Animation with item

[zarbar]

 Another issue in my little animation journey. May someone know how to add an item (e.g. apple, cup, book) into character hands via animation play? How to bind kf animation with some meshes appearing only in this animation? Need a manual.

[Symon]

http://cs.elderscrolls.com/index.php?title=Anim_Object

[zarbar]

http://cs.elderscrolls.com/index.php?title=Anim_Object

 

 Thanks a lot!

 

 Maybe you can help with one more thing. This manual [http://wiki.tesnexus.com/index.php/How_to_fix_your_animation_FAQ] says it's possible to control characters height (not literally a height, altitude to be honest) with Bip01 NonAccum. But this trick doesn't work. I'm moving this NonAccum up and down, but nothing happens. Character stays on his "standing" altitude.

[A.J.]

Sorry if I introduce myself in the "wrong" section, but I guess we use the same animation system

 

It's right you can control the height with the Bip01 NonAccum, but it has some requirements that are not always met by users. Now it depends by your mod, I don't know what it is about, but if a scripted solution can be done, maybe it would be a preferred option (i.e. SetScale, if it can achieve what you want)

[zarbar]

Sorry if I introduce myself in the "wrong" section, but I guess we use the same animation system

 

It's right you can control the height with the Bip01 NonAccum, but it has some requirements that are not always met by users. Now it depends by your mod, I don't know what it is about, but if a scripted solution can be done, maybe it would be a preferred option (i.e. SetScale, if it can achieve what you want)

 

 I'm trying to use this bone( and others, like Bip 01 and Pelvis) for changing character position in static "pose" animation. Pelvis works just fine - perfect and precise rotation of skeleton in any direction. But i don't understand how to manipulate with Bip 01 and Bip 01 NonAccum. By the way NonAccum is independent - no children, no parents. After the skeleton import it stays out of skeleton hierarchy, In NifSkope this bone stays between Bip01 and Pelvis, but if i put it there - scene goes out of control.

 

 If we're going to speak exactly about my current problem so it's about skeleton position in Max and in Oblivion. In Max i'm creating a static poses, importing some weapons and other items to make them AnimObjects later. It looks just fine. But Oblivion is not using Max zero point. It calculates all coordinates from another point. And i'm trying to understand - what object is this zero point? How shall i bind Max coordinates and Oblivion coordinates? What object is responsible?

[A.J.]

I just extracted the 3rd person skeleton nif in oblivion to check it, because I found strange that it wasn't in the hyerarchy. But as I can see, it's between Bip01 and Pelvis, just like in Fallout. It is not independent, it is the bone that decides the "offset" from the pelvis of the actor /creature and the scene root itself: the hyerarchy you see in nifskope is its real position: child of Bip01 and parent of Pelvis. I don't mod Oblivion and I can't be sure 100%, but I do know the two animation systems are pretty similar, and I would feel more inclined to think that there's something strange during import / export. I also use Blender.... so all I can say is just theoretical, due to our different systems.

 

If you feel confused about coordinates, maybe you could make a try like this: import the skeleton with some generic idle, like the mtidle or a special idle or whatever. Then remove everything but the first frame. Then re-model the first frame like you would pose the actor, then export, then check what's happen. If it works fine, you could use it as "template" for your future files.

 

The "problem" I was highlighting on the NonAccum, which would make hard using it, is the fact that you said "want to control the character's height". Now, if this should happen only while the idle is playing, it's fine. But if you want to "stick" on the new value value, i.e. you reduce/increase the character's height and you want that value be permanent, then it could be hard and it would be better using a scripted solution for that. Or using a different skeleton which allows it.

[gregathit]

My advice is NEVER use the NonAccum to animate.  It can fuck everything up.  Set your height with Bip01 and the pelvis bone.  

 

It is a known issue that Max has trouble exporting the NonAccum for some reason and it tends to turn it sideways.  

[zarbar]

My advice is NEVER use the NonAccum to animate.  It can fuck everything up.  Set your height with Bip01 and the pelvis bone.  

 

It is a known issue that Max has trouble exporting the NonAccum for some reason and it tends to turn it sideways.  

 But i still need to put NonAccum back into skeleton hierarchy because this bone actually is a "zero point". And if this bone must be a child of Bip01, then it moves with Bip01 and there is no relative motion. No shift.

[A.J.]

Fallout vanilla uses the NonAccum, I use it regularly and I never have downsides. I'm not sure if the "tends to turn it sideways" means the known problem where third person animations are rotated counter-clockwise of 90 degrees. If it's so, it's not an issue, it all depends by what you do in the 3d software. In Blender for example, you point them both in the direction of the Y axis and they won't rotate 90 degrees. Another solution is not exporting the Bip01 and use only translation for NonAccum, etc.etc. but these small details can be seen on nifskope too.

 

[gregathit]

There is no blender issue with using the non-Accum bone.  It is only for 3dsmax animators and the export scripts for Oblivion.  It often screws things up.  More than likely it is a flaw in the export script.

 

As I said before, I have seen awful things happen when using the non-accum bone and I just don't recommend it for Oblivion.  Just lock it at all zeros and use the pelvis to animate with.  The Bip01 has a standard oblivion setting to put you "on the deck" and I never use it for anything but that.  All animating is done with the pelvis.  

 

Don't know about animating for FNV as it may have different tolerances.  

[D_ManXX2]

nope both oblivion and fallout animate correctly with nonaccuum using blender only. my rigs all use the NonAccuum to move entire armature upperbody and lower body at the same time. then you animate the pelvis and spine sepraretly to make more fluent motion afterwards.

 

But cannot really say for 3dmax i never really used it before.

 

Actually you do need NonAccuum allot for several types of animations especially walk, run, combat etc.. and also to pair animations both Needs o have the NonAccuum correclty set to avoid 180 degrees bug when the scripts turns the animation around.

[A.J.]

It is only for 3dsmax animators and the export scripts for Oblivion.  It often screws things up.  More than likely it is a flaw in the export script.

 

I was feeling that. I have random issues on Blender too, from time to time, even if with something different. But I doubt these scripts will ever be updated, after all this time, so... maybe's better finding workarounds

A method I use to avoid these kinds of issues is working via nifskope when it's possible. Like in this case, since OP needs to raise / lower a body, the bip01 nonaccum can be manually added on the block list, then it's just a matter of adding 2 points to create an interpolation (or copy / paste from an existing animation)

[gregathit]

I'm not saying don't set nonaccum.  I always set it in my animations. It is just set to zero and left there.

[A.J.]

If OP sets it to zero, the only way to control character's height would be modifying the scene root or modify both Pelvis and Spine. I guess if there's no other way to set NonAccum on 3ds then this would be the path to follow...