CTD female skeleton

[daniel0035]

Hello everyone !

 

For some time now, I've had a fairly frequent random CTD that always mentions women's skeleton and shadow scene node. I reinstalled XP32 and made sure nothing was overwriting it, but that didn't change anything...

 

Any ideas?

 

 

Crash log: https://pastebin.com/1vjudvNR

[traison]

Hm, interesting. So it crashed trying to dereference RBP+0x8. RBP I thought was only used as a stack frame pointer but it seems with certain compiler options it can be freed up to be used like a generic register instead. That seems to be whats going on here, considering its value is far beyond the stack (it should be relatively close to RSP). That's the long way of saying it crashed (most likely) because it tried to read a value from a class instance that had not been created, or the value in that class was null.

 

I would start by inspecting whats going on with form id 0x13BC0 "Lillith Tisse-Reine". Lots of mods seem to be altering that record. Use xEdit to resolve all conflicts in there and test again. Same goes for form id 0x10E2B6 which is the temporary object.

Edited March 10, 2024 by traison

[daniel0035]

thanks for the reply ^^

So you think it's an NPC enhancement problem? But it's weird because the crash happened when this NPC had been next to my PC for a while... I'd have thought that if this NPC was a problem, it should have happened immediately, right?

[traison]

46 minutes ago, daniel0035 said:

I'd have thought that if this NPC was a problem, it should have happened immediately, right?

 

Without a debugger or a full memory dump from the crash we have no information about what that class should have been. I mean even if there was a memory dump one would have to reverse engineer it to figure it out. Anyhow, its quite safe to say its an issue with that NPC, or something that affected that NPC. Maybe you have a cloak spell (SPID?) that ran a script that added a sword with a weird enchantment that tried to make the NPC's ears pointy but the mesh had a broken parameter in its nif and oops there goes the game. 🔥🔥🔥I realize just saying "it's this NPC" still leaves a million things to check, but at least that's better than having to go through the entire game huh.

 

Inspect the NPC record, simplify it. Remove conflicts in xEdit or remove some/all of the mods affecting that NPC and go from there. Seems like the most reasonable approach to me.

[daniel0035]

I'll give it a try, thanks!

I've also been told that the problem might be with EVG, what do you think?

[traison]

2 minutes ago, daniel0035 said:

I'll give it a try, thanks!

I've also been told that the problem might be with EVG, what do you think?

 

EVG Conditional Idles? That sounds like it would be one of those million things, so "yes".

 

Edit: Like I said, simplify. You don't want silly things like SMP, ENB, CBPC, OAR, DAR, ... enabled when debugging an issue. No use having floppy tits and nice graphics if the game is crashing, right? It just makes things confusing.

Edited March 10, 2024 by traison

[daniel0035]

So you're suggesting I disable everything to find the culprit?

 

In theory, I agree with you, but as the ctd is totally random (for 3h nothing, then in the same place two ctd), it's going to take me years, isn't it?

[traison]

6 minutes ago, daniel0035 said:

So you're suggesting I disable everything to find the culprit?

 

Sort of. ENB wont be part of any dependencies, it can go with no side effects. OAR/DAR/SMP/CBPC same thing. However those were just examples. I still think the first place to start is that NPC record.

 

If however by totally random you mean this also occurs with other NPCs then upload the crash logs from those crashes as well, as then this issue probably has nothing to do with 0x13BC0.

Edited March 10, 2024 by traison

[daniel0035]

Indeed, you're right, I had the same kind of crash with another NPC, it was yesterday it seems.

 

Maybe the crash log can help: https://pastebin.com/muKzLunc

 

[traison]

These are 2 very similar but ultimately different crashes.

 

The common thing appears to be the skeleton like you already suspected in your OP. However like I said, these are different issues, so my suspicion now would be in mods interacting with or altering the skeleton: (in no particular order) RaceMenu (nioverride, high-heel systems), CBPC, SMP, OAR, DAR and mods like them.

 

When it comes to random issues, especially in cases where it takes a long time to test, I usually take a different approach: Learn to break it before trying to fix it. What I mean by that is, find a method or situation where the crash can be repeated reliably and quickly. Usually when you learn to break it you learn how to fix it as well so it sort of works both ways.

 

Edit: and in case you need inspiration for "learn to break it". Since this seems to be an NPC and/or skeleton issue that manifests after a long time of playing (suggesting some kind of resource issue or race condition), the first thing that comes to mind is to spawn in 100 NPCs in Windhelm. Horrible idea, I know, but it smells like just the thing that would break the game. Just remember to verify that you're still dealing with the same crash once you do find something that breaks it. The identifying marks of this seems to be:

 

SkyrimSE.exe+071CBDE movaps xmm1, xmm7 in the callstack.

Skeleton data at or near RSP+60 in the stack.

Edited March 10, 2024 by traison

[daniel0035]

Okay, I'll give it a try and let you know!

 

Thanks again for your patience and educational explanations

[daniel0035]

Hi, I'm back

 

I tried as you said, and I made 100 NPCs appear in windhelm and no crash. I redid the same operation several times and everything was fine.

 

Now I've just had a crash with a new NPC: https://pastebin.com/Wz5jdt9Q

 

What do you think?

[traison]

23 minutes ago, daniel0035 said:

What do you think?

 

I would start removing mods with dlls that have to do with animation and/or skeletons. You got like 20 dlls in there that, just based on their names, seem relevant.

[daniel0035]

Good idea^^

 

The trouble is that this damn ctd is very random, so it's impossible to know if what I'm uninstalling is guilty...

[traison]

8 minutes ago, daniel0035 said:

Good idea^^

 

The trouble is that this damn ctd is very random, so it's impossible to know if what I'm uninstalling is guilty...

