Making new nude bottom, 3 problems I faced

[CHboom!]

I'm planning to make a bottom replacement, and here is a result so far. 3d vagina, 3d anus, 3d navel, and deeper butt cleavage. It is compatible with EA nude top.

 

 

<Test shots>

 

 

Well I guess you have noticed problem I have.

 

First, I think there is a bone issue on that annoying part. I've seen a youtube explaing how to rearrange bone, but even clicking a vert is impossible for me. LOL.

 

Second, I replaced plain navel part with 3d one, but even after a lot of times of vert fixes, but it got worse and worse. 

and the last thing is butt cleavage part is causing problem just like navel part. I tried to fix it with smooth vert and reset vert, but nothing positive came up so far.

 

 

One more thing, How can I make a body replacement???????????? Is there any helpful tuto out there??????

I hope I finish this work asap and share it with you

[TheLadysGhost]

You have bad bone weights. Looks like a part from one of the 3d models I have been taking apart lately. Not sure how you did bone transfer after splicing it in, but again, weights are off and from the sharp angles, appear quantized. Looks like a standard EA mesh base, Run it thru Tool Kit bone transfer again as geom and look at it in Blender again. Weights should flow smoothly. Test it again, but you may need to hand paint it. Went thru that with my priyatna bottom meshes. Been playing with those for more than a year, and still haven't bothered to upload them.

 

The naval may be a less is more scenario. When you make too many vertices and have too many edges connecting to only a few vertices in the main mesh, you get problems. Sometimes, a well placed sharp can fixx it. Other times, reduce the poly count.

 

For default bottom, just replace the reskey with default number in TSRW. Should work.

[Brisbane Australia]

23 hours ago, CHboom! said:

I'm planning to make a bottom replacement, and here is a result so far. 3d vagina, 3d anus, 3d navel, and deeper butt cleavage. It is compatible with EA nude top.

 

 

 

<Test shots>

 

 

 

Well I guess you have noticed problem I have.

 

First, I think there is a bone issue on that annoying part. I've seen a youtube explaing how to rearrange bone, but even clicking a vert is impossible for me. LOL.

 

Second, I replaced plain navel part with 3d one, but even after a lot of times of vert fixes, but it got worse and worse. 

 

and the last thing is butt cleavage part is causing problem just like navel part. I tried to fix it with smooth vert and reset vert, but nothing positive came up so far.

 

 

One more thing, How can I make a body replacement???????????? Is there any helpful tuto out there??????

I hope I finish this work asap and share it with you

 

 

 

When I built my female Sim's vagina I tried to minimize as much modifications as possible, I ended up being restricted to pretty much using only stretching, dividing and moving vertices.

 

Deleting and adding parts really messed up the end result which I think looks like what might be going on in your pics, there's also a really bad seam where the mesh joins right between her legs right where you want to work, EA never intended people to be working there but that's where most people on this site will be looking.

 

My female sim runs a lower body default replacement search for "nude" in your large game package files there's only a few nude meshes there of male and female and I replace that as a package in the mods packages folder.

 

Unrelated but the part between her labia majora and thigh the skin stretches really badly causing a blurry mark there which is why I've made it skin and couldn't decorate there more.

 

This was a really difficult job but I think it's great you're taking it on, but yeah I'd suggest trying to cut down on things it really helped.

I've included a "shaved" image so you can see little better.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[TheLadysGhost]

9 hours ago, Brisbane Australia said:

there's also a really bad seam where the mesh joins right between her legs

That can be fixed... sort of, but a bit more work, and learning new tools (Blender texturing), and making custom skins from your blened textures. See the skins that JoshQ remade, and the way he blended seams. I made a set of skins and was able to blend that seam. here You probably would not notice, but as practice, I matched and blended the inner arm seams on Cap America and Winter Soldier. Being TS4 to TS3 conversions, those seams were terribly aligned when textures were applied to TS3 arms. Also, a bit of UV manipulation while in image overlay mode.

 

Biggest problem with high detail down there is that, unlike many rigs for other games, those parts don't move, so it's still just parts clipping during woohoo. It might be possible to add vagina bones, but would need to be parented to the pelvis, otherwise they would move independently, and as the standard rig doesn't have those bones (only pelvis), could be an issue. Not something I am interested in doing, so really haven't done more than a general observation of the structuring.

