Very strange NPC glitch in Riverwood

[Aki K]

There is a spot in riverwood where NPCs get stuck inside one another and they just stay there FOREVER.  I mean literally nothing can get them away from that spot once they're in there.  I tried killing them (dead ones sink into the ground but one of them can't be hit no matter how close I am to them).  I tried disabling one of them.  I tried Unrelenting force.  I tried "moveto player" command.  And if I use the "wait" option more get stuck in there once the time passes.

 

If I use "mark for delete" on all of them, the space is unoccupied, but eventually another NPC gets stuck there if I wait even one hour.  It'l like it's just sucking up all the NPCs in riverwood.

 

The only mods I have that effect riverwood are SOS (which adds a shop some distance away from the glitch area) and deviously cursed loot (which adds one NPC inside the inn, so not even the same cell).  This doesn't make sense to me.

 

Looking for someone who knows what the hell can cause this and what the fix is?  It is always the exact same spot where NPCs get stuck.  Started with 2 whiterun guards but then Alvor and some other NPC got in there.

 

 

 

EDIT: Other NPC is Sigrid.

 

I tried loading a previous file.  The spot was unoccupied and I tried waiting (it was night and I couldn't see too well).  For a while it seemed to work fine.  killed a thief trying to break into the trader.  Once I turned to look back at the spot it was still unoccupied until suddenly, Sigrid just spawned into it and got stuck.  i deleted her, waited, and Alvor got stuck.  Deleted him, waited, and then the spot was seemingly free of the glitch (No one else was getting stuck there)  Though in theory white run guards could get stuck there since they were the first victims of it.

 

Am I to go the rest of Skyrim without these 2 NPCs?  Why is this even happening?

[GenioMaestro]

6 hours ago, Aki K said:

Am I to go the rest of Skyrim without these 2 NPCs?  Why is this even happening?

Probably, you have a bad NavMesh. Disable mods until found the problematic mod.

[Aki K]

6 hours ago, GenioMaestro said:

Probably, you have a bad NavMesh. Disable mods until found the problematic mod.

Will try that.  What is a navmesh?  I've heard the word but don't know what it is.

[Grey Cloud]

12 hours ago, Aki K said:

The only mods I have that effect riverwood

Road mod?

[Aki K]

10 minutes ago, Grey Cloud said:

Road mod?

No road mods.  That area should be totally uneffected but something is causing trouble in that exact spot.  Sigrid and Alvor seem to be at the center of it, because if I delete them the glitch stops completely.  But I don't have any mods that alter them except the CBBE body and SOS body, as well as skin texture mods.  I'm inclined to think if those mods were the cause this problem would be effecting a lot more NPCs.  But only that one spot and only if those two NPCs exist.  For now I've just deleted them from that save and called it a day, but I would like to understand the problem better so I can fix it.

 

GenioMaestro said it's probably the navmesh.  In my experience he usually knows what he's talking about.  Sadly though, I don't always understand.  My technical skills are low.

[GenioMaestro]

32 minutes ago, Aki K said:

What is a navmesh?  I've heard the word but don't know what it is.

https://www.creationkit.com/index.php?title=Bethesda_Tutorial_Navmesh#What_is_Navmesh.3F

Simply put, a navmesh is a collection of polygons that tells an actor where it can walk.

https://www.creationkit.com/index.php?title=Category:Navmesh

Navmeshes represent the actual area that Actors can walk on. A Navmesh consists of a list of triangles (composed of verts and edges), derived data such as slope, and additional information like cover, preferred paths, and water areas. Navmeshes allows the AI to build better and more efficient paths based on data added to the Navmesh in the Editor or generated dynamically at runtime.

 

Alvor can walk from the forge to their house because the game have a group of NavMesh that define where are the stairs of the forge and where is the road.

When the NavMesh not exist or is bad defined the NPC's can not know how go from one point to the other and normally they walk over the same point whitout move.

