Breastplates

[Yaz]

I love how some guys get hyper sensitive about female breasts, like they belong to them. lol

They also seem to have an extreme aversion to binding or any other milder form of boob flattening. This recalls me the Angelina Jolie's mastectomy case all over again.

 

Actually flattening wear makes sports and other physical activities much better and comfortable for us since it keeps the girls from getting on the way bouncing about like crazy.

Breastplates are dangerous. A strike to the middle of the chest will certainly cause much bigger impact and injury than it would on a regular plate. Just saying.

 

 

Oh, and the "it's fantasy" argument got old. Really old. There are ways to be creative without being sexist or just blatantly crazy on armor design. That being said, I think that Skyrim's vanilla armor design is pretty neat and well done.

[sgtsnorkles]

I just wonder why this topic is even being discussed for a fantasy game.  Again, fantasy, as in not reality.  Give it a break.  If you want realism, go find a game that has it.  There are a few out there.  Some include hypothermia and other natural effects.  Skyrim and similar games are not among them.  Only modders do that.  Also, the game engine can only do so much toward realism in sword play.   To be truly immersive would mean having a dual, triple or quad video card set up, 2 or 3 terabytes of storage, 32 gigs of ram and perhaps a Cray computer, lol. 

  For that matter, why is a civilization, after over 5000 years not advanced beyond bows and blades?  And also, why are smithing techniques still so primitive after all that time.  Look at our own history of weaponry.  Swords and armor changed often, before the introduction of gunpowder. 

  My point is, video games can only do so much toward these realisms.  As for the links you provided.  I visited them, but left no comment.  I will make a comment here on them.  Each of the discussions failed in one primary area.  In any altercation there are multiple combatants.  Two or more.  On one on one scenario you must remember, that each opponent is trying to do two things; kill his opponent and not be killed.  To that affect, blows that would bounce off a breast bulge on armor would likely be striking downward, not up toward the chin.  Why?  Contrary toward the comments on the links provided, swords of the medieval era, with some exceptions, were hack and slash, not thrusting weapons.  Most did have points on them, but that was mainly for the killing stroke, once the opponent was forced to the ground.  Usually battles involved in breaking the arms of an opponent to prevent fighting further.  The Roman gladius  was one of the few blades designed for both hack/slash and stabbing.  Most medieval swords were too heavy and cumbersome for straight stabbing fights, unlike later swords like the rapier.  Because of the weight of blades, it was easier and had more power to strike downward.  Also, if a sword blade struck one of those breast bulges, should the opponent get so lucky, it would rob a lot of the impact, before striking in the middle, if it does.  Striking upward was usually from a backhand upward swing that had its beginning from a downward strike, such would have much less power. 

 

[SandsOfTime404]

Fantasy is fantasy for a reason.  Interesting read, but I'm still going to favor form-fitting armor in a fantasy world.  If I ever find myself in a real-world sword fight, give me all the tips under the sun about what armor is going to keep me from being poked, prodded, and slashed.  Until that day I'm content to string together a few pieces of metal with leather and become a pincushion.  TERA is probably a good example to throw out here.  Your armor is actually better in that game when it covers less.  Who'd-a-thunk?

[Dagimpyman]

I think the main reason why this topic was brought up is because, as in all walks of life, we all like different things when it comes to fantasy. Some people prefer a fantasy setting that is as absurd as possible, others like immersion - i.e., it has be to somewhat believable within certain parameters. Dragons and even magic can be believable if the setting's parameters define them as such - that is to say, dragons exist as a biological species just as any other, and magic follows defined rules that are ingrained into that setting's cosmos, for example. Boob plate and/or metal bikinis, on the other hand, are not believable, unless your parameters alter the laws of physics and anatomy on a fundamental level. Sure, you could have a fantasy setting that does this, but I don't think many people would buy into it. And many people frankly don't care, typically because they don't judge immersion (as I define it here) to be as important compared to other things.