[TheLadysGhost]

@CHboom!, thought of another possible issue. How do your morphs look? You will still need to sort out bone weight first, as morphs work from them to some extent, but the possible issue with morphs is related to the limits of Meshing Tool Kit. I do not use Morph Maker tool, so cannot comment on it. But, MTK calculates vertices position for each morph, based on the proximity of vertices of the morph donor and the mesh being morphed. Meshes with many more vertices than the donor can come out a bit messy. ((( Fat morph is usually the worst, as the vertices move further, and so can be further out of whack. The bottom mesh that I made appears to have far fewer vertices than what you are working on, and I went thru a bit in Blender to adjust everything in the crotch area.

 

MTK can convert .wso to .obj, which you import as groups to Blender. Do NOT merge vertices of the morph meshes, as it makes an error and MTK won't convert back at all (at least for me), and converting back can be a PITA all it's own. I usually hide all groups except the one I am working on, and switch to transparent mode. Here, you will be able to grab both vertices on a seam, but be careful not to grab vertices on opposite side! I often switch from transparent to solid, and edit to object, to see what I have along the way. It can be a PITA, and take some time, but if you really want something, you will do it... I do. I'm sure there is an easier way, but I have not found it yet. ?

 

This is what I use for basic two piece morphs when a top or bottom must match standard EA top or bottom seams... PREGwhole.wso I think this was from Cmar, but uses base game meshes as morph donor base.

 

FYI... Sometimes with odd mesh shadows, you can dosolve the edges and use cut tool to cross the quad in opposite direction, and that will make things look better. Blender does not always triangulate well.

[JoshQ]

On 4/4/2022 at 4:29 AM, CHboom! said:

First, I think there is a bone issue on that annoying part

What are you using to assign bone paint? Cmar’s Meshtoolkit has some problems specially on bottoms when there’s to many vertices.

 

On 4/4/2022 at 4:29 AM, CHboom! said:

I replaced plain navel part with 3d one, but even after a lot of times of vert fixes,

Blender sometimes has problems with normals from sims 3, what I do is to open the mesh on Milkshape 3D an use the ‘align normals’ tool under the ‘vertex’ menu. An alternative is using the ‘Data Transfer’ modifier on Blender

On 4/4/2022 at 4:29 AM, CHboom! said:

One more thing, How can I make a body replacement?

The way I did mine was to clone the nude top / bottom using ‘s3oc’, then I generated a package using tsrw:

 

1.   Open the naked top / bottom on tsrw

2.   Import the respective meshes

3.   Go to ‘Edit’ and then to ‘Project Contents’

4.   Then go to ‘Export’ and select ‘To package’

5.   Now on Meshtoolkit go to ‘Package Tools’ and then to ‘Name those files’, use it on the package you created on TSRW to easily identity the contents

6.   Using s3pe open the exported and named package and select the LOD1 ‘geom’ and the fat, thin, fit and special ‘bgeo’. Press righ click on you mouse and select ‘export’ to save them anywhere you want

7.   Now open the cloned package using again s3pe, thankfully s3oc already named evey file. Now select the LOD1 geom and press ‘enter’, the ‘Resource Details’ window will appear. Press on ‘Copy RK’ just down below and the close the window.

8.   Drag and drop the LOD1 geom you saved from the tsrw exported file, the ‘Resource Details’ windows will appear but now press ‘Paste RK’

9.   Do this with all the four bgeos and save the package

 

I could be forgetting something so feel free to ask. Just from the pictures I can tell you’re almost there so don’t give up.

[CHboom!]

I attached a file I'm working on. If you are insterested in it, feel free to download.

 

 

 

 

1. Texture issue on butt cleavage and navel part

 

On 4/5/2022 at 10:22 AM, TheLadysGhost said:

The naval may be a less is more scenario. When you make too many vertices and have too many edges connecting to only a few vertices in the main mesh, you get problems. Sometimes, a well placed sharp can fixx it. Other times, reduce the poly count.

I followed your advice to give them sharp around the navel area causing issue, but nothing positive came out. It got worse.

6 hours ago, JoshQ said:

Blender sometimes has problems with normals from sims 3, what I do is to open the mesh on Milkshape 3D an use the ‘align normals’ tool under the ‘vertex’ menu. An alternative is using the ‘Data Transfer’ modifier on Blender

On 4/4/2022 at 1:29 PM, CHboom! said:

When I did align normals in Milkshape 3D to fix navel area, seamlines got more visible. And I don't know what is 'Data Transfer' and how to use it. 