When you make a teleport to the cell and the cell not have NavMesh, the game position ALL the actors in the center of the cel, normally one over the other, causing the fail that you show in your screenshot.

 

32 minutes ago, Aki K said:

Will try that.

The NavMesh are written inside the ESP's and, probably, one of yours ESP's have a bad NavMesh for RiverWood. The most easy way to locate the problematic mod is disable mod until you locate them.

 

The other way is open your entire pluging list in Tes5Edit, get the code of each cell from https://www.skyrimsearch.com/categories/cells/1/Riverwood/ and open every one of the cells to see what is the last mod that modify the NavMesh in that cells. 

Spoiler

 

[Aki K]

4 minutes ago, GenioMaestro said:

https://www.creationkit.com/index.php?title=Bethesda_Tutorial_Navmesh#What_is_Navmesh.3F

Simply put, a navmesh is a collection of polygons that tells an actor where it can walk.

https://www.creationkit.com/index.php?title=Category:Navmesh

Navmeshes represent the actual area that Actors can walk on. A Navmesh consists of a list of triangles (composed of verts and edges), derived data such as slope, and additional information like cover, preferred paths, and water areas. Navmeshes allows the AI to build better and more efficient paths based on data added to the Navmesh in the Editor or generated dynamically at runtime.

 

The NavMesh are written inside the ESP's and, probably, one of yours ESP's have a bad NavMesh for RiverWood. The most easy way to locate the problematic mod is disable mod until you locate them.

 

The other way is open your entire pluging list in Tes5Edit, get the code of each cell from https://www.skyrimsearch.com/categories/cells/1/Riverwood/ and open every one of the cells to see what is the last mod that modify the NavMesh in that cells. 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Would you say the last method is more efficient to finding it?  It sounds easier.

[GenioMaestro]

5 minutes ago, Aki K said:

Would you say the last method is more efficient to finding it?  It sounds easier.

Normally, for a normal user whit low knowledge, is more easy disable mods. But if you know how manage Tes5Edit can be more easy to you use Tes5Edit.

Have in mind that Riverwood have 10 exterior cells and each cell have from 2 to 5 NavMesh inside the temporal definition, that give from 50 to 500 diferent NavMesh and you can need some minutes to revise all of them because the fail can be in any of the NavMesh.

[Aki K]

Just now, GenioMaestro said:

Normally, for a normal user whit low knowledge, is more easy disable mods. But if you know how manage Tes5Edit can be more easy to you use Tes5Edit.

Have in mind that Riverwood have 10 exterior cells and each cell have from 2 to 5 NavMesh inside the temporal definition, that give from 50 to 500 diferent NavMesh and you can need some minutes to revise all of them because the fail can be in any of the NavMesh.

True, but if I know which cell I'm dealing with it shouldn't be so bad.  I've never done anything with cells in TesEdit but I have learned quite a bit about TesEdit so it might be the easier route for me.  I just need to figure out which mods are effecting that cell recently correct?

[Aki K]

I tried looking up riverwood cells.  I found the ID for all of them but it doesn't seem to tell me which one is for where.  I guess I'll have to go through all the exterior cells until I see deleted navmeshes?

 

EDIT: Okay i did a line by line search of all the navmeshes for the Riverwood cells and as far as I can tell nothing was deleted.  Certainly nothing was marked deleted.  Most lines were highlighted green, some yellow, a few red.  Not sure what that means but they all had values written in the lines usually.

 

It seems the only mod that's modifying riverwood is SOS (which adds a shop) but SOS has been installed LONG before this glitch started occurring.  So I'm at a loss as for the cause.  But at the same time I don't really understand what I'm reading or how to look for it.  So maybe I already mentioned something that's a red flag.

 

Alternatively, I noticed not every cell I searched in TesEdit lists navmeshes.  Some just have "placed objects" but this is also true for cells that are fully functional like ones form solitude (no glitches there but I'm seeing a lot of the same stuff.  Reds, greens, yellows.  And sometimes just "placed objects" in some cells rather than navmeshes.

