ExodusTransonicMercury Posted March 14, 2025 Posted March 14, 2025 (edited) Hi everyone! I'm really in advance for this post, I haven't been able to pinpoint the issue (that seems so widespread on my setup it must be something excessively simple), not to find a search prompt leading to any potential leads. Finding a title wasn't easy and this one sucks, thanks you for clicking. I expect being called stoopid, and I'm pretty sure I deserve it. Solved: Easy fix : adding the correct race (and not "Default") in Morph Race in "copied data" in the "General" panel of race edition (I somehow mixed them up). Fix by @traison by tinkering files. I've been redoing my modding setup (reinstalled MO2 2.4, MO2 2.5 had errors for me, and somehow prevented me from loading any mod of my making). I'm currently experiencing an unseen issue that I can't pinpoint the origin (I have seemingly no problem on orcs, non-Breton humans, beastraces, and childrace, and everything bellow will concern only Elves and Bretons) : My custom races based on Bretons or Elves don't have elves ears. I'm on SSE 1.5.97 I use High Poly Head 1.4, and Aesthetic Elves. Mods and plugins order listed bellow. As said above: My custom races based on Bretons or Elves don't have elves ears. Vanilla and high poly head parts are unchanged on vanilla races (elves have long pointed ears, Aesthetic Elves adds small pointed ears to Bretons) Using vanilla head parts on custom races returns it to the "default" (round ears) Duplicate of head parts behave similarly (pointed ears for vanilla races, round ears for custom ears) I've reinstalled High Poly Head and Aesthetic Elves (fresh download), tried with and without Aesthetic Elves (I've installed High Poly Head with and without Aesthetic Elves) I've set the headparts formlists for my custom races to use their template race and other (Custom bretons are added in some elven formlists, custom elves are added to their template and some other elven formlisr. I don't recall ever having to modify tri files precedently to have it working Loot doesn't show anythink related (the only warning is XPMSSE who fail to recognize the FNIS plugin from Pandora) If that's relevant?: I've previously had RaceCompatibility (never as dependency) and the Unofficial Patch (as dependency), but both are out of my LO and are not required. This a custom Dwemer female (darkelfrace duplicated). Using "default", or my custom DeepElfFemaleHead, or the vanilla DarkElfFemaleHead and HighElfFemaleHead, will render the exact same. The high poly version has the same issue, though you can notice the mesh is better. Male Dwemer My mods order Spoiler *DLC: Dawnguard *DLC: HearthFires *DLC: Dragonborn +Skyrim - Meshes BSA unpacked +Address Library for SKSE Plugins 1.5.X +SSE Engine Fixes (skse64 plugin) 5.9.1 reinstall +SkyUI 5.2 SE (includes MCM) +SkyUI SE - Flashing Savegames Fix +UIExtensions +PapyrusUtil SE - Modders Scripting Utility Functions +ConsoleUtilSSE NG +Backported Extended ESL Support +Stay At The System Page - AE for ALL +Crash Logger SSE AE VR - PDB support +JContainers SE +Actor Limit Fix +Animated Static Reload Fix +Animation Limit Crash Fix SSE +Animation Queue Fix +Base Coat (Free FPS) +Bug Fixes SSE +Grass FPS Booster +Instant Container Access +NVIDIA Reflex Support +powerofthree's Tweaks 1.13.1 +powerofthree's Papyrus Extender +Papyrus Tweaks NG +PrivateProfileRedirector SE - Faster game start (INI file cacher) +Scrambled Bugs +Shadow Boost +Skyrim Priority SE AE - CPU Performance FPS Optimizer +SSE Display Tweaks +SSE Fixes +SSE FPS Stabilizer +Vanilla Script (micro)Optimizations +Vanilla Scripting Enhancements +Spell Perk Item Distributor +AddItemMenu - Ultimate Mod Explorer +Random Alternate Start - the Final Omen +More Informative Console 1.2.2 +Heels Fix +Heels Sound 1.5 SSE +Pandora Behaviour Engine Plus +BodySlide and Outfit Studio - v5.7.0 +RaceMenu +Race Menu Player Rotation +XP32 Maximum Skeleton Special Extended 5.06 +Faster HDT-SMP +Aesthetic Elves +High Poly Head v1.4 (SE) +Caliente's Beautiful Bodies Enhancer -CBBE- 2.0.3 +CBBE 3BA +CBPC 3-Bone Breast Body Breast-Butt Bounce Configs for 3BA-BHUNP-COCO 1.6.3 +300 CBBE 3BA Presets for OBody +ZAZ Animation Packs for SE 2023 - ZAZ 7.0SE-Rev1 +ZAZ Animation Packs for SE 2023 - ZAZpatch +ZAZ Animation Pack 8+ CBBE HDT V.8.0+SEREV3 (ZAP) +SexLabFrameworkSE_v163 (for SE) +Beyond Skyrim - Assets - Bruma V1.6.3 +Beyond Skyrim - Bruma SE V1.6.3 +Beyond