 

2. Bone issue

On 4/5/2022 at 10:22 AM, TheLadysGhost said:

You have bad bone weights. Looks like a part from one of the 3d models I have been taking apart lately. Not sure how you did bone transfer after splicing it in, but again, weights are off and from the sharp angles, appear quantized. Looks like a standard EA mesh base, Run it thru Tool Kit bone transfer again as geom and look at it in Blender again. Weights should flow smoothly. Test it again, but you may need to hand paint it. Went thru that with my priyatna bottom meshes. Been playing with those for more than a year, and still haven't bothered to upload them.

Can I fix bone weight in Blender, right???

 

3. Mesh morphs

7 hours ago, TheLadysGhost said:

How do your morphs look?

 

I used a mesh tool kit, auto wso, using priyatna bottom mesh as a reference mesh, instead of EA standard mesh, because I made it from priyatna bottom(Thanks TLG), and this is how they look like

 

Fat

Spoiler

 

Thin

Spoiler

 

Well, it doesn't look so nice.

 

 

4. Body replacement

7 hours ago, JoshQ said:

The way I did mine was to clone the nude top / bottom using ‘s3oc’, then I generated a package using tsrw:

 

1.   Open the naked top / bottom on tsrw

2.   Import the respective meshes

3.   Go to ‘Edit’ and then to ‘Project Contents’

4.   Then go to ‘Export’ and select ‘To package’

5.   Now on Meshtoolkit go to ‘Package Tools’ and then to ‘Name those files’, use it on the package you created on TSRW to easily identity the contents

6.   Using s3pe open the exported and named package and select the LOD1 ‘geom’ and the fat, thin, fit and special ‘bgeo’. Press righ click on you mouse and select ‘export’ to save them anywhere you want

7.   Now open the cloned package using again s3pe, thankfully s3oc already named evey file. Now select the LOD1 geom and press ‘enter’, the ‘Resource Details’ window will appear. Press on ‘Copy RK’ just down below and the close the window.

8.   Drag and drop the LOD1 geom you saved from the tsrw exported file, the ‘Resource Details’ windows will appear but now press ‘Paste RK’

9.   Do this with all the four bgeos and save the package

 

22 hours ago, Brisbane Australia said:

My female sim runs a lower body default replacement search for "nude" in your large game package files there's only a few nude meshes there of male and female and I replace that as a package in the mods packages folder.

I'm not sure I get it right or not, but I will start this job after finishing all other things. Wish me luck

 

5. Minor issue

 

Seam issue

13 hours ago, TheLadysGhost said:

22 hours ago, Brisbane Australia said:

there's also a really bad seam where the mesh joins right between her legs

That can be fixed... sort of, but a bit more work, and learning new tools (Blender texturing), and making custom skins from your blened textures. See the skins that JoshQ remade, and the way he blended seams. I made a set of skins and was able to blend that seam. here You probably would not notice, but as practice, I matched and blended the inner arm seams on Cap America and Winter Soldier. Being TS4 to TS3 conversions, those seams were terribly aligned when textures were applied to TS3 arms. Also, a bit of UV manipulation while in image overlay mode.

I will eventually fix it, but other things should be fixed first.

 

Vagina not moving issue

13 hours ago, TheLadysGhost said:

Biggest problem with high detail down there is that, unlike many rigs for other games, those parts don't move, so it's still just parts clipping during woohoo. It might be possible to add vagina bones, but would need to be parented to the pelvis, otherwise they would move independently, and as the standard rig doesn't have those bones (only pelvis), could be an issue. Not something I am interested in doing, so really haven't done more than a general observation of the structuring.

Lack of necessary bone may be an issue, but not a critical one. When testing it in game, it just remains as it should be, not distorted or so. Well, I hope someone introduce bones for them, but I've seen a thread saying that implement new bone on these parts is impossible. Furthermore, even if someone shows up and give us rig including those parts, most of animators have announced retirement at this time, sadly.

nude bottom detailed.package

[TheLadysGhost]

8 hours ago, CHboom! said:

I used a mesh tool kit, auto wso, using priyatna bottom mesh as a reference mesh, instead of EA standard mesh, because I made it from priyatna bottom(Thanks TLG), and this is how they look like

And there is the problem. Since I have not released it as a nude bottom, only as FemmeBot part or as part of a dress/ skirt, I guess you  separated it from the garment? Those are not nude bottom bones. Those bones are painted to work under the garment without clipping. From the morphs, I know it's an older version... And you get to see some of the PITA that I go thru in fixing morphs. I will take the morphs into Blender and adjust each vertices on each mesh as necessary, to smooth the butt and reshape the vagina. Each dress mesh is different, so I do that on each garment I make... some are worse than others.

