Request for a different kind of nipple

[hryh23k9823u]

Ah, quite simple. Slider > New Slider

Click on that slider to preview 100% (same as previewing outfits to correct clipping) > Use the brushes

 

Well before that you load a reference body, but twice, once as a reference and the second like it was an outfit. Then "save as..." to create the new sliderset (don't export the reference). Now you can use your new sliderset to create your bodyreplacer in bodyslide, as always, but with the new slider added. Also you can load the sliderset again but as reference, and conform revealing outfits to the slidersets (incluing your own).

 

(I didn't actually saved the one from the pic cause it was poorly done, just as a demonstration)

[Fredas]

I'm not sure, I think the two popular body bases (caliente's and unp's) are about 6.000 polygons?

 

I just checked.  UNPB has 6850 vertices, which is respectable, and explains why it manages to be so evidently superior in detail.  CBBE has 3471 vertices, which in turn explains why harsh angles are the name of the game with said body.  Type 3F from Fallout New Vegas has 8949 vertices, and reserves a generous chunk of those for the nipples.

 

That's still quite a lot and enough for what you need. Skyrim has several distinct layers of textures that Fallout doesnt that helps a lot more to realism than just ultra-polygon count.

 

Sure, I figured something like that was going on.  But it doesn't change the fact that closer scrutiny - precisely the kind of scrutiny people like us will be devoting to our female creations - quickly uncovers the consequences of fewer polygons. ;p

 

However I just realized how easy actually was to make new sliders in the new bodyslide ;o

 

BodySlide is an impressive piece of work, I must say.  Your image gives me both hope and despair.  Hope because it means BodySlide does have at least some potential for creating the kind of result I am after, but despair because it underscores the problem with CBBE's lack of vertices.  You can't get a good sense of an areola that's standing sharply out with only a small number of vertices to work with.

 

On the other hand, Dream Girl, which is supposedly "supported" by BodySlide, has a few more vertices (4024) and the mesh differs to a certain degree at the nipples.  This tells me that as long as BodySlide "supports" a given body, it does so in a transparent fashion which isn't reliant on a specific number / positioning of vertices.  So now what would be a big help would be if BodySlide were to support UNPB.

 

And this begs the question: If one makes a change to their CBBE body (or whatever is supported) with BodySlide, is this accurately reflected in the armor?  I mean, I guess it should be obvious that if they change their character's breast size, the armor is supposed to change accordingly, but how about if they change how their character's nipples stand out?

[hryh23k9823u]

Well Fallouts run in a considerable lower poly count than Skyrim, and lot less textures (both in size and number), so making a overkill poly count body replacer when you aren't even gonna put normal maps on it because the game doesn't allow it, it's something that can be handled in our modern computers. However, I really find exagerated calling CB 'angled'. My previous pic was intentionally posted in low quiality jpg, even the texts are angled ;p But yeah, in both case the vertices a around the nipple area are sufficient to make nipples 'puffy' like in your screen, happens that in outfit studio you can't move vertices (yet?) only using a brush, that is quite configurable but as I said, 5 secons...

 

A better picture from both body types:

 

 

 

 

 

 

As you can see, even CB is overkill. There's a reason for the actual videogame companies to have artists exclusively dedicated to lower the polygon number of the models as they are done by the modelers. And also why they invented normal maps, a texture that is responsable for the 90% of the final result of a 3D model in therms of detail. Check my custom CB body with a exagerated (yet illustrative) musculature, how the muscular normal adds tons of 3D looking details to the body without adding a single vertice. And the screenshot was taken at the lower game settings (except for the textures, preciselly).

 

Also there's a limit in what Skyrim can handle (cause despite the improvements, it the same engine than Oblivion/Fallout), and many mods -that obviously are the job of amateur folks- sadly comes with excesive meshes or poorly optimized textures and minmaps. Result: CDT's.

 

 

 

On the other hand, Dream Girl, which is supposedly "supported" by BodySlide, has a few more vertices (4024) and the mesh differs to a certain degree at the nipples.  This tells me that as long as BodySlide "supports" a given body, it does so in a transparent fashion which isn't reliant on a specific number / positioning of vertices.  So now what would be a big help would be if BodySlide were to support UNPB.