 

I've tried several times to get a debugger into SkyrimSE.exe while its running but there's still something preventing me from doing it. I suppose you already know all about that. The only hint one might squeeze out of the callstack of your logs would be VCRUNTIME140.dll+001123D, but I suspect that's going to be some generic string comparison or memory copy function. I suppose if you think that would be useful then send me the version numbers from that dll and I'll see about disassembling it. There's also the option to use full memory dumps to do it offline as it were, but I find that simply letting IDA7 or Ghidra analyze those dumps can take hours. Also, since a full memory dump would be the exact same size as whatever was in Skyrim's memory space at the time of the crash, these files can get huge - not something easily transfered over the internet.

[daniel0035]

Thanks again for your help^^

 

but what are those "version numbers" ? 

[traison]

3 minutes ago, daniel0035 said:

but what are those "version numbers" ?

 

C:\Windows\System32\vcruntime140.dll

 

[daniel0035]

14.38.33130.0

[traison]

0x1123d is within a function declared as void * __cdecl memmove(void *_Dst,void *_Src,size_t _Size). So, like I guessed, a generic memory copy function.

[daniel0035]

I'll take your word for it XD

[daniel0035]

Now I'm trying again, reinstalling XP32 and adding corrective patches (https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/44252?tab=description and https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/60363?tab=description).

 

If the problem is related to the skeleton, there may be something to do?

 

You mentioned 0x1123d. Is this a false alarm?

[traison]

26 minutes ago, daniel0035 said:

0x1123d. Is this a false alarm?

 

VCRUNTIME140.dll+001123D

 

Its where the crash technically occured, so no. And no, the fault is not with vcruntime140.dll but rather what came before it.

 

28 minutes ago, daniel0035 said:

reinstalling XP32

 

I also doubt the issue is with XP32. Like I said, you got lots of dlls that seem to be messing with animations. Animations affect the skeleton. It's far more likely that one of your dll containing mods are causing a race condition which manifests itself in a crash that looks like theres an issue with the skeleton.

 

Rather than wasting your time reinstalling stuff, remove animation and skeleton altering mods that contain a dll - like I've previously stated.

[daniel0035]

Thanks ^^

 

As far as I know, if I follow what you've told me, the .dlls I should suspect would be :

 

SimpleDualSheath.dll

ImmersiveEquipmentDisplays.dll

MuJointFix.dll

hdtSMP64.dll

cbp.dll

AnimationMotionRevolution.dll

OpenAnimationReplacer-IEDConditionExtensions.dll 

OpenAnimationReplacer-DetectionPlugin.dll

cbpAS.dll

BackportedESLSupport.dll (not sure)

AnimationQueueFix.dll

AnimatedStaticReload.dll

Precision.dll

 

Do you suspect any others in my crashlog?

[traison]

8 hours ago, daniel0035 said:

Do you suspect any others in my crashlog?

 

Just based on their names:

 

ActorLimitFix.dll <- the problem is with npcs, so this makes the list
AnimatedStaticReload.dll v1.0.1 <- what is this?
AnimationMotionRevolution.dll <- what is this?
AnimationQueueFix.dll v1.0.1
BetterJumpingSE.dll
BladeAndBlunt.dll v1 <- what is this?
cbp.dll <- no reason to have this enabled now
cbpAS.dll <- what is this?
DescriptionFramework.dll v1.3 <- what is this?
DynamicArmorVariants.dll v1.0.5 <- what is this?
EVLaS.dll v1.3.1 <- what is this?
FaceGenFixes.dll v1.0.3 <- no reason to have this enabled now
gotobed.dll v2.0.7 <- no reason to have this enabled now
hdtSMP64.dll <- no reason to have this enabled now
ImmersiveEquipmentDisplays.dll v1.7.4
ImWalkinHere.dll v1.7 <- what is this?
InventoryInjector.dll v1.0.2 <- what is this?
KiLoaderSatelliteSKSE.dll v1.2 <- what is this?
MaxsuCombatEscape.dll v1 <- what is this?
MuJointFix.dll v2.0.17 <- no reason to have this enabled now
NVIDIA_Reflex.dll v1.1.2 <- what is this?
OBody.dll v1 <- no reason to have this enabled now
OpenAnimationReplacer-DetectionPlugin.dll v2.0.1
OpenAnimationReplacer-IEDConditionExtensions.dll v1.0.2
OpenAnimationReplacer.dll v2.1
OStim.dll v7.3.0.3 <- no reason to have this enabled now
PAPER.dll v2.2.4 <- what is this?
po3_SeasonsOfSkyrim.dll v1.8.2.1 <- no reason to have this enabled now
po3_SpellPerkItemDistributor.dll v6.8.2.1 <- no reason to have this enabled now
Precision.dll v2.0.4
ReadingIsGood.dll v1.1.2 <- what is this?
RoguesGallery.dll v1.0.0.1 <- what is this?
ScrambledBugs.dll <- what is this?
SimpleDualSheath.dll v1.5.7
SSEDisplayTweaks.dll v0.5.16 <- no reason to have this enabled now
SSEFpsStabilizer.dll <- what is this?
ToYourFace.dll <- what is this?
TrueDirectionalMovement.dll v2.2.5
VampireFeedProxy.dll v1.0.1 <- what is this?

 

Also, those are retrorical questions. Example: If you're sure PAPER.dll has nothing to do with npcs, animations or skeletons then cross it off the list and move to the next entry. I just didn't feel like going on a 39-dll hunt through the Nexus.

[daniel0035]

Yes, you're right

I especially suspect cbpAS.dll, it's a mod I wanted to try so I didn't have it in my old modlists, and it doesn't look like I had this crash...