 

In a way, you have cloned a clone, and we all know that leads to degredation. Using the original Cmar (I think) .wso morphs will be cloning from the same original that I use, and hopefully less touch up work. I will look at your mesh and see what I can find.

[CHboom!]

1 hour ago, TheLadysGhost said:

Since I have not released it as a nude bottom, only as FemmeBot part or as part of a dress/ skirt, I guess you  separated it from the garment?

I guess it's from your bikini bow set????????? Don't recall what it was exactly.

 

1 hour ago, TheLadysGhost said:

Using the original Cmar (I think) .wso morphs will be cloning from the same original that I use, and hopefully less touch up work.

I used EA original mesh before using your mesh to morph. The results are quite not noticeable, but your mesh seems to be more appropriate than original one.

 

1 hour ago, TheLadysGhost said:

I will look at your mesh and see what I can find.

Thanks! Stay safe!

[TheLadysGhost]

1 hour ago, CHboom! said:

I guess it's from your bikini bow set????????? Don't recall what it was exactly.

Even worse! THAT mesh was abandoned soon after, and FAR less detailed... closer to EA. )))

 

What I write is meant as constructive, not being mean. If JoshQ never told me things he saw wrong in my meshes, I would still be making those mistakes. )))

First... that "vagina accordian" is totally unnecessary for TS3 and bloats the vertices count by 700. It has no practical application. I suggest losing it, extruding the edges and capping it.

Spoiler

Not sure what to do with naval. Those shadows seem to be something that happens when too many edges meet at single vertices. As it's a desired effect around labia, not at naval, but happens for same reason. Do not have Milkshape, so do not know if it can be fixed there. Honestly, I try to avoid that situation. If Josh looks at it, he may have a solution.

 

You have a bad UV with split vertices where they should not. Probably won't see in game, as it's the UV that is split but mesh is not. BUT, the split UV does separate those vertice in the mesh on export, and it could be an issue with other meshes you make. On UV editor, make sure UV seams are split, so not to grab a vertices from other side of UV. Highlight the separated vertices, hold shift and press w, then click "weld". Now, those vertices are one, and spliting the UV seams for export won't split the mesh.

 

The UV causing split vertice is not an issue on such a low poly count mesh, but if you ever get into converting TS4 or game rips to TS3, it may become a HUGE issue, as TS3 can only handle so much before they bleed over to mess up another CAS part, or just explode during morphs. In Meshing Tool Kit is a chart in Mesh Mirror "hint", that shows the limits. Those limits are for total vertices for all LODs.

 

Side note... You need to either manually spilt the butt crack or mark sharp, or it looses that crease a bit. If you open an EA mesh, you will see it is split there. We often hit "merge by distance", set normals, split UV seams and export, then wonder why that seam looks weird... at least, I did, for quite a while! So, I mark sharp, otherwise you must remember to split manually every time. Sometimes, you may need to dissolve edges, then manually set the edge in opposite direction using cut tool, as there may be shadows. Blender doesn't always do a great job of triangulating the quads.

Spoiler

 

Another method is to highlight the entire mesh and use shift W, merge by distance. NOW... the settings may merge vertices from half way across the mesh. Just adjust the settings to a smaller number and watch the vertices, especially in areas of high detail. Possibly, just do not highlight those areas.

I used Cmar .wso, and there are still issues with morphs. What I think is from the added vertices along the butt crack, and cheeks. Manual adjustment is the only way I know, and that is how I fix my meshes. It's not fun, but depending on how much YOU want it, you will learn it and do it... I did. )))

I only played with the fat morph as example. I did not do all morphs and repackage...

Spoiler

A bit better.

So, this is priyatna mesh from November... it is latest version I have on this laptop, but has been revised twice since I made this...

Spoiler

 

[Brisbane Australia]

11 hours ago, CHboom! said:

I attached a file I'm working on. If you are insterested in it, feel free to download.

 

I downloaded the file, Lady's write up is far more advanced than anything I could say, but I will say if you were able to edit those meshes then the basic EA mesh you should have a look into because you should be able to do something pretty good which those meshes and it's the same as what I used too.

 

I loaded your mesh into the game and it is really crazy, I'd suggest if you're going to try again to make a few edits slowly and test the changes work then carry on again otherwise go back / undo etc.