 

And this begs the question: If one makes a change to their CBBE body (or whatever is supported) with BodySlide, is this accurately reflected in the armor?  I mean, I guess it should be obvious that if they change their character's breast size, the armor is supposed to change accordingly, but how about if they change how their character's nipples stand out?

 

 

Bodyslide, as it is, only works with Caliente Body. However Caliente (the author), as included the new Outfit Studio and including compatibility to make conversions of armors between different body types, and they are adding support for more at the moment. However, you can only convert something into a sliderset converting it into CB base. I don't know at the moment if somehow Outfit Studio can create a sliderset for the UNP version of Bodyslide, but they haven't updated that bodyslide lately.

 

And your presets (your custom bodies) can be used to create batch builds for all the armors that have slidersets, and they will have the shape of your preset. It is just a couple of clicks and that is done with Bodyslide. However if you add a custom slider, let's say for the nipples, I think you need to add that info to the armors that contains revealing nipples before, which is another couple of clicks in Outfit Studio.

 

[hryh23k9823u]

But at the end, UNPB is a great body replacer with many armors already converted for it. So finally going for the manual vertices edit like Phygnos suggested if you wanna stick with UNPB, could your best shot. Then, for UNPB armors that reveals nipples, you just replace the body mesh in the outfit, put the modified UNPB instead of the default. You dont need to care about armors that doesn't show nipples, actually (unless they are cloth and you want them to 'reveal' the pointy shape).

[Fredas]

Well Fallouts run in a considerable lower poly count than Skyrim, and lot less textures (both in size and number), so making a overkill poly count body replacer when you aren't even gonna put normal maps on it because the game doesn't allow it, it's something that can be handled in our modern computers.

 

Correction: Far as I can tell, normal maps are integral to FONV's body/face rendering.  In fact this particular facet of the body customization consumed days of my time as I struggled to find and modify a normal map to my liking.

 

However, I really find exagerated calling CB 'angled'. My previous pic was intentionally posted in low quiality jpg, even the texts are angled ;p But yeah, in both case the vertices a around the nipple area are sufficient to make nipples 'puffy' like in your screen

 

Oh it can get the job done.  Manga Body does it with a similarly low polygon count at the nipples.  I am saying that it can't be done to the same level of satisfaction as what can be achieved with a high polygon count, as with Type 3F.  The closer you look, the blockier it gets.  You want closeups with Type 3F?  Go for it; get as close as you like.  CBBE?  Better keep about six feet back.  And particularly, if you're forced to achieve the look with sliders rather than specifying particular angles at particular vertices, that can only compound the problem.

 

 

 

 

 

As you can see, even CB is overkill.

 

It only looks like overkill at these comfortable distances.  Great for a screenshot of the entire body, but that is not necessarily all a person wants out of their model.  Your image really underscores CBBE's problem: The nipples in particular should be absolutely thick with vertices, as they are with UNPB, because those are two of the only focal points of angular detail in the entire mesh (the crotch being a third).  (Besides, what would be "underkill"?  The original Tomb Raider's Lara Croft? ;p )

 

There's a reason for the actual videogame companies to have artists exclusively dedicated to lower the polygon number of the models as they are done by the modelers.

 

Of course.  It's because they want to ensure that people with ten year old hardware - be it PC or outdated console - can still buy their game.  CBBE's low poly count is clearly inspired by similar constraints.  That doesn't change the fact that it is the result of a sacrifice. ;p

 

But at the end, UNPB is a great body replacer with many armors already converted for it. So finally going for the manual vertices edit like Phygnos suggested if you wanna stick with UNPB, could your best shot. 

 

This feels like the best solution.  The problem is that I am not experienced with such things, and even if somebody paid me to do it, I could see it easily soaking up a solid month of my time as I figured everything out, and the result would probably not ever be satisfactory.  I wouldn't even know where to begin.  Best possible bet would be to somehow copy the entire areola from Type 3F and use it to replace UNPB's areolae.  Even that much is beyond me.

