So who thinks the pipboy replacing armor is utterly retarded and stupid ?

[astymma]

See, now I'm of the opinion that what *I* enjoy should have no bearing whatsoever on what other people enjoy. I actually agree with Kashiwaba on more points than not regarding Tactics, F1+2, FO3 and FNV... but... arguing over why anyone likes one game over another is pointless. What you enjoy is unrelated to what other people might enjoy. Just let them enjoy it. What is a valid debate is how popularity affects what game companies then make in the future. What is currently trending is style over substance. For me personally, I would much rather see an excellent story with good acting (as an example, VtM: than see a beautifully rendered game with a poor story and acting (as an example, Skyrim). As for canon being good or bad, that's a waste of breath. The company that owns the property decides canon and we simply have to adapt to it. I do agree that all the retconning in the Fallout Bible was not a positive step but that's just my opinion based on what I prefer as an origin generator between radiation or FEV.

to op but related to current discussion>

 

As for the OP question... I have no issue with the Pipboy being very visible and blocking armor/clothing being worn there. In every Fallout property I've played (nearly all), the Pipboy has been visible to every person you speak to (dialogue often reflects its visibility through NPC comments). It is, after all, the canon UI representation for gameplay. Now, obviously, for realism and choice you should be able to take it off and travel around without it on occasion. That does present a conflict with UI usage but that's a UI problem and not a story problem.

 

Heck, it's not like it's all that difficult to replace the Pipboy with any implementation you would want. It's just replacing the animations, replacing the device models, choosing its slot (to avoid armor conflicts) and redesigning the UI presented to the player (like Readius does). It's certainly a project but I don't see any canon reason why any player should be forced to use a Pipboy. There was bound to be competitor products available in the world used by industry and the public when need demanded.

[Kashiwaba Tomoe]

... it'd be like when I got a friend that's a FPS gamer to play Fallout once.... he kept wondering why everyone shot at him' date=' all he was doing was pickpocketing them.[/quote']

Ah yes, for just such people, the compass and the theft icon were invented and inflicted on us all. The same people ensured we got nothing that flies in Oblivion. Clifracers were so hated by people who couldn't grasp they were perfect practice for destruction spells or ranged weapons. Oh no, they were irritating because you couldn't hit them with a sword till they came to you.

 

Alas, we are cursed with the lowest common denominator trend which just dominates gaming these days.

 

Well to be fair I used raged stuff on them all the time, but I hated them too, because they just showed up from nowhere just a often as they were easy to snipe, that said I haven't played the game in quite some time, I only got it (came with my xbox) while I was in Iraq, after my laptop died and I needed something to do other than masturbate in my spare time.

 

 

 

See' date=' now I'm of the opinion that what *I* enjoy should have no bearing whatsoever on what other people enjoy.

[/quote']

 

And THAT is what sucks most of all about F3 (and yes NV too, same engine) and Bethesda in general these days.

 

THEY choose to dumb down and reduce the gaming experience from the previous game, and then they have M'aiq the liar get dialouge mocking those that complain about the missing stuff.

[Kamen Rider Kuuga]

This will be my very final post in this topic, because if I did any more, I'm afraid I would say something horrible. The desire to act like an adult tends to get pushed aside when emotion comes into play.

 

 

I've been gaming for the last 23 years; my first consoles were the Atari 2600 and the NES. There was no such thing as hand holding back then. By the age of 10, I was playing the old Sierra adventure games, going so far back as to having to use a text parser to get anything done. Those games never held you hand, they never gave you a quest arrow; Hell, to get anything done, you would sometimes have to throw anything and everything you could imagine, in odd combinations, to get a section done, the logic was so messed up.

 

However, I do not look at games today with their quest arrows and hand holding and go "Damn console kiddies these days, ruining it for everybody else!", because, honestly, it doesn't effect my ability to enjoy myself. Because that's what games are; things to be enjoyed. My favorite game in the TES series is Oblivion; I've gotten so much shit for that. Mostly from Morrowind fans, calling me a noob and a kid because I love a game with quest arrows and fast travel.

 

Yes, 95% of the time the quest arrow is useless; it points you to a place you already know you have to. But there's that 5% where you have some clues, or none at all, and you're expected to do it. I could go on about mod quests, but let's get back to Morrowind for a moment and the Cavern of the Incarnate. It took me an hour to find that place, even with a map, even with knowing what to look for. I climbed so many mountains that day that I think Everest was jealous. I finally came across the cave and went about my way.

 

Let's take another; the Fields of Kummu. It took me 20 minutes to find that place, all the while having to stop to let the woman I was escorting catch up to me.

 

There was no reason for me to spend an hour looking at maps, climbing mountains and praying I would find the cave some time in the next days. There was no reason to spend almost a half hour looking for some fields. Some would say "that's part of the fun!", but for me, that's tedious busy work. The same with not having fast travel; it's tedious busy work having to memorize what Silt Strider or boat goes from what town to the other, or finding the Pylon Indices.

