Sims 4 Patreon/paywall dividing community?

[Guest]

While I totally appreciate people wanting to use patreon to support creators, I hate seeing creators turn against the communities by abandoning them and only releasing content behind a patreon paywall after generating attention here.

 

It seems like a lot of creators have forgotten Maxis/EA own statement that says it would like to see content creators release everything they make for free a couple months after patreon only releases so that everybody can enjoy it.  Not just the rich or well off who can pay 10-30$USD for it monthly.

 

Honestly I think patreon has really split the community overall now with its walled garden of sims content.  Most creators release content around the $5 mark or more and while I have no issue supporting early releases with the odd exclusive piece - its when the creator stops releasing updates of his mods to the larger community for free that I think shows real greed and disrespect for us.

 

I also think its begun to split the community in general, already discord groups and multiple websites have been created to share paywall patreon content for free which says more about the content creators then the community.  Think about it, these websites or discords wouldn't exist if the sheer amount of content created wasn't locked behind paywalls/patreon in the first place.  A lot of people don't even bother checking creators pages anymore who don't update regularly on here and instead use these websites for content updates.

 

To me thats sad, because it means you've lost the respect of the community who no longer looks directly to you for new content because they don't trust it will be free any longer.

 

Not only that, supporting creators on patreon is stupid expensive especially since its all in USD.  I'm Canadian so even supporting 2 creators for $5 would cost me nearly $16 a month after exchange.  I would get more value subscribing to a gaming pass from Microsoft or heck EA at those prices per month with access to full games vs a few animations or mod update.  Still I know there are those who have a lot more money to spend then me or simply let it pile on their credit card.

 

Again I have no issue with supporting creators, my issue is how so many creators appear to either abandon mods on here, while updating them on patreon or only release new content patreon now.

 

Thoughts?

[27X]

1. This has been a thing for a decade+ and started with Sims2. So you're either really new, really naive or particularly mad/sad about a specific mod or author.

 

2. Considering what "Maxis" (frankly what's left of it) has done to the Sims brand none of this is ever going to change until EA starts the branding for the next game, and you can bet any policy or modding change they make will not be for modders' nor players' benefit, if you're puzzled why I used the word Maxis and not EA you're frankly part of the problem, and you probably won't add much to the content or discussion going forward. Also for those wondering how Bioware could have taken a hard turn for the suck under EA's aegis, the person responsible is the same person currently turning the Sim(s) brand into a shovelware umbrella and shutting down the actual Maxis studio in the first place.

 

3. You're way too late btw, the Sims started down this road during the heyday of GMod paid content and the everyone accepted it then without complaint, so you're advocating behavior that's been par for the course since literally 15 years ago.

 

4. LL policy is very simple and very clear, if a mod is paid and doesn't offer free versions on a permanently ongoing basis, you can't advertise it here, period. Simply report the offending mod and movie on. If the author is a grade A fuckstick that offers one mod in the beginning free and then everything else is paid, maybe you should pick a better author to download from.

[Ingun Black-Briar]

42 minutes ago, 27X said:

1. This has been a thing for a decade+ and started with Sims2. So you're either really new, really naive or particularly mad/sad about a specific mod or author.

 

2. Considering what "Maxis" (frankly what's left of it) has done to the Sims brand none of this is ever going to change until EA starts the branding for the next game, and you can bet any policy or modding change they make will not be for modders' nor players' benefit, if you're puzzled why I used the word Maxis and not EA you're frankly part of the problem, and you probably won't add much to the content or discussion going forward. Also for those wondering how Bioware could have taken should a hard turn for the suck under EA's aegis, the person responsible is the same person currently turning the Sim(s) brand into a shovelware umbrella and shutting down the actual Maxis studio in the first place.

 

3. You're way too late btw, the Sims started down this road during the heyday of GMod paid content and the everyone accepted it then without complaint, so you're advocating behavior that's been par for the course since literally 15 years ago.

 

4. LL policy is very simple and very clear, if a mod is paid and doesn't offer free versions on a permanently ongoing basis, you can't advertise it here, period. Simply report the offending mod and movie on. If the author is a grade A fuckstick that offers one mod in the beginning free and then everything else is paid, maybe you should pick a better author to download from.