 

Then, for UNPB armors that reveals nipples, you just replace the body mesh in the outfit, put the modified UNPB instead of the default. You dont need to care about armors that doesn't show nipples, actually (unless they are cloth and you want them to 'reveal' the pointy shape).

 

Yes, that.  Cloth that reveals the multi-rippled pointy shape.  An absolute must.  You have to agree. ;p

 

[hryh23k9823u]

However Skyrim limitations can't be helped by a good computer, the limitations remains in the program, not in the system that runs it

 

The vertices in both cases, are enough to make what you need, I can assure you that, but it's true that some zones of CB are angulated in the breasts, specially lower zone of the breasts, and that sucks fore close up screenshots. I use Mod Organizer so I can switch mods profiles by a single click, diferent lits of mods for different savegames, I used to have profiles only with graphic mods, for screenshoting, and other one with heavy scripted mods, gameplay and content. Hardly you can have both in Skyrim. ENB Boost and other tweaks helps a lot, though, but lots of poly counts, and 4k & 8k textures, is pretty much turning off other additions to a regular mod build. UNPB is playable, though.

[Fredas]

lots of poly counts, and 4k & 8k textures, is pretty much turning off other additions to a regular mod build. UNPB is playable, though.

 

My decision to (probably) use Dream Girl as my NPC replacer, and a high-poly body only for my own character, is my concession to the limitations of the Skyrim engine.  (Actually it's more a concession to my goal of maintaining 60fps, but same difference.)  As far as high-detail textures go, these are frankly a must, and it again comes down to what happens when you closely scrutinize something, such as breasts.  Nothing bugs me more than seeing the "detail" on nipples rendered as an indistinct smear.  I want to make my R9 290X work, so bring on the big textures, I say.  (I'll modify them to my personal liking one way or another, just as I did with FONV. ;p )

[Monsto Brukes]

Ah, quite simple. Slider > New Slider

Click on that slider to preview 100% (same as previewing outfits to correct clipping) > Use the brushes

 

Well before that you load a reference body, but twice, once as a reference and the second like it was an outfit. Then "save as..." to create the new sliderset (don't export the reference). Now you can use your new sliderset to create your bodyreplacer in bodyslide, as always, but with the new slider added. Also you can load the sliderset again but as reference, and conform revealing outfits to the slidersets (incluing your own).

 

(I didn't actually saved the one from the pic cause it was poorly done, just as a demonstration)

 

heh no offense dude, but I have no idea what you just said. . . 

 

I spent a few mins reading it out loud and deciphering. I have come up with this. . . 

1. load your body as a ref
2. load your body as an outfit
3. slider > new slider
4. click on the slider to preview 100% > use the brushes (huh?)

[hryh23k9823u]

Well, load CalienteAdvanced (TBBP or whatever) both as a reference (the xml) and as outfit (the nif inside shapedata folder), click on the second body and conform to sliders. Then, there are two brushes you use to manipulate the mesh in Outfit Studio, one to increase and one to decrease the mesh size, usually you use them to correct clipping in the outfits, right? So when you create a new slider, let's say "PuffyNipples", zap it to put it at 100% and modify the mesh (the nipples in this case) with the brushes, so the slider will look like that in 100%. Then "save as..." with the correct ouput path / file name (character assets, femalebody, etc.) and you'll have that new sliderset (the default sliders + your own) ready to use in bodyslide.

[hryh23k9823u]

Oh and by the way, Fredas, just found that you can use any other body type in bodyslide 2 (including UNPB) if you use the same technique to create a sliderset for it.

[Fredas]

Oh and by the way, Fredas, just found that you can use any other body type in bodyslide 2 (including UNPB) if you use the same technique to create a sliderset for it.

 

Huh.  If that's true, it would be potentially huge.  (Depends on how much better a job can be done in the app towards producing the puffy areola effect.  No offense to your brief efforts, but they're not quite there yet.  )  But why is it that this possibility was so buried that the first I heard of it was due to a random discovery? ;p  If it really works as well as you suggest, then a tutorial is desperately needed, because I know I am far from the only person who would love to have BodySlide2 control something more than CBBE.