 

Maybe I'm to blame for this for being an idiot; that's possible. I've never been the brightest bulb in the box. But I play these games to have fun, not to spend an ungodly amount of time fumbling around, or running across the map to get back to the story or the fun itself. This is why I can never, and will never deride the "console kiddies" for "dumbing down" games with things like quest arrows and fast travel.

 

 

Also, I still like the Pip Boy the way it is.

[Kashiwaba Tomoe]

Yes' date=' 95% of the time the quest arrow is useless; it points you to a place you already know you have to. But there's that 5% where you have some clues, or none at all, and you're expected to do it.[/quote']

 

Yup, that's the FUN challenge, FIGURING IT OUT.

 

Sure there's the occasional fuckup on the devolpers part (or common fuckup in bethesdas case) but that's what thinking is for, and if a game is made well, having to actually stop and think, rather than go 'hmmm I killed everyone why isn't it done', is where the real fun is.

 

I could go on about mod quests

 

Which is also wholy irrelvent to this situation' date=' and lets face it if the mod sucks bad enough to require a quest arrow, it's likely not worth a DL.

 

but let's get back to Morrowind for a moment and the Cavern of the Incarnate. It took me an hour to find that place, even with a map

 

Yup, thats a BIG part of the challenge at times, finding something that's meant to be hard to find.

 

That was one thing I loved about that game, it didn't hold your hand that much.

 

 

There was no reason for me to spend an hour looking at maps' date=' climbing mountains and praying I would find the cave some time in the next days.[/quote']

 

Yes there was, it was in your quest log infact.

 

 

There was no reason to spend almost a half hour looking for some fields. Some would say "that's part of the fun!"' date=' but for me, that's tedious busy work.[/quote']

 

So would you prefer an oblivion mod for HALO then ?

 

 

 

The same with not having fast travel; it's tedious busy work having to memorize what Silt Strider or boat goes from what town to the other' date=' or finding the Pylon Indices.[/quote']

 

Hence the term ROLE PLAYING.

 

The player characther isn't able to, in story, pop place to place without effort. In many ways the travel method of FO/FO2 was best.

You travel, but based on your stats have a chance to be attacked enroute, or at higher skill levels, have a choice of the encounter.

 

No player skill involved, it's all up to stats.

 

 

Maybe I'm to blame for this for being an idiot; that's possible. I've never been the brightest bulb in the box. But I play these games to have fun, not to spend an ungodly amount of time fumbling around, or running across the map to get back to the story or the fun itself. This is why I can never, and will never deride the "console kiddies" for "dumbing down" games with things like quest arrows and fast travel.

 

 

So basically you're a FPS fan that likes to RPG aspects, but can't handle a serious RPG (spoiler: Bethesda's games are not serious RPGs, but action adventure games with RPG elements)

 

 

Well I'll say this: years ago, NMA and DAC were right, and they still are. (Minus Rosh, he was just an ass)

[Symon]

I'm going to gently rebut this.

Firstly, if we want age-related bona fides, I first played a computer game back in 1979 (so that's 33 years ago). I was 19 and it was hack on a DEC-20. (Loved that mainframe).

 

I have NEVER played on a console.

 

All BaconMinion's complaints about finding things would be valid but for one thing. I too struggled at times to find things in Morrowind. (Though not that often). Rather than blunder about though, I admitted I couldn't find something and googled for it. Problem solved.

 

We have search engines, so we don't need no stinking compass.

 

Further, some people like searching for things. Out of the box, their desires are dismissed, because the console generation want instant gratification. Rightly or wrongly, I do blame consoles for ALL the ills of computer games these days.

 

Case in point: Why do Oblivion and FO3 only have 8 quick keys? I have ten convenient numbers on my keyboard. Morrowind has ten!

 

Answer: Because a console controller can only easily handle eight!!!

 

I rest my case. The computer experience was damaged (in a very minor way) for the convenience of the console jockeys. If, like with Morrowind, Oblivion and later Beth games had been designed for the PC with no compromises, and then ported to the console, with all it's limitations, we'd have had a better game.

[Kashiwaba Tomoe]

Symon, there are many other issues along that line of thought:

 

1- HORRIBLE interface.

 

Seriously, the F3 interface is utterly shit.

You don't even get inventory pictures of the item, or a nice description of it like you used to (in FO/FO2, or even Tactics did a great job in that aspect).

 

The problem is they make the interface FOR console, and fuck the PC market it gets the same one, despite the keyboard/mouse allowing for a different (or at least alternate) GUI setup.

 

2- controllers.

 

Anyone want to use a gamepad on their PC in F3/NV ? Good luck unless it's a propiretiary xbox controller, or a mod is used.

 

Basically, that's bethesda saying 'fuck you' to all PC gamers.

 

3- Dialouge.

 

Anyone remember the quality dialouges in FO/FO2 ?

The voice of Richard Dean Anderson as Killian Darkwater, or Michael Dorn as Marcus ?

 

It wasn't their voices that pulled it off, good as they were, it was the quality writing.

 

And while yes there were generic dialouges in FO/FO2, they were done in a way that would not be annoying, but would changed based on player stats, player gear, progression in various quests, and other factors.

 

And more than that, it MADE SENSE. No 'oh you have the look of a INSERT SKILL HERE' bullshit like in Oblivion, instead you had dialouges, AND RESPONSES, that would often be verbose, and a pleasure to read.