 

So in short, I don't really know what I'm looking at and therefore can't tell what is out of the ordinary.  I see tons of values, but I don't know if red means deleted or just overwritten by something else.

 

 

One thing I find odd is that there should be at least one other mod adding something to the cells in riverwood.  One of my mods adds an NPC to the interior cell of the inn, but that wasn't listed when I searched that cell for comparison.  It would be easier if I knew exactly which exterior cell in riverwood i needed to search, but all of my googling gets me the form ids but no descriptors.  So i had to search all of them and maybe I missed something.

 

EDIT 2:  There's also the fact that it only occurs with two very specific NPCs.  if I delete them it works fine.  If they're around they always get stuck and drag other NPCs with them.  But once they're gone, no issue.  So maybe it's related more directly to Alvor and Sigrid?

[Aki K]

  

On 3/6/2020 at 10:44 AM, GenioMaestro said:

https://www.creationkit.com/index.php?title=Bethesda_Tutorial_Navmesh#What_is_Navmesh.3F

Simply put, a navmesh is a collection of polygons that tells an actor where it can walk.

https://www.creationkit.com/index.php?title=Category:Navmesh

Navmeshes represent the actual area that Actors can walk on. A Navmesh consists of a list of triangles (composed of verts and edges), derived data such as slope, and additional information like cover, preferred paths, and water areas. Navmeshes allows the AI to build better and more efficient paths based on data added to the Navmesh in the Editor or generated dynamically at runtime.

 

Alvor can walk from the forge to their house because the game have a group of NavMesh that define where are the stairs of the forge and where is the road.

When the NavMesh not exist or is bad defined the NPC's can not know how go from one point to the other and normally they walk over the same point whitout move.

When you make a teleport to the cell and the cell not have NavMesh, the game position ALL the actors in the center of the cel, normally one over the other, causing the fail that you show in your screenshot.

 

The NavMesh are written inside the ESP's and, probably, one of yours ESP's have a bad NavMesh for RiverWood. The most easy way to locate the problematic mod is disable mod until you locate them.

 

The other way is open your entire pluging list in Tes5Edit, get the code of each cell from https://www.skyrimsearch.com/categories/cells/1/Riverwood/ and open every one of the cells to see what is the last mod that modify the NavMesh in that cells. 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

Hi so something interesting happened.

 

I started a new file and the glitch was gone without anything changing (I never found a deleted navmesh).  But about halfway through the playthrough the glitch happened again, but in dawnstar and with different NPCs.  That doesn't sound like a deleted NavMesh if it's in a different location for a different file.

 

 

Edit: I should also mention I have no mods that significantly alter Dawnstar.  The only city I've altered to any significant degree is Whiterun.  The only mod I have that effects dawnstar is Deviously Cursed Loot which adds a single house at the very end just before the dark brotherhood lair.

[Zebot]

Try to disable Deviously Cursed Loot, make a new save, clean the scripts from the save with a cleaner and try it.

 

For what i have researched, that might be the culprit of the Npcs ( at 1st glance ofc since we dont have your mod loadout to see in more detail)

[Aki K]

12 hours ago, Zebot said:

Try to disable Deviously Cursed Loot, make a new save, clean the scripts from the save with a cleaner and try it.

 

For what i have researched, that might be the culprit of the Npcs ( at 1st glance ofc since we dont have your mod loadout to see in more detail)

Could swear I put the load order but just in case I will put it below.

 

I never had this issue with DCL before.  That's strange, but I'll try it.  What has your research said specifically?  I'm curious if there is a fix because I really like DCL.