[hryh23k9823u]

As I told you (but you dont seem to believe me) the puffy nipples with the defined angle in the 'seam' between the nipple and the breast is perfectly achievable in CB aswell, but I dont know how to export from blender two nif However I was curios more because the vertices reason actually, and if you can get both things, more vertices and puffy nipples at once, better for you i think

 

I'll try to upload later a unp with slidersets and puffy effect

[hryh23k9823u]

Ok this is UNP working in Bodyslide 2, includes belly node + tbbp, and puffy nipples (let's say puffy nipples 1.0 haha...)

 

Preview in Outfit Studio (definetively the 'angled' effect is the lack of post procesing in Outfit Studio, cause UNP looks worse even with more vertices)

 

 

 

Preview in Bodyslide itself (the texture is one 8k, so looks like cyrrhosis, but again, ingame looks like intended; showing with CBBE preset to better stand out the bodyslide capability)

 

 

 

Archive (to install like that with MO, or manually inside skyrim/data)

 

UNPBase.7z

[toshiyougan]

this is "kinda" related and might be a weird question but is there a way to remove the nipples?

there are plenty of armors where the nipples keeps on popping over it, maybe someone knows a body skin for this?

[Fredas]

Ok this is UNP working in Bodyslide 2, includes belly node + tbbp, and puffy nipples (let's say puffy nipples 1.0 haha...)

 

Well I have to say you have my sincere appreciation for all the work you've put into this.  I almost feel guilty. ;p  If I were to judge, it just seems like BodySlide2 doesn't currently provide the right kind of manipulation which would enable the puffy look.  The areolae in your model are puffed out more or less, but what happened to the actual nipples?  BodySlide made them disappear. ;p  Or maybe it would be more accurate to say that the areolae replaced the nipples?  It all just feels like limitations of the app, and who can really blame it?  Unless the app was coded specifically to enable this particular puffy look, I don't envision a slider really filling that gap.

 

Side note: That's a little disheartening that Outfit Studio's preview image is so.. misleading would be the word.  What do you do, constantly cross-reference with BodySlide's more accurate representation?  That's what I would probably end up doing.

[Fredas]

this is "kinda" related and might be a weird question but is there a way to remove the nipples?

there are plenty of armors where the nipples keeps on popping over it, maybe someone knows a body skin for this?

 

If it were me, I would probably generate a custom version of the mesh that smoothes out the nipples, and find a way to replace the body used in the armor.  If it's not a full-body armor, or it's see through or something, well, I'd probably think long and hard about how much I like the armor, and then if it turns out I can't live without it, I'd probably start moving vertices around. ;p

[Pickpay]

Ah, quite simple. Slider > New Slider

Click on that slider to preview 100% (same as previewing outfits to correct clipping) > Use the brushes

 

Well before that you load a reference body, but twice, once as a reference and the second like it was an outfit. Then "save as..." to create the new sliderset (don't export the reference). Now you can use your new sliderset to create your bodyreplacer in bodyslide, as always, but with the new slider added. Also you can load the sliderset again but as reference, and conform revealing outfits to the slidersets (incluing your own).

 

(I didn't actually saved the one from the pic cause it was poorly done, just as a demonstration)

 

Is it possible to integrate a new slider into a custom preset ? If so would you mind going through the steps. Been trying for hours....

[hryh23k9823u]

 

Ah, quite simple. Slider > New Slider

Click on that slider to preview 100% (same as previewing outfits to correct clipping) > Use the brushes

 

Well before that you load a reference body, but twice, once as a reference and the second like it was an outfit. Then "save as..." to create the new sliderset (don't export the reference). Now you can use your new sliderset to create your bodyreplacer in bodyslide, as always, but with the new slider added. Also you can load the sliderset again but as reference, and conform revealing outfits to the slidersets (incluing your own).

 

(I didn't actually saved the one from the pic cause it was poorly done, just as a demonstration)

 

Is it possible to integrate a new slider into a custom preset ? If so would you mind going through the steps. Been trying for hours....