Skyrim - DLC Integration Patch 1.6.2 for 1.6.3 +[SunJeong] Ninirim Collection +[SunJeong] Ninirim Collection 6.0 3BA +TAWOBA (The Amazing World of Bikini Armor) REMASTERED CBBE SE +The Expanded World of Bikini Armors (TEWOBA) +ETM - Beyond the Veil +Pandora Output +Bodyslide Output current +Bodyslide Output 3BA +SKSE plugins Output I'm aware there's one ZAP mod too many here, my mod need 8+ to load correctly) My plugins order Spoiler 0 0 Skyrim.esm 1 1 Update.esm 2 2 Dawnguard.esm 3 3 HearthFires.esm 4 4 Dragonborn.esm 254 FE 0 Vanilla Script MicroOptimizations.esl 254 FE 1 Vanilla Scripts Enhanced.esl 5 5 Schlongs of Skyrim - Core.esm 6 6 BSAssets.esm 7 7 BSHeartland.esm 8 8 BS_DLC_patch.esp 9 9 Heels Sound.esm 10 a SexLab.esm 11 b High Poly Head.esm 12 c ZaZAnimationPack.esm 13 d SkyUI_SE.esp 14 e UIExtensions.esp 15 f AddItemMenuSE.esp 254 FE 2 RandomAlt.Start-Skyrim.esp 16 10 FNIS.esp 17 11 RaceMenu.esp 18 12 RaceMenuPlugin.esp 254 FE 3 CBBE.esp 19 13 RaceMenuMorphsCBBE.esp 254 FE 4 Grass FPS Booster.esp 20 14 SOSRaceMenu.esp 21 15 XPMSE.esp 254 FE 5 FSMPM - The FSMP MCM.esp 22 16 Schlongs of Skyrim.esp 23 17 SOS - Smurf Average Addon.esp 24 18 SOS - VectorPlexus Muscular Addon.esp 25 19 SOS - VectorPlexus Regular Addon.esp 254 FE 6 3BBB.esp 254 FE 7 SOSPhysicsManager.esp 26 1a [SunJeong] Ninirim Collection.esp 27 1b The Amazing World of Bikini Armors REMASTERED.esp 254 FE 8 (Pumpkin)-TEWOBA-TheExpandedWorldofBikiniArmor.esp 254 FE 9 HeelsFix.esp 28 1c ZAZpatch.esp 29 1d High Poly Head Vampire Fix.esp 30 1e ETMBeyondTheVeil.esp Bashed Patch, 0.esp ETMBeyondTheVeil is my mod, which is dependent on ZAP, High Poly Head, TAWOBA, BS:Bruma, and Ninirin. All humans and elves facepart link to the same model ([male/female]Head.nif, in their respective vanilla or High Poly filepaths). I assume some INI and tri files rule over this, but I never had to tinker there before to have it working in CK and in-game. Given that I have no missing ESP, that it worked before, that there is no overwriting (apart Aesthetic Elves which overwrites 4 tri vanilla files) that I've downloaded fresh version, and that the issue affects only custom stuff on my end, I assume I've missed some hidden dependency or some fixes mod. the files overwritten by Aesthetic Elves, but I assume that's normal and given there's an option for Aesthetic Elves, and Aesthetic Elves appear to function correctly, I don't think the error is here) Could anyone lend a hand here, I'm a bit confused (and I prefer to halt anything before having solved this, I intend to finally have modding and game load orders set and working, from which to work towards more specific load orders). Thanks ! Edited March 15, 2025 by ExodusTransonicMercury solved
traison Posted March 14, 2025 Posted March 14, 2025 4 hours ago, ExodusTransonicMercury said: Loot doesn't show anythink related As far as I know all LOOT does is download a plugin order master list, and then it compares your load order to it. LOOT is not a utility that will sort out plugin conflicts for you. It gets commonly used mods in a decent order, that's about it. Another way of saying that is that a LOOT sorted order could still be completely broken. 4 hours ago, ExodusTransonicMercury said: I'm currently experiencing an unseen issue that I can't pinpoint the origin (I have seemingly no problem on orcs, non-Breton humans, beastraces, and childrace, and everything bellow will concern only Elves and Bretons) : My custom races based on Bretons or Elves don't have elves ears. ... <lots of races, lots of missing ears> ... My advice would be to focus on one race. Get it working as it should, then start adding funny ears to Bretons and such. 4 hours ago, ExodusTransonicMercury said: Using "default", or... or... or... or High Poly Head... Again my advice would be to focus on one. Get it working as it should, then adapt to other head shapes. The issue with bouncing between head shapes is that unless you also get the tri files for these, things like morphs will undoubtedly break. Using the vanilla HighElf as an example: [00] Skyrim.esm (7CAB85A9) \ Head Part \ 0005161E <FemaleHeadHighElf> References the vanilla head mesh at: Actors\Character\Character Assets\FemaleHead.nif The ear morph for the vanilla head mesh is in: Actors\Character\Character Assets\FemaleHeadRaces.tri -> femaleheadraces_HighElfRace.obj So: Make sure the head mesh you're using is compatible with the obj files in the race morphs tri file. Make sure the race morphs tri file you're using has a morph for the race you're using. At this point I would assume its going by the femaleheadraces_<race editor id>.obj format. 1
