Dayelyte's Unnatural Animations

[nutluck]

Here is a perfect example of what I would like to do, vs what the mesh will allow me to get away with :|

 

The initial idea was to have male actor holding female actors cheek.  As you can see, the shoulder mesh decided it wasn't going to play

along and I'm not about to put that in game. lol

 

 

As a result, what I wanted to do had to get slightly modified to prevent the distortion.  These meshes were never really designed for what

we're pushing them to do

 

distortion.jpg

 

The modified version is rendering as I type this.  Hope to have a preview ready within an hour or so.

 

That would have been cool but both hands on her hips works too.

[Cyndi]

What male body are you animating with, the nude suit one?

I haven't really looked at the topo and such on all the male bodies kicking around, but maybe there's something more suited to animating.

I doubt there's anything like a male equivalent to a DG or w/e but you never know.

 

I think the standard nudesuit is 4duik's (sp?)

Then there's Favoured Soul

uhm....  sundracon's meshes..  (I think 4duiks is based on that one)

I have no idea if SOS has an entire body or if it's just a penis thing, but it's apparently really popular.

 

 

[nutluck]

What male body are you animating with, the nude suit one?

I haven't really looked at the topo and such on all the male bodies kicking around, but maybe there's something more suited to animating.

I doubt there's anything like a male equivalent to a DG or w/e but you never know.

 

I think the standard nudesuit is 4duik's (sp?)

Then there's Favoured Soul

uhm....  sundracon's meshes..  (I think 4duiks is based on that one)

I have no idea if SOS has an entire body or if it's just a penis thing, but it's apparently really popular.

 

SoS is the full body and I believe it is based on. better males? I think I forget now off hand.

 

Though with the recent Sexlab SoS has become the default male body for alignment purposes.

[Night~Sky]

SOS is a full body, yes. And it's the standard used by Sexlab for alignment, as nutluck mentioned. It's not strictly the same as the FS meshes though, it's been modified/improved a few times over the course of SOS's refinement. However I believe the standard SOS meshes are going to be replaced with base variations produced from SAM when it's done, so who knows what will happen at that point.

 

That shoulder deformation puzzles me, though. I have almost every animation used by male actors replaced with custom animations, and I've never seen the shoulder do that, even in animations that contort the shoulder far more than simply raising the arm forward and turning the hand.

 

Edit: Actually, as I post this, it occurs to me I do have a sex animation custom-added to my sexlab setup which causes an oddity in the male shoulders, now that I think of it. The male shoulders become almost two and a half feet wide during certain stages of the animation. Maybe it's a skeleton thing?

[Dayelyte]

I would have to double check to be sure but I believe it's the SoS mesh. It comes without male equipment so I had to import it. I'm using a modified vanilla skeleton ( added the SoS bones to the appropriate spot so the male package works for alignment ). Unless the XP-32 bone structure is offset from the vanilla one, Bone X is Bone X and should produce the same mesh movements as long as the weights are the same.

 

I hate the xp32 skeleton to animate with unless I have to. It looks like a train wreck when it's imported to Max. Multiple copies of the same bones, some aren't linked properly, etc.

[Night~Sky]

Ironically, I'm pretty sure XP32 does actually use adjusted bone weights in some areas. Still, it shouldn't matter 'that' much outside those specific areas, and the shoulder isn't one of them, so I don't know.

[Cyndi]

I would have to double check to be sure but I believe it's the SoS mesh. It comes without male equipment so I had to import it. I'm using a modified vanilla skeleton ( added the SoS bones to the appropriate spot so the male package works for alignment ). Unless the XP-32 bone structure is offset from the vanilla one, Bone X is Bone X and should produce the same mesh movements as long as the weights are the same.

 

I hate the xp32 skeleton to animate with unless I have to. It looks like a train wreck when it's imported to Max. Multiple copies of the same bones, some aren't linked properly, etc.

 

I really dislike that thing.  I have a cut up version I use for making clothes in max. Trying to load it in Nifskope even is hellish for lag. If I knew how to make a proper .hkx rigmap for hdt-pe I would be back using my own custom skeleton in a heartbeat.

 

Ironically, I'm pretty sure XP32 does actually use adjusted bone weights in some areas. Still, it shouldn't matter 'that' much outside those specific areas, and the shoulder isn't one of them, so I don't know.

 

That's just the weights on a 2.4+ unpb bodies (2.2 and MTM bodies are Mr.TroubleMaker handled now). The skeleton itself doesn't have weights. Xp hasn't weighted any male bodies afaik either.

[4love10]

Making a guess here, but thinking it's probably a mod conflict with my primary system as I am able to get the animation working on the test system.

 

Swear, if it isn't one thing, it's a dozen. :|

 

Also, found I can take output from FRAPS, wash it through VLC ala Linux then import it to Premier Pro that way.  Goofy workflow, but works I guess. 

 

atronach_test.mov

very nice good job

[nutluck]

This is just a honest question of curiosity, if xp32 has some serious issues for modders why is it so popular and the default recommended skeleton for sexlab?

[Cyndi]

Popularity, and it's bonehead proof for compatibility.

