps (BodySlide), etc.  For example, is the number of vertices something that BodySlide relies upon in order to function?  It's outside of my expertise.

 

[hryh23k9823u]

I'm not sure, I think the two popular body bases (caliente's and unp's) are about 6.000 polygons? That's still quite a lot and enough for what you need. Skyrim has several distinct layers of textures that Fallout doesnt that helps a lot more to realism than just ultra-polygon count.

 

However I just realized how easy actually was to make new sliders in the new bodyslide ;o

 

 

(It took me 5 seconds, make it 10 and can be improved it a lot...)

[EternalDamned]

What I want to know, is when can we get frostfall aware nipples? You know, so when you are cold, it shows. That would be the shit!

[hryh23k9823u]

Holy shit. Indeed.

[Monsto Brukes]

I'm not sure, I think the two popular body bases (caliente's and unp's) are about 6.000 polygons? That's still quite a lot and enough for what you need. Skyrim has several distinct layers of textures that Fallout doesnt that helps a lot more to realism than just ultra-polygon count.

 

However I just realized how easy actually was to make new sliders in the new bodyslide ;o

 

puffynipples.jpg

 

(It took me 5 seconds, make it 10 and can be improved it a lot...)

 

you wanna explain how you did that?