You really said everything there is to be said about paid content in my opinion. Personally, I loathed the paysites and attempted scams by stolen content back in the old days, and I am very grateful Patreon exists to give me a transparent choice regarding the content I want to have in my game and how much I want to pay for it. Instead of shelling out 20 bucks for some site membership I can select to support my fave creators with as little as one buck a month if I decide I don't need their premium content the second they publish it. It will be made available here for free eventually. I have 100% control over how much I want to support individual mods, and if money is tight it's a matter of seconds to change a subscription. Honestly, this is much better than Pa----- Sims and similar thieves of other people's content who then sold it in their own little forums.

 

You want to support mods and creators? You have transparency and know exactly what you get for your money.

Money's too tight or you simply don't want to pay for content? It will be made available for free after some time, or there are free  'slim' versions of more complex mods for you to enjoy.

All donations go to the people who created the content and not to people who steal other creators' work and sell it as their own.

Honestly, if you really have to go and find free Patreon only versions of mods I don't know what to tell you. You must be pretty entitled if you honestly feel you need to have everything in your game, but for free, and contribute nothing in return. Hell, I want to drive my own Audi R8 and live in a luxurious loft, but I can't afford these things and I understand I am not entitled to them. I don't steal someone else's Audi because I feel I totally deserve one for free.

There was a time when I was broke af and wanted to play all the TS3 expansions even though I couldn't afford them. I did play them.

And when I was back on my feet I bought them all although I already had them, because I value other people's work and I understand that you sometimes pay for the things you enjoy in life. You don't go to a good restaurant and eat there for free. If you are entertained by something, value it. If you have 20 bucks to eat at Mickey D's five days a week you have 20 bucks to support a game or creator that gives you hours of joy and entertainment. It's simple.

 

Wow, this totally turned into a rant. Oh well, guess I feel more passionate about all of this than I thought.

[FauxFurry]

4 hours ago, 27X said:

1. This has been a thing for a decade+ and started with Sims2. So you're either really new, really naive or particularly mad/sad about a specific mod or author.

 

2. Considering what "Maxis" (frankly what's left of it) has done to the Sims brand none of this is ever going to change until EA starts the branding for the next game, and you can bet any policy or modding change they make will not be for modders' nor players' benefit, if you're puzzled why I used the word Maxis and not EA you're frankly part of the problem, and you probably won't add much to the content or discussion going forward. Also for those wondering how Bioware could have taken a hard turn for the suck under EA's aegis, the person responsible is the same person currently turning the Sim(s) brand into a shovelware umbrella and shutting down the actual Maxis studio in the first place.

 

3. You're way too late btw, the Sims started down this road during the heyday of GMod paid content and the everyone accepted it then without complaint, so you're advocating behavior that's been par for the course since literally 15 years ago.

 

4. LL policy is very simple and very clear, if a mod is paid and doesn't offer free versions on a permanently ongoing basis, you can't advertise it here, period. Simply report the offending mod and movie on. If the author is a grade A fuckstick that offers one mod in the beginning free and then everything else is paid, maybe you should pick a better author to download from.

You forgot to mention The Sims 3 paid mod shop hosted by Maxis itself.

[Elsalovescocaine]

well if people create animations 3d works and more  that spend time and require lots of work , they have the right to ask for something in exchange like money. but you are right some people use patreon illegaly and could be demanded. for example those who use 3d models from games and port in to another games,asking money for that, if  the model wasnt created by you, you cannot ask money for that is several copyright violation . so rip  your home and life if a lawyer block your bank account and demand you. 

in that case patreon needs a limit. I have seen a lot of stolen copyright models mods  there for money.   if is your own content like people do with sims 4 mods. is legal asking for something exchange.

[trickster37]

I am a new player, so I do not know the history of this issue.  But here are a few observations direct and to the point

1)The Majority of modders who use patreon do in fact release for free their updated mods.  I'm indifferent if it takes 3 months, im not in a rush.