 

Load Order: 

Spoiler

  0  0     Skyrim.esm
  1  1     Update.esm
  2  2     Dawnguard.esm
  3  3     HearthFires.esm
  4  4     Dragonborn.esm
  5  5     Unofficial Skyrim Legendary Edition Patch.esp
  6  6     hdtHighHeel.esm
  7  7     ApachiiHairMales.esm
  8  8     RaceCompatibility.esm
  9  9     SexLab.esm
 10  a     SexLabAroused.esm
 11  b     Devious Devices - Assets.esm
 12  c     Devious Devices - Integration.esm
 13  d     ZaZAnimationPack.esm
 14  e     Heels Sound.esm
 15  f     Apachii_DivineEleganceStore.esm
 16 10     Devious Devices - Expansion.esm
 17 11     CreatureFramework.esm
 18 12     Schlongs of Skyrim - Core.esm
 19 13     Vampire Slavers Den v2.0.esm
 20 14     RidingStyles2.esm
 21 15     Magicka Sabers Unique.esp
 22 16     RSkyrimChildren.esm
 23 17     FNIS.esp
 24 18     SkyUI.esp
 25 19     XPMSE.esp
 26 1a     RaceMenuMimic.esp
 27 1b     REP_Tattoos.esp
 28 1c     EyesFix.esp
 29 1d     Merta Assassin Tattoos.esp
 30 1e     Animated Dragon Wings.esp
 31 1f     BanneredMareImmersiveSexualPlayground.esp
 32 20     UBWRe.esp
 33 21     Thunderchild - Epic Shout Package.esp
 34 22     Remodeled Armor - Vanilla Replacer.esp
 35 23     ParticleField.esp
 36 24     lilithstools.esp
 37 25     Deviously Cursed Loot.esp
 38 26     Fachry Raven the Titan Follower.esp
 39 27     EtR_HearthfireDungeonAddon.esp
 40 28     Apachii_DivineEleganceStore_Patch.esp
 41 29     MoreNastyCritters.esp
 42 2a     KillCurse.esp
 43 2b     RSChildren.esp
 44 2c     Killable Lootable Children for Hearthfires.esp
 45 2d     RavenCastle.esp
 46 2e     Schlongs of Skyrim.esp
 47 2f     SOS - Shop.esp
 48 30     The Manipulator.esp
 49 31     Harry Potter Spells.esp
 50 32     SuccubusTwins.esp
 51 33     Merta Assassin Armor.esp
 52 34     RaceCompatibilityUSKPOverride.esp
 53 35     FNIS_PCEA2.esp
 54 36     VioLens.esp
 55 37     FNISSexyMove.esp
 56 38     RaceMenuMorphsCBBE.esp
 57 39     CROSS_Crucible.esp
 58 3a     Warlock axe Nexus.esp
 59 3b     Masamune.esp
 60 3c     SL Deadly Drain.esp
 61 3d     SexLab Aroused Creatures.esp
 62 3e     Apropos2.esp
 63 3f     zzEstrus.esp
 64 40     TweaksMagicTouchCrafting.esp
 65 41     SLAnimLoader.esp
 66 42     Private Needs Discreet.esp
 67 43     DLSkyrim.esp
 68 44     ShadowSpellPackage.esp
 69 45     UIExtensions.esp
 70 46     SOS - VectorPlexus Regular Addon.esp
 71 47     MikanEyes All in one.esp
 72 48     SlaveTats.esp
 73 49     SLALAnimObjBillyy.esp
 74 4a     no_guard_warning_after_shouts.esp
 75 4b     Random Vampire Attacks in Towns Disabled.esp
 76 4c     [COCO]ms_shirt.esp
 77 4d     LindsMerEyes.esp
 78 4e     Tempest.esp
 79 4f     TeraSuccubusArmor.esp
 80 50     C5Kev's Animated Tentacle Parasite Armor.esp
 81 51     Rayg_NoBYOHAttacks.esp
 82 52     SGEyebrows.esp
 83 53     Real Flying.esp
 84 54     AddItemMenuLE.esp
 85 55     [dint]_NeirAutomataHDT.esp
 86 56     Angelic_Demonic.esp
 87 57     TERA-Masks.esp
 88 58     [COCO]sexypunk.esp
 89 59     [COCO]wedding_2B.esp
 90 5a     [COCO]KDA_Ahri_Full.esp
 91 5b     RaceChanger.esp
 92 5c     mcgDwarvenDeviousCuirass.esp
 93 5d     NewVampChainsCuirass.esp
 94 5e     _ImoMegane.esp
 95 5f     HentaiCreatures.esp
 96 60     Za Warudo.esp
 97 61     Remodeled Armor - Vanilla Replacer - Dawnguard.esp
 98 62     Remodeled Armor - Vanilla Replacer - Dragonborn.esp
 99 63     [Dint999] KSH's HDT.esp
100 64     Celes Nightingale Armor.esp
101 65     Incarnatecreatures.esp
102 66     Daedric Chainmail CBBE.esp