 

Of course the average console kiddy doesn't do good at reading or anything that doesn't get a commerical saying cool kids do it.

 

 

I could go on (how the fuck do they call the games RPGs when player skill plays a bigger factor than Player Characther stats during combat, for example) but I'd be either preaching to the choir, or wasting my breath (figurativley speaking)

[UnEvenSteven]

I could go on (how the fuck do they call the games RPGs when player skill plays a bigger factor than Player Characther stats during combat' date=' for example) but I'd be either preaching to the choir, or wasting my breath (figurativley speaking)

[/quote']

 

That and you're beating that long-dead horse. Actually there's probably nothing left of that horse as it has been beaten so much over the past 4 years.

[Kashiwaba Tomoe]

Actually it was beaten dead before Oblivion even came out.

[UnEvenSteven]

Well Morrowind was the first game I played from Bethesda years ago, none other from them before that. I played it again recently after not touching for a few years, after playing Oblivion and Fallout 3 I ask, "What the hell happened?".

 

That started catering to the younger and simpler-minded masses...

 

EDIT: Probably too late but here's another replacer for the PipBoy. This one is based on the Readius, PipBoy 3500

[Kashiwaba Tomoe]

Yeah I saw that, I just prefer the other one myself, I always saw the classic pipboy as a more PDA type thing, sorta like an ipad that's durable and has buttons and dials.

[srayesmanll]

I have NEVER played on a console.

 

You're missing out on some fun games by not having a console. But as always it comes down to game preference' date=' so if the types of games you like are available on the PC, then a console is useless. Frankly, with the modding fun I'm having in FONV and Skyrim, I haven't touched my 360 except to use as a media extender. Oh, well.

 

All BaconMinion's complaints about finding things would be valid but for one thing. I too struggled at times to find things in Morrowind. (Though not that often). Rather than blunder about though, I admitted I couldn't find something and googled for it. Problem solved.

 

We have search engines, so we don't need no stinking compass.

 

I like the compass, but I also like that I can not use it by deselecting the quests. Best of both worlds.

 

Further, some people like searching for things. Out of the box, their desires are dismissed, because the console generation want instant gratification. Rightly or wrongly, I do blame consoles for ALL the ills of computer games these days.

 

Case in point: Why do Oblivion and FO3 only have 8 quick keys? I have ten convenient numbers on my keyboard. Morrowind has ten!

 

Answer: Because a console controller can only easily handle eight!!!

 

Answer this one for me: why did Bethesda on the 360 version and vanilla PC version only have 2 for Skyrim? That's about the dumbest thing I've ever seen. First mod when I got the PC version of Skyrim: a 360 controller mod that at least got it to 8. (Yes, I know, "Controller, blech...". I like using the controller when I play in my living room sitting in a comfortable La-Z-Boy. Cats can't accidentally kill the guards that way . If I play at my desk, then K/M all they way.)

 

I rest my case. The computer experience was damaged (in a very minor way) for the convenience of the console jockeys. If, like with Morrowind, Oblivion and later Beth games had been designed for the PC with no compromises, and then ported to the console, with all it's limitations, we'd have had a better game.

 

The console "revolution" is no excuse for poor writing by the game makers. Shame on Bethesda and other game makers.

[Kashiwaba Tomoe]

All the console 'revolution' amounts to is suddenly they can sell a box with great graphical capability for a decent price.

 

So they focus on the greater graphics, and slacked off on all else.

[Kashked]

I like the compass' date=' but I also like that I can not use it by deselecting the quests. Best of both worlds.

[/quote']

 

Problem with that is that since there is a compass they don't generally bother including a description of the way you should go. I haven't played Morrowind for years, but I remember that you got descriptions, "follow the mountain until you reaches a river then take a right etc etc etc".

 

I personally liked that, but we have to remember that games don't just have to take younger/instant gratification players into consideration, but international audience as well. Many people can't follow those kind of instructions simply since they don't know english good enough. Would be nice with an option though, assuming you got proper instructions.

[srayesmanll]

I like the compass' date=' but I also like that I can not use it by deselecting the quests. Best of both worlds.

[/quote']

 

Problem with that is that since there is a compass they don't generally bother including a description of the way you should go. I haven't played Morrowind for years, but I remember that you got descriptions, "follow the mountain until you reaches a river then take a right etc etc etc".

 

I personally liked that, but we have to remember that games don't just have to take younger/instant gratification players into consideration, but international audience as well. Many people can't follow those kind of instructions simply since they don't know english good enough. Would be nice with an option though, assuming you got proper instructions.

 

You're absolutely right on that, they are not as descriptive as they could be for the directions so that you could ignore the compass. That also goes back to the "poor writing" point made earlier.

[Kashiwaba Tomoe]

Indeed, a simple note with the directions also written down would help further in many cases, as well as make the whole separate quest/note sections more relevant.

 

Also don't get me started on all of the locked stuff............ a locked metal ammo crate, yeah even locked at 100, all you need is a pry bar and pop you just busted the latch off, and nothing inside is damaged.