2) Not all of the modders who use patreon to make a buck release their mods here for free.  Some will tweak their package by say adding one animation to their free package and say they are releasing it for free, meanwhile, they have quite a large number hoarded behind a pay wall.  This, I think, goes against the spirit of the rule, not the letter of the rule.  So, it comes down to the individual: their available disposable cash (hahahaha) versus the need for the object.

3) Some charge prejudicial amounts to certain communities: almost all of the LGBTQ animations are locked behind 2x ,3x or even 4x the base patreon fee for hetero animations.  And the common justification is " just use hetero animations just set wicked whims to ignore gender".  Its not the same. Hetero or homo animations take the same amount of work. For example on one patreon animator i have to pay 6 bucks to get the LGBTQ animations while the hetero module is 2 bucks.  To be clear, the LGBTQ module is seperate from the hetero and the hetero module contains NO LGBTQ animations.  For the record: I gave that modder the 6 bucks for one month to get the LGBTQ module to add to my game.  I won't be renewing that patreon.  I moved that 6 bucks to other modders because they mix gay and straight animations together.

4) Life of economics: Simply put tough shit if its too expensive for you.  That is life and it sucks and seems unfair.  If you cant afford the new stuff, you cant afford it end of the discussion, go enjoy all the other stuff that's free that you can enjoy.  "Keeping up with the joneses": fuck the jonses, enjoy what you have.  It's a trap when you think you HAVE to have the newest and the best.  You'll put yourself in teh poor house chasing the Jonses...

5) Some modders are making good cash, really good cash, for what they did, are doing and will do.   Whicked Whims for example.  S/He makes good bucks on her/his patreon account, including from me, and Nisa as well. AWESOME FOR THEM!!!  Unlike the group in number 2, they listen to the community, respond, keep creating etc.  I am glad to see them making good bucks and I am glad to give them the amount of a good cup of coffee once a month.

6) To The OP: I get your frustration.  It is not a pleasant feeling. But, I call you to task: it is not dividing the community in the sense you are trying to make.  It is not. Not having the latest and greatest animation or mod is not suffering, painful, detrimental to your life.  It doesn't make your game play less in any way.  I agree the base game is really boring as shit.  In general the base game is boring as shit in the sense there is no conflict or adaptability or progression or change.  The Mods bring a lot of the missing verve to the game.  I am admittedly still recovering from shock from the Violence mods: they were over the top FOR ME!  Tho I got a lot of shits and giggles from psycho toddler...

 

These are just my opinions, granted from a newbie, like em, hate em, disagree with them. Just have some fun will ya...

[rdrakken]

Yes, paid mods are the bane of modding communities. While I can understand it if someone wants to be paid for their work, it is still a thing that wrecks the community which relies on each others assets as well as assistance to expand the community and available mods.

The best way to deal with the issue is simple. Dont. Pay. For. Mods. Stick to your ideals in everything. If you dont support them, they wont grow.

I myself have been suggesting that all mod hosting sites have a "donation" button that leads to patreon, paypal and other ways people can donate to a modder if they love their work so much they wish to support them, they can do so, and I was doing this all the way back in 2006 on Nexus when modding for Oblivion was starting to take off for the very reason of preventing another Sims 2 fiasco that was brewing.

Just dont pay for mods.

[0wnyx]

my mod folder is around 10 gb big... only free content, i am happy with it. i guess every modder releases or released free stuff at some point, this is what you have to accept, if u need something bad u will find it for fee eventually. if you think this is bad just look at other gaming communities... dlc-pack opening bundle-loot-box gamble retards.... that is truely cancerous and its even reaching almost every community now. i am not worried over some patron beggars.

 

i ask myself if i ever will donate something on patron, the answer is no lol... i might do it for redfactions content because it looks like sims 5 however i will wait on that... his hole patron setup is almost to professional, i dont trust his personal motivation story, oh well if he can pull his plan off he can be a maxis animator for all i care.

[Guest]

On 9/11/2019 at 7:35 PM, FauxFurry said:

You forgot to mention The Sims 3 paid mod shop hosted by Maxis itself.

What paid mod shop? If you're talking about the Sims 3 Store that isn't a paid mod shop it's nothing more than a money grab. And despite popular belief Maxis with the exception of the last 3 EP's in which they only served as an advisory role never had anything to do with the Sims 3 that was EA's Sims Studio. EA hosted the Sims 3 Store not Maxis.