 

To me the vagina looks like it's had a lot of deleted faces which leaves those empty spaces on the skin along with a lot of rotation of vertices, I've included a pic of how it appeared in my Sims.  But this isn't the final end... it just sends you in a direction towards what you actually want to make and you've gotten further than many others so keep going.

 

 

 

[JoshQ]

Yeah the mesh is kinda messy but it’s completely fixable. Let’s start with the double vertices, these are along the right leg seams and on the interior of the left leg. Select the faces and press ‘m’ and then select ‘by distance’.

 

 

Navel and hips normals problems:

 

Data transfer allows you to copy some data from one mesh to another, like mesthtoolkit but for more stuff. So alongside your mesh import the original naked bottom and hide it so it doesn’t get in the way. Now select the faces around the navel and then the ones at the hips, then add them to a ‘vertex group’ . With your mesh selected go to the ‘modifiers’ tag and select ‘data transfer’, select the original naked bottom as reference and then the vertex groups. This tells blender we only want to copy data to this particular area.

 

 

 

Vagina walls:

 

To reduce polycount we need to separate the walls as a new group, put the cursor on a vertex, edge or face and press ‘L’ and then ‘p’. Now on the walls select the faces along the seam and then refine the selection by removing the vertices that don’t belong, you could preserve them if you feel lazy. Then add them to a vertex group and the add a ‘decimate’ modifier. Before starting add the vertex group and this time ‘invert’ the selection. Then reduce the wall as much as possible (try 100 or below). To rejoin both groups just select your main mesh, then shift+click the walls and on the main window press ‘j’.

 

 

 

Bones and morphs:

 

Yeah, you must always use a mesh that is as closest as the one you’re editing, in this case the default naked bottom. This isn’t 100% bulletproof and most times the fat morphs requires fixing, for that you can use Meshtoolkit ‘conversion tools’ to convert a .wso or .geom to obj, do the fixes in blender (click on this box at the far right to separate each morphs as a group ) do your fixes and then re-convert it back to .wso/.geom.

 

After doing all the stuff mentioned here I didn’t noticed any mistake on the morphs or bones, don’t have time to test it though but will continue to help if you get stuck.

 

There’s a whole lot of stuff to digest here, so take it easy. Finally don’t take criticism personal of you’ll have a short life as a modder.

 

[Brisbane Australia]

On 4/7/2022 at 4:20 AM, JoshQ said:

Yeah the mesh is kinda messy but it’s completely fixable. Let’s start with the double vertices, these are along the right leg seams and on the interior of the left leg. Select the faces and press ‘m’ and then select ‘by distance’.

 

 

Navel and hips normals problems:

 

Data transfer allows you to copy some data from one mesh to another, like mesthtoolkit but for more stuff. So alongside your mesh import the original naked bottom and hide it so it doesn’t get in the way. Now select the faces around the navel and then the ones at the hips, then add them to a ‘vertex group’ . With your mesh selected go to the ‘modifiers’ tag and select ‘data transfer’, select the original naked bottom as reference and then the vertex groups. This tells blender we only want to copy data to this particular area.

 

 

Vagina walls:

 

To reduce polycount we need to separate the walls as a new group, put the cursor on a vertex, edge or face and press ‘L’ and then ‘p’. Now on the walls select the faces along the seam and then refine the selection by removing the vertices that don’t belong, you could preserve them if you feel lazy. Then add them to a vertex group and the add a ‘decimate’ modifier. Before starting add the vertex group and this time ‘invert’ the selection. Then reduce the wall as much as possible (try 100 or below). To rejoin both groups just select your main mesh, then shift+click the walls and on the main window press ‘j’.

 

 

Bones and morphs:

 

Yeah, you must always use a mesh that is as closest as the one you’re editing, in this case the default naked bottom. This isn’t 100% bulletproof and most times the fat morphs requires fixing, for that you can use Meshtoolkit ‘conversion tools’ to convert a .wso or .geom to obj, do the fixes in blender (click on this box at the far right to separate each morphs as a group ) do your fixes and then re-convert it back to .wso/.geom.

 

After doing all the stuff mentioned here I didn’t noticed any mistake on the morphs or bones, don’t have time to test it though but will continue to help if you get stuck.

 

There’s a whole lot of stuff to digest here, so take it easy. Finally don’t take criticism personal of you’ll have a short life as a modder.

 

 

This is an excellent reply and with custom videos done specially for this project, and there's lots of things for me to learn about and see too, thumbs up man! ??