103 67     SimpleOutfitManager.esp
104 68     Demon Armor UNP LE.esp
105 69     FNIS_PCEA2RaceSwitchFix.esp
106 6a     Angel Armor Ori.esp
107 6b     C5Kev's Animated Living Armor Colors CBBE.esp
108 6c     C5Kev's Herme Mora Priestess CBBE.esp
109 6d     Crimson Blood Armor.esp
110 6e     SOS Equipable Schlong.esp
111 6f     Spartan Bard Outfit UNP LE.esp
112 70     TERAArmors_CBBE.esp
113 71     Dwarven Modular Automaton.esp
114 72     HDT Maid Outfit.esp
115 73     HDT Maid Outfit Slot Change.esp
116 74     Amarna.esp
117 75     LairOfDarkness.esp
118 76     Lucien.esp
119 77     DarkEnvoy.esp
120 78     SummonVampireCattle.esp
121 79     DX Druid Armor.esp
122 7a     Celes Rogue Armor UNP LE.esp
123 7b     ExpandedJewelryCrafting.esp
124 7c     Leah Lilith Jewelry.esp
125 7d     GomaArmorEgypt.esp
126 7e     CBBE BisPackage.esp
127 7f     ForestNymph CBBE.esp
128 80     XN_Sagittarius.esp
129 81     CBBE Lust Control.esp
130 82     AnubAnimObj.esp
131 83     No NPC Greetings.esp
132 84     SexLab_DibellaCult_Sisters.esp
133 85     Necrosarium.esp
134 86     NibblesAnimObjects.esp
135 87     SexLabTools.esp
136 88     [COCO]ahegao_tshirt.esp
137 89     [COCO]chunli_qipao.esp
138 8a     [COCO]LaceBody.esp
139 8b     Brows.esp
140 8c     SuccubusRaceLite.esp
141 8d     SuccubusRaceRealFlyingPatch.esp
142 8e     SLRetread.esp
143 8f     Ciceriareplacor.esp
144 90     DOA5.esp
145 91     Jinxxed Followers - Yoruichi.esp
146 92     Fachry ZONE-tan Follower.esp
147 93     AetherSuite.esp
148 94     Ragged Slave Skirt.esp
149 95     SOSRaceMenu.esp
150 96     BloodMagicArmor.esp
151 97     AetherSuite_TeleportMenu.esp
152 98     [COCO]MiYo_Suit.esp
153 99     [COCO]Black_cat.esp
154 9a     beinz_plugin.esp
155 9b     Lilith Vampire Companion.esp
156 9c     SuccubusCBBE3GiftByNausicaa.esp
157 9d     HeartBreaker.esp
158 9e     MystVisionFilters.esp
159 9f     [GarudaB]DOA5_Marie_DesingAward.esp
160 a0     Dance for Septims.esp
161 a1     C5Kev's Text From The Black Books CBBE.esp
162 a2     [Melodic] Eastern Collection.esp
163 a3     [Melodic] Amy.esp
164 a4     [Melodic] Infernal Succubus.esp
165 a5     [COCO]KDA Kaisa.esp
166 a6     ZAZNoFallbackGags.esp
167 a7     NIND-Arsenic Slave Outfit.esp
168 a8     ZaitamaStandaloneUniqueArmorCBBE-NIND.esp
169 a9     DX Witch Hunter Armor.esp
170 aa     SLAL_AnimationsByLeito.esp
171 ab     Apocalypse - The Spell Package.esp
172 ac     SpaceWikingSpecialEffectFreyjaGems.esp
173 ad     LustmordVampireArmor.esp
174 ae     C5Kev's Hermaeus Mora Tomes.esp
175 af     Daedric Reaper Armor.esp
176 b0     HDT Piercingsets.esp
177 b1     Honoka Pasties.esp
178 b2     [Kirax] Project Vindictus Vol.1 Remastered.esp
179 b3     SlaveTatsMagicManager.esp
180 b4     Moolgogi Serana.esp
181 b5     RaceMenu.esp
182 b6     RaceMenuPlugin.esp
183 b7     nazonootokoAnimSLAL.esp
184 b8     [NIND] RZ_HurtfulLily.esp
185 b9     succubus yy edit.esp
186 ba     HakuWeddingDress.esp
187 bb     RSChildren Patch - USLEEP.esp
188 bc     RSCOnaked.esp
189 bd     RSCOarmors.esp
190 be     RSCOsos.esp
191 bf     00FacialExpressions.esp
192 c0     Alternate Start - Live Another Life.esp
193 c1     SexLab_DibellaCult.esp
194 c2     Sacrosanct - Vampires of Skyrim.esp
195 c3     SexLab_Solutions.esp
196 c4     SexLab Confabulation.esp
197 c5     EstrusChaurus.esp
198 c6     SexLab Eager NPCs.esp
199 c7     SCS_RacePatch_Succubus.esp
200 c8     Deviously Cursed Loot LAL AddOn.esp
201 c9     SexLab Confabulation - Solutions Patch.esp
202 ca     Bashed Patch, 0.esp
 