 

The Sims brand was yanked away from Maxis by EA and placed under The Sims Studio. It was EA's attempt to try to go beyond just being a publisher and becoming a developer as well as a publisher.

[Guest]

On 9/11/2019 at 3:04 PM, 27X said:

2. Considering what "Maxis" (frankly what's left of it) has done to the Sims brand

Only partially right EA had more than a hand in screwing the Sims brand. The Sims brand was taken away from Maxis by EA and placed under The Sims Studio in 2006. The Sims 3 and all sims game till 2013 was all controlled and developed by EA. The Sims 4 had been in development since 2011 and when EA gave control of The Sims brand back to Maxis in 2013 the Sims 4 was already a clusterfuck.

[Excorsion]

On 9/11/2019 at 2:04 PM, 27X said:

1. This has been a thing for a decade+ and started with Sims2. So you're either really new, really naive or particularly mad/sad about a specific mod or author.

 

2. Considering what "Maxis" (frankly what's left of it) has done to the Sims brand none of this is ever going to change until EA starts the branding for the next game, and you can bet any policy or modding change they make will not be for modders' nor players' benefit, if you're puzzled why I used the word Maxis and not EA you're frankly part of the problem, and you probably won't add much to the content or discussion going forward. Also for those wondering how Bioware could have taken a hard turn for the suck under EA's aegis, the person responsible is the same person currently turning the Sim(s) brand into a shovelware umbrella and shutting down the actual Maxis studio in the first place.

 

3. You're way too late btw, the Sims started down this road during the heyday of GMod paid content and the everyone accepted it then without complaint, so you're advocating behavior that's been par for the course since literally 15 years ago.

 

4. LL policy is very simple and very clear, if a mod is paid and doesn't offer free versions on a permanently ongoing basis, you can't advertise it here, period. Simply report the offending mod and movie on. If the author is a grade A fuckstick that offers one mod in the beginning free and then everything else is paid, maybe you should pick a better author to download from.

Number 1) true except you are assuming they are mad at a specific creator that is you putting that i there to validate your point which it really doesn't....

 

Number 2) EA/maxis is still puttting out content for sims 4.... so your point is invalid and just a opinion....

 

Number 3) he is not late he is keeping the arguement going so as to not let it be forgotten... case in point I have spoken out against the policy here not being enforced.. got a canned repsonse that it was being revised and yet never was revised... that was well over a year ago. But let someone call out a creator who is bending the rules and the they get jumped on by people like you who think you are gods gift to programming... sorry but your point is still invalid.

 

number 4) you are misqouting the policy to fit your agenda... you must watch too much cnn... the policy is content can not be locked behind a paywall without being released in about 3 months and advertised here... so animators who make patreon only releases are infact breaking the policy rule when they leave certain animations behind thier paywall but advertise for thier patreaon as a whole hee at LL.

 

I for one have given up on LL ever protecting those who are not creators.... plain and simple... they don't get paid by creators for the web site but they do get traffic from them... but what happens when creators can no longer make a living off this web site thru advertising? LL needs to understand that letting creators screw over others will just chase those looking for mods off... and then the creators will move on to another thing because they can no longer make a living... then LL no longer gets the traffic and as you can see the site will eventually die. So LL needs to enforce thier policy and stop the paywall abuse that is very easy to see... let me name names.. let there being some type self regulating happen here.. instead of LL throwing a security blanket over creators so they can act like fidel castro.

[Excorsion]

On 9/14/2019 at 12:01 PM, trickster37 said:

I am a new player, so I do not know the history of this issue.  But here are a few observations direct and to the point

1)The Majority of modders who use patreon do in fact release for free their updated mods.  I'm indifferent if it takes 3 months, im not in a rush.

2) Not all of the modders who use patreon to make a buck release their mods here for free.  Some will tweak their package by say adding one animation to their free package and say they are releasing it for free, meanwhile, they have quite a large number hoarded behind a pay wall.  This, I think, goes against the spirit of the rule, not the letter of the rule.  So, it comes down to the individual: their available disposable cash (hahahaha) versus the need for the object.

