LL's take on Skyrim's campaign

[Swiftstep]

I doubt that many people would try to find a better life in a region of civil war and dragon attacks. Why not let someone else be the dragon born, and you play in Skyrim after all the events? This would be the fourth era, year one. You could trace back the steps of the dragonborn, kill a few monsters (since the dungeons respawn), kill a few dragons (since the dragonborn most likely didn't commit genocide all by its own) and have your fun in a more or less peaceful surrounding. That would be a very "sandbox" like approach.

 

Your intro-story is okay, though. Just wanted to give some feedback.

[Darth Omix]

Very interesting idea. Though, as others have said this would be a very daunting task as, even if it's not the best MQ in Elder Scrolls, its a hell of a lot of coding and whatnot to make a brand new one without horribly breaking everything.

 

I've actually been considering finally dabbling in modding myself instead of just lurking but this is far beyond anything I have in mind.

[Blackness blackness is...]

it should be a fully configurable story. so that it covers everyone's interests. 

[afa]

That's an even taller order than rewriting the whole story...

[JimmyCow]

I doubt that many people would try to find a better life in a region of civil war and dragon attacks. Why not let someone else be the dragon born, and you play in Skyrim after all the events? This would be the fourth era, year one. You could trace back the steps of the dragonborn, kill a few monsters (since the dungeons respawn), kill a few dragons (since the dragonborn most likely didn't commit genocide all by its own) and have your fun in a more or less peaceful surrounding. That would be a very "sandbox" like approach.

 

Your intro-story is okay, though. Just wanted to give some feedback.

Thanks.

Although I was thinking of switching up the main storyline.

 

What do you (and others) think about just making the dragons a chronic problem of Tamriel?

Imagine if dragons were just always sparse, and always around in Tamriel. They never had particularly evil goals or organization, and were almost like wildlife. If they see you, they'll kill you. Otherwise, no evil, devious plots are about.

You can go kill them anytime, and people are just as worried about dragons as they've always been.

 

I'm not thinking of anything particularly game-breaking, especially because for example, guards DO say "Darn dragons could swoop down at anytime".

So de-emphasizing the whole dragon issue is a bit safer than pretending they don't exist.

[Swiftstep]

As for the setting in 4E: would it really need that much of modding? I got the idea that you finish Skyrim main line with a generic hero, clean the quest log and reset most NPCs to their neutral stance towards you. I mean, there are few strong impacts on the world when finishing the main quest, are there? The only thing changing is that Alduin disappears, and some NPCs become friendly with the player. Changing that... don't know, but doesn't sound like that much effort. I guess.

As for the idea of "normal dragons" (like in other games): check this article. I doubt that dragons would live in the third era, and tolerate human beings to wander through their territory. They are sentient beings - they even do have a society. If they were hunted again, they would attack (and I don't believe they would only kill soldiers). They most likely consider themselves as superior beings, not to be disturbed in any way. If you stay close to the wiki, I doubt that you could add the dragons without a faction (kill one, and become their enemy). Remember, they disappeared thousands of years before the events in Skyrim. Their returning was shocking - and the reason was unknown to most people except Esbern (and few others).

 

Changing the dragons to something more common... hm... difficult, if you want to stay immersive. I guess, if the dragonborn allies with Paarthunax, after a couple of years people would become "accustomed" to the sight of a dragon - since it most likely is not aggressive. But that's after Alduins death. Also, to be honest: Skyrim would still be a great game without the dragonborn storyline. Look at Dawnguard - great story, only one dragon

[wr1]

You guys gave me the idea of the player character being the Dragonborn's estranged and deficient younger sibling.  Everywhere you go the main quest is already completed by your sibling who did it better than you.

[JimmyCow]

As for the setting in 4E: would it really need that much of modding? I got the idea that you finish Skyrim main line with a generic hero, clean the quest log and reset most NPCs to their neutral stance towards you. I mean, there are few strong impacts on the world when finishing the main quest, are there? The only thing changing is that Alduin disappears, and some NPCs become friendly with the player. Changing that... don't know, but doesn't sound like that much effort. I guess.

 

As for the idea of "normal dragons" (like in other games): check this article. I doubt that dragons would live in the third era, and tolerate human beings to wander through their territory. They are sentient beings - they even do have a society. If they were hunted again, they would attack (and I don't believe they would only kill soldiers). They most likely consider themselves as superior beings, not to be disturbed in any way. If you stay close to the wiki, I doubt that you could add the dragons without a faction (kill one, and become their enemy). Remember, they disappeared thousands of years before the events in Skyrim. Their returning was shocking - and the reason was unknown to most people except Esbern (and few others).

 

Changing the dragons to something more common... hm... difficult, if you want to stay immersive. I guess, if the dragonborn allies with Paarthunax, after a couple of years people would become "accustomed" to the sight of a dragon - since it most likely is not aggressive. But that's after Alduins death. Also, to be honest: Skyrim would still be a great game without the dragonborn storyline. Look at Dawnguard - great story, only one dragon

Huh.

 

Thanks for your info.

 

I actually am not really familiar with Skyrim lore, but what you brought up seems like a good point.

[Swiftstep]

Huh.

 

Thanks for your info.

 

I actually am not really familiar with Skyrim lore, but what you brought up seems like a good point.

 

Oh, I'm not knee-deep in the lore, as well. I just know TES since Morrowind, kept some things in mind and found the wiki while searching for console commandos. I hope you didn't get the impression that I wanted to outsmart you - it is always difficult to say, what one is trying to realize in a mod. If you go for an immersive approach, the wiki might hold all the info you need (in very good format).

 

Anyway, if you just want to create something else, take a look at Trykz "wildlings" mod - it's a very interesting approach on the game. And you may get some ideas what's possible and what's already in the game. If that's an alternative.

 

Personally, I would find it very nice for the game to be without a main-quest line. And without the civil-war. Would be cool to toggle that off, like with "alternate start". That would really be great.

 

[Stony gluch]

Great ideas here, I personally think this should be a mod.

[JimmyCow]

 

Huh.

 

Thanks for your info.

 

I actually am not really familiar with Skyrim lore, but what you brought up seems like a good point.

 

Oh, I'm not knee-deep in the lore, as well. I just know TES since Morrowind, kept some things in mind and found the wiki while searching for console commandos. I hope you didn't get the impression that I wanted to outsmart you - it is always difficult to say, what one is trying to realize in a mod. If you go for an immersive approach, the wiki might hold all the info you need (in very good format).

 

Anyway, if you just want to create something else, take a look at Trykz "wildlings" mod - it's a very interesting approach on the game. And you may get some ideas what's possible and what's already in the game. If that's an alternative.

 

Personally, I would find it very nice for the game to be without a main-quest line. And without the civil-war. Would be cool to toggle that off, like with "alternate start". That would really be great.

 

 

Sooo...

 

Should this be an adult, or non-adult mod?

[blueballbob]

I don't know, I must not be so invested in heroic fantasy.  The idea of some tenacious farmer getting in a lucky shot that kills the big bad guy is hilarious to me.  Kind of like how in that Robin Hood movie the cook grabs a crossbow and whacks the king totally by accident.

 

Jack Burton in Big Trouble in Little China. It's all in the reflexes. Who wouldn't want to be Jack?

[Swiftstep]

Sooo...Should this be an adult, or non-adult mod?

 

Usually mods only apply as "adult" when they contain nudity / sex and gore. If you only change the game in a matter of "playing it after the main quests", it would be non-adult. Because it only uses what's in the vanilla game.

 

If you really want to get it going, you'd have to find someone with the right skills - and a plan on what to do. People always will tell you "great idea!" and so forth - but that's all worthless until you find a modder. My guess: do as much as possible by your own - people will be more willing to help if you prove to be really willing to make your idea become true.

[ScorpiusX]

Hmm, interesting topic. I've quite liked playing the mighty Dragonborn the Hero of Skyrim who saves the world from Alduin's munchy attack. Yet I do believe there is plenty of scope for the story to have been quite different. I personally believe that the greatest of all heroes start out, not as nobodies, but as the people that nobodies look down on. By definition only a coward is capable of the greatest heroism. Let me elaborate:

 

Imagine if you will, a beautiful Princess (or a handsome Prince). Said royal personage is one day travelling through the countryside when they and their entourage is set upon by vile bandits, one by one, his/her defenders are laid low by the bandits. When all seems lost and it is certain that some foul fate awaits the Princess/Prince, they are rescued by the greatest Knight in the realm. Astride his/her magnificent white charger, the Knight rushes into the fray, and proceeds to destroy to the last the bandit host, their Armour of Faith and their Shield of Justice, turn turn every attack of the vile bandits aside. Their Blazing Sword of Truth cleaves even the strongest armour of the bandits and our great hero, the mightiest Knight alive, is victorious, without a scratch or hair out of place, not even a bead of sweat upon their brow. Turning to the Princess/Prince to recieve the fulsome praise that they are due for this valiant rescue, they are suprised to find the Princess/Prince knelt, weeping, over the bleeding form of a young peasant boy/girl. Turning to look at the Knight the Princess/Prince tells of how moments before the Knight arrived, just after their last retainer had perished, the young peasant had rushed to defend them, armed only with a branch ripped from a tree and no apparent skill in using the violent arts. Though the young peasant fell in but mere moments, their actions had delayed the bandits long enough for the Knight to arrive and effect a rescue.

When the dying youth is asked their name they reply "I am Bob/Bobbi the Coward, Yellow Bob/Bobbi, Cry Baby Bob/Bobbi, thats what folks round here call me, if they even take the time to notice me."

"No more will those foul names be yours young one, for today Bob/Bobbi the Coward dies", says the Knight as they press a potion bottle to the youths lips. "From this day forth you will be my squire, and the next time you decide to act the hero, you will have the skills to back up that courage you displayed today."

 

And this is where the PC would takeover the story, as the young squire who chooses a new name and we establish what they look like (i.e. character creation). The Knight was never in any danger, the outcome was always certain, the hero would save the day and get their just reward. Its just that the one who was the true hero was the young peasant, ridiculed by all who knew them as a coward, who when the opportunity to save a Princess/Prince arose, stepped up armed with a crude club and absolutely no chance of succeding. And even though they were cut down, even though they failed to save the Princess/Prince, ultimately it was the courage of a coward that allowed the knight to save the day.

 

But then how will the story proceed? Will the squire be the great Dragonborn, or be the wisecracking, streetwise sidekick of the great Dragonborn, or maybe they'll leave the service of the Knight and forge their own legend as a Companion, Thief, Assassin etc. Or will their name be a cautionary tale to small children "Do as your told or Lord Sanguine will take you as his plaything, just like he did to the Yellow Squire"? To me one of the best things about TES games is that you can say screw the main story I'm making my own, the other great thing is that there is a wealth of modders who are able to say screw the story (and in the case of modders here at LL, they enable you to screw everything else too), and make their own and share it with us, something for which I am extremely gratefull.

[Swiftstep]

Beautifully written. If one only looks for applying this story to the game, one might ask: what's the difference to the normal start as prisoner with a death sentence? You come from nothing (in your case: from less), and you eventually become the hero, though nobody believes in you. Meaning: in general, your idea could be integrated into "alternate start" as a tale (or maybe even as a plot to follow with some extra goodies). But it would not change the main-quest very much.

As said, that's only the pragmatic point of view. It would be a very galant approach on an intro. No doubt. But what's the ultimate goal of this idea? My idea was a game without the main-quest (or parts of it). It could, of course, be combined with your idea. And it would fit very well - the princess in distress, rescued by the dragonborn. And the lowly peasant is the new hero. So to say.

 

If I misread your story, or misunderstood your intent, I would very much like to see your corrections.

[ScorpiusX]

You know sometimes I amaze even myself, I say this because last night I was a) very tired, very drunk and c) stoned out of my tree, and I still managed to write that. Whats worse is, I don't even remember getting home last night, never mind writing it :} I came onto the forums spotted this thread, read through it and was gobbsmacked to find what I had written.

 

Now I have to try and reinterpret it for myself

 

Given how with LAL you can totally ignore going to Helgen and starting the main quest, how feasible would it be for modders to rewrite the main story? Taking what I wrote as an introduction to your character and the "Knight" (I think in this case the knight is just my tired, drunken, stoned way of saying the git who'll get all the credit for your hard work). Now if you want to play the normal main quest then you can toddle off to Helgen and away you go. However, the main story could (if feasible), be rewritten so that the "Knight" and their squire are called to Dragonsreach in response to the troubles with the Dragon attack on Helgen. From an initial conversation with the Jarl they then proceed to Riverwood (with a small detatchment of Whiterun guards, who are to defend Riverwood), before going to Bleakfalls Barrow to retrieve the Dragonstone. Whilst in Riverwood the squire hears a rumour that the owner of the Riverwood trader has been robbed of a golden Dragon's Claw (since he keeps it on the counter everyone in Riverwood knows of it and notices when its gone). Well so far this just gets you on the track for the main story right? Or does it? I'm pretty confident that it could be written so that its Focus is now on the "Knight" being the Dragonborn and the PC being his loyal companion, who's wits and intelligence (and even their great ability in the field of Bedroom Gymnastics) solves the puzzles and advances the story, this could be in either a comedic fashion or a serious one or even, given what site we're currently on, a perverted one. The PC's story could even call for them to split away from the Dragonborn for a time to perform other tasks, i.e retrieving some musty old tome whilst the Dragonborn goes and meets the Greybeards, then they meet up again (possibly even being attacked by a pair of strange cultists).

 

This could lead to a Main Story that whilst following the plot of the original, has a very different flavour to it. If the "Knight" character is made as a companion to the PC (in the same manner as Serana at the begining to Dawnguard, i.e. joins the PC as a companion then leaves the party only to rejoin later, in the case of the "Knight" leaving/joining multiple times if need be), could the "Knight" be given shouts and use them? Could the resources from the original Main Story could also be recycled to a degree (I'm thinking here of quest locations, conversations or pieces there of, items, NPC's, events etc)?. Its possible for the "Knight" to have their own followers, such as a certain Huskarl from a greatful Jarl Balgruf (look at companion mods such as Vilja). Guardsmen from the various holds could say to the PC "You couldn't possibly be the Dragonborn of Legend, could you?", at which point the "Knight" gets in a reply such as "No that would be me!", or the PC gets to give some witty remark about how the Dragonborn is some big lug of a hero, or something along those lines.

 

I am under no delusion that this would be an easy thing to accomplish, in fact I think it would require a great deal of effort and time on the part of a group of modders. I do think it would be a worthwhile project that could give a new leash of life to the main story for those of us who've completed it over and over and over.

 

Oh dear, another wall of text and I can't even blame the booze this time.

[JimmyCow]

 

Sooo...Should this be an adult, or non-adult mod?

 

Usually mods only apply as "adult" when they contain nudity / sex and gore. If you only change the game in a matter of "playing it after the main quests", it would be non-adult. Because it only uses what's in the vanilla game.

 

If you really want to get it going, you'd have to find someone with the right skills - and a plan on what to do. People always will tell you "great idea!" and so forth - but that's all worthless until you find a modder. My guess: do as much as possible by your own - people will be more willing to help if you prove to be really willing to make your idea become true.

 

Thanks everyone for their feedback so far...

 

At the moment I'll plan on writing a non-adult storyline and see if I can write enough of it to attract some attention.

 

[Swiftstep]

I am under no delusion that this would be an easy thing to accomplish, in fact I think it would require a great deal of effort and time on the part of a group of modders. I do think it would be a worthwhile project that could give a new leash of life to the main story for those of us who've completed it over and over and over.

 

It indeed sounds like a total rework of the entire story line, with lots of changes to the original game. There are thousands of mods out there, but not a single one (I know of) that does larger changes to quest lines; some add smaller quests before you get the big ones. I'm guessing that it would lower the stability of the game (possible draw-back to the "rework" idea) since the whole game is very buggy (considering you don't use the unofficial patches).

 

And to be completely honest: would there be enough people who want a rework of the main quest? Personally, I finished the vanilla game like 3 times, Dawnguard 2 times and Dragonborn only once. Yet Steam says I played it for nearly 1.000 hours. And I don't feel like I missed something. Yes, yes, my point of view. But that's the reason why I was supporting a more "Sandbox" feeling of the game. Just start a new charakter and forget the quest lines - get strong they way you want to play.

 

Hm, maybe another idea on the realization of your approach: since you already have a layout for your story, have you ever considered of creating a photo-story? Meaning: if people can see and "feel" your setting, you might have higher chances of finding what you seek.