 

 

presets dont integrate sliders but information about how they treat the sliders available to the body/bodies associated with that presets (breast 50%; belly 30%, etc.) you just need your preset to be associated to a body/group that includes your slider. So in bodyslide load the body that contains the new slider and use your preset. If your preset won't appear there, load another body, select your preset and resave it but click all the groups plus the group your new body containing the slider is, usually unassigned).

 

[hryh23k9823u]

this is "kinda" related and might be a weird question but is there a way to remove the nipples?

there are plenty of armors where the nipples keeps on popping over it, maybe someone knows a body skin for this?

 

Easiest way (only Bodyslide) is using the slider "NipplesBgone", they make dissapear the nipples and its included in CalienteUndies sets.

 

[hryh23k9823u]

 

Ok this is UNP working in Bodyslide 2, includes belly node + tbbp, and puffy nipples (let's say puffy nipples 1.0 haha...)

 

Well I have to say you have my sincere appreciation for all the work you've put into this.  I almost feel guilty. ;p  If I were to judge, it just seems like BodySlide2 doesn't currently provide the right kind of manipulation which would enable the puffy look.  The areolae in your model are puffed out more or less, but what happened to the actual nipples?  BodySlide made them disappear. ;p  Or maybe it would be more accurate to say that the areolae replaced the nipples?  It all just feels like limitations of the app, and who can really blame it?  Unless the app was coded specifically to enable this particular puffy look, I don't envision a slider really filling that gap.

 

Side note: That's a little disheartening that Outfit Studio's preview image is so.. misleading would be the word.  What do you do, constantly cross-reference with BodySlide's more accurate representation?  That's what I would probably end up doing.

 

 

Well, maybe they will allow vertice manipulation in the future, like ECE with the faces, because with the brush can't be done at the state of perfection. The nipples are "eaten" by the puffy areolae, however you still can make the nipple tip longer with the nipplelength slider. Though it pulls the rest of the areola aswell. That could be also avoided if OutfitStudio will allow to directly move the vertices and not "painting" and area.

 

As for the preview quality. I dont think is misleading, thecnically speaking, its a 3d tool (make to be used by folks without actual knowledge of the tools to make simple outfit/armors mods and conversiones), but as such, it shows the meshes as they are. And its sufficient for its main purpose that is converting outfits, aswell as its brush, it was designed to fix clipping issues when you make a conversion by just panting the clipping zones. However wasn't designed for this stuff, but I think they could make a vertices edit option because currently Outfit Studio its a nightmare to convert outfits that comes with tiny details, like little piercings and chains.

 

[Mdy]

thanks for sharing that preset, Lother.

Been playing around with that and got a neck seem now. Is there a way to deal with that?

[hryh23k9823u]

Use the a texure replacement that comes with both texture for the body and for the face, and use Caliente's Texblend to blend the seams. Rember that textures you need to use are for UNP, since this isnt a preset, but the actual UNP.

[Mdy]

Pardon me for the horrible description. There should be 2 kinds of neck seem, a texture seem and a mesh seem.

I'm talking about a visible mesh gap between head and body mesh.

 

 

 

 

 

[hryh23k9823u]

Yeah that is also hapening when converting UNP clothes to CBBE. I dont know what is causing it, maybe ask for help in the support tread?

[Fredas]

currently Outfit Studio its a nightmare to convert outfits that comes with tiny details, like little piercings and chains.

 

Ah yes, I bet I know what you're talking about.  Things like rings, or other hard bits, which aren't meant to stretch like the fabric, but they ended up stretching so you have to tweak it so they don't.  Something like that?

 

That's something I've been noticing lately with screenshots.  When the characters do poses, their limbs move out of neutral position, and this of course stretches the armor mesh / textures in unnatural ways, but especially when it comes to anything that's supposed to be a hard material, like metal rings.  It stretches right along with everything else.  So I've often wondered if armor meshes couldn't be constructed in a way so that the hard bits never stretch when manipulated by the skeleton.  (Obviously this is all quite off-topic. ;p )