3) Some charge prejudicial amounts to certain communities: almost all of the LGBTQ animations are locked behind 2x ,3x or even 4x the base patreon fee for hetero animations.  And the common justification is " just use hetero animations just set wicked whims to ignore gender".  Its not the same. Hetero or homo animations take the same amount of work. For example on one patreon animator i have to pay 6 bucks to get the LGBTQ animations while the hetero module is 2 bucks.  To be clear, the LGBTQ module is seperate from the hetero and the hetero module contains NO LGBTQ animations.  For the record: I gave that modder the 6 bucks for one month to get the LGBTQ module to add to my game.  I won't be renewing that patreon.  I moved that 6 bucks to other modders because they mix gay and straight animations together.

4) Life of economics: Simply put tough shit if its too expensive for you.  That is life and it sucks and seems unfair.  If you cant afford the new stuff, you cant afford it end of the discussion, go enjoy all the other stuff that's free that you can enjoy.  "Keeping up with the joneses": fuck the jonses, enjoy what you have.  It's a trap when you think you HAVE to have the newest and the best.  You'll put yourself in teh poor house chasing the Jonses...

5) Some modders are making good cash, really good cash, for what they did, are doing and will do.   Whicked Whims for example.  S/He makes good bucks on her/his patreon account, including from me, and Nisa as well. AWESOME FOR THEM!!!  Unlike the group in number 2, they listen to the community, respond, keep creating etc.  I am glad to see them making good bucks and I am glad to give them the amount of a good cup of coffee once a month.

6) To The OP: I get your frustration.  It is not a pleasant feeling. But, I call you to task: it is not dividing the community in the sense you are trying to make.  It is not. Not having the latest and greatest animation or mod is not suffering, painful, detrimental to your life.  It doesn't make your game play less in any way.  I agree the base game is really boring as shit.  In general the base game is boring as shit in the sense there is no conflict or adaptability or progression or change.  The Mods bring a lot of the missing verve to the game.  I am admittedly still recovering from shock from the Violence mods: they were over the top FOR ME!  Tho I got a lot of shits and giggles from psycho toddler...

 

These are just my opinions, granted from a newbie, like em, hate em, disagree with them. Just have some fun will ya...

Your point number 6... you say it is not dividing the community? then why is this threat even here? yep just proved your whole point wrong.... Mkay? Part of that division is LL's fault... they protect the creators from being called out for thier blatant abuse of the policy... all because LL doesn't want creators chased off... well if they are abusive creators then why would you want them here anyway? BTW since you seem to not understand this has been a issue for years... not just something that suddenly came up... so yes years of frustration is stupid when LL could solve it by enforcing thie rpolicies or flat out change them to be fair to all.

[27X]

Cool wall of whatever but Sim modders being greedy dicks existed before LL did, and I'm not sure what cnn has to do with anything, but whatever your politics are fuck them, they suck and so does you inserting them into something that has nothing to do with them. LL moderators have stated time and again if someone is violating their 3 month policy to report it. Also lol at you saying it's been a problem for years when it was a problem before this site existed.

[trickster37]

3 hours ago, Excorsion said:

Your point number 6... you say it is not dividing the community? then why is this threat even here? yep just proved your whole point wrong.... Mkay? Part of that division is LL's fault... they protect the creators from being called out for thier blatant abuse of the policy... all because LL doesn't want creators chased off... well if they are abusive creators then why would you want them here anyway? BTW since you seem to not understand this has been a issue for years... not just something that suddenly came up... so yes years of frustration is stupid when LL could solve it by enforcing thie rpolicies or flat out change them to be fair to all.

Uhm, no. please read carefully.  The community is not divided.  Having a disagreement on the spirit of the rules is not community dividing.

 

Second, you didnt read as right in the beginning i clearly stated i was new and don't have the same history.

 

If you're going to criticize, get the facts understood first.

[0wnyx]

is this "problem" on ll going on in other sub-forums as well ?

i see skyrim is above anything else in traffic data, the mods however are very complicated to install and i would say not very marketable compared to the sims4 easy copy and paste method.