ExodusTransonicMercury Posted March 14, 2025 Author Posted March 14, 2025 (edited) 1 hour ago, traison said: As far as I know all LOOT does is download a plugin order master list, and then it compares your load order to it. LOOT is not a utility that will sort out plugin conflicts for you. It gets commonly used mods in a decent order, that's about it. Another way of saying that is that a LOOT sorted order could still be completely broken. Yes, I'm aware of this, it's just that I'm used to people pointing to basic advices, so I mention such steps (along with my mods and plugins orders) from the beginning to avoid people talking to me about Loot when I'm looking for a lead to solve an issue (Loot does provide hindsight on some missing or recommended mods though). 1 hour ago, traison said: ... <lots of races, lots of missing ears> ... My advice would be to focus on one race. Get it working as it should, then start adding funny ears to Bretons and such. Again my advice would be to focus on one. Get it working as it should, then adapt to other head shapes. Using "default", or... or... or... or High Poly Head... 1 elven race and 1 breton race, and seemingly just 1 problem overall. I tested stuff (=headparts) to figure if the issue was limited to some cases, which is doesn't appear to be (=custom races are bugged with modded and vanilla assets, vanilla races aren't). 1 hour ago, traison said: The issue with bouncing between head shapes is that unless you also get the tri files for these, things like morphs will undoubtedly break. Using the vanilla HighElf as an example: [00] Skyrim.esm (7CAB85A9) \ Head Part \ 0005161E <FemaleHeadHighElf> References the vanilla head mesh at: Actors\Character\Character Assets\FemaleHead.nif The ear morph for the vanilla head mesh is in: Actors\Character\Character Assets\FemaleHeadRaces.tri -> femaleheadraces_HighElfRace.obj So: Make sure the head mesh you're using is compatible with the obj files in the race morphs tri file. Make sure the race morphs tri file you're using has a morph for the race you're using. At this point I would assume its going by the femaleheadraces_<race editor id>.obj format. The issue is not to add funny ears to bretons (that's already done for vanilla bretons, via Aesthetic Elves). It is that the ears (vanilla elves ears for elves, and Aesthetic Elves ears for bretons) do function on vanilla races, but not on custom races (which are simply duplicate of vanilla races). Given the issue of the elves, it's rather the reverse situation: I need custom elves to use their vanilla ears (and if I find the fix for custom Elves not using their vanilla faces, the fix for custom bretons not using their Aesthetic Elves faces -and ears- will come along) The races do not use any custom assets (apart from High Poly, but the issue appear for vanilla headpart as well so High Poly Head is not the source of the issue, but a similar symptom of it), but simply duplicates (at most a texture swap). Usually (at least from my end), when you duplicate a race, along with creating a specific head part for it or not, the head part used for the NPC is carried the same regardless of the race of the NPC being custom (=I duplicate a vanilla head part, set the formlist correctly, and I could use it on the custom race with no issue). That's the point where the issue occurs. Edited March 14, 2025 by ExodusTransonicMercury
traison Posted March 14, 2025 Posted March 14, 2025 (edited) I confirmed your findings: Made a copy of DarkElfRace, called it DarkerElfRace. Made a copy of Erandur, called him Bob. Changed Bob's race to DarkerElfRace. Added an override for HeadPartsElvesandVampires and included DarkerElfRace in the list. Changed the hair of Erandur, confirmed his ears are funny. Changed the hair of Bob, confirmed his ears are NOT funny. I fixed it: I extracted maleheadraces.tri. I made a copy of maleheadraces_DarkElfRace.obj and named it maleheadraces_DarkerElfRace.obj. I edited maleheadraces.txt to include the new race morph. I created a new maleheadraces.tri from the extracted files. I replaced the vanilla maleheadraces.tri with my new one. Bob now has funny ears. I still can't upload images, so you'll just have to take my word for it. Let me know if you need help with any specifics, or if there's something I'm missing here. Edit: Setting the NAM8 field of the DarkerElfRace RACE record to DarkElfRace will most likely save you the trouble of editing the tri file. Not tested. If you're using the CK to do this, see ExodusTransonicMercury's post further down. Edited March 15, 2025 by traison 1