 

Personally, I'm a middle-of-the-road guy. I like to see some skin - exposed thighs, midriff, etc. But I don't have my female characters run around in bikinis, because I think that is just silly. I also tend to play those female characters as light armor-wearing fighters who emphasize evasion/dodging enemy attacks over getting hit, so it makes some sense that they don't need to cover themselves completely with armor (as opposed to my male characters, who are usually more the berserker type). But that is just me, and I fully respect others' preferences to play a fantasy game the way they want - on the one extreme those who'd like to have their female characters wear male-shaped armor and who'd probably appreciate this thread, and on the other extreme those who adore ultra-skimpy metal bikinis or the corpus delicti of this thread (boob plate). To each their own.

[Jexsam]

others like immersion - i.e., it has be to somewhat believable within certain parameters. Dragons and even magic can be believable if the setting's parameters define them as such - that is to say, dragons exist as a biological species just as any other, and magic follows defined rules that are ingrained into that setting's cosmos, for example.

Precisely. What is immersive is subjective to two major things - human perception/experience and the internal logic of the setting. The more important of the two varies from person to person. I skew towards the latter, myself.

 

Boob plate and/or metal bikinis, on the other hand, are not believable, unless your parameters alter the laws of physics and anatomy on a fundamental level. Sure, you could have a fantasy setting that does this, but I don't think many people would buy into it. And many people frankly don't care, typically because they don't judge immersion (as I define it here) to be as important compared to other things.

This is true of people whose immersion is based more on their own experience, but it's not the case for those who judge their immersion on the setting's internal logic. Consistency is the biggest part of that - does the world set and follow its own rules? For the most part, Skyrim's armor does. Boob plates are normal on female armor, and the better the armor is, the more skin it covers. There are exceptions, but they're rare; iron armor has no boob plates and Ancient Nord Armor is fairly high tier yet far skimpier than its quality counterparts. But neither is jarringly different. Iron armor still has a pronounced chest on women, just not dedicated boob plates; and Ancient Nord armor is rather skimpy on both sexes.

 

Put simply, for me, as long as it makes sense in the context of and is consistent with the setting, it does not adversely affect my immersion.

[Joosey]

I saw this topic and had to say something haha.

 

I think the gratuitous bulges in breastplates aren't safe or useful but add more feminine qualities to it.  Less safe because any striking blows to the chest would be deflected or "guided" up to the throat or centerwards to the heart.  But it does make the armor..."prettier".

 

The real fault lies with the "cleavage" area of the breastplate bulge.   If it was to be smoothed out in the middle so it is one big bulge across the entire chest instead of two seperate ones This would still be confortable while preserving the effectiveness of the armor.    This would be practical for fantasy and realworld scenarios.

 

Personally.  I'm all for chainmail bikinis and whatnot in my fantasy games.  But I like having equal balance of practical armor and skimpy stuff.  Like the aformentioned breastplate and........ chainmail thong.   Works for me!

 

 

[Guest]

Arise Lazarus!

 

Sometimes my toons wear mail against bare skin. Sometimes they wear cleavage armor that  would probably get their boobs cleaved in half if they so much as tripped over themselves. I'm like many guy gamers, I like to see gratuitous fantasy bodies, because to me it's absolutely about escape from gritty reality, and newtonian physics be damned unless it's being used to make my tits 'n ass look even more convincingly fleshy.

 

It's genuinely interesting to read about even if I still just don't care about this even a tiny bit. But the great thing about modding is that if you do it's highly likely you can scratch that itch too. 

[Guest]

 

 

[Tensu_Makadi]

 

Bear in mind we're talking about stereotypical over-sexualize female armor.

 

 

Opposed to this. Bear in mind this is a drawing...

 

 

 

 

Just focusing on the BREASTPLATE PART, see how if you struck the breastplate it would deflected outwards, not inwards. Of course the underboob part needs to be worked because a blade could be thrusted under it causing ribcages to break.

 

 

Actually my main problem with being a usable armor for this would be those exposed arms and legs... and don't even get me started on the heels. Unless the blade is the size and mass of that giant freaking ax she carrying I'm not going to worry to much about bone damage from a bladed weapon. 

 

Also in terms of practicality because of the underboob it would likely be difficult to maintain and as such not practical for combat.