You can run almost anything with it.

 

oh oh, and Groovetama (sp?)  made a shnazzy hdt rig-map for it.

 

[Ryu]

OP, I'm very positively impressed by your focus on animation details. All of the animations are extremely well done!

Any chance of making slightly less animal-ish animations, for instance involving tentacles or humans?

[nutluck]

Popularity, and it's bonehead proof for compatibility.

You can run almost anything with it.

 

oh oh, and Groovetama (sp?)  made a shnazzy hdt rig-map for it.

 

Then maybe some modder should make a better version.

[Dayelyte]

This is just a honest question of curiosity, if xp32 has some serious issues for modders why is it so popular and the default recommended skeleton for sexlab?

For modders, it's pretty much transparent. For animators, it's a pita.

 

Easier answer. The XP-32 skeleton supports BBP / TBBP as the bones to control them are there

 

And, as we are all fully aware of: Teh Boobies must move lest the masses revolt lol

 

 

It shouldn't be that difficult to generate a bone map as it's done within the Havok Exporter. Just uses different options to generate it I think. Probably the way I would approach it would simply take a vanilla skeleton, add in the breast, butt and SoS bones and build the rig from that. Should be compatible with the majority of player use meshes out there unless they have oddball weight maps. ( such as the belly for the pregnancy mods, though could probably add that in as well ) Much cleaner for standard use but wouldn't support all the goodies XP-32 has built into it. ( wings, hair, etc )

[nutluck]

 

This is just a honest question of curiosity, if xp32 has some serious issues for modders why is it so popular and the default recommended skeleton for sexlab?

For modders, it's pretty much transparent. For animators, it's a pita.

 

Easier answer. The XP-32 skeleton supports BBP / TBBP as the bones to control them are there

 

And, as we are all fully aware of: Teh Boobies must move lest the masses revolt lol

 

 

It shouldn't be that difficult to generate a bone map as it's done within the Havok Exporter. Just uses different options to generate it I think. Probably the way I would approach it would simply take a vanilla skeleton, add in the breast, butt and SoS bones and build the rig from that. Should be compatible with the majority of player use meshes out there unless they have oddball weight maps. ( such as the belly for the pregnancy mods, though could probably add that in as well ) Much cleaner for standard use but wouldn't support all the goodies XP-32 has built into it. ( wings, hair, etc )

 

 

yeah I meant animators not modders I tend to call everyone modders.

 

Yes I know the power of boobs are over powering for most.

 

As i said was mostly curious why if it is was a issue a animators.

 

[Dayelyte]

OP, I'm very positively impressed by your focus on animation details. All of the animations are extremely well done!

Any chance of making slightly less animal-ish animations, for instance involving tentacles or humans?

Well, tbh, another animator is currently doing human / human interactions ( two actually: names escape me atm ) so I figured I would work in an area that really hadn't been addressed yet. That being male actor > critter.

 

PanicForever is working a similar path but reversing the genders. Male critter > female actor.

 

I've looked into doing the tentacles from the Netch, but the topology of the tentacles coupled with a very low bone count controlling them would not make for a quality animation in my opinion. The setup as it exists now just wouldn't support the fine level of control needed to pull it off unfortunately.

 

I forget which thread it is, but I posted a screenshot to give folks a visual idea of why the Netch wouldn't make a good candidate for animating with the idea of putting it into SexLab.

[Dayelyte]

 

 

 

This is just a honest question of curiosity, if xp32 has some serious issues for modders why is it so popular and the default recommended skeleton for sexlab?

For modders, it's pretty much transparent. For animators, it's a pita.

 

Easier answer. The XP-32 skeleton supports BBP / TBBP as the bones to control them are there

 

And, as we are all fully aware of: Teh Boobies must move lest the masses revolt lol

 

 

It shouldn't be that difficult to generate a bone map as it's done within the Havok Exporter. Just uses different options to generate it I think. Probably the way I would approach it would simply take a vanilla skeleton, add in the breast, butt and SoS bones and build the rig from that. Should be compatible with the majority of player use meshes out there unless they have oddball weight maps. ( such as the belly for the pregnancy mods, though could probably add that in as well ) Much cleaner for standard use but wouldn't support all the goodies XP-32 has built into it. ( wings, hair, etc )

yeah I meant animators not modders I tend to call everyone modders.

 

Yes I know the power of boobs are over powering for most.

 

As i said was mostly curious why if it is was a issue a animators.

Hehe. At this point, the XP-32 is pretty much the standard everyone uses so it is what it is I guess. When I animate with it I will clean it up so I can see what I'm doing by hiding all non-essential bones and linking the missing ones together.

 

Just for giggles, I may play with building a custom skeleton and exporting a havok file for it just to see. Has to be done in 2010 Max though due to the version of the Havok Exporter needed. :/

[Dayelyte]

Heh.  For those who have never seen the XP-32 skeleton in all its glory, here it is:

 

 

 

 

The right-most skeleton is the XP-32 skeleton as Max sees it when it is first imported.  The one on the left is what it looks like after I'm done cleaning it up and hiding everything I don't need as well as fixing broken links. ( note the left leg and the multi copies of the same bones throughout the skeleton )

 

It also comes in a beast flavor in that it adds a tail to the mix as well.