ExodusTransonicMercury Posted March 14, 2025 Author Posted March 14, 2025 (edited) Thanks, I'm gonna try it right away! I'm a bit reassured that the issue is duplicable outside my own setup, but it still puzzles me that the error occurs at all, as I've literally spent the last year working on a mod mostly populated by custom Bretons and Elves, with Aesthetic Elves and using both vanilla and HPE faceparts. Do you happen to have transitioned from CK to CKPE? (the mod mentioned above was discarded upon the -retroactively unwanted- update of MO2, but I also happened to update to CKPE around the same time, and shortly after, some of my custom mods, including those including custom races, were kind of bugged out (mostly simply active plugins not loaded ingame despite all requirements being met). Not that I want to blame CKPE out-of-nowhere but that's my only lead (on a timing account) so far if the problem is not on my end. I wanted to test the issue on the pre-CKPE CK on another computer, but that's a can of worms of downgrading, updating and whatnot I won't be opening tonight. Edited March 14, 2025 by ExodusTransonicMercury
traison Posted March 15, 2025 Posted March 15, 2025 (edited) If by CK you mean Creation Kit, then I do not know what CKPE is. I run 1.5.97.0 never upgraded/downgraded Skyrim SE with 1.5.73.0 Creation Kit patched with SSE CreationKit Fixes 3.2. The work in my previous post was mostly done in xEdit 4.0.3, I only used the CK to verify the funny ears. I did not build the facegen files, or test in game - I assumed I would get identical results there. The tri files were stabbed and stitched back together with Animation Tools N2, which I believe was made for Skyrim LE. Edited March 15, 2025 by traison
ExodusTransonicMercury Posted March 15, 2025 Author Posted March 15, 2025 CKPE is the Creation Kit Platform Extended, supposed to be way faster and more stable (not a life-changer on my end, but noticeable. I just found the easy fix back. As mentioned above, I'm stupid. On the "copied data" panel in the "general" panel in race creation, I usually put the origin of the duplicate as "Morph Race", and default for "Armor Race" (I think I could have the origin there as well). I mixed those up despite the layout being apparently the same. Morph Race determines the head features, whether human, breton, elvish or orcish.
traison Posted March 15, 2025 Posted March 15, 2025 10 minutes ago, ExodusTransonicMercury said: On the "copied data" panel in the "general" panel in race creation, I usually put the origin of the duplicate as "Morph Race", and default for "Armor Race" (I think I could have the origin there as well). That has to be a CK/CKPE hack because the RACE records do not contain any kind of origin or template info. I bet it does automatically what I did manually with the tri file.
ExodusTransonicMercury Posted March 15, 2025 Author Posted March 15, 2025 No no, it's in the vanilla CK (0:46 on Darkfox's tutorial on race creation (https://youtu.be/_eRR3tPQuy0) (when I say origin, I mean I manually choose the race that was duplicated) 1
traison Posted March 15, 2025 Posted March 15, 2025 (edited) 6 minutes ago, ExodusTransonicMercury said: No no, it's in the vanilla CK Never said it wasn't. What I meant by CK hack was that it provided a feature in the GUI that wasn't stored in the plugin data. But, I tried that option myself and found out it is stored in the plugin data, It's in the NAM8 field. The reason why my DarkerElfRace race test above did not result in Bob having funny ears in the initial test was because NAM8 isn't defined in DarkerElfRace. Setting this field in the DarkerElfRace RACE record to DarkElfRace would most likely save you the trouble of stabbing the tri file. I'll update my earlier post. Edited March 15, 2025 by traison
ExodusTransonicMercury Posted March 15, 2025 Author Posted March 15, 2025 My bad, I misunderstood the "do not contain any kind of origin or template info" bit. For my current (limited) purposes, my method will do the trick, but thanks for the tip!
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