[Tensu_Makadi]

*Delete*

[Rabblerouser]

Honestly, not sure why this is such a gigantic issue.

Wouldn't breast plates be a little safer? Bigger the round, more chances of the sword being deflected off, ect.

 

 

 

Feel free to debate me, I won't debate back. I spent hours and hours reading articles like these and it ended up putting me in a "fuck it" mood.

 

To a small extent, maybe, but only if shaped correctly. The two-bulge idea is safe. But if you had it all as one big bulge, MAYBE.

 

The reason I say maybe is that you need some extra incline to have the sword scrape away from the neck, as a neck slice would be nearly always fatal. The bulge created might encourage a sword to scrape up to the neck. So you'd need to shape the armor as to deflect the scrape away from the next and more twoard the shoulders.

 

Honestly, though. I'd imagine to most, the effort making female breastplate armor woudn't be worth the extra effort and ore.

Women can fit into male armor fine (they have padding, also women's breasts are squishy, I've checked  ), male armor is well formed to drive away attacks. ONLY reason they'd make such armor would be for aesthetics, and only if it were a rich kingdom and if the woman was of high stature.

 

tldr: Realism is on the side of women using male armor. That said, I wouldn't want that having any effect on games. As the games we play are fantasy. 

[Absurdity]

Opposed to this. Bear in mind this is a drawing...

 

 

 

 

Just focusing on the BREASTPLATE PART, see how if you struck the breastplate it would deflected outwards, not inwards. Of course the underboob part needs to be worked because a blade could be thrusted under it causing ribcages to break.

 

 

The armor on the left more or less follows the same design idea but solves the underboob problem.

[winny257]

it should look like a female breast armor, with a little eroticism.

[Aetherna]

Man, the people here who tries to defend boob plate as historical or something that would have been used if female warriors had been a bigger thing historically are kinda hilarious.

 

Boob Plate/Bikini Armor/whatever is incredibly inaccurate, but that's fine and not something you have to get defensive about! Some people prefer having it that way anyway(I like it myself in modest amounts) and the beauty of modding is that you can do whatever. 

 

I'm not a fan of big game companies including it in their games though, but that's another issue.

[winny257]

Man, the people here who tries to defend boob plate as historical or something that would have been used if female warriors had been a bigger thing historically are kinda hilarious.

 

Boob Plate/Bikini Armor/whatever is incredibly inaccurate, but that's fine and not something you have to get defensive about! Some people prefer having it that way anyway(I like it myself in modest amounts) and the beauty of modding is that you can do whatever. 

 

I'm not a fan of big game companies including it in their games though, but that's another issue.

 

I have no desire but to walk around in a heavy knight armor, it also does not fit in skyrim. because something fits rather barbaric in this game. if I prefer knights because I can play the same stronghold. but everyone can play skyrim as he wants, for me are those not plate armor in question.

 

german

ich habe doch keine lust in einer schweren ritterrüstung herumzulaufen , es paßt auch nicht zu skyrim . da paßt eher etwas barbarisches in dieses spiel . wenn ich ritter bevorzuge da kann ich ja gleich stronghold spielen . aber jeder kann skyrim spielen wie er will , für mich kommen solche plattenrüstungen nicht in frage .

 

[jbezorg]

It's just hypersensitivity like was said a couple of times in this thread. Everyone is talking about blocking swords ignoring the fact that heavy armor isn't for blocking swords it's for deflecting arrows and lances.

Not only this thread. I thought this was another thread that was necro-posted. Much of the same arguments and replies to those arguments mirror the ones in here.

 

As to the point that the muscle cuirass was not worn in combat. There is evidence that proves otherwise.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muscle_cuirass

 

 

Polybius omits the muscle cuirass in his description of the types of armor worn by the Roman army, but archaeological finds and artistic depictions suggest that it was worn in combat. The monument of Aemilius Paulus at Delphi shows two Roman infantrymen wearing mail shirts alongside three who wear muscle cuirasses. They were worn mostly by officers, and may have been molded leather as well as metal, with fringed leather (pteryges) at the armholes and lower edge. The muscle cuirass is one of the elements that distinguished a senior officer's "uniform."