 

[Sgt. Marge]

I think I was having the exact same navmesh problem as described here, NPC's were having a traffic jam on the road right in front of the forge in Riverwood near Alvor's house.  It looks like the same spot as the pictures posted by OP.  I was able to resolve it by disabling the SOS - Shop.esp file.  No more traffic jam!  I never used the shop but I'll miss the shirtless man that ran it...

 

I know this is a year old thread but I just wanted to post this in case someone in the future finds this thread and maybe it will help.

[Rajulio42978]

On 4/9/2021 at 12:04 PM, Sgt. Marge said:

I think I was having the exact same navmesh problem as described here, NPC's were having a traffic jam on the road right in front of the forge in Riverwood near Alvor's house.  It looks like the same spot as the pictures posted by OP.  I was able to resolve it by disabling the SOS - Shop.esp file.  No more traffic jam!  I never used the shop but I'll miss the shirtless man that ran it...

 

I know this is a year old thread but I just wanted to post this in case someone in the future finds this thread and maybe it will help.

Thank you so much. Had this same issue, but they didn't all gather in one spot. Alvor and Hadvar didn't go into Alvors house, they just stood in the road, and so did a few other NPC's just kind of stuck in a limbo staring at each other and moving 2-3 steps over and then moving back to that spot. Can confirm it is cause of the SOS Shop. Thought it might have been the Holds Overhaul mod that changed the layout, or immersive AI, but disabling SOS Shop esp fixed the problem immediately on load up. Maybe the hold mod, mixed with the SOS shop being added broke the pathing, not sure but since I got what I need I'm just gonna move on and call this a win. but for anyone having that issue, it is indeed SOS Shop breaking Riverwoods pathing. If it's happening in Dawstar like I think I saw someone saying, it could be another ESP or added on location added by a mod. Not sure. Just thought I'd share for anyone experiencing this issue.