 

 

[nutluck]

Heh.  For those who have never seen the XP-32 skeleton in all its glory, here it is:

 

xp32.jpg

 

 

 

The right-most skeleton is the XP-32 skeleton as Max sees it when it is first imported.  The one on the left is what it looks like after I'm done cleaning it up and hiding everything I don't need as well as fixing broken links. ( note the left leg and the multi copies of the same bones throughout the skeleton )

 

It also comes in a beast flavor in that it adds a tail to the mix as well.

 

It looks like a cactus wearing a dress with wings.

[Cyndi]

**snip**

It looks like a cactus wearing a dress with wings.

 

 

I lol'ed, Xpms-ME looks scarier though, there's like 50 nodes shooting off from the belly for some dismemberment mod.

 

 

**snip**

It shouldn't be that difficult to generate a bone map as it's done within the Havok Exporter. Just uses different options to generate it I think. Probably the way I would approach it would simply take a vanilla skeleton, add in the breast, butt and SoS bones and build the rig from that. Should be compatible with the majority of player use meshes out there unless they have oddball weight maps. ( such as the belly for the pregnancy mods, though could probably add that in as well ) Much cleaner for standard use but wouldn't support all the goodies XP-32 has built into it. ( wings, hair, etc )

 

 

Is that with havok content tools?

I would really really really like to know how to do it, so I can get my skeleton working properly with HDT-PE.  Basically rig-map without it knowing where the Breast/butt nodes are for the particular skeleton, so hdt keeps full control of those nodes.

 

Edit: Afaik...  nothing uses those wings or hair bones. The wings are just cloned VL and gargoyle bones anyway.

[streetmaniac]

Is the atronach on top going to be finished or is it just delayed or did you move over to the other position where the human is holding the atronach? (It's neat btw)

 

Yes I know its being discussed in the last few pages but its all fancy animating / modeling / mesh talk that simpletons like me wouldnt understand

 

also, not rushing you or anything, I just wanna know how things are looking up and what's it in your plan

[Dayelyte]

Dunno if I'll do a full four scene setup on it. Was kicking around the idea of setting the scenes to switch between positions.

 

Eg: Scene 1 is the grind, two is on top reversed, three standing hold, etc etc.

[Dayelyte]

Is that with havok content tools?

I would really really really like to know how to do it, so I can get my skeleton working properly with HDT-PE. Basically rig-map without it knowing where the Breast/butt nodes are for the particular skeleton, so hdt keeps full control of those nodes.

 

Edit: Afaik... nothing uses those wings or hair bones. The wings are just cloned VL and gargoyle bones anyway.

I got a good laugh from the dress wearing cactus too lol

 

But yeah, the bone map / rig is generated from the Havok Exporter. There is another option to do so, I've just never experimented with it.

 

I don't have it loaded on my 2012 copy of Max because it doesn't play nice with Skyrim I think. There is a specific version that does and I do have it on my test machine at home.

 

*edit* Said specific version is 2010-2-0 compatible with Max up to version 2011.

 

The Havok exporter is odd in that the Skyrim skeletons have normal bones ( they call them nodes ) and then they can also have floating nodes which is an oddity to me.

 

Now that I think about it, the Havok exporter will pretty much let you export the whole enchilada, or just the specific data that you want. This is done via the " Prune Filter " if I'm not mistaken. ( assuming you want the xml based skeleton.hkx type file ) The options look like this:

 

 

A Long You-Tube video on it:

[Cyndi]

...  I recognize that voice,  that's Canderes (sp?) I think.

I bet that is posted somewhere here on LL in a tutorial section somewhere.

Good find thank you =P

[Night~Sky]

For what it's worth, XP32 is the most popular skeleton because it -supports- practically everything. There are other skeletons that support the extra bones used by character creation extenders, there are other skeletons which have the bones for alternate weapon/shield locations and the like, the are other skeletons which have the extra bone for pregnancy scaling, etc etc etc, and there are few skeletons which feature combinations of such features at once. But XP32 (particularly XP32-extended) supports -everything- at the same time, making it essentially a "universal skeleton".

 

The fact that it's a pita for animating is what you'd call a trade-off, albeit a big one. The wing and hair bones are there to support mods which never quite got off the ground and have simply been left on the rig in case someone does decide to use them in future. I believe the creator of the Wrath of Nature mod series is aiming to use the wing bones for the champion of kyne transformation (essentially an anthro dragon) at some point, for example, but is privately looking for an animator for the implementation.

 

If you think XP32 is bad though you should see some of the other "experimental" skeletons that have popped up here and there. In the russian Skyrim mod community someone made a completely new skeleton rig for dragons to convert them to normal character style animation rather than script-driven movement, and it was incomprehensible to look at (it took two weeks to make a crude dummy walk-cycle with it). I've also seen a "revised" experimental skeleton for Werewolves that had equipment bones added to it which was a bit on the "wtf am I looking at?" side. No idea what happened to that one though.

[streetmaniac]

hows it going dayelyte?