3BBB Breasts Stretch Issues

[OnceAPotato]

I have spent the last five hours trying to resolve this issue, and am at the end of my patience. I have reinstalled all of my related mods including XP32, CBBE, 3BBB, and a few others. I have no idea what caused this sudden issue except that I updated 3BBB and CBBE a few days ago. I tried rebuilding in Bodyslide, ran FNIS multiple times, and tested both on NPCs and myself for any improvements. Nothing works to resolve the issue. I have no idea what to do at this stage, and so I came here. I have looked across multiple forums and posts trying to find a solution, tried all of the ones I saw that looked like they were similar issues, and nothing stuck. 

Modlist: https://pastebin.com/5dCkGefM

The attached image is of a fresh character showing the issue. 

[Aylis]

I had the same problem. Check all other mods that have something to do with hdt. There might be a hidden conflict.

[Fotogen]

Skeleton. You need XPMSE(skeleton) that is new enough. And nothing must overwrite this mod.

[OnceAPotato]

31 minutes ago, Fotogen said:

Skeleton. You need XPMSE(skeleton) that is new enough. And nothing must overwrite this mod.

My bad, I was tired and stressed last night. That's what I meant to put, and if you check my list it's what I have. It's up to date and one of the last things in my load order. 

[OnceAPotato]

8 hours ago, Aylis said:

I had the same problem. Check all other mods that have something to do with hdt. There might be a hidden conflict.

I'll give those a look after work, but I hadn't changed anything aside from updating 3BBB and CBBE. I've got a few ini changes, so maybe something went screwy with those.

[Aylis]

Worst case take a look at the sections 'SKSE', 'PC' and 'Physics and Animation' (in the second post) of my thread.

 

It took me hours to find the problem and i almost gave up switching to SMP-HDT.

[OnceAPotato]

So after reinstalling all the physics and checking conflicts(nothing unexpected that I could find aside from intended overwrites), I booted up the game. Everything looked correct, but physics weren't there. So I went into bodyslide to generate the physics, and that's when it broke again. Building physics caused this issue to occur again, so I'm not sure exactly what I need to be fixing. The only thing I feel like I need to add is that when clothed everything works fine. It's legitimately only when nude that everything breaks.

[Aylis]

Stubborn bug? OK then the hard tour...

 

Install (or have them in this order)

XP32 Maximum Skeleton Special Extended (Physics)

HDT-SMP (Skinned Mesh Physics)

CBPC - CBP Physics with Collisions

SINful CBP (set everything in the MCM to '3' and 'standard')

 

Reinstall 3BBB and use these settings (Format is Page/Option(s)):

1.1 Pre-built Body mesh

2.1 Performance

3.1 SMP and CBPC (Full)

4.1 bounce and softness

4.2 Small~Big Boobs

5.1 Small Movement

6.1 CBPC - RegularSOS

7.1 Pink - 4K 

7.2 SSS Black

8.1 Sexlab

8.2 New Adding 3BBB Morph

[INSTALL]

 

Now this file:

WBody - Nude.7z

 

This way we can be sure its not the bodyslides or the settings.

[OnceAPotato]

 

7 hours ago, Aylis said:

Stubborn bug? OK then the hard tour...

 

Install (or have them in this order)

XP32 Maximum Skeleton Special Extended (Physics)

HDT-SMP (Skinned Mesh Physics)

CBPC - CBP Physics with Collisions

SINful CBP (set everything in the MCM to '3' and 'standard')

 

Reinstall 3BBB and use these settings (Format is Page/Option(s)):

1.1 Pre-built Body mesh

2.1 Performance

3.1 SMP and CBPC (Full)

4.1 bounce and softness

4.2 Small~Big Boobs

5.1 Small Movement

6.1 CBPC - RegularSOS

7.1 Pink - 4K 

7.2 SSS Black

8.1 Sexlab

8.2 New Adding 3BBB Morph

[INSTALL]

 

Now this file:

WBody - Nude.7z 5.9 MB · 0 downloads

 

This way we can be sure its not the bodyslides or the settings.

I followed this step by step, and tested every step of the way to see if anything changed. Your body mesh or whatever it was legit fixed it. 3BBB toggle and everything, with all the physics work just fine. So it's looking like some sort of bodyslide issue if that's what fixed it, right? Mind helping me figure out what exactly causes it?

[Aylis]

Yep, those are part of the bodyslides i use here. 

 

I think (i'm no expert so take this with a grain of salt) that it is about the 'bones' of the body. 3BBB did some changes to the structure (like adding two 'bones' for the breast) and this can become problematic.

 

Especially when it comes to older armors you run into a lot of issues. The physics often simply don't want to work correctly - if they work at all. Others only partially...

 

Those work perfectly:

Triss Armor Retextured SE - CBBE 3BBB Bodyslide

Undies - CBBE 3BBB (3BA) Bodyslides

 

The standard armors from CBBE at least partially.

 

This one absolutely doesn't (and i tried everything)

Ciri's Outfit (The Witcher 3) 

 

If you like Wrong Body then it might be worth your time to check out my thread. In the 'files' section you can find sets of already prepared bodyslides.

[OnceAPotato]

It was actually only nude that I had major problems. Clothed was totally fine. Thankfully what you sent is pretty close to what I use at first glance(CBBE Curvy), so I'm pretty happy with things. 

 

Thank you very much for your time, I deeply appreciate it. I always recommend people to LL for serious help they can't figure out on their own for exactly this type of support. 

 

[Aylis]

No problem.

 

Don't hesitate to ask if you have more questions.

[billy85]

On 4/3/2020 at 12:01 AM, Aylis said:

Stubborn bug? OK then the hard tour...

 

Install (or have them in this order)

XP32 Maximum Skeleton Special Extended (Physics)

HDT-SMP (Skinned Mesh Physics)

CBPC - CBP Physics with Collisions

SINful CBP (set everything in the MCM to '3' and 'standard')

 

Reinstall 3BBB and use these settings (Format is Page/Option(s)):

1.1 Pre-built Body mesh

2.1 Performance

3.1 SMP and CBPC (Full)

4.1 bounce and softness

4.2 Small~Big Boobs

5.1 Small Movement

6.1 CBPC - RegularSOS

7.1 Pink - 4K 

7.2 SSS Black

8.1 Sexlab

8.2 New Adding 3BBB Morph

[INSTALL]

 

Now this file:

WBody - Nude.7z 5.9 MB · 66 downloads

 

This way we can be sure its not the bodyslides or the settings.

Thankyou so much! I finally fixed it after 7 hours being sherlock.

You helped me :')

[The Song]

As seems to so annoying often be the case, I did the exact solution listed here that people say worked, and it doesn't work.

[Aylis]

This was an older version. Take a look here instead:

Also it won't work in the prison cell if you use 'Alternate Start'.

[The Song]

3 hours ago, Aylis said:

This was an older version. Take a look here instead:

Also it won't work in the prison cell if you use 'Alternate Start'.

Is there a different particular reason you choose "Real Bounce", or do you just make your girls flat?
Because according to CBBE's own description I should be choosing "Very Softness".
Same on page 8, you use small movement but the mod says I need Big movement

[Aylis]

Well, if you consider this flat...

 

Lets put it this way. I've got mine working without hiccups with the settings i listed. Its up to you if you want to do something else.

[The Song]

52 minutes ago, Aylis said:

Well, if you consider this flat...

 

Lets put it this way. I've got mine working without hiccups with the settings i listed. Its up to you if you want to do something else.

I got the weirdness to stop by batch uploading a preset to everything in bodyslide studio. which makes no sense because I'd already handled bodyslide uploads. Maybe the nude body one had a broken upload the first time or something, I dunno.
And yes I'd call that flat *shrugs*

 

Now if only I had a full and proper understanding of editing a PC through the body sliders in racemenu, vs the other set of bodysliders in racemenu since there's two different ones for some reason, vs bodyslide studio. Beyond the detail that the studio one applies to all the npcs too I'm not sure what the distinction between those is.

 

Edit: And I just now realized I accidentally replied to you on the wrong thread, here instead of mine. Oh well.

[Guest]

I'm having a similar problem and am getting a bit frustrated. I've been using this body for months with no issues, then as soon as I enable SMP, the breasts completely glitch out. Just like OP I have XPMSE, CBBE, HDT-SMP for SSE, CBPC Physics with collisions for SSE etc. Like I said, I've used this for ages. Outside of animations, it works perfectly fine with the right bounce, but as soon as I get in an animation, it's spazzes out. I've tried the above install and no luck. For the record it's just Sexlab, SLAL, and SLAL-Leito plus Match Maker, as I'm just doing some testing. Any ideas? Also worth nothing that SMP works great when the player character is female, but it's the npcs that are broken when I apply the spell or hit the hotkey that turns it on for them.

 

 

[anjenthedog]

Gro_Lak,

 

If you have CBBE-3BBB installed, make sure to set up the CBPC/SMP hotkey in the CBBE-3BBB MCM (same can be said if you're using BHUNP. it also has a similar MCM hotkey) 

 

when that happens (SMP goes unstable, as evidenced by nipples being tugged upwards, breasts flying around as if the nips are attached to a pair of angry bats, breasts stuck in some weird position, or even excessive nipple vibration... the last often seen when in a prone position during or before or after sleep), hit the hotkey twice, once to switch to CPBC mode and then once to go back to SMP mode. SMP is inherently unstable (afaik it's an open loop control implementation, or at least appears to be) and will eventually bug out. It's just the nature of the algorithms at this point in the development of the SMP engine.

 

the idea of setting up the hotkey is so you can quickly reset SMP.  reset takes all of a second or two. 

 

one caveat is that the vag may not reset fully until the animation cycle completes, (ie may get stuck in CPBC mode for the duration of the animation) but at least your breasts stop being wonky and *will return to SMP mode. 

[anjenthedog]

PS> for all of you, or future readers. when you use bodyside, make sure to use a "3BBB qualified" PRESET when building a 3BBB body.. You can't choose a stock CBBE preset, nor a UNP preset, nor a BHUNP preset for a CBBE-3BBB body (nor a CBBE-3BBB preset for a BHUNP body), etc.

 

It took me a while to figure that one out by trial and error. 

 

Aside from not installing CBBE-3BBB or BHUNP correctly (ie with all the bells and whistles) I suspect that's the source of many errors people encounter when building their first 3BBB body, ie using the wrong type of PRESET for the 3BBB BODY

[Guest]

8 hours ago, anjenthedog said:

Gro_Lak,

 

If you have CBBE-3BBB installed, make sure to set up the CBPC/SMP hotkey in the CBBE-3BBB MCM (same can be said if you're using BHUNP. it also has a similar MCM hotkey) 

 

when that happens (SMP goes unstable, as evidenced by nipples being tugged upwards, breasts flying around as if the nips are attached to a pair of angry bats, breasts stuck in some weird position, or even excessive nipple vibration... the last often seen when in a prone position during or before or after sleep), hit the hotkey twice, once to switch to CPBC mode and then once to go back to SMP mode. SMP is inherently unstable (afaik it's an open loop control implementation, or at least appears to be) and will eventually bug out. It's just the nature of the algorithms at this point in the development of the SMP engine.

 

the idea of setting up the hotkey is so you can quickly reset SMP.  reset takes all of a second or two. 

 

one caveat is that the vag may not reset fully until the animation cycle completes, (ie may get stuck in CPBC mode for the duration of the animation) but at least your breasts stop being wonky and *will return to SMP mode. 

Yeah, for some reason the hotkeys work better than the spells, as far as I've seen. I ended up just making a new game (I had unceremoniously ripped out a few mods that messed up my mfg Sexlab expressions (high poly head and that other version of facegen morphs, not the typical expressive ones, on that save), and now things seem copacetic. I've been using the newer Vry's 3BA preset (check it out, it's awesome), which is made for the 3bbb body. Hopefully as long as I don't mess around with the install, it'll stay relatively stable. Unfortunately, hotkeys don't seem to work at all during animations, but I was in freecam. I'll test that later. Thanks for the input though! I think for the most part I didn't have anything installed incorrectly, just some natural jank with SMP on SSE and taking stuff out mid-save.

[anjenthedog]

Hmm... the cpbc/smp hotkey should work whether you're in 3rd person or freecam mode. It does for me.  FWIW, I assigned mine to F12 rather than one of the normal alphanumerics, since there is always the danger of overlap (ie with other mods and their preassigned values) when using those. 

 

I don't use the spells, either for my player or for NPCs (I have both CBBE-3BBB and BHUNP followers)

 

If you *do happen to use both, like me, make sure that whichever one you use for your player (presuming CBBE-3BBB) isn't assigned to the same player hotkey for BHUNP, or visa versa if you use BHUNP for your player. that screwed me up for a little while at first. 

 

I can almost guarantee that even if you had initial configuration/installation issues, SMP *will* become unstable at some point. So that hotkey assignment will come in handy later on. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, anjenthedog said:

Hmm... the cpbc/smp hotkey should work whether you're in 3rd person or freecam mode. It does for me.  FWIW, I assigned mine to F12 rather than one of the normal alphanumerics, since there is always the danger of overlap (ie with other mods and their preassigned values) when using those. 

 

I don't use the spells, either for my player or for NPCs (I have both CBBE-3BBB and BHUNP followers)

 

If you *do happen to use both, like me, make sure that whichever one you use for your player (presuming CBBE-3BBB) isn't assigned to the same player hotkey for BHUNP, or visa versa if you use BHUNP for your player. that screwed me up for a little while at first. 

 

I can almost guarantee that even if you had initial configuration/installation issues, SMP *will* become unstable at some point. So that hotkey assignment will come in handy later on. 

Ok so turns out that it was the "Even Actors Height" option in Sexlab that was causing the wonkiness. My guess is that it was attaching the bones for the SMP reference where they USED to be, which made them pin to weird places. Bummer, because that'll cause me to have to spend more time adjusting alignment if I want to use SMP. Oh well, compromises in everything I suppose.

[anjenthedog]

Gro_Lak,

 

Again, SMP WILL almost assuredly eventually destabilize during play. It is the nature of the algorithms. SL (or flower girls) setting "Even actors height" may temporarily fix it (although tbh, I think you're chasing a red herring on that).  Some other thing may temporarily fix it, but it's not going to magically go away.

 

SMP's present algorithms are fundamentally unstable. It's in part why it works so well, (high dynamic response) but its instability is a cost of the dynamic performance it brings. There are several things that the author *could do to reduce or eliminate the instability (and maintain the high dynamic performance) but he or she has not done so as of today. It's not "simple" to do and requires a solid background in the issues of control paradigms. And I can't even suggest what those specific modifications *should be, because I've never analyzed the underlying code to see what he or she left out, although I do have experience in both analog and digital hardware and in software combating instabilities in high dynamic performance solutions.  

 

To put it in commonspeak terms, SMP is like balancing on top of a ball, whereas CBPC is like balancing inside a bowl. CBPC is inherently stable. The zero state is always inside the safe zone. SMP is always ready to fall off. 

 

Assign the hotkey so that when it happens you can reset SMP easily. Or don't, your choice. I think it'd be foolish not to